(Very) Technical question from a networking Pro - RV-Dreams Community Forum

cheryls-other-half · RV-Dreams Family Member

(Very) Technical question from a networking Pro

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

RE: (Very) Technical question from a networking (so I thought) Pro

cheryls-other-half · RV-Dreams Family Member

Augh, I hate the software on this board. I type some key, and it deletes all my data, and need to start over. (again...)

That's why the previous message was created in wordpad. (sigh)...

OK Bill: thanks for the answer, but I think I may have mis-stated the questions, and requests for suggestions:

a) Yes, I already have the Cradlepoint 95 hardware.
b) and feel free to correct me here...
The Cradlepoint will take the 3g/4g signal and distribute it via the rj45 port to a standard router (or just to a hub if I want),
where I can then distribute the signal to my internal lan. I am pretty sure this system will NOT take a USB wifi-card and understand the signal, (but will verify that tomorrow again!)

c) The current environment I currently have appears to be the exact inverse of this, where my desktop's wifi card is stealing the local (think mcdonalds or campground) wifi signal, and piping that info via the RJ45/ethernet wired port to a regular desktop router, which is then going to distribute it to my internal lan with MY SSID and password.

I asked about the WRT and/or Tomato software, because the stock router (belkin) I'm currently using stinks, (can't do dhcp reservations to ensure the devices keep the same ip)-[yes I can hardcode them too,just like i did in solaris or SunOS 20 years ago too], as well as unsure of the advanced features of those routers.. and it didn't work right away either.

and... SINCE we STILL haven't closed, money (for a new router that will RUN WRT or tomato firmware ) is DEFINITELY an issue right now...

and (yet another question) while you're using the Cradlepoint MBR95, when you get to the 20gb limit from milinicom, how are you passing the other signals to it (ie, simply via another usb modem/card?
I ask this because among the methods I plan to use are to occasionally tether my grandfathered phone in (most likely I guess via a usb cable to the (??) [I'm guessing I need to use the PC here, that it would NOT work simply phone to the usb port in the cradlepoint...)

it sucks being stuck in limbo here... I really want to get started and get back to work asap!)

cherylbrv · RV-Dreams Family Member

RE: (Very) Technical question from a networking Pro

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

The Cradlepoint MBR95 is pulling in the Millenicom hotspot via "Wifi as WAN" since Cradlepoint does not support the Pantech 291 via USB. I have multiple wifi's configured as input, ordered for fail over. I also have a Pepwave Surf Mini, which is an external wifi adapter that has an Ethernet port instead of USB. I can use it in the WAN port of the Cradlepoint if I need a stronger wifi adapter than the MBR95 can pull in. Download and read the MBR95 manual, it really is a nice router with useful firmware.

One reason I am thinking of getting the Pepwave Surf SOHO is it does support the Pantech 291 via USB. The Pepwave has really good firmware, you will feel at home with it. You can download its manual and look.

The WifiRanger will also do these things. I am not a fan of WifiRanger because they have a tendency to dumb down their systems too much for my liking and have had way too many problems with firmware updates. But, they seem to be much better now and I respect their champions like Jack Mayer and Technomadia. I have not had a chance to play with a WifiRanger or Pepwave Surf SOHO since I haven't really needed them and can find other things to spend money on.

Edit: Step back and get some perspective on what these things really do, instead of how you want them to work.

-- Edited by bjoyce on Wednesday 18th of June 2014 10:21:29 AM

cheryls-other-half · RV-Dreams Family Member

cherylbrv wrote:
The Junkman wrote:
...
Why are you folks doing all this software / hardware upgrades?... Is this for security? are you running some sort of online business where the outside world accesses your data? ...
I keep asking him the same question! I don't understand why we can't both have our laptops connected via a network and that's that. But I guess his answers are way too technical for me. I'm sure there's a method to his madness!!!

PLAIN ENGLISH ANSWER.. (simple mode on...)

well. just like the technomadia folks, we need to be online. absolutely...

and that means not just having milenicom access, but ways of feeding other internet signals to our home devices.

(home devices = 2 laptops, a server, 2 tablets, 2 cell phones and a wifi printer.) phew.

