What about those warranty disclaimers for full-timing?
Howard said
05:54 AM Aug 21, 2006
In the past, Linda and I have gotten this question several times. Why do the manufacturers build specific models clearly with full-timing in mind and then say their warranties are not valid for full-time use?
My response has always been that the best manufacturers will stand behind their warranties for full-timers. The disclaimer is something the legal departments require. However, the manufacturers are most likely to take care of their full-timing customers because there is no one better for sales than a happy full-timer. The loyalty and word of mouth potential is tremendous.
With that said, Tom n Gina just posted the following in another topic and I just had to copy it and place it here. They got the information straight from the manufacturer:
Hi,
I have been researching different models and manufactures for almost a year. We have decided on the Montana 3400RL for the most part. After looking at what must have been over 200 floor plans we liked what the Montana offered in the way of counter space and other options for the $$. One thing I found was the fact that they state they do not warranty if the rig is used full time. Hmmmmm, why would they build a rig so perfect for full time then not warranty there product? This just didn't add up for a company to build something that nice and so liveable then not stand behind it!
Not making any sense, I called the factory and talked to them about the disclosure they make when they talk about full time. I was refered to the Midwest rep for Keystone and asked him why they would do that. He informed me that they would indeed stand behind any private party that purchased their product for full time. However the legal guy's for the company had them put that in because of possibility of people purchasing them for rental use and abuse. I trust what this person had to say and he assured me that if I did purchase their 5er they would stand behind it.
I would call the factory and ask them what their policy is when it comes to private use full time. Then I would choose what fits you best. I believe that when it comes to customer support they would all like to keep their jobs. I also believe that if they get a bad reputation because of something small like standing behind what they build why do they need to build it? The factory guy also told me that they very much like to hear from full timers that live in their products so they can make the needed adjustments to better the product. One of the things they are very interested in making an option in the future is a dehumidifier. This is because of imput from persons just like us.
Fabulous post! Thanks!
Jack Mayer said
08:59 AM Aug 21, 2006
Plus, if you are a fulltimer, you are going to be going back to many different dealers for warranty work. How in the world would they ever know how the unit is being used. You could just be on an extended vacation. I doubt you would ever be asked. Plus most warranties are only for a year - I would not sweat it.
dreamjosie said
08:46 PM Aug 26, 2006
Any manufacturer putting a disclaimer against fulltiming in their warranty is giving you a message. It is that they don't think the quality of their unit will stand up to fulltime use. I would think long and hard before I bought their units to use fulltiming.
sfischer said
10:49 AM Oct 17, 2006
I am of the same opinion as DreamJosie on this one.
Would you trust what the manufacturer's rep. "told" you over what is written in their own literature? Not me.
Sorry, but if they don't feel strongly enough about their product to put it in writing, them I'm going to infer that the rig is not suited to fulltime use and should a problem occur in the future that they will fall back on their written warranty. (Maybe not true in the interest of "goodwill", but it certainly gives them an out.)
Jo And Craig said
01:20 PM Jul 29, 2012
It might just be my lengthy legal background, but whatever is put in writing is, pretty much, to the manufacturer's advantage. This allows them to honor "warranty" work only if it is absolutely covered by the warranty (no question), or if they are feeling generous on any given day. If you have (or get) a very good dealer and can make it back from your "extended" vacation for repairs/warranty work, things could go your way. If, however, you have a crotchety rep at a questionable dealership, you may not fair as well. I (and, I believe, Carol) have recently looked at the Columbus by Palomino. I absolutely LOVE the layout, decor, etc., but the underbelly/walls/roof, etc. are of utmost importance for full-timing. Now I am reconsidering. Terry and Jo have a DRV Mobile Suites and Terry suggested I take a look at those. Well, I have absolutely fallen in love with so many things about DRV, not to mention the manufacturer will even work with you on customizing, among other things. The purpose of this post is to make known what Forest River has to say about their warranty when it comes to full-timing, for those who are still researching.
