We're getting close to placing our order for our first 5th wheel. We've had a class c motorhome with a gas generator and it seemed to be economical to run but we only did a couple of weeks at a time and usually hooked to land power.  Our new plan is to be full timers (and some boondocking)LP and we have heard a few negatives on using a LP generator in the 5th wheel. Some say unless you hooked up to power, you'll burn through your LP in no time. Is a gas generator in the tow vehicle really that much more economical.....gas vs LP/hour?   Would really like to hear real life experience or if there is some other combination?  Thanks

Linda/Patrick

RN on the road wrote:

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We're getting close to placing our order for our first 5th wheel. We've had a class c motorhome with a gas generator and it seemed to be economical to run but we only did a couple of weeks at a time and usually hooked to land power.  Our new plan is to be full timers (and some boondocking)LP and we have heard a few negatives on using a LP generator in the 5th wheel. Some say unless you hooked up to power, you'll burn through your LP in no time. Is a gas generator in the tow vehicle really that much more economical.....gas vs LP/hour?   Would really like to hear real life experience or if there is some other combination?  Thanks

Linda/Patrick

 

As Mike said, in so many words, “it depends” and this “depends” comment is based on a 5^th wheel, not a motorhome.  Here is our real world perspective and many years of experience you asked for:

The “big” installed LP generator (like a 5,500 watt Onan / Cummins) has several advantages as pertains to you not having to carry another source of fuel – gas.  LP generators also don’t have any issues with not being used and the fuel going bad – or stale.  It can sit for a long time and will start up right away without the fuel system “gumming up” as it can with gas. (Yes, you can add a stabilizing additive to the fuel – but you have to do that and can still have an issue.  YMMV)  LP installed generators can run almost anything in the coach including both AC units which we have found important in several situations in addition to boondocking applications.  It gets hot, even in Alaska.  :)

LP generators – relatively speaking – use more fuel because they are much bigger.  More power = more fuel.  They burn more than an equal size gas unit but not that much more in our experience.

We’ve used the Onan LP at all altitudes up to 8,000+ feet without having to make any carburetor adjustments due to altitude.  It just works and starts every time.  In our experience gas will not be as forgiving.

The smaller generators – gas – are certainly less expensive and weigh less.  But in most cases they obviously don’t have the same capacity as the larger installed units and can’t be started from inside the coach. (Especially nice feature in the morning)  We boondock and also have enough solar / battery capacity to allow us the best of both worlds along with the big LP.  Lots of power and charging when we need / want it, battery / solar for some of the time and full AC / microwave, etc. capability especially when on the road, the coach is hot and we want to cool it down, cook and enjoy the time before the weather cools off and we go over to batteries for the late evening.  Then a quick charge of the batteries in the morning from the genny, along with making breakfast, and we’re good for the next day.

I recommend the LP generator IF you want a full(er) power unit to meet the criteria we wanted above.  If not, a little “putter” may do the job for you.  “It depends”   Bill

 

Linda and Patrick:

One more brief real world perspective FWIW:  Having the large generator also enabled us to boondock, etc. as described in my previous post quite well with batteries only and no solar.  We added the solar and that is a big deal as to some savings on fuel.  However, you will never repay the cost of solar – solar just makes it a lot more convenient and flexible. 

My point is, with the larger LP generator and a somewhat larger battery bank we did quite well even without solar for a number of years including boondocking into Alaska, etc.   Bill

 

RN on the road wrote:

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Really appreciate all the info. As I said earlier, we plan on doing both boondocking and resort sites. I guess the mix will depend on where we're going. We do plan on having solar panels as well, so I would appreciate any tips in that area as well. Thanks again for the help. We,re costing out the unit now and hope to order in the next 45-60 days. Patrick/Linda

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Linda:

Here is a excellent overview on solar from Jack Mayer:

http://www.jackdanmayer.com/Files/Presentation%20HDT%20RV%20Electrical%2010_17_2011.pdf

And the link to his Website treatise on solar:

 http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_electrical_and_solar.htm

Jack’s write up is excellent and he can provide a lot of expert advice.  I completely rebuilt my 12volt system and installed 400 watts of solar as well.  Jack’s is a bit larger - so was his budget. {Grin}  So along with others there is a lot of real world experience and perspective available here.

PM with questions or whatever works for you.  We’re glad to help.

Bill

The Honda EU3000IS can be paralleled from what I've been told.  I'm not so sure about the 3000 Handi, but the full version Honda can.  They would just have to order the parallel kit since very few dealers ever have the case where someone wants to buy two Hondas and the kit.

With two EU3000IS Hondas paralleled, you'd have about 46 amps, probably enough to run both air conditioners, if needed.

Now, with all that said, I will check further to see if newer models of the 3000 have changed.

Edit:  Just checked on Honda's website on the page for the EU3000IS.  Under the image of the generator at this page (see link below), it states: "The EU3000iS is a favorite for RV power.  Connect two EU3000iS in parallel for additional power."

Honda EU3000IS page

Terry

-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 3rd of May 2013 06:55:56 AM

Terry -

 

Thanks for that link...good information.  Every dealer we've talked to said it couldn't be done.... Should have known better than to listen to salesmen.

