Joe Average Asks What It Will Take to Go Fulltiming? - RV-Dreams Community Forum

Russ Ranger · RV-Dreams Family Member

Joe Average Asks What It Will Take to Go Fulltiming?

SnowGypsy · RV-Dreams Family Member

I've seen plenty of budgets for less than $3,000 a month so let's not scare anyone off. Also, emergencies happen in any lifestyle. You must keep in mind that we come from different income levels and even among the income levels, we have different ideas of what is a necessity and what isn't. Some enjoy restaurants while others can be content with a picnic. Some need special electronics for their business endeavors, some just feel they need those things because they had them in their "other" life and others are happy to severely limit them in trade for the adventure of the road.

We have always lived below our means. Frugality is a virtue that I learned while growing up so it has been easy. I studied accounting for awhile in college years ago and learned to budget out of necessity. I know what it is like to have to read your electric meter every day to make sure that you can pay the bill when it comes in and although this was very long ago, over 30 years ago, I learned to budget and make allowances for emergencies by doing with less in one area to cover something unexpected or figuring out where the extra income might come from. I never paid a bill late and never needed financial help from anyone.

So, I don't qualify as an "Average Joe" by your definition and neither do a whole lot of other people on the road right now.

Isn't having emergency funds/plans and budgets a necessity for financial success in any lifestyle? So, it won't be a lot different.

-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Friday 17th of January 2014 05:19:00 PM

-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Friday 17th of January 2014 05:19:45 PM

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

If I wanted to jump into the health issue portion.....I would have to say "Be Prepared"!!

I know The ACA will now make a difference but When my life changing events occurred I thought my coverage was there!!!......needless to say my insurance dropped me cold the first chance they had which almost wiped me out !.... in a period of 1 yr I managed to generate 1.7 M in medical bills after the insurance bailed on me!

the " it wont happen to me factor" I had was wrong X4 Bad things happen out here and when they do your not going to be in your back yard.

Howard and Linda had an engine loss.......not a cheap affair

A coach fire or theft......again devastating

Good insurance , good reserves are a must...........or at least a means and a mindset to survive a mishap......they do happen!!

cherylbrv · RV-Dreams Family Member

But I agree with Cathy -- life happens in any lifestyle. You can have health issues and severe damage while living in a S&B. Think hurricanes (Katrina, Sandy), tornados, landslides. List goes on and on. It's important to have a reserve in the bank if at all possible for such emergencies, and plan on paying for warranties and insurance (including a great roadside assistance plan) on a monthly basis for that extra protection.

manycats · RV-Dreams Family Member

Financial hits are a fact of life no matter what your life style. $500 may be devastating to one person and a drop in the bucket to another. Somehow, we always manage to cope. Savings are wiped out one day and we start saving again the next day. We make sure we have enough to cover the basics, we may have to eat tomato soup and cheese sandwiches for a while but we survive.

It's very hard to define "Average Joe". Someone who makes $20,000 a year and someone who makes $200,000 a year may both consider themselves average if they compare themselves with someone who makes less. My "end of life" plan definitely does not include a gold plated casket and I'm not going to worry about what I can't prevent or avoid. Every person has to make his or her decisions. Some people can live on very little money, some need a lot, just find out which one you are.

Sushidog · RV-Dreams Family Member

Yep, a Hurricane Katrina survivor here, and I can attest to the fact that stuff happens regardless of your lifestyle. If I can't afford something like health insurance, I won't be able to afford it living in a more expensive S&B home as well as in a less expensive RV home. Conversely, I may be able to afford to replace a $500-$700 RV roof air conditioner, but I wasn't able to afford to replace my $5,000 S&B central AC when it went out. Later, the main water line of my S&B broke underground requiring a very expensive dig-up and repair - which I couldn't afford at the time with all my other bills. I was forced to turn on the leaking water pipe to shower, flush the toilet or fill the sink and turn it off at the main valve when done. Very inconvenient, but we all make do with what we have, right? If I would have had to haul water from a stream or a well I would have simply done it if I had no other choice. We all do what we need to to survive. Had a water pipe burst in an RV I could have just run a hose through a window for sink and toilet flushing, and showered, shaved and laundried at the CG bath house until I could afford the much smaller cost to have it repaired. There are many ways to get by cheaper and easier when Rving and less encumbered with property and the bills to maintain and keep said stuff from falling into the hands of the tax man. For the cost of just my homeowner's insurance and property tax on my old S&B I could replace my entire diesel powered tow vehicle, not just the engine, every 2 years.

Chip

SnowGypsy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Russ Ranger: I know that you are pretty new at posting here. As you can, we have a lot of dedicated "dreamers" and "doers" here that have or are going to overcome the "financial" end of the dream. I truly believe the Average Joe is generally looking to keep the budget as low as possible either because they are building a reserve fund, don't want to dig into an existing fund or are like us and just believe that being frugal is a worthy virtue. I'm thinking many here have had a lot of unplanned expenses over the years and are here ready to take on another challenge if need be.

"Very low end" is sort of offensive to me anyway. It isn't like we'd be living in a tent down by the river and doesn't mean we don't have a reserve of cash. There is also a very big challenge in being frugal and riding on the "very low end" and the reward is confidence when you succeed and a feeling of security knowing that you are resourceful enough to ride out the "bumps" that life brings.