[when you go WOW, just remind yourself at one point I had about 5 servers more in the mix... I be a techie at heart!]

Noone accessing OUR data. We need outside access to run OUR business.

So. simple again...

one (IP/internet) address inside the RV/HOUSE <<--->> a box to connect to the outside world (aka a router), and multiple thingies to connect to the router at different times/circumstances

hope that is non-technical enough.

cherylbrv · RV-Dreams Family Member

So is it safe to assume that we need all this stuff in order to connect all the devices to the same IP address? If so, why is that important and is it something Steve (The Junkman) needs to do to run his Ebay business?

01zeosix · RV-Dreams Family Member

cherylbrv wrote:
So is it safe to assume that we need all this stuff in order to connect all the devices to the same IP address? If so, why is that important and is it something Steve (The Junkman) needs to do to run his Ebay business?

I sent Mitch an email concerning this. It appears that you are over-engineering the setup.

You need is a SOURCE for/from the Internet (Hotspot i.e. Millenicom, USB 3G-4G - like a Pantech, Phone, External WIFI - Campground, Micky Dee's, etc.)

Connect your SOURCE to the CradlePoint MBR which will route your connection(s). It supports 32 concurrent connections out of the box. Connect via Wireless or through one of the four (yellow) LAN ports on the back of the router.

Using the information I sent to you via email, log into the MBR control panel and setup the private network and other settings there. Including a check for new BIOS software etc......

I have a Cradlepoint MBR 1400 that I use with a couple of GB switches. Handles everything for me, including VPN connections to a FTP server. Multiple PC's, NAS, Roku, multiple Android tablets, All-N-One printer, etc.... etc....

Easy Peasy.... Forget the Belkin unless it's a bridge. Start at the MBR and setup from there. Remember that the MBR is a 2GHz radio, not 5 GHz. You might also want to assign channels to various devices to help eliminate cross-chatter.

Hope this helps some.... Glad to hear that you're enjoying the "Suh-Weet"

cheryls-other-half · RV-Dreams Family Member

cherylbrv wrote:
So is it safe to assume that we need all this stuff in order to connect all the devices to the same IP address? If so, why is that important and is it something Steve (The Junkman) needs to do to run his Ebay business?

Heh heh heh. our daughter used to chide us for IM'ing in the same room, now we're BBSing in the same room over the internet (again...just like 25 years ago with a 1 line analog bbs).

OK.. plain english:

a) our situation is more convoluted then normal, because we don't actually have a VZ/Millenicom 3G/4G modem yet... IF we did, that would cover 80% of our setup/configuration.

b) you said...snip... is it safe to assume that we need all this stuff in order to connect all the devices to the same IP address?

--yes, with the amount of devices we have (2pc's, 2 tablets, printers, server, etc), we want them to all be on one lan, and MOST IMPORTANT, when we change where we're getting the internet from (VZ/wifi/etc), we DONT want to have to change the IP addresses on ALL of those devices each time.,

------>> >THAT is the key... NOT changing the ip addresses .,..

c) If so, why is that important and is it something Steve (The Junkman) needs to do to run his Ebay business? I call a spade a spade. IDK (I don't know!) Perhaps??

did that help?

cheryls-other-half · RV-Dreams Family Member

...snip...snip...snip... and that means not just having milenicom access, but ways of feeding other internet signals to our home devices. ...snip... I said......snip... one (IP/internet) address inside the RV/HOUSE > a box to connect to the outside world (aka a router), and multiple thingies to connect to the router at different times/circumstances ---------------------------- What is "other internet signals" ? .. Please explain.. OK: Technomadia has discussed much of this already... but... There are several reasons why you would have multiple internet signals a) coverage (vendors) varies (verizon/AT&T/sprint) b) monthly limits on transmit/receive. unlike a S&B house, (Cable/DSL modems, Uverse or FIOS where you get unlimited transmit/receive), the amount you get to send and receive per month in your RV WILL be limited. Our future Millenicom plan will be 20GB per month Cheryl's Verizon plan for her SmartpI hone will be 2GB max per month.
My grandfathered ATT plan for my theoretically unlimited smartphone is not really unlimited, I'd guess when I get to 10-15 gb in a month I'll get a nastygram from them telling me I am violating my Terms and Conditions, and that they will terminate me!
so that's why we might need multiple internet SOURCES as usual, tell me if that ISN't simple enough!

