The wife and I are considering moving from a 5er to a MH to accommodate some health issues (being able to access a WARM bathroom while on the road is important). We are looking for something in the 35-38' range and wondering if we should go Diesel or gas? We will likely go late model used in either case.
I like the power or the Diesel, but I am concerned about some things I hear on the maintenance issues of the pusher configuration. The newer gas chassis (W24) seems to offer excellent capacity and reasonable performance. So, I would love to hear from folks who are already using these types of coaches for fulltime use.
Many thanks!
Rick
bjoyce said
09:28 AM Nov 13, 2006
You are asking a common question and you will probably find it has already been answered in the forum somewhere. We had a 35' gas motorhome on a W22 chassis (a 2002 National RV Dolphin) and the chassis part was fine, it was the house part that we wanted better made. We had the money to buy a middle range diesel pusher, a 40' Newmar Dutch Star, which met our requirements. All of the low end diesel's did not. We wanted thicker insulation than we had, that cut out most of the low end diesels. We wanted solid wood cabinets, most were the same easy to wear off veneers in our Dolphin.
If we would have had a choice of going for a low end diesel or staying with our gas motorhome we would have stayed with the gas motorhome. It had good carrying capacity and we were not overweight, something you have to watch for both diesel and gas. It climbed the hills well enough. We added $3000 in suspension changes to make it ride better, many of these changes are now standard in the W24 and W25.5.
Benefits of diesel: larger fuel tank and you can fuel with the trucks, more power over hills, air suspension (some low end diesels do not have this, including the FRED).
Benefits of gas: cheaper maintenance, cheaper price, less overall weight (you stay under 26,000lbs and under those truck rules.)
There are nice gas motorhomes out there, you have to look. There are many more not so nice diesels, you also have to look. Make sure you have 3,000lbs of CCC (it is on a label in the motorhome, don't use NCC for comparisons). CCC is Cargo Carrying Capacity and includes water, fuel, propane and passengers, while NCC is without the cargo.
RickC said
11:22 AM Nov 13, 2006
bjoyce
This was exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I had not thought of the solid wood cabinetry, although that is something I would like (we have the wrapped particle board now and notice it is hard to repair).
I was also interested in your comment on "truck rules" -- that is a new one to me. Are there special requirements for coaches over 26,000 pounds?
Thanks again for your insights.
Tmcblane said
03:22 PM Nov 13, 2006
To the best of my knowledge, the 26,000 lb deal is for commercial trucks and RV's are exempted from that . Obviously do you own checking but I believe that is what you will find.
I feel that the diesel is the way to go, they last longer , get better fuel milage and have way more power. Upkeep is little more than a gas'er. They drive better and don't get pushed around by other trucks. Now if you are only going to be using it on weekends or only a couple of years that would be a different story. Plan on $40k over a gas'er coach.
bjoyce said
05:50 PM Nov 13, 2006
In Texas and some other states you need a special non-commercial license if you are over 26,000 lbs. A stickler fuel attendant in Arizona can also charge you 8c more per gallon if they want to be nasty. I am sure there are other examples, but 26,000 seems to be the cut off.
Just to answer some of the issues: How many motorhomes run over 250,000 miles, lasting longer is not really an issue. Unleaded is now enough cheaper than diesel that my old gas motorhome cost less per mile even though the miles per gallon was lower. Those suspension changes in our gas motorhome kept us from getting pushed around so much by trucks. We used to pass alot of diesels going uphill with our gas motorhome, there are many whimpy diesels out there bought by people with diesel envy.
Anyway we own a diesel now and are happy, but there is much more to consider than just what engine you have. We spent the money for a good one.
People pulling 5ers can choose their engine separately from the RV, once you go motorhome you are stuck with what the manufacturers put together.