I realize that your post is well intended and a way to get ideas and discussion out there but I'm disagreeing on your qualifications for the "Average Joe" when it comes to the RVing lifestyle. Do I wish we would have $40,000 a year to full-time on? No, I'd just try to squirrel away 1/2 of it and only draw next to nothing in interest and I'm convinced that soon they will be charging us for just having an account because the interest can't get much lower. Grandpa was frugal so I think it is genetic. Thank you, Grandpa!!!

Sushidog · RV-Dreams Family Member

They do charge you for having money in the bank, Snowgypsy. It's called inflation. smile

Chip

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

We're about four months out (maybe) from being full-timers, so this discussion is right where we're at. We've played with the numbers quite a bit before we ever got serious about full-timing, and now we're fine-tuning the budget. I think that the key is to start planning several years out. The numbers won't be spot on at that point, but ought to be reasonably close. As you look at the difference between income and expense you can start to decide where to cut or what the excess might be. If the income looks like it is going to be too short you will have to decide whether to continue the idea or what you can do to add to the income OR cut the expenses. Personal tastes will enter into this. We prefer parks to commercial campgrounds, so our camping expenses might be somewhat less than those who want to go from resort to resort. How much one travels with the RV will make a difference, too. We're budgeting 5000 miles/year on the Foretravel and 10,000 miles/year on the Jeep. That is a LOT less driving than we did last year, when we put nearly 20,000 miles on each of two cars.

Russ Ranger · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thank you for all your replies. Your stories and plans are exactly the important part of a plan to successfully stay on the road through difficulties. When that portion of those 1704 visitors come here to plan their futures, we want them to go out ready for reality.

Here are two things I did to give me better odds of success in our fulltiming adventure.

I made the decision to buy less RV than I could afford. I wanted a back-up plan and the dollars it would take to not be knocked off the road when something happens. Not if, but when. I'm counting on it and I will be overjoyed if that day never comes. What good would it do to spend two or three times more than what I did for my RV if I was unable to weather a financial storm?

Like Lucky Mike and Howard I have had rough year medically. Open heart surgery followed by the need to be on Cumadin the rest of my life. (Howard and I can tell you what a pain it can be to keep our INR in balance.) I can tell you I hate writing that huge medical insurance check each month. The only thing more fatal would be not writing that check each month.

Fact: You can not RV if you are dead.

Those are two strategies I used in my planning. Not over extending on a really shiny new RV and not dying before leaving on our big adventure.

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

"Average" is overrated. Kind of like "common", as in "common sense" is overrated. Many people are not ready for those big, expensive surprises. But somehow, many cope and find a way to pay and move on. It is way better to have the savings/reserve to handle these surprises, but they still hurt. My father was a banker, I am not normal. My wife's grandmother saved 50% of her husband's take home pay, since he had a temper and lost his job periodically. That savings got put into buying cheap houses and renting them out, which saved them financially.

You have to learn to be self reliant, how to make more money and keep it. Don't buy a new car every three years, don't have 3 DVRs in the house, don't have a big house (I learned that one the hard way), etc. I learned to be a good, sometimes excellent employee, and got well rewarded for it. I got educated, I worked hard, I continued to learn, I saved, I paid attention and now I am enjoying an early retirement. We just had some big expenses on our motorhome, to some here the numbers would take them out, but we are still on the road.

I have probably said too much.

Sushidog · RV-Dreams Family Member

Delaying the inevitable - now that sounds like the best plan yet!

Chip

Russ Ranger · RV-Dreams Family Member

SnowGypsy,

I am very sorry if my words were offensive to you. If you knew me you would know that I would never intentionally say anything that was hurtful to another person. My sincere apology for being offensive.

Hopefully in my future posts you will get to know me better and those attributes that are hard to see in typed words on the web will come through.

By the way I am no rich dude, I am amazingly frugal. As one of our strategies to be able to fulltime we live part of the year in Mexico. We live the rest of the year in a 2000 RV.

Life is good and I think we should be friends.

WestWardHo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Another great thread with lots of different opinions. It's a good topic with a lot of different points of view and no reason for any of us to take offense because someone else sees it differently. My understanding of the original post was a good hearted attempt to begin a different discussion of the financial realities of this full time lifestyle for those planning to join it.

One point Russ didn't make was, Howard and Linda had a very good business year financially and that the choose (operative word) to take some expensive vacations and modifications which they could afford to do because they worked harder, planned, saved, made some frugal choices and most of all made the decision that was right for them.

Some of us are fortunate to have great medical insurance, some of us don't. Some of us believe in extended warranties and some of us don't. As many have pointed out things happen in sticks and bricks as well. It is important to know and understand your own priorities and needs and to have a back up emergency fund if at all possible.

I, personally, wouldn't have had the courage to make this move without studying Howard's and other's budgets. I've been pretty wealthy and I've been down to my last $20.00, I liked wealthy better! 😄 Note the past tense.
But this lifestyle is about more than budgets, it's also about some freedom to move and about the joy of nature and a simpler life, to see and experience new places and people and so much more. But folks, we're going to be taking "us" with us so if we haven't managed well before or at least worked our way out of it, we probably won't in the RV lifestyle either.

