We got back from the RV Show in Hershey last week with more questions than we went with.
Now we are considering going with a gas powered Class A instead of diesel (mainly for the price difference). We could full time for a year or more with the difference in price, but are not sure if we would be as happy with the the things we would have to give up for gas.
We are looking for a 39 or 40 footer and think that will be a stretch for gas. Also the engine braking and air ride are something to consider. We will probably travel 10,000 plus miles a year and hope to full time for a long, long time.
Any opinions???
Roy
bjoyce said
07:31 PM Sep 23, 2006
Having owned both a 35' gas motorhome and a 40' diesel motorhome I would recommend not going above about 37' for gas due to the lower GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). By the time you get above 37' you pretty much need a GVWR above 27,000lbs to have any carrying capacity and gas stops at 25,500lbs with the latest chassis. But, there are some nice models in the 37' and under range and would work just fine. Watch those weight stickers, you want 1500lbs per person as a full-timer or 3,000 lbs of Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC) for a couple. CCC includes fuel, water and the passengers, NCC (Net Carrying Capacity) does not.
Conversely I don't like diesel pushers below about 34', the overhang for the engine is a problem.
Air ride is nice, you can get it retrofitted for gas rigs (HWH) and I think Workhorse now has it as an option. The front-engine diesels do not have air ride or brakes. For a range of $2,000 to $3,500 you can retrofit most gas motorhomes into having a pretty nice ride with better shocks, sway bars, steering dampers, and/or track bars. Many gas motorhomes now come with some of these already built in. Drive them as-is, you might find you do not need air ride.
I think the latest Workhorse chassis use transmission braking, which feels like engine braking and is a tried and true system used on some diesel motorhomes like Foretravel. It is nice to have engine braking or equivalent going down the big grades, like some of the long 12 and 16 mile ones in the SW (Kingman, AZ to Laughlin, NV or Cloudcroft, NM to Alamogordo, NM). But many take them all the time without engine braking, they just go slow. Remember a gas engine has much more engine braking built-in than a diesel.
The big issues that had us move to diesel was we got better interior materials like solid wood with the models we were interested in so they would last many years. There were many diesels with veneers that would wear quickly and thin closet doors and some gas motorhomes with solid wood and high quality materials. The other issue was we could fuel up with the trucks and less often since the fuel tank was larger. Many gas stations are motorhome hostile in design, especially with a tow car attached since you cannot back up.
There are many who are very happy with gas motorhomes and full-timing. We could afford to move to a diesel and had our reasons, but our gas motorhome was fine.
mikeway said
09:30 PM Sep 23, 2006
A lot of the decision will depend on personal preferences in the end.
What bjoyce says is straight up across the board. I often find the gas motorhomes not sure of what they are. For example, Safari has three new gas models in their line; a class C, a class B, and gas powered class A. But they can't seem to decide on the class A. This one model comes as a front engine toy hauler, a rear engine gas model and a new diesel. When I compared the models across the board, at a rally, the gas models seemed to be a little less well finished.
We bought a 4 year old diesel when we bought for a variety of reasons. One was depreciation from new price. Another was, after a couple of years, the bugs were worked out. I think I would have to be awfully well to do to purchase new, our 4 year old model had only 9,000 miles on it and a ton-and-a-half plus payload.
Mike
ahoweth said
11:59 AM Oct 28, 2006
We also have owned both a gas coach, 36 foot, and a diesel pusher, 40 foot. What bjoyce said is right on the money but he left one thing out that was the difference maker for me and that is power. There simply are no gas engines available on the market with the torque it takes to adequately move a larger unit the way it should be moved. Of course this is a personal thing and if it doesn't bother you, okay, but I was worn out trying to push that gas unit down the road. The largest torque numbers in gasoline engines are around the 400 lbsft number. The diesels, even the smaller ones, are 600 lbsft and up, ours produces just under 1000 lbsft. Now that is a substantial difference, and make no mistake you CAN feel the difference. My fuel mileage is about the same as it was with gasoline to boot. Over 50K miles and 5 years, we have averaged 8.5 mpg. With the diesel compared to 7.5 mpg with the gasoline unit.
I have found a significant difference in engine braking available with a diesel. Also we had to learn a mental adjustment to braking philosophy with the diesel. On long descents the brakes are used to keep your unit from speeding up not to slow it down. Sounds like double talk but it makes a big difference in how the brakes are applied and consequently in how much heat is generated. The rule is finite and mustn't be broken, start out slow down the hill and stay slow or your brakes will pay the price. If you remember that there is typically few problems.
Fueling up with the trucks is a huge relief to me. I have gotten stuck in a lot of gas stations and had to unhook my toad to get out. That doesn't happen in the trucker lanes. You just have to learn the rules of using the truckers lanes. The vast majority of them are envious so don't rub it in. They are working you aren't!