USE YOUR NEW RECREATIONAL VEHICLE RESPONSIBLY. YOUR CAMPER WAS NOT DESIGNED TO BE USED AS A PERMANENT DWELLING, BUT FOR SHORT TERM AND RECREATIONAL USE. IF YOU INTEND TO USE YOUR RV AS PERMANENT HOUSING, BE ADVISED THAT IT COULD CAUSE PREMATURE WEAR ON YOUR APPLIANCES, FURNACE, WATER SYSTEMS, CARPET, DRAPES, UPHOLSTERY, BEDDING AND INTERIOR SURFACES. THIS PREMATURE WEAR CAUSED BY PERMANENT RESIDENCY MAY BE CONSIDERED ABNORMAL OR ABUSIVE USE, AND COULD REDUCE OR IN SOME CASES, VOID YOUR WARRANTY COVERAGE.
Even if one chooses not to reveal the fact that they full-time, this information makes me wonder if the Columbus is for me. Further, I do not want to make such a major investment just to find out later the unit may not hold up. I want something solid! So, Terry, I know you have posted much on DRV warranties, but can you expound on how DRV feels about full-timing and, again, what their warranty covers? So far, it seems their warranty is above and beyond the rest. I know DRV touts full-timing in their brochures, but more specific information might be helpful to those of us who are researching like crazy.
Many thanks!
-- Edited by Mary Sunshine on Sunday 29th of July 2012 01:24:53 PM
Terry and Jo said
04:47 AM Jul 30, 2012
Jo,
DRV Suites also has a good reputation with regards to owners concerns, even after the warranty has run out. I know of some cases where they even covered some repairs even after the owner's warranty ran out. I won't say that will do that with everyone, but they do have a good reputation with the owners of their products.
I suggest that if a brand interests anyone that one should check to see if there are any owner's associations with forums. We did that with a lot of the brands that attracted our interest. Keep in mind that forums will naturally attract people who are looking for the solution to a problem with their RV. Also keep in mind that for all the numbers of complaints, there are probably a lot more woners that aren't having the same problems. I have no evidence of this, but I'd bet that happy owners far outweigh unhappy ones.
As for DRV Suites forum sources, there are two. The first is Suites Owners International Travel Club which is an association made up of owners but anyone can register for and participate with the SOITC forums. Membership within the association does require being an owner of a DRV Suites product, but that is not relevant to the forums. We were on their forums for 2 years with questions and comments prior to us buying out Mobile Suites.
The second one is 5th Wheel Forums, which is just a forum and not an owner's association. However, like all forums, one does have to register to make comments or ask questions. Reading is free and informative.
I agree with those who've said that if a warranty states it will be invalid under certain conditions, you can't be sure it will stand, regardless of any oral assurances provided by the company's agents. I've submitted a question as follow-up to the above release asking whether the Bighorn warranty includes a disclaimer for full-timing and will post a response if/when I get one.
jayc said
02:06 PM Jul 31, 2012
Sally, not only is the Bighorn line warranted for full time use, the Big Country as well as the Landmark are also covered for full timers. The Landmark line now has a 2 year warranty.
RunsWithScissors said
08:39 PM Jul 31, 2012
Jay, this is really good to know. We'll be adding Heartland to our "short list" of manufacturers to check out at the Florida RV show this coming January.
Sally
Rob_Fla said
02:57 AM Aug 1, 2012
Our Jayco Pinnacle has a 2 year warranty on it. I also did some research into the "Full Time" exclusion. I have talked to a lot of RVers and I have not found anybody that Jayco has been denied warranty due to fulltime living in their RV.
I agree the furniture in many RVs is not the greatest (we gave our Recliners to our Daughter and went to the furniture store and bought a very nice Lane Seating unit that we use daily)
We think our Jayco has soild construction, no OSB in the floor construction, all solid cherry hardwood in the cabinets and stiles. The appliances in our Jayco (Stove, Refigerator, A/C Units, Water Heater, TV's, Toilet, Fireplace, Slide Systems, etc) are the same units used is RVs that have the "Full Time" listing.