Sherry

-- Edited by WestWardHo on Friday 17th of January 2014 08:58:09 PM

LibertyLinda · RV-Dreams Family Member

Sherry,

You have summed it up well- my thoughts exactly.

There is no difference except how you live your lifestyle.

Russ Ranger · RV-Dreams Family Member

Words of wisdom. Here is Howards wrap-up of their financials for the last three months of 2013:

So, with a rough summer, we ended October $15,650 over budget for the year. That's two years in a row we've had to deplete our emergency fund of about six months of expenses ($18,000) and re-build it. We HIGHLY recommend having an emergency fund for unexpected expenses.

In November, mostly because we were doing so well with our businesses income for the year, we did some RV upgrades that we weren't planning to do until next year. We replaced all of our expensive AGM batteries, we put on a spray-on roof, we replaced our RV ladder (which has been broken since 2006), we upgraded our TV antenna, and Linda re-decorated our bedroom. I hadn't budgeted those items for 2013, and they came to over $5,000.

To end the year, we managed to come in under budget for December by a little bit. For the entire year, we were $20,660 over budget. Much of that was unexpected expenses for which we had to use our emergency funds and Health Savings Account, but some of it was because we had such a good year income-wise, and we could afford to do some things we weren't planning on doing while still setting aside quite a bit of cash.

azrving · RV-Dreams Family Member

Russ Ranger wrote:
There were 1704 visitors that visited this site in the last 24 hours. By the nature of "RV Dreams" we can assume that many of these visitors are curious and looking for information that will help them make a decision about their future. People are considering selling their homes and almost all their possessions and making a major leap to their "dream". I know because that was our position for a couple years of lurking at this site before our leap in July 2013.
I want to say right now that I am grateful for the wealth of information that Howard and Linda provide to us all. It was the single most valuable tool in leading us through the process.
Now to stir the pot and get myself yelled at. Here is my basic question....What does it take for Joe Average to go fulltiming?
When people ask this question the typical answer is usually aimed at the very low end, cost wise. Now I understand that the information provided is great for those folks wanting to enter at the very low end, but the majority of people are seeking advise that is more toward the middle of the road "Average Joe".
Howard and Linda are gracious and open in providing their budgets year after year. These numbers are probably the best point of reference to use when giving advice to seekers. There are extremely important lessons to be learned from them in the last few years. Here are the simple facts: No debt, $39,628 per year budget.
Now for the hard information. The last two years they have exceeded their budget by $20,659 and $21,1440. Life happens.
Now the first facts that should be shared before budgets, RV purchase, toad selection, the list goes on, is how much will it take to remain a fulltimer when "life happen". If you don't plan and have an answer you are on an extended vacation until something goes wrong.
So let's explore and bring out in the open how we have prepared to handle health issues and big financial hits when they come.
This information may be more valuable to prospective fulltimers than all the other stuff we discuss.

Glad I'm not your average Joe! biggrin $39,628 per year! I don't spend that much living in the S&B and we have owned some really nice homes...still own one unfortunately. furious

I have been following Howard & Linda's blog for years now and they definitely live better on the road than most of us do living in our S&B. More power to them but we are just too frugal to live that kind of lifestyle. My grandparents raised me and they endured hard times during the depression so I was raised in a home where waste wasn't tolerated. Going out to eat, owning a new car, vacations, having the latest gadgets, etc. were considered a luxury not a necessity.

Health insurance is my biggest concern when we hit the road full-time everything else will be manageable because we are used to living with less. We don't pay for TV (still use an outdoor antenna), we rarely go out to eat, we shop with coupons, don't pay list price for anything, sales only, all of my vehicles & RV are more than 10 years old, not scared to purchase gently used items, shop @ Sears/Kmart/Wal-Mart for clothes, etc. I have saved the most money by not hiring out what I can do myself, I maintain and repair all of our vehicles, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, etc. I shop online to find deals and avoid sales tax when I can. We have one cellphone and it's a Verizon Prepaid...a whole $35.00 per month, it's a dumb phone not a smart phone. biggrin Shoot, I’m still running Window 98SE on one computer and XP on another and I have had no issues.

I hope this post doesn't scare off any potential full-timers, you can live on much less than $39,000 and have just as much fun as the people blowing through thousands of $. You just have to decide what's a necessity and what's a luxury.

“Without frugality none can be rich, and with it very few would be poor.”

Samuel Johnson

SnowGypsy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Russ Ranger: I knew that your intention was not to be offensive and my issue was with the terminology of "very low end". I can 2nd just about everything that "azrving" has said in the post above. I actually take pride in my frugality and we have acquired much more than many with greater incomes over the years. We have been debt-free for many years now and that, in itself, makes us not the "Average Joe". We both have VA Healthcare having been in the military and our adult son with DS has Medicaid but we practice homeopathic/herbal medicine mixed with a healthy diet and exercise so rarely seek medical attention since it tended to make problems worse rather than better. I am sorry to hear of your medical problems and hope you'll be full-timing for many years ahead.

Additionally, knowing our budget and having moved around several times over the last 30+ years, I don't need to follow in anyone's footsteps, we start our own paths. I have looked at a few full-timing budgets, just a glance and always seen places where we could comfortably make concessions to lower that amount if not eliminate it. Living simply is a sort of Godly principle that I was brought up with.