-- Edited by cheryls-other-half on Wednesday 18th of June 2014 01:57:50 PM--formatting again..

-- Edited by cheryls-other-half on Wednesday 18th of June 2014 01:59:37 PM

cheryls-other-half · RV-Dreams Family Member

... junkman said...
Ok I get it. You are trying to set up multiple internet providers into a single wireless router? ( real simple..) biggrin

Price of the service is driving added internet suppliers? I was looking at the verizon Millencom, and you can just add another 20gb , once the first is gone.. I assume this is not cost effective?

...no, not really the greatest option. yes, it would work, but not greatest option, especially if I do have other options, like X Gb from my brother, or Y GB from (say MCDonalds or campsite), or even a cell phone in a pinch...
and if there is no signal from Verizon/Millencom, but there is on AT&T... more agita.

cherylbrv · RV-Dreams Family Member

My brain is exploding!

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

I thought I heard a little firecracker go off....... biggrin wink biggrin

BiggarView · RV-Dreams Family Member

cherylbrv wrote:
My brain is exploding!

Need a refill on that drink ma'am? Apparently not enough brain cells killed off on the first one.... have another. Repeat until you are incomprehensible. You won't care if your brain explodes then. biggrin biggrin

I only vaguely get what they are talking about. confuse Something about networks, addresses, gigabits.... Oh geez now my brain hurts too. Gimme that drink, I need it biggrin

Brian

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

I have sprint as one provider.....verizon(Milinicom) as my other....if all else fails Im well versed in smoke signals!!! biggrin wink biggrin

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

The Cradlepoint has a guest wifi ability, which is a second outbound wifi that plays in its own IP space but will get bandwidth tracked. Set up the MBR95 as the center of the universe router, all inputs go through it, including multiple wifi inputs, and it puts out two networks, one that has Ethernet and wifi and the guest wifi that is for your devices you need to keep off the main network.

Update the MBR95 to the latest firmware, and go into the router webpages. Where you see "Basic", change to "Advanced".

We have two hotspots, plus campground wifi, plus sometimes have wired Ethernet input. I can manage all of these with my MBR95, which are on, which are off, which have higher priority, what usage levels they can handle and when those usage levels reset to zero. I think you will find it will do most, if not all you need, and if you need more it should be obvious.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

I'll make some comments which may or may not apply to the various situations here. I really don't want to insert myself in this at this point (been out of town busy for 4 days so I was not monitoring the board).

1) you do not - in general - want to have two routers in your typical RV/home network. If you do, you have to carefully configure them. There really is little reason to do this.

2) the more devices you have the more problems you have. Period. While this may seem obvious, simple is always best in networking.

3) I see little reason to buy a Cradlepoint 95 if you are buying it today. There are better devices, IMO. For the non-network aficionado I'd recommend another device. If you love networking and want a CP95, go for it....Personally, I'd rather see the "normal" person in a Pepwave SOHO over the 95. Or a WiFiRanger Go2. I see absolutely no reason to own a 95 at this point in time (although I have one).

4) Bill has provided some good advice about simplifying this and still achieving the goals. This actually is pretty simple to do with the right equipment.

5) Netgear N900 is a nice home router. It is not suitable - alone - for RV use IN MY OPINION. It does not have wifi as WAN, and it does not integrate cellular modems as an Internet source.

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

The Junkman: Don't overlook the Pepwave Surf SOHO and the WifiRanger series. If I was buying new I would get a Pepwave Surf SOHO with added antennas instead since it can pull in wifi better, you can run the Millenicom 291 hotspot via USB and it has better bandwidth usage tracking. It does cost more, $130 alone or $160 with the added antennas from 3Gstore.com. Jack Mayer's review is linked from http://www.jackdanmayer.com/communication.htm.

cheryls-other-half · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jack Mayer wrote:

I'll make some comments which may or may not apply to the various situations here. I really don't want to insert myself in this at this point (been out of town busy for 4 days so I was not monitoring the board).

1) you do not - in general - want to have two routers in your typical RV/home network. If you do, you have to carefully configure them. There really is little reason to do this.

