Unfortunately, these types of incidents happen. Not often and one may not think about them much - UNTIL it happens to you. I can say that because a similar incident happened to me. Fortunately I was able to keep the pitbull away from my dog with pepper spray and using other means. This is why I almost always carry pepperspray. Believe me - it works quite well if you have the right kind. I also suggest a striking weapon. I won't go into firearms because this is not a good reason for a firearm and the decision to carry one should be based on more than this scenario. And the responsibility is far, far greater.

I hope you heal fast. Your dog will likely do better than you will.....I do hope the authorities are involved in this.

We have had the 2 pit bulls come after us so we are as prepared as we can be. In our case, the dogs did not bite me and were just dog aggressive, luckily young inexperienced bitters. There is no time to think when you see a dog(s) charging you. I am starting to think that this is happening much more often than people believe. I, too, am so sorry that this happened. After the dogs came after mine, I was afraid to go outside and afraid to walk them so we upped our protection. Sadly, someone has moved in a couple of blocks away with two pit bulls they tie in the front yard that show aggression. I believe we may have dog fighting in the area. A block away is a St. Bernard that is aggressive with owners that don't have a clue and can't even restrain it on the leash. There were 22 dog bites here in May and that is the standard per the newspaper police reports and that is lot for a town with 25,000 people. I don't have the answer but all of these irresponsible people make it much harder for the majority who are responsible dog owners. I hope you and yours are able to heal both mentally and physically from this horrible mishap.

So sorry to hear about this, I could barely finish reading the details....Dogs are good, owners are irresponsible *************, these people who handle their pets like this should be locked up for animal abuse and be charged criminally for the damage they cause......The pets are helpless victims of stupid owners....Sorry Again....

That story is so sad. Sorry to hear of your troubles. Glad everyone is on the mend. You are indeed fortunate as it could have been far worse. One must always consider personal protection of some type when out and about. I am always armed, (mainly for 2 legged animals) but this is not the right choice for many folk. Pepper spray is a better solution to this type of problem and is why I carry UDAP bear spray when in bear country (also a larger firearm, just in case.)

Perhaps a stun cane might be useful when walking a dog as a non lethal deterrent. www.youtube.com/watch It's a flashlight too.

Here's what DW and I always take with us when walking - mainly for stability but they could be used as a weapon if needed. Remember a stick in the hand is better than a shotgun locked up at home.

Chip

-- Edited by Sushidog on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 03:09:50 PM

This brought a knot to my stomach while reading it. It must have been a terrifying ordeal.

Unfortunately I was on the other end of this type of attack. We had two Keeshonds which normally won't attack other dogs but are more of "Hey I want to go over and say hi to that other dog". They pull on the leash straining to get over to the dog. We always kept our dogs on leash.

One day while straining to get to a dog, the leash broke and our oldest dog headed straight for a champion Akita. The RV Park was near a location where a regional dog show was being held so it was full of show dogs. Luckily the show dogs owner was able to kick at my dog, and she returned to me.

Moral of this Story: be sure to examine your pet leashes every so often. Both leashes had a part which was weakened by rust during the several years we used them. The second one was just about ready to let loose.

-- Edited by The Bear II on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 04:14:09 PM

Brian: all I will say is; Sorry this happended as I don't want to start any contrversey!

I am so sorry this happened to you! How scary!

I realize a lot of these type stories are about pitbulls, but we have had it happen with other breeds, smaller dogs actually. Bill was walking Cocoa just last week and a chihuahua came running out of a Class A, nipping and biting at her. She is much bigger at about 48lbs (she is a black lab/Austrailian Cattle Dog mix), but is an old girl (almost 14 years old) and just wanted to get away. Bill had to pick her up to prevent her from being bitten. After a couple of minutes the owner came running out apologizing. Just today a small collie came running up while I walked her, the owner was right there and I said to him "She doesn't play well with others" while his dog circled around her. I tried to push it away with my foot and he came over angry saying "don't kick my dog". I said "I didn't kick your dog I was pushing it away, my dog is old and doesn't play well with others" He says that his dog is fine with other dogs and I didn't need to kick it. I DID NOT KICK the guys dog! I told him that MY dog, the one ON ITS LEASH doesn't play well with others and that he needs to control HIS dog. I just kept walking b/c he was an idiot and there was no reasoning with him. If I see it without a leash again I will report him to the CG owners. The dog seemed friendly enough, but my dog doesn't like unknown dogs invading her space. I was concerned my dog would snap at his dog b/c she is old and doesn't tolerate unknown dogs like she did in her younger years.