Technomadia · RV-Dreams Family Member

One of the advantages I love about life on the road is the flexibility it gives you. Unlike having a mortgage or rental agreement, your costs each month can change - and that change is mostly within your control.

Having a leaner month? You can find cheaper monthly rates at campgrounds, or even barter your time for a spot to park with amenities. Or you can go find boondocking opportunities to reduce expenses. You can choose to drive less miles, and reduce the fuel expenses.

Having a more abundant month? You can choose differently - fund a major repositioning, stay in a location that might cost more or even indulge in a more vacation style mode if you choose. Or, you can choose a path with minimal expenses and save that money away for a later date.

'Stuff' happens whether you are living on the road or stationary in a house. Health issues come up, things break, loved ones need your help. Having resources to deal with those things helps make them easier - whether that be savings, insurance, skills, tools, connections and/or an ability to manifest solutions.

In our nearly 8 years on the road we've lived at all sorts of expense levels - from keeping things very frugal to being more indulgent. We've had major repair expenses (thankfully we had an emergency fund ready and waiting to deal with an engine overhaul) and we've had health issues (we have high deductible plans, and keep our HSA funded). And we've had family emergencies that have required us needing to make a rapid major repositioning, and taking campsites with higher monthly rates than we prefer just to be nearby.

But all and all... life for us is much cheaper than our previous stationary lives, and we feel it suits us much more.

- Cherie

Russ Ranger · RV-Dreams Family Member

I would love to keep this thread on track. My original intensions was to ask for help in how to deal with the out of budget things that happen. I called it when "Life Happens".

I will put out one more strategy that we are using. Dental care can be a really big "Gotcha". I've talked with other RVers that faced dental expenses that exceeded $10,000.

Being retired we no longer have dental insurance. We found in the last 5 years of having insurance that the deductibles were so high that we weren't willing to use the benefits. Instead we choose to have our major dental work done while in Mexico. Each time it has saved us thousands and made dental care feasible.

Because so many of us that hit the road will be in the South at sometime during our yearly travels this may be a strategy to manage a potential big hit. There are hundreds if not thousands of dentists and dental practices just over the border that serve more Canadian and Americans than I ever imagined.

Life is good....let's treat our fellow posters with kindness.

-- Edited by Russ Ranger on Saturday 18th of January 2014 12:59:23 PM

WestWardHo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Cherie, you said it so well (again!),

This lifestyle allows us to make choices that are right for each of us with our various preferences and budgets. What's right for one is not necessarily right for anyone else.

Sherry

SnowGypsy · RV-Dreams Family Member

Russ Ranger: I have heard that the dental services in Mexico are a real money saver. We had a dentist and I was discussing this with him and he said that he had a few patients (snowbirds from KS) and that the dental work that he had seen that was done in Mexico was top notch. Of course, it is always good to get referrals just like one would here in the US. In every profession, you have people they are good and people that are not good at what they do. Another expense is optical services and I have realized that as you age, you don't want the "bargain" when it comes to an exam. We do order our glasses online and save a bundle, probably 60% at least. We use Zenni for the whole family which encompasses all sorts of vision issues. I had tried another online optical which was just bad so again, always look at reviews online. I know there are a lot of people not comfortable with ordering online and I really wasn't either but my husband and son are demolition experts when it comes to glasses so stepping outside our comfort area ended up saving us several hundred dollars in the last 3 or 4 years.

I would love to see some tips on saving on vet care services. Both of our dogs are seniors and having moved around, you can really get "sticker" shock with some places being double. In our current town, an office visit with medication for a urinary infection was $95.00 which is more than most people here make in a day! Then, the dog had a reaction to the medication........

-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Saturday 18th of January 2014 01:24:32 PM

Russ Ranger · RV-Dreams Family Member

We just adopted a puppy (Mexican Mutt) from the Mazatlan Humane Society where my wife and I volunteer during the Winter. We have experienced sticker shock in reverse. We took Eva for her first vet visit where we met the vet, the puppy had her first full exam and received her two shots. The vet spoke good English and we had a conversation about her future care.

It all took about 15 minutes and the bill was 270 pesos. In US dollars that was $20.52. We plan to have her spayed this year before we return to the states.

By the way I can go to a doctors office and visit a physician for a little less. 250 pesos is common for us humans. That would not include puppy shots for me.

Life is good.

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

250 pecos in my doctor visit would barely cover 1 Asprin and a pair of rubber gloves.......they even still have chains on there pens!!!!!

SnowGypsy · RV-Dreams Family Member

So, maybe that 2 years of high school Spanish will pay off in my future! So, if one can plan to swing through Mexico periodically, the savings in services could easily pay for the trip down. I have never crossed or been near the border although we lived in AZ a couple of times. AZ was expensive and I understand that has not changed so crossing the border for some services would make it more affordable. Love the desert!

Now, they claim that you can bargain for medical services although I have never been involved in such a transaction. I do know that if you pay cash at some clinics, you do get a discount. We had neighbors with insurance and the wife needed an operation that would not be covered for some reason and the cost at that time, in the mid-90's was $45,000 so they set up payments and she had the surgery which was successful. I would think that just being open about your financial situation, being comfortable in doing that, would go along way in coming with an answer to how to get what you need and be able to cover the bill.