2) the more devices you have the more problems you have. Period. While this may seem obvious, simple is always best in networking.

3) I see little reason to buy a Cradlepoint 95 if you are buying it today. There are better devices, IMO. For the non-network aficionado I'd recommend another device. If you love networking and want a CP95, go for it....Personally, I'd rather see the "normal" person in a Pepwave SOHO over the 95. Or a WiFiRanger Go2. I see absolutely no reason to own a 95 at this point in time (although I have one).

4) Bill has provided some good advice about simplifying this and still achieving the goals. This actually is pretty simple to do with the right equipment.

5) Netgear N900 is a nice home router. It is not suitable - alone - for RV use IN MY OPINION. It does not have wifi as WAN, and it does not integrate cellular modems as an Internet source.

Jack
thanks for the comments.

some discussion:
... 1) you do not - in general - want to have two routers in your typical RV/home network.
.. Agree whole-heartedly... Simpler is better-er.

...2) the more devices you have the more problems you have. Period.
While this may seem obvious, simple is always best in networking.
..Ditto. See # 1 above.

3a) I see little reason to buy a Cradlepoint 95 if you are buying it today.
... Totally understand, this unit --not a mbr95, was gifted to me...at least I dont lose money there...

3b) There are better devices, IMO.
... Duly noted.

3c)For the non-network aficionado I'd recommend another device.
...durn, I'd agree. I don't like re-inventing the wheel.

3d) If you love networking and want a CP95, go for it....
... See 3c above...

3d) Personally, I'd rather see the "normal" person in a Pepwave SOHO over the 95.
... hmm, need to compare the two.

Or a WiFiRanger Go2. I see absolutely no reason to own a 95 at this point in time (although I have one).

and see if I can limp by till september, when we'll be at the rally, and near the factory, and see if I can have that re-done, and rewired better ...

Thanks for your input..

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

If you want to see a comparison of the SOHO to the WFR and Cradlepoint look at the review I wrote. You can find it here.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

The Junkman wrote:
Jack Mayer wrote:
If you want to see a comparison of the SOHO to the WFR and Cradlepoint look at the review I wrote. You can find it here.
How old is this review?
Someone posted I get the wi-fi ranger Sky with my DRV.. But don't see a review of it..? I do see other Ranger stuff...thx

Less than a year old - the date is on it.

The Sky will not perform as well as a Go2 with Mobile. But it will outperform the SOHO in almost every circumstance if you JUST want to capture wifi. But be aware that comparing the Sky to a SOHO is not an apples-to-apples comparison. They have different features and capabilities. The SKY has no ethernet ports and cannot connect a cellular modem. It is WiFi capture ONLY.

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

I have been to a couple RV parks where you could go into the office and use an Ethernet cable to get online, but none to each campsite.

As to why have Ethernet, I can give you examples. They might not matter to you, but they might to others.
1) I have had to use Ethernet to set up a new computer. Once set up I could install or download the wireless driver.
2) You can hook a second router up via Ethernet to keep the networks separated for security.
3) I used Ethernet to update my DVD player since I did not want it on my wifi network. These kind of connected devices use lots of internet bandwidth, so keep those DVD players, game machines and smart TVs off your cellular wifi network.
4) You might bring a computer, printer, or something else with you that is set up for Ethernet and not wifi. With Ethernet available you can use it as-is and do not have to spend more money for a wifi adapter or a replacement for the unit.

Also, 4GLTE can be very fast and support many users. I have had better speeds than DSL. Yesterday I downloaded a 1.2GB file in 20 minutes.

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Just be aware that the Sky does not handle cellular modems directly. It will pick them up as a hotspot and repeat, but you do lose speed that way.

One use in your scenario for a hardwired system would be a NAS that you put all your movies on and served the up from there. Just a thought.

cheryls-other-half · RV-Dreams Family Member

The Junkman wrote:

...snip...
Jack Mayer wrote:
One use in your scenario for a hardwired system would be a NAS that you put all your movies on and served the up from there. Just a thought.