I do understand about the primal thing also, but as someone already said, you aren't bad, there is nothing wrong with you, you were just protecting your own.

Please consider getting yourself help for this if you continue to struggle.

Hope everyone continues to recover with no additional issues.

Jack Mayer wrote:

---

Unfortunately, these types of incidents happen. Not often and one may not think about them much - UNTIL it happens to you. I can say that because a similar incident happened to me. Fortunately I was able to keep the pitbull away from my dog with pepper spray and using other means. This is why I almost always carry pepperspray. Believe me - it works quite well if you have the right kind. I also suggest a striking weapon. I won't go into firearms because this is not a good reason for a firearm and the decision to carry one should be based on more than this scenario. And the responsibility is far, far greater.

I hope you heal fast. Your dog will likely do better than you will.....I do hope the authorities are involved in this.

---

 Jack, as always, a considered and thoughtful response. I believe you are right that Josie will mend faster than me. I can see it in her face when we visit her at the vet. Last night was first night since the attack that I slept without interuption, so the sharing and the support are an immeasureable part of healing. 

And, yes, the authorities are involved, we are petitioning them to have the dog designated as a dangerous animal, in no small part because of our injuries but the for the children that use that park next door to the house that the dog lives at. The owner was cited for ordinance violations for the incident. In Illinois, there is a "one bite" law (or more correctly one incident) the offending animal is submitted into quarantine for examination, held for ten days, then re-examined if the owner is known or humanely dealt with if no owner can be determined. Upon release, no person under 18 may walk or otherwise supervise the dog and it must be muzzled at all times while in public. It must be leashed at all times even in fenced areas. If a designation of dangerous animal is conferred on the dog and my gut feeling says that they will, any further incidents will considered a Felony and the owner arrested. Under Illinois law, the owner of an attacking dog is fully responsible for any and all medical and related expenses of the victim irregardless of whether it was leashed or not if the victim was within their rights to be where they were and were acting in a peaceful manner. 

Kelly, Lee & Trace your support is also appreciated and is helping with the healing.

-- Edited by biggaRView on Thursday 18th of September 2014 07:49:09 AM

Steve, you're right and I have been careful not make any claim that cannot be backed up sworn statements or that is in any way malicious toward the owner of the dog. There were plenty of witnesses and the LEOs that responded all concurred with our account and said I/we acted appropriately and with in the law.  Nonetheless, your warning is being heeded.

Brian

TRAILERKING wrote:

---

Jack Mayer wrote:

---

This is why I almost always carry pepperspray. Believe me - it works quite well if you have the right kind.

---

 Care to share what is the right kind. I would sure be interested to carry some at different times. I even got bit by my neighbors little wiener dog. Bit me in the leg, pierced holes through my jeans and to the bone. Hurt like hell for a long time after. Good thing wasn't wearing short pants.

---

 Take a look at this website. I Like the fog type since it is dispensed in a more uniform pattern with better coverage. The stream type puts down a more effective barrier but you have to HIT the offender with it. Fog is a better chance at getting it on target.

In all cases if you have it in a purse or pocket and fumble to get it out then it is useless. Like any other defensive tool you have to PRACTICE deployment. When I have mine on me it is carried on my belt near my right hand, and can be deployed fast. BUT you have to practice getting it out and aiming it so it becomes muscle memory. Otherwise you are just fooling yourself that it will be helpful to you. You also have to position it in the case so that your finger can slide under the cover without turning the cannister around. Without practicing, most people never notice this "deployment flaw".