There is a clinic in town that has medical/dental services on a sliding scale. It is federally funded and Sebelius just sent down a bundle of money to build a new one. I don't understand exactly what kind of facility it is. It is not the county health department but the county does contract with them to provide some services for those on public assistance, like WIC. I know they have a dental clinic like this in a county south of us. I wonder if they have these throughout the US and whether you have to be a resident of a certain county to use them if federally funded. I read an article but it did not fully explain how it works.

I have also discovered, at least in KS in the Wal-Marts where we have shopped that shopping during the week, the produce is cheaper than say Friday through Monday. Our weekend is Monday and Tuesday so this works well.

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

"I have also discovered, at least in KS in the Wal-Marts where we have shopped that shopping during the week, the produce is cheaper than say Friday through Monday." Interesting. I'll have to check that tomorrow and Wednesday when we're in Bolivar.

SnowGypsy · RV-Dreams Family Member

I should have said not all the produce, but those bin items like grapes, cherries, apples, etc. whatever is in season. It used to make me mad when I would shop on Sunday, have to return during the week and find the items so much cheaper. You do need to watch your cash register receipts as often the sales price is not the one that rings up and also there is an issue with double charges. In AL, it was so bad that myself and our RV neighbor wrote AR Headquarters to make a complaint. While $2 or $3 here and there doesn't seem like much, it adds up. I was overcharged $8.00 on bulk cherries!

Another thing I always do is return items that aren't right or don't hold up the way they should. All the stores choose whom they wish to buy from so if it is inferior/defective, they need to take the financial fall, not me. I cannot believe the number of people that tell me that they bought something and it wasn't any good so they just threw it away to avoid the hassle. While I won't go back in for a dime, unless I am still in the parking lot, other amounts add up. It is not just one retailer either. All these odds and ends add up! Especially watch clearance items also as you could easily pay a lot more than the marked price.

-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Saturday 18th of January 2014 07:41:02 PM

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

As Russ has requested, lets keep the comments on his original subject.

I've deleted a couple of comments where posters were "judgemental of each other." Lets try to avoid that kind of comment.

Terry

Moderator

Jake62 · RV-Dreams Family Member

The U.S. Census Bureau states that the "medium" U.S. household income in 2011 (the last most recent data I could find) was $50,502. The "average" income is more since it takes into account all the super rich, $69,821.

I know this question asks what's "Joe Average's" living expenses are on the road, but I think it's reassuring that many in this country earn at or below the medium income level and they enjoy the life God has given them, whether it's in an RV or S&B.

I'm sure there are those on this forum who earn above or well above the US medium income levels, as well as those who earn below the medium income level, but if you live within your means, your expenses will simply be adjusted to the level of income you are receiving.

If not, there are only three results: You either have savings every month from living below your means and your net worth grows; You are in debt every month, reducing your net worth; or, Your income and expenses are exactly the same (which is much more rare despite your best efforts to budget wisely) and your net worth is the same every month.

Since selling our residence last summer, our budget remains basically the same (renting now) (minus the house maintenance issues) and we will use this budget heading into retirement sometime next year, adjusting our "income" based upon our retirement accounts. The real change will simply be our "housing" line item expense, since we plan to purchase an RV debt free (Howard's best financial advice). I will be able to reduce my budget from what I'm paying in D.C. right now for rent (fairly substantial). However, instead of "rent", I need to increase my "RV diesel fuel" line-item ($0 now), "maintenance for the RV" line item ("$0" now to "much more"); and add campground rent, ($0 now). When I look at our budget now, our budget is a little less in retirement because of hitting the road, but it's not substantially less, but that's because I know what income we have coming in and feel comfortable with adjusting those numbers to ensure our net worth doesn't fall below a level we're comfortable with (note Howard's comfort level in his "money reserves" and everyone needs to establish their own "monetary reserve comfort level").

Great thread! Thanks Russ!

-- Edited by Jake62 on Sunday 19th of January 2014 08:04:45 AM

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

Good write-up Tim !!

For those looking it carries alot on the financial aspect of what it is out here.

Russ Ranger · RV-Dreams Family Member

Jake62,

To use a football term, "Great Color Commentary". (Seahawks play the 49ers today, go Seahawks) You put into words the process I've worked through for the last 2 years as a budgetholic. My poor wife had to live through teaching me the ins and outs of Excel. Than I became her worst nightmare as I crunched numbers to plan for early retirement.

We are now living and loving that plan.

After 44 years of work for me and 42 years for Terri, we think we like retirement.

Tim and Cindy, thanks for a great post.

Camper Chronicles · RV-Dreams Family Member

Russ Ranger wrote:
There were 1704 visitors that visited this site in the last 24 hours. By the nature of "RV Dreams" we can assume that many of these visitors are curious and looking for information that will help them make a decision about their future. People are considering selling their homes and almost all their possessions and making a major leap to their "dream". I know because that was our position for a couple years of lurking at this site before our leap in July 2013.
I want to say right now that I am grateful for the wealth of information that Howard and Linda provide to us all. It was the single most valuable tool in leading us through the process.
Now to stir the pot and get myself yelled at. Here is my basic question....What does it take for Joe Average to go fulltiming?