We got back from the RV Show in Hershey last week with more questions than we went with.
Now we are considering going with a gas powered Class A instead of diesel (mainly for the price difference). We could full time for a year or more with the difference in price, but are not sure if we would be as happy with the the things we would have to give up for gas.
We are looking for a 39 or 40 footer and think that will be a stretch for gas. Also the engine braking and air ride are something to consider. We will probably travel 10,000 plus miles a year and hope to full time for a long, long time.
Any opinions???
Roy
Having owned both a 35' gas motorhome and a 40' diesel motorhome I would recommend not going above about 37' for gas due to the lower GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). By the time you get above 37' you pretty much need a GVWR above 27,000lbs to have any carrying capacity and gas stops at 25,500lbs with the latest chassis. But, there are some nice models in the 37' and under range and would work just fine. Watch those weight stickers, you want 1500lbs per person as a full-timer or 3,000 lbs of Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC) for a couple. CCC includes fuel, water and the passengers, NCC (Net Carrying Capacity) does not.
Conversely I don't like diesel pushers below about 34', the overhang for the engine is a problem.
Air ride is nice, you can get it retrofitted for gas rigs (HWH) and I think Workhorse now has it as an option. The front-engine diesels do not have air ride or brakes. For a range of $2,000 to $3,500 you can retrofit most gas motorhomes into having a pretty nice ride with better shocks, sway bars, steering dampers, and/or track bars. Many gas motorhomes now come with some of these already built in. Drive them as-is, you might find you do not need air ride.
I think the latest Workhorse chassis use transmission braking, which feels like engine braking and is a tried and true system used on some diesel motorhomes like Foretravel. It is nice to have engine braking or equivalent going down the big grades, like some of the long 12 and 16 mile ones in the SW (Kingman, AZ to Laughlin, NV or Cloudcroft, NM to Alamogordo, NM). But many take them all the time without engine braking, they just go slow. Remember a gas engine has much more engine braking built-in than a diesel.
The big issues that had us move to diesel was we got better interior materials like solid wood with the models we were interested in so they would last many years. There were many diesels with veneers that would wear quickly and thin closet doors and some gas motorhomes with solid wood and high quality materials. The other issue was we could fuel up with the trucks and less often since the fuel tank was larger. Many gas stations are motorhome hostile in design, especially with a tow car attached since you cannot back up.
There are many who are very happy with gas motorhomes and full-timing. We could afford to move to a diesel and had our reasons, but our gas motorhome was fine.
What bjoyce says is straight up across the board. I often find the gas motorhomes not sure of what they are. For example, Safari has three new gas models in their line; a class C, a class B, and gas powered class A. But they can't seem to decide on the class A. This one model comes as a front engine toy hauler, a rear engine gas model and a new diesel. When I compared the models across the board, at a rally, the gas models seemed to be a little less well finished.
We bought a 4 year old diesel when we bought for a variety of reasons. One was depreciation from new price. Another was, after a couple of years, the bugs were worked out. I think I would have to be awfully well to do to purchase new, our 4 year old model had only 9,000 miles on it and a ton-and-a-half plus payload.
Mike
We also have owned both a gas coach, 36 foot, and a diesel pusher, 40 foot. What bjoyce said is right on the money but he left one thing out that was the difference maker for me and that is power. There simply are no gas engines available on the market with the torque it takes to adequately move a larger unit the way it should be moved. Of course this is a personal thing and if it doesn't bother you, okay, but I was worn out trying to push that gas unit down the road. The largest torque numbers in gasoline engines are around the 400 lbsft number. The diesels, even the smaller ones, are 600 lbsft and up, ours produces just under 1000 lbsft. Now that is a substantial difference, and make no mistake you CAN feel the difference. My fuel mileage is about the same as it was with gasoline to boot. Over 50K miles and 5 years, we have averaged 8.5 mpg. With the diesel compared to 7.5 mpg with the gasoline unit.
I have found a significant difference in engine braking available with a diesel. Also we had to learn a mental adjustment to braking philosophy with the diesel. On long descents the brakes are used to keep your unit from speeding up not to slow it down. Sounds like double talk but it makes a big difference in how the brakes are applied and consequently in how much heat is generated. The rule is finite and mustn't be broken, start out slow down the hill and stay slow or your brakes will pay the price. If you remember that there is typically few problems.
Fueling up with the trucks is a huge relief to me. I have gotten stuck in a lot of gas stations and had to unhook my toad to get out. That doesn't happen in the trucker lanes. You just have to learn the rules of using the truckers lanes. The vast majority of them are envious so don't rub it in.