Our Pinnacle is built by a 40 year old company that we think will be there if we need them.
Bottom line, it works for us!!!
kb0zke said
03:36 AM Aug 1, 2012
Sally, see if you can get a factory tour at Heartland before you buy. Actually, it is a good idea to get a factory tour of any brand before you buy it.
I really wish that we could spend a few weeks up in that neck of the woods, going on tour after tour, before we commit to buying our full-time coach. Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen, so we'll just have to settle for what we already know.
FWIW, the Bighorn is what got us talking about full-timing in the first place. Nice coaches.
In the past, Linda and I have gotten this question several times. Why do the manufacturers build specific models clearly with full-timing in mind and then say their warranties are not valid for full-time use?
My response has always been that the best manufacturers will stand behind their warranties for full-timers. The disclaimer is something the legal departments require. However, the manufacturers are most likely to take care of their full-timing customers because there is no one better for sales than a happy full-timer. The loyalty and word of mouth potential is tremendous.
With that said, Tom n Gina just posted the following in another topic and I just had to copy it and place it here. They got the information straight from the manufacturer:
Hi,
I have been researching different models and manufactures for almost a year. We have decided on the Montana 3400RL for the most part. After looking at what must have been over 200 floor plans we liked what the Montana offered in the way of counter space and other options for the $$. One thing I found was the fact that they state they do not warranty if the rig is used full time. Hmmmmm, why would they build a rig so perfect for full time then not warranty there product? This just didn't add up for a company to build something that nice and so liveable then not stand behind it!
Not making any sense, I called the factory and talked to them about the disclosure they make when they talk about full time. I was refered to the Midwest rep for Keystone and asked him why they would do that. He informed me that they would indeed stand behind any private party that purchased their product for full time. However the legal guy's for the company had them put that in because of possibility of people purchasing them for rental use and abuse. I trust what this person had to say and he assured me that if I did purchase their 5er they would stand behind it.
I would call the factory and ask them what their policy is when it comes to private use full time. Then I would choose what fits you best. I believe that when it comes to customer support they would all like to keep their jobs. I also believe that if they get a bad reputation because of something small like standing behind what they build why do they need to build it? The factory guy also told me that they very much like to hear from full timers that live in their products so they can make the needed adjustments to better the product. One of the things they are very interested in making an option in the future is a dehumidifier. This is because of imput from persons just like us.
Fabulous post! Thanks!
I am of the same opinion as DreamJosie on this one.
Would you trust what the manufacturer's rep. "told" you over what is written in their own literature? Not me.
Sorry, but if they don't feel strongly enough about their product to put it in writing, them I'm going to infer that the rig is not suited to fulltime use and should a problem occur in the future that they will fall back on their written warranty. (Maybe not true in the interest of "goodwill", but it certainly gives them an out.)
It might just be my lengthy legal background, but whatever is put in writing is, pretty much, to the manufacturer's advantage. This allows them to honor "warranty" work only if it is absolutely covered by the warranty (no question), or if they are feeling generous on any given day. If you have (or get) a very good dealer and can make it back from your "extended" vacation for repairs/warranty work, things could go your way. If, however, you have a crotchety rep at a questionable dealership, you may not fair as well. I (and, I believe, Carol) have recently looked at the Columbus by Palomino. I absolutely LOVE the layout, decor, etc., but the underbelly/walls/roof, etc. are of utmost importance for full-timing. Now I am reconsidering. Terry and Jo have a DRV Mobile Suites and Terry suggested I take a look at those. Well, I have absolutely fallen in love with so many things about DRV, not to mention the manufacturer will even work with you on customizing, among other things. The purpose of this post is to make known what Forest River has to say about their warranty when it comes to full-timing, for those who are still researching.