Hi Russ,

I read all the responses and thought I would tell you what it means for us. Not that I think I am average :)

Using Howard's budget template (great tool btw for anyone that wants to buy it) we put together three different budgets.

Subsistence living - $24K a year

Medium $ - $36K a year

High End - $50K a year

What was interesting was what we would have to give up at each level. Since health insurance costs slide based upon how much you make that was less of an issue than we thought, but I included $500 a month in all three budgets as a worst case scenario. The high end required an annual salary that made me pretty uncomfortable. the low end required sacrifices in day to day living that made me very uncomfortable. So currently we are trying to aim for the $36K mark. In addition to these budgets we will have $30K in contingency funds. Our departure date is based on me receiving a second bonus, finishing school, selling the house, and paying off our remaining $4K in credit card debt. Depending upon the amount we get for the house we may keep a small RV loan, but our goal is to be 100% debt free. The tough part as we go along will be replenishing our contingency as things occur. Since our costs are so low, that will require generating more income for the years that life happens to build it back up.

One other thing, we are taking steps this year to make ourselves as marketable as possible. I have met with some folks on starting my own consulting business and Lee is planning on going to RV Tech school and having a mini production suite in the RV to do promotional videos for folks while out on the road. We looked at our skills and have spent much time talking about how to turn those into revenue. We want flexibility in our new life so having more than one way to make money seems like a good idea. We have also done research on work camping opportunities and talked about what would make sense with our budget requirements.

NWescapee · RV-Dreams Family Member

I've read this thread and hesitated to comment as I don't think very many of you would consider us anywhere close to frugal or average. We're not retired, we're both still working and have been FT for 6 months. Many things motivated us to try this FT life and one of those was saving more for an eventual early retirement. Guess what? We're getting there!! Our nest egg is more now than it was after we sold our house and we're continuing to save more.

During our first 6 months, I've been tracking all of our expenses, and yes, we are at the higher end of average for campground fees and our miles travelled are a little higher, increasing our diesel costs. Why? We tend to stay a little closer to major metropolitan areas for longer periods of time than many of the other RV'ers which increases our camping fees. However, this was the tradeoff, Dale's art shows are generally in the larger city areas, my work requires that I need to travel a few times a year and therefore need to be able to easily get to an airport. We also are not fans of the RV parks so rarely take advantage of weekly or monthly rates, in fact the art show schedule would make monthly stays anywhere almost impossible.

Some of the other expenses that we had in the S&B are about the same on the road (Cell phone, insurance, groceries). Others increased, fuel is definitely more since we both worked from home before, we're putting more miles on the truck than we ever did before, but we no longer have a second car, so there's a tradeoff. RV maint has so far been higher than the last 2 years of home maint, hoping that slows down, our dining out budget has increased slightly due to grabbing meals on the go while traveling. Our enterainment budget is higher, we've had a lot of fun exploring museums, gardens, etc.

Overall our expenses have gone down, our monthly campground fees are still much less than the mortgage, property taxes, insurance, etc. and we're quickly adding to our retirement accounts. There are a lot of different budgets out there, a lot of different lifestyles and goals. In the RV Dreams Rally we attended in 2012, Howard continued to say over and over, there's no right way to FT. Everyone finds their own way.

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

I will bring this up because it does matter, but most do not post their yearly fulltime expenses, especially those who do spend more. First, most won't post them because they feel these numbers are private. It is just not something they feel comfortable sharing. Second, when you post numbers someone always has to be critical, so the posters are opening themselves up to uncomfortable situations. People start nitpicking, they question everything including is some item high or low, and if the numbers seem high to them, there are those out there who get nasty. This nastiness can be and often is in email or personal messaging, but on some forums it is public, very public. People start getting into fights on who spent the least, not thanking people for posting honestly.

Be careful or Terry will be deleting more comments.

-- Edited by bjoyce on Sunday 19th of January 2014 11:50:37 AM

-- Edited by bjoyce on Sunday 19th of January 2014 11:51:49 AM

-- Edited by bjoyce on Sunday 19th of January 2014 01:28:20 PM

Hdrider · RV-Dreams Family Member

We were very happy that we didn't receive one negative comment when we posted our 6 month and our 1 year expenses. But we have heard from others that they received some not so great response after posting numbers.
I just felt inclined to share because looking at others expenses helped us with at least an idea, taking into account that everyone is different.

Russ Ranger · RV-Dreams Family Member

Thank you,

Bill, Dale & Ruth, Trace you have each brought this thread back on track. There is valuable information we can share that will help others be successful in what ever they do with their RV life.

I'll throw out another tactic that we are using. I don't love banks. I have found two ways to make them part of my overall plan. They are helping me financially, paying for my RV lifestyle.

The first has to do with my personal medical plan. If things were to go sideways and I needed to be back to my home state quickly, Bank of America is going to pay for half the airlines cost to get us home. Our main credit card is an Alaska Airlines card. With this card we get a yearly "companion pass" that reduces the second fare to $99.00. We have been using this plan for years and it has saved us thousands of dollars during that time. Twice now we have used that companion pass to get to Mazatlan for Terri to have dental work. The airlines savings and the dental cost saving more than paid their way and we got a free vacation thrown in.