Sounds like a great set up but I'm not sure we could physically handle the weight when pulling these in and out of the back of the truck.  still something to consider as an option.

 

Thanks

Marilyn

Going on the socket install, I'm planing on install the socket for the genny somewhere on the pinbox. We have the genny prep also so I just need to run a cable from the pin to the box in the basement.

Lots of good info in this thread. We're also in the decision making stage on this one as well. Currently we have the Yamaha 3000 which is enough to run one of our AC units when necessary. Since we'll both continue to work as we go on the road, we're thinking most of the time we'll be camped where we have electrical power except when we might stop a night enroute or take advantage of the free overnight parking some of the art shows offer for the duration of the show. And of course when we're on vacation but for the vacation times we really don't care whether we have electrical power or not.

Our original plan was to put the Yamaha in the truck and see how often we were using it before deciding to have an ONAN installed. Now that we have our truck home and we've measured, the generator is about 3 inches higher than the sides of the truck bed. We want to be able to buy a roll and lock Tonneau cover so when we're not towing and need the truck to load in and out of art shows we have our show stuff secured in the bed of the truck.

So now we're thinking we could load the generator in the basement of our DRV, in the slide out tray so that when we need to run it we could pull it out on the tray. Has anyone tried this? Any problems encountered?

Terry and Jo wrote:

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Marilyn,

If I remember right, the EU3000IS weighs about 150 lbs without fuel.  However, although I've not tried it yat as we aren't traveling, I think ours will be able to sit in the back of the pickup bed and be below the level of the sides of the bed.  Even if we buy a second one and parallel ours, it should still leave room for the pin box to go between them when hooking up.  Plus, if they are in the pickup bed, they can be secured to the "tie-down" loops in the bed to help prevent theft.

I am also planning on adding a socket to the front of the fifth wheel so that I don't have to run an electric cord all the way back to the rear of the coach.  In our case, we had "generator prep" put on our coach when we ordered it, so the wiring is already there from the rear to the front.  Another DRV Suites owner had the factory install their socket in the front and under the nose.  (See picture below to see the socket placed above and to the left of the front compartment door.)

I've been told that I can have a 4-conductor socket installed (50 amp) so that with the two Hondas paralleled, there would be the 46 amps going to the rig.

Now, considering the cost of buying two Hondas, perhaps one needs to consider one of the Onan generators.  I've not priced all this yet, but the Onan may only be about $1000 or so more than buying two Hondas and a parallel kit.  In our case, we already have one, so I only need one more and the kit.

Terry

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 Why not just get one Honda Eu6500is?  

Roy,

Many of us don't really want the extra size "per unit" of the EU6500IS compared to the size of the EU3000IS units.

The EU6500IS weighs in at 260 lbs (dry weight) and measures 33.5" x 26.4" x 27.5" (L x W x H).

The EU3000IS weighs in at 134 lbs (dry weight) and measures 25.8" x 18.9" x 22.4" (L x W x H).

That makes the 3000 about 5 inches shorter, thus making it more likely to be able to have clearance for the nose of the fifth wheel.  At 260 lbs, I don't know of very many couples that could lift the 6500 in and out of the bed of the truck.

It wasn't easy, but I have managed to lift the EU3000IS into our F250 by myself, although I had to "work it in" by rocking the legs up the tailgate that was fully lowered.  Now, having said that, I'm not sure I could do that with our current F450.  But, even at our "advanced age," I think the wife and I could lift the 3000 into the pickup.

Terry

Marilyn,

Never trust salesmen.

From Honda's website:

"AC Output 120V 3000W max.(25A) 2800W rated (23.3A)"

While they list the max at 3000 watts with 25 amps, the Honda will likely run mostly at the 2800 watts with the 23.3 amps most of the time.  If you noticed the description on the Honda page, it stated that it would run an air conditioner that was 13,500 btu.  When we lost electric some time back, we had no issues with running everything in our coach, but it was cool enough that we weren't running the air conditioners.

We are fortunate that our Mobile Suites has the Power Management System.  That was an optional system that monitors the electrical usage and if the power demand gets too high, it cuts off some devices until the power level goes back down again.

I'm still pretty certain that two of the Hondas will work for us.  I will still be cheaper than buying an Onan.  When we were looking, even though higher elevations will cause the engine to run rich on fuel and foul the plugs, for the difference in prices, I can buy a LOT of spark plugs.

Terry

EggerMar wrote:

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Is it possible to store AND run these generators in the space where a built in generator would go rather than lift them in and out at each location we boondock at? Of course we would leave the door open when running them

Marilyn

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I am not saying you cannot do this. However I point out you could have a cooling and / or an exhaust issues.  Onan’s, and like kind generators, are designed to run in closed environments as pertains to not only cooling but proper exhaust handling.  You can run into what is known as “thermal runaway” which is a fancy term for the unit sucking in its’ own heat as opposed to cooling air.  Again, not saying this won’t work, but I am saying some units are designed to work properly enclosed and some are intended to be in the open.

Also at higher altitudes you will not be able to get the same output current ratings as at sea level.  This may or may not matter.  But when the genny cannot get enough air it can slow down, causing low voltage and potential damage to electrical equipment.  It depends.  YMMV.