I realize that kicking is a natural instinct in response to a charging dog, but many dogs that are charging are just exhibiting territorial behaviour and will not actually attack. Kicking it will cause it to basically defend itself....so you have to use good judgement in doing that. A hard thing to do in a high adrenaline situation.

And for those of you that do carry firearms I do hope you also carry a less lethal defense mechanism. Use of force continuum will apply to you as a civilian. You have a grave responsibility if you choose to carry and deploy your weapon. MOST people that have a concealed carry permit do not train enough or consider alternatives enough.....(OK, sorry for the deviation.....).

On edit....One thing I forgot - make sure you carry a decontamination product with your pepper spray. If you deploy it it is possible that you will get some of it too....hopefully not, but possible. You won't get a major hit, but bystanders and yourself will be thankful for the decon products. They come in small packets that are easy to carry.

-- Edited by Jack Mayer on Thursday 18th of September 2014 10:48:09 AM

At one time, I carried a heavy walking stick. I would hold the stick up and shout "No!" and I am loud and it worked with many dogs but the day a Siberian Husky came after Rinnie, I realized that trying to handle Rinnie and the stick and a dog determined to harm mine, the stick was of no use against so much activity. Shouting "No!" loudly and meaning it can go a long way in discouraging some dogs. If anyone has seen "The Dog Whisperer", what he calls "red zone" dogs cannot be reasoned with and they are out there. I had a protective dog years ago and I took the necessary precautions yet two people insisted on pushing it with her since dogs never bite them, well, they couldn't say that after their voluntary and stupid attempt to prove that with her. They just could not leave her alone and she did not like to be touched by strangers and, frankly, neither do I so I thought she should have the same option. She just nipped them but after that, they left her alone. So, you will encounter people that insist they should pet your dog or that their dogs want to be friends with theirs. I have also noticed that my dogs pick up my emotions and if I am not comfortable, neither are they.

SnowGypsy wrote:

---

...you will encounter people that insist they should pet your dog or that their dogs want to be friends with theirs....

---

 One must never take it for granted that a new dog or a child or an adult for that matter will be act appropriately but rather, in a manner that triggers an unexpected response. We always shorten Josie's leash when approaching others and are cautious particularly with other dogs and are ready to pull back when introductions are made if they do not go well. It's fairly obvious but not always when a line has been crossed. Children wanting to pet Josie is fairly simple affair from experience (she is irresistibly cute) and our practice is to stop and kneal down close to Josie and softly reassure her it's okay before they kids get close enough. She will general crouch on all four corners with her head on the ground, a submissive posture. A wagging tail is a good sign in this position and signals a safe approach. Occasionally we have had to tell the kids to slow down.  Josie is extremely tolerant of awkward handling by children but we are always on guard against overly anxious kids eager to say hello. Always better to play it safe when you can. We are always wary of any dog no matter how small or even well known to us that is off leash when Josie is on hers in a given situation, because that dog will have an advantage if things go badly. However after the attack on Sunday, even dog parks where they are allowed to run free will make me nervous.

-- Edited by biggaRView on Friday 19th of September 2014 09:51:17 AM

Brian: Maybe you could link up on the internet with some people that have been through what you have and see how they have come along in recovering from the mental/emotional scars. I just cannot imagine. It was bad enough for us to have what was minor compared to what you experienced. It took me probably a month before I took the dogs on a walk again and that was after getting the more powerful stun gun. That was almost 2 years ago and when we walk, I constantly scan in every direction and a tumbling leave gets my immediate attention. Any loose dog I see, I switch and go in the opposite direction as quick as I can. When we walk, there is myself, husband, son with DS and the senior dogs so we are sort of a large target. Your story has made me even more cautious which is a good thing because we were getting a little too comfortable and taking chances walking by houses where if the dog slipped out, it wouldn't be good. I am sure that you telling your story will help to assure that some others won't have to experience what you did. There is only so much we can do to prevent things like this and I refuse to become a prisoner in my own house. Dogs are such a big responsibility and these 2 will be my last, probably. Take care of you and yours and I am hoping for both a physical and mental/emotional recovery for the 3 of you.

Brian,
Thank you for your willingness to share so openly about this awful experience. I have also had a dog rush and attack one of my dogs when I was walking them on a leash, but it was mild compared to your experience, and no severe injuries for my dog or myself. After reading your story, I too am researching how best to defend myself and my dogs in the event of an attack. We send you, Cindi and Josie our sincere wishes for speedy physical and emotional healing. We're glad to have you on the forum.
Jo (and Ben)

Hoping that Cindi's doctor is right and that she won't need surgery. And, what time is the big welcome home party for Josie?

Well, we took a different route on our walk today and encountered a loose boxer. It ran at us from its yard while the owner called it. It is just reaching adulthood and I can see the attitude change. It parked itself, frozen in front of Rinnie and I fired the stun gun as a warning, and it was so focused on Rinnie I don't think it even noticed. The owner than announced "Don't do that, I don't put my hands on your dog so you don't put yours on mine." I told him "Then I suggest you keep your dog in your yard." He said "And, how would I do that?" I told him "I don't know, just get it done." Had he not became mouthy, I would not have called animal control. Animal control said that it did not sound aggressive but I recognized the stance as not good. She feels that the dog has probably not been socialized and I also know that isn't good. She did tell me that I need to call every time I see that the dog is out of the yard so that they have a record of it. I know that a lot of people don't want to complain but it will leave a paper trail that you may need later. Here, we have a lot of pitbulls and she says they are brought in, by a certain population that is out of control here, and the dogs are not treated humanely and are kept as protection resulting in the number of bites from the breed. They don't get shots, including rabies.

The owner of the boxer lives a half block away. They also have an RV. Now, the man has a British accent so maybe he isn't familiar with US laws. Truly SE Kansas is the area where we have had so many dog problems compared to other areas of KS and other states.

What might be useful for everyone is that last night, I googled for dog bites and came up with websites that discussed dog body language and had hints on ways to try to avoid dog bites.

Also, the animal control officer suggested pepper spray, she said not to get the mist which Jack suggested (I would tend to agree with Jack though) but get the other type. I told her the crew I had with me, I could not see being able to handle the pepper spray. I told her I would use or do whatever it took to protect a family member including my dogs and worry about consequences later. I did read quite a bit about the law and dogs which was interesting and it does vary by state.

What it all comes down to anymore with one's safety is that you have to do everything you can do to try to be safe and then you just have to live your life. I keep telling myself that because one is never safe not in S/B or in an RV parked anywhere and certainly not out in the public.

Cindi and I continue to heal from the physical injuries with additional doctor followups this coming week. The timing of the attack, has really put a dent in several "thumb and hand" required chores around the house including rebuilding the pad for our rainbarrels that we use for watering our veggie garden. 

Josie is finally home, with the "cone of shame" to protect her stitches, though I prefer to call it her "badge of honor". The drug regimen she's on will last a few more days if all goes well so she's a bit dopey shortly after being dosed and is resting most of the time. But she is alert enough and I took her for a short walk today and she seems relieved to get back to normal routines though some of our more active ones will definitely have to wait. 

We found out that the pitbull may have been involved in other biting incidents so we are following up on that.

Cathy, the boxer owner's response sounds almost comical... If he said that to Blue Collar Comedy member Bill Engvall, the response to "And, how do I keep my dog in my yard?" would be something like... "I guess you could always move to a deserted island...., heeeeeeere's your sign"  That guy is not too bright.

soos wrote:

---

I had been debating getting pepper spray after reading the previous thread about dogs and then the other day while hiking, a dog, on its own, approaches us, growling and barking. A minute later the owner showed up, telling the dog to "hush" while trying to have a casual conversation with us. I was frozen in place because the dog kept slowly approaching while still growling. Finally I said, "hey, I'm not a dog person, could you call him off? " the owner replied very sarcastically that it was obvious I don't like dogs ( is that a crime?) The dog never stopped growling and barking and my husband came very close to pulling out the knife he always carries.