The second way I use my bank is really abusing them. This may apply to fewer people here because it has to do with Mexico. But I enjoy it so much I have to tell you. BofA has a banking relationship with Santander Bank here in Mexico. It allows me to use their cash machines for free. That free is very nice but the exchange rate is the amazing thing. It is always 6% to 7% better than any other way of receiving my retirement funds.

It feels so good having a bank give my monthly retirement a 6% bump. My cost...zero.

I love being frugal with my pennies and dollars.

-- Edited by Russ Ranger on Sunday 19th of January 2014 01:31:49 PM

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Let me add another factor as it may apply to some. It is a "plan" that Jo and I have once we actually get to start traveling.

Our plans are to go into a "region," say, southern Utah for instance and park long term. Long term could be anywhere from one month to 6 months, which would allow us the time to be seeing more of the attractions in that "region." Southern Utah would allow access to all 5 national parks in Utah, almost all of their state parks, and the attractions in northern Arizona (Grand Canyon, Antelope Canyon, Painted Desert) from our "home base."

By staying for a longer period, we wouldn't be expending the money for towing the fifth wheel every few days to a week or so to a new place. Instead, we'd use the F150 for sightseeing. Once we've decided that we've seen enough of a "region," we would simply move on to another region and explore that area.

Terry

Barbaraok · RV-Dreams Family Member

BOA also has a working relationship with Scotia Bank in the Canadian Maritimes. Used their ATMs for getting cash throughout Nova Scotia, etc.

Barb

WestWardHo · RV-Dreams Family Member

Russ,

Good info about the banks. Russ, love how you're actually making money "abusing" them! Creative ideas. Never thought of using a vet in Mexico either. And Barb, hadn't thought about Canadian bank access.
We have friends who get dental work done in done in Algodones, mexico and they are very happy and saved huge bucks. One had implants and caps - the works. Me? I'm terrified of dentists so I'm going back to the one I've found in my life that I feel safe with in Sedona for three more crowns on Friday and I pay retail less the 5% cash discount.

As Ruth & Cherie, reminded there is no one right way to full-time and we all make our own choices.

Bill, sorry to hear that many get flamed or PM'd about posting their financials.

We get and have received so many good ideas from people posting on this forum over time. Thanks to all who post - it expands our minds and perceptions.

Sherry

Sushidog · RV-Dreams Family Member

Be careful crossing the border with animals (Mexico or Canada). They might not let them back in, and in the worst cases quarantine or destroy the animal. The laws often require a vet visit before you go to certify the animal's health - so if your animal is sick you probably won't be allowed to cross the border with them.

Here's an article with some good links concerning the laws about border crossing with pets:
http://www.birdchannel.com/bird-magazines/bird-talk/2009-march/traveling-to-mexico3.aspx

Chip

Bill and Jodee · RV-Dreams Family Member

When I saw the title of the thread my first thought was "there's likely to be more comments from the different definitions of 'average' than the 'what does it take' question."

In my work-every-day world I strived to avoid "average" in many ways. It was both rewarding and exhausting. Now that I'm retired and looking forward to the freedom of life on the road, I find my "average" is a just fine place to be. It's my average, not someone else's.

Many thanks to those who post their actual expenses and to those who share just what they are comfortable disclosing. Whether you have more or less income than I do, it is up to me to listen to your input and to learn from it.

I never hear "this is the right and only way it can be done" here! Frugal? Good for you! Spend every dime you make and more? Good for you! If I'm judging I can't be learning.......and learning is why I come here.

Jodee

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

The nice part of being an average joe is........somedays you eat cat food, other days its cavier......but either way the cat loves your scent and will sit by the fire with you if its not to close!!

azrving · RV-Dreams Family Member

NWescapee wrote:

Overall our expenses have gone down, our monthly campground fees are still much less than the mortgage, property taxes, insurance, etc. and we're quickly adding to our retirement accounts. There are a lot of different budgets out there, a lot of different lifestyles and goals. In the RV Dreams Rally we attended in 2012, Howard continued to say over and over, there's no right way to FT. Everyone finds their own way.

NWescapee,

That pretty much sums it up; there is no one size fits all. The original post may have scared off someone who was dreaming of making a lifestyle change. We shouldn't assume everyone lives the same lifestyle and to scare people away from the full time RVing by stating you may need $39,000 + per year was a little over the top. I too appreciate people taking the time to post their financials; this is helpful to others that may want to live the full time dream. You can add to their budgets or (like in my case>) you can see tons of places to cut back and save.

Sometimes it seems like we take a lot of the S&B trappings & expenses with us when we would actually be better off to leave them along with the house aka: anchor. A co-worker of ours now lives full-time in his motor-home and he pays under $2000 per year for his RV spot near Phoenix, AZ. His lot includes water, sewer, & trash pickup and I'm quite certain he doesn't spend another $37,000 on electric, food, etc. It's not the Ritz Carlton but it suits him fine. biggrin

If you have a dream, live it, don't let people tell you can't full-time on $10,000 or less per year, it's up to you and where there's a will there's a way. If you want to spend a million a year full timing, go for it but don't tell the guy with 10,000 he can't or shouldn't. Yes, we should all prepare for emergencies but don't put your life on hold worrying about what might or could happen, you will figure it out when the time comes.