-- Edited by bjoyce at 18:57, 2006-11-13
Tmcblane said
06:04 PM Nov 13, 2006
Bjoyce, I was not aware of the special licenses for over 26 k. That is interesting. Seems it would be only a lucky guess for an attendant to say you are over 26k just to charge you .08 cents more for fuel. He would have to be having an either slow or bad day. :)
Tmcblane said
06:06 PM Nov 13, 2006
I should have mentioned that my opinions were not just that but we owned a diesel pusher just prior to going to the 5th wheel. We loved the pusher but there was not the space we needed or wanted.
bjoyce said
07:39 PM Nov 13, 2006
We have not encountered a problem in Arizona being over 26,000lbs and getting taxed at 8c higher. Most treat it as a commercial tax on trucks over 26,000lbs since it exempts buses. We do know someone who did pay it once because the attendant told them it was the law. Next time they used pay at the pump.
RVDude said
10:01 PM Nov 13, 2006
Another way to look at this is to ask yourself where you want to spend your money. In general, a diesel chassis costs more than a gas one. It's all a trade-off and a difficult one at that. Try to list your priorities. If you have a certain budget in mind, how much of that budget do you want to go to chassis (diesel, gas, a really good diesel, a really good gas, etc..) and how much to the coach (wood, counters, fit-n-finish, appliances, etc..). Ask yourself, which is more important: Having the best of the low end or having the entry point of the high-end. These thoughts might help you frame the myriad of choices you'll make in your rig selection. I'll further compound your decision by defining the word "budget" I used above to mean BOTH the dollar budget AND the weight budget! Your choices in both chassis and the coach will significantly influence each other. For example, the choice of that marble floor weighs (and costs) a whole lot more than carpet. That yearning for a Cat15 equipped Spartan K3 chassis can carry that weight but it costs a whale of a lot more than that V10 equipped UFO chassis which might be all you need to carry your carpet.
Try making a list of what's important to you and then look at your priority order based on cost and then again on weight. It might help your choice. It is guaranteed to help your migraines!
bjoyce said
08:23 PM Nov 14, 2006
RVDude has said what the rest of us should have said, which is to figure out your own priorities. All of us have opinions on what works for us, but that might not be what works for you.
Research, go to RV shows, read reviews, drive some and that will show you what they look like with the slides in. Pay attention to construction and insulation. Can you hear the outside noise with the doors and windows closed? Find and read those weight stickers and don't buy anything with low carrying capacity (3,000lbs for two people is a good number for full-timers). Read each recommendation, including mine, with a grain of salt.
An aside: We are big fans of being at least usable with the slides in. You stop for lunch at picnic area that isn't level, it is nice to be able to make lunch, clean up afterwards and use the toilet. You stop at Wal-Mart or other places for the night and can look just like you are parked. You can park next to someone in a mobile home court for the night where you do not have room to put out slides, my mother lives in a place like that. In very windy weather it is good to have the slides in, less motion. Others don't seem to care if they can be usable with all the slides in.
You are asking a common question and you will probably find it has already been answered in the forum somewhere. We had a 35' gas motorhome on a W22 chassis (a 2002 National RV Dolphin) and the chassis part was fine, it was the house part that we wanted better made. We had the money to buy a middle range diesel pusher, a 40' Newmar Dutch Star, which met our requirements. All of the low end diesel's did not. We wanted thicker insulation than we had, that cut out most of the low end diesels. We wanted solid wood cabinets, most were the same easy to wear off veneers in our Dolphin.
If we would have had a choice of going for a low end diesel or staying with our gas motorhome we would have stayed with the gas motorhome. It had good carrying capacity and we were not overweight, something you have to watch for both diesel and gas. It climbed the hills well enough. We added $3000 in suspension changes to make it ride better, many of these changes are now standard in the W24 and W25.5.
Benefits of diesel: larger fuel tank and you can fuel with the trucks, more power over hills, air suspension (some low end diesels do not have this, including the FRED).
Benefits of gas: cheaper maintenance, cheaper price, less overall weight (you stay under 26,000lbs and under those truck rules.)