USE YOUR NEW RECREATIONAL VEHICLE RESPONSIBLY. YOUR CAMPER WAS NOT
DESIGNED TO BE USED AS A PERMANENT DWELLING, BUT FOR SHORT TERM AND
RECREATIONAL USE. IF YOU INTEND TO USE YOUR RV AS PERMANENT HOUSING, BE
ADVISED THAT IT COULD CAUSE PREMATURE WEAR ON YOUR APPLIANCES, FURNACE,
WATER SYSTEMS, CARPET, DRAPES, UPHOLSTERY, BEDDING AND INTERIOR SURFACES.
THIS PREMATURE WEAR CAUSED BY PERMANENT RESIDENCY MAY BE CONSIDERED
ABNORMAL OR ABUSIVE USE, AND COULD REDUCE OR IN SOME CASES, VOID YOUR
WARRANTY COVERAGE.
Even if one chooses not to reveal the fact that they full-time, this information makes me wonder if the Columbus is for me. Further, I do not want to make such a major investment just to find out later the unit may not hold up. I want something solid! So, Terry, I know you have posted much on DRV warranties, but can you expound on how DRV feels about full-timing and, again, what their warranty covers? So far, it seems their warranty is above and beyond the rest. I know DRV touts full-timing in their brochures, but more specific information might be helpful to those of us who are researching like crazy.
Many thanks!
-- Edited by Mary Sunshine on Sunday 29th of July 2012 01:24:53 PM
Jo,
DRV Suites also has a good reputation with regards to owners concerns, even after the warranty has run out. I know of some cases where they even covered some repairs even after the owner's warranty ran out. I won't say that will do that with everyone, but they do have a good reputation with the owners of their products.
I suggest that if a brand interests anyone that one should check to see if there are any owner's associations with forums. We did that with a lot of the brands that attracted our interest. Keep in mind that forums will naturally attract people who are looking for the solution to a problem with their RV. Also keep in mind that for all the numbers of complaints, there are probably a lot more woners that aren't having the same problems. I have no evidence of this, but I'd bet that happy owners far outweigh unhappy ones.
As for DRV Suites forum sources, there are two. The first is Suites Owners International Travel Club which is an association made up of owners but anyone can register for and participate with the SOITC forums. Membership within the association does require being an owner of a DRV Suites product, but that is not relevant to the forums. We were on their forums for 2 years with questions and comments prior to us buying out Mobile Suites.
Suites Owners International Travel Club
The second one is 5th Wheel Forums, which is just a forum and not an owner's association. However, like all forums, one does have to register to make comments or ask questions. Reading is free and informative.
5th Wheel Forums
Terry
DH found this release just yesterday announcing Heartland RV's push to gain market share with full-timers. www.rvbusiness.com/2012/07/heartland-rv%e2%80%99s-bighorn-captures-market-share/
I agree with those who've said that if a warranty states it will be invalid under certain conditions, you can't be sure it will stand, regardless of any oral assurances provided by the company's agents. I've submitted a question as follow-up to the above release asking whether the Bighorn warranty includes a disclaimer for full-timing and will post a response if/when I get one.
Sally
I also did some research into the "Full Time" exclusion.
I have talked to a lot of RVers and I have not found anybody that Jayco has been denied warranty due to fulltime living in their RV.
I agree the furniture in many RVs is not the greatest (we gave our Recliners to our Daughter and went to the furniture store and bought a very nice Lane Seating unit that we use daily)
We think our Jayco has soild construction, no OSB in the floor construction, all solid cherry hardwood in the cabinets and stiles.
The appliances in our Jayco (Stove, Refigerator, A/C Units, Water Heater, TV's, Toilet, Fireplace, Slide Systems, etc) are the same units used is RVs that have the "Full Time" listing.
Our Pinnacle is built by a 40 year old company that we think will be there if we need them.
Bottom line, it works for