Great thread Russ Ranger, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and giving the rest of us a chance to share our thoughts too. biggrin

MarkS · RV-Dreams Family Member

We once did an experiment to see how cheaply we could eat well. We found some great recipes that were inexpensive to make and were both good and healthy. One rule was, it could not be packaged food. It had to be fresh. I don't care much for a slab of meat, a vegetable and a potato. I would much rather have a casserole or a pasta dish. We even make our enchilada sauce from scratch. Shopping at grocery outlets and dollar stores can help stretch a dollar.

Don't take me wrong, I'm not cheap, I drive a BMW. But, I enjoy working on a puzzle. Like, what if tomorrow my income was cut. How much would it cost to survive. I could certainly get by without my fancy car. I must admit that when we begin FT we will drive a Mercedes. Well, half of one (Smart). We have given thought to what the costs could be/will be. What our income might look like. What our must pays versus our discretionary spending will look like. I believe the biggest variable is RV costs. You can spend nearly nothing to your lottery winnings. Build some scenarios around the things you think you must have and figure out what you project your costs to be.

Nobody can do that better than you.

kb0zke · RV-Dreams Family Member

I suspect that most full-timers have put pencil to paper prior to heading off to make sure that there is at least some chance of financially surviving the adventure. Many thanks to those who have shared various numbers because your generosity has made it easier for others to decide "Yes, we can do this" or "No, we can't do it that way. We need to figure out something else."

Yes, there are many definitions of "average" and most of us feel we are pretty average, yet we are quite different. We will be starting our adventure in a 21-year-old DP with a two-year-old toad. Others are driving coaches that cost three times what our two vehicles cost new, and they consider themselves average, too. Still others are driving an HDT that carries a small car and tows a huge 5'er, and don't forget about those who are full-timing on a pair of motorcycles pulling tiny trailers. Each one considers themselves to be "average."

I suspect, though, that if one ignores the purchase prices, and just looks at maintenance costs we would find that there isn't a huge difference between a new $1.5 million Newell and a 1988 'Bird. The Newell won't need tires, batteries, or any other major items for a few years, but eventually those purchases will happen. The tire isn't priced based on the current price for the coach. If both coaches take the same tire both owners will pay the same. The difference is that when we purchased our coach we knew that certain things would need to be taken care of fairly soon, and we budgeted for that. That meant that we didn't spend our full budget on purchasing the coach, some was kept back for repairs and upgrades. A new coach won't have those costs immediately, but they are still coming. The owners just have to plan for them.

The same is true for every other class of RV. It would be nice if everyone used the same method of tracking maintenance, repair, and upgrade expenses and then shared those numbers with others with the same class of RV, but that isn't going to happen. Reading this forum and a brand-specific one can help one get at least a ballpark guess for what the life will cost.

Terry and Jo · RV-Dreams Family Member

azrving wrote:

Sometimes it seems like we take a lot of the S&B trappings & expenses with us when we would actually be better off to leave them along with the house aka: anchor. A co-worker of ours now lives full-time in his motor-home and he pays under $2000 per year for his RV spot near Phoenix, AZ. His lot includes water, sewer, & trash pickup and I'm quite certain he doesn't spend another $37,000 on electric, food, etc. It's not the Ritz Carlton but it suits him fine.

I forgot one thing in my earlier post that Mark just reminded me of with the above comment. If one is going to be in an area for an extended time and wants to save some money, check and see if any local mobile home parks have spots for RV's. We are currently in one in Oklahoma City that is less than $200 a month, which includes water and sewer and a dumpster for trash. (By contrast, Twin Fountains RV Park, which is right next door, charges almost $600 per month.) Other mobile home parks in the OKC area range from $250 to $350 per month.

Who knows, maybe some of those mobile home parks "rent space" for short term periods that may benefit a traveler.

Terry

bjoyce · RV-Dreams Family Member

A couple somewhat out-of-date lists of expenses of other fulltimers, http://www.happy-wanderers.com/monthly-expenses and http://www.adventure.1tree.net/index.php/rv-living/finances/five-years-of-expenses. These might help some of you.

Lucky Mike · RV-Dreams Family Member

there are people out here RVing on 10 to 12k a year using only SSI funds!! and have been out here for years.....like its been said , its just doing within your means

SnowGypsy · RV-Dreams Family Member

I asked for the post to be reviewed that I had made since I was personally attacked for making the statement. What makes me more touchy is that I don't need to be reminded that we aren't "average". Escapees also started out as a place for everyone, the same idea I think as this website was , but that changed over the years. The ones that started Escapees seemed like the most wonderful people and I once got a personal response from the lady although I don't recall her name at the moment. I really hope that this forum doesn't go the way of Escapees where families are shunned and people told to "earn" being able to full-time by working until you have a retirement funds available. Gee I got sick of hearing that and we didn't renew our membership. We just aren't a fit here either and I know it. No big deal. This is my last post. Good luck to everyone in their adventures.

Jake62 · RV-Dreams Family Member

I thought this was a decent thread started by Russ ... I must have missed something here. In reviewing this thread, I'm not exactly sure how SnowGypsy was offended and by whom. Nonetheless, I hope no one is judged by the income they make or their family status. Otherwise, these forums can and do get out of control.

Thanks again Russ for a thought provoking thread.