There are nice gas motorhomes out there, you have to look. There are many more not so nice diesels, you also have to look. Make sure you have 3,000lbs of CCC (it is on a label in the motorhome, don't use NCC for comparisons). CCC is Cargo Carrying Capacity and includes water, fuel, propane and passengers, while NCC is without the cargo.
This was exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I had not thought of the solid wood cabinetry, although that is something I would like (we have the wrapped particle board now and notice it is hard to repair).
I was also interested in your comment on "truck rules" -- that is a new one to me. Are there special requirements for coaches over 26,000 pounds?
Thanks again for your insights.
I feel that the diesel is the way to go, they last longer , get better fuel milage and have way more power. Upkeep is little more than a gas'er. They drive better and don't get pushed around by other trucks. Now if you are only going to be using it on weekends or only a couple of years that would be a different story. Plan on $40k over a gas'er coach.
In Texas and some other states you need a special non-commercial license if you are over 26,000 lbs. A stickler fuel attendant in Arizona can also charge you 8c more per gallon if they want to be nasty. I am sure there are other examples, but 26,000 seems to be the cut off.
Just to answer some of the issues: How many motorhomes run over 250,000 miles, lasting longer is not really an issue. Unleaded is now enough cheaper than diesel that my old gas motorhome cost less per mile even though the miles per gallon was lower. Those suspension changes in our gas motorhome kept us from getting pushed around so much by trucks. We used to pass alot of diesels going uphill with our gas motorhome, there are many whimpy diesels out there bought by people with diesel envy.
Anyway we own a diesel now and are happy, but there is much more to consider than just what engine you have. We spent the money for a good one.
People pulling 5ers can choose their engine separately from the RV, once you go motorhome you are stuck with what the manufacturers put together.
-- Edited by bjoyce at 18:57, 2006-11-13
We have not encountered a problem in Arizona being over 26,000lbs and getting taxed at 8c higher. Most treat it as a commercial tax on trucks over 26,000lbs since it exempts buses. We do know someone who did pay it once because the attendant told them it was the law. Next time they used pay at the pump.
Another way to look at this is to ask yourself where you want to spend your money. In general, a diesel chassis costs more than a gas one. It's all a trade-off and a difficult one at that. Try to list your priorities. If you have a certain budget in mind, how much of that budget do you want to go to chassis (diesel, gas, a really good diesel, a really good gas, etc..) and how much to the coach (wood, counters, fit-n-finish, appliances, etc..). Ask yourself, which is more important: Having the best of the low end or having the entry point of the high-end. These thoughts might help you frame the myriad of choices you'll make in your rig selection. I'll further compound your decision by defining the word "budget" I used above to mean BOTH the dollar budget AND the weight budget! Your choices in both chassis and the coach will significantly influence each other. For example, the choice of that marble floor weighs (and costs) a whole lot more than carpet. That yearning for a Cat15 equipped Spartan K3 chassis can carry that weight but it costs a whale of a lot more than that V10 equipped UFO chassis which might be all you need to carry your carpet.
Try making a list of what's important to you and then look at your priority order based on cost and then again on weight. It might help your choice. It is guaranteed to help your migraines!
RVDude has said what the rest of us should have said, which is to figure out your own priorities. All of us have opinions on what works for us, but that might not be what works for you.
Research, go to RV shows, read reviews, drive some and that will show you what they look like with the slides in. Pay attention to construction and insulation. Can you hear the outside noise with the doors and windows closed? Find and read those weight stickers and don't buy anything with low carrying capacity (3,000lbs for two people is a good number for full-timers). Read each recommendation, including mine, with a grain of salt.
An aside: We are big fans of being at least usable with the slides in. You stop for lunch at picnic area that isn't level, it is nice to be able to make lunch, clean up afterwards and use the toilet. You stop at Wal-Mart or other places for the night and can look just like you are parked. You can park next to someone in a mobile home court for the night where you do not have room to put out slides, my mother lives in a place like that. In very windy weather it is good to have the slides in, less motion. Others don't seem to care if they can be usable with all the slides in.