Had the dog decided to attack there would have been nothing the owner could have done at that point to stop it. He had no control over that dog.
I see pepper spray in my future.
Sue

---

Yeah.............First should give the dog owner a shot of pepper spray and then the dog. 

Pit bulls were bred to hunt and attack. They are great for that. Why people insist in making pets out of them is beyond me. Don't get me wrong, I am a dog lover not a hater. Use a Pit Bull for what it is intended for.

Have seen too many Pit Bulls get aggressive to good owners who never mistreated them and they just couldn't believe their pet attacked them.

Pit bulls are not the only breed that has been known to attack people and other dogs. Some especially dangerous breeds known are the Dogo Argentino, Presa Canario, Cane Corso, Tosa Inu, Fila Brasileiro and Presa Mallorquin. Another breed that is less common, but certainly a dangerous mix is the wolf-dog hybrid that are often mistaken or mislabeled as a Husky or Malamute.  All of these are known to have attacked people for no KNOWN reason.   This is not to say other breeds will not attack, or bite.  Some of the smallest and most easy going breeds have been known to bite for no KNOWN reason.

-- Edited by rv-vagabond on Sunday 21st of September 2014 12:57:50 PM

As I opened with in my OP, I do not want to turn this into a condemnation of any breed that is known for agressive tendencies. NO dog is immune to biting. The majority of a dog's temperment comes from it's training, how it is handled, it's human "alpha" and how it is/was socialized when very young. Negative tendencies can be greatly mitigated with responsible ownership and thoughtful care and affection of the animal in question. In the end it all boils down to one common denominator... the responsible action of the owner. Negligent or irresponsible owners of dogs can have situations with very dire outcomes and very painful consequences.

Brian.

PS: Jack, I concur with your opinions and recommendations after some very thorough research.

-- Edited by biggaRView on Sunday 21st of September 2014 01:04:23 PM

Brain, I'll say no more. I have not posted my real feelings about Pit Bulls because of you.

Ok got my fogging super duper special pepper spray for me and the wife, my million volt "zap" cane, wifes 380 and my 45... Damn Chihuahua's don't stand a chance..lol

We won't use this stuff where we are now.. Private. But ready for the stupidity of RV parks..
just see someone walking a large dog on walking path, by the river, with no leash.. How much you want to bet this stuff won't be used on dogs?

manycats wrote:

---

I think I'll be well defended by my half-Manx attack cat, Junkman. My .22 long barrel Magnum will be used only as back-up against dummoxes who try to attack or steal her...

Kidding aside a big angry dog can create a very serious situation. Heck, even chihuahuas, if they attack in a pack can be dangerous. I used to raise them and they're fast and aggressive when provoked.

---

 I don't think I'd be worried about a pack of chihauahuas.. Pepper spray them maybe.. but doubtful...lol

I'm more afraid of big dogs, bears, coyotes, or any hungry large wild animals, and stupid , crazy people.

 

A little off track.. but..Yesterday..  Across the way from me, there is a guy living in a van, fulltimer , boondocking..lol.. he is feuding with the neighbors around here cause they stopped him from build a spot for a rv on his property.. As we where walking the dog yesterday, just as we walked by, behind his van, you heard a loud ****ing of a rifle.. We thought this guy is nuts.. I had my hand on my gun waiting to see him come out from around the van.. He didn't..

Just goes to show you how stupid and crazy people are.Some times they are pushed to the point where nothing matters anymore. Maybe this guy is one of them..

We could have been killed .. or if he was just trying to scare us away.. He could have been killed. He had the drop on us. We had no idea about this guy..I have a video cam set up out front now, looping. And will be very ready next I walk by..And I have to , as we are on a dead end..

We live in a wicked world.. with wicked people at every turn.. Watch your backs people !

-- Edited by The Junkman on Saturday 27th of September 2014 07:48:08 AM