Yeah, that's exactly the scenario, our nas /file server

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

The Junkman wrote:
Jack Mayer wrote:

Why would I use the SKY with a hot spot? I would just connect to the hotspot direct. as in my cellphone hotspot.???
It didn't seem this hard when I was on the road using the verizon hotspot card thing.. turn it on.. connect.. done.. your on.. Pretty quick service too...
Will get to looking more into it.. Slammed training new owners for a couple weeks.

The reason to have a single network via a router that can handle multiple back-end connections to the Internet and present a single network connection to your devices is that you do not have to continually connect each device to whatever the "network of the day" is. In other words, connect one time for all the devices - one login, one hotspot name. The backend gets switched out based on available Internet. It could be cellular (directly tethered), or it could be a variety of wifi connections - offered by a park, nearby open hotspots, or your phones.

Having a single network means that your NAS, your TV, your printer, and other more "static" wifi devices that do not make reconfiguration particularly easy do not need to be messed with. Believe me -it makes life FAR simpler. Ever try to change a wifi printer to work on some random network? Now, if none of these factors apply to you, and you have a simple setup of a single laptop accessing an available wifi source (through the Sky) then you simply do not need a router.

Bill and Linda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jack Mayer wrote:
The Junkman wrote:
Jack Mayer wrote:

Why would I use the SKY with a hot spot? I would just connect to the hotspot direct. as in my cellphone hotspot.???
The reason to have a single network via a router that can handle multiple back-end connections to the Internet and present a single network connection to your devices is that you do not have to continually connect each device to whatever the "network of the day" is.
Having a single network means that your NAS, your TV, your printer, and other more "static" wifi devices that do not make reconfiguration particularly easy do not need to be messed with. Believe me -it makes life FAR simpler. Ever try to change a wifi printer to work on some random network?

This is a big deal, IMO as Jack has outlined. We’ve done it this way for years and when the “internet connection device de jour” is required to be changed due to technology moves we don’t have to reconfigure everything. Still one login, etc. as Jack said and the printers and network drives still work with their fixed IPs.

You can also do this with a mechanical switch, believe it or not, that is used to select the internet source to the router required under different situations / sources. Not very high tech, but it works really well and I’ve never had to reboot this switch.

http://www.amazon.com/2PORT-CAT5-Manual-Switch-Beige/dp/B000JHEKIM

or

http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-NETWORK-SWITCH-PORT-RJ45/dp/B000I96BVK/ref=pd_sim_e_2/181-7318778-9559520?ie=UTF8&refRID=18W6P0F9BYVSRFXB718T

-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Wednesday 2nd of July 2014 03:51:06 PM

Jack Mayer · RV-Dreams Family Member

Steve, you have to try to look at the big picture and protect against future desires/changes.

The Sky can handle multiple devices and act as a (limited) router. BUT, the limitations are twofold - first, it only handles wifi as the Internet source, and second it offers no LAN hardwired connections. Now, you have said that you do not care about hardwired (at the moment). So we will dismiss the second limitation.

To give you the most flexibility I would suggest that you want the WIFIRanger Go2. It is designed to work in conjunction with the Sky. If you are buying a router to use with the Sky I suggest that you stay within the family of WiFiRanger products.

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

When you say you need Internet connectivity 24/7, satellite comes to mind and it uses Ethernet. People are still adding and using satellite internet because it is the only way to get internet in out of the way places. I had it for many years, until Verizon and AT&T were in enough places I was willing to live with the rare place we camped without internet. But, we do not need Internet 24/7.

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

No, the TV satellites do not provide internet. Hughes.net and Starband come to mind for more normal people, iDirect and others for those willing to pay over $200 a month.

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hughes.net is not unlimited, the $60 plan is around 300MB per day of download before they slow you way down. With Hughes.net you need to be on a Ku band plan, mostly they sell Ka band plans (Gen4) that are spot beamed and do not work for mobile. It looks like their website doesn't even cover the mobile plans. To get the mobile plans you probably have to go through http://www.rtc-vsat.com/ . Most users are on an $80 a month plan with a 425MB per day download limit, no upload limit and 5 hours in the middle of the night with no limit.

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

Hughes.net needs its own dishes and modems. Starband can use standard equipment. But I am no expert on what works today, talk to Barb and Joe at http://www.mobileinternetsatellite.com/ to find out about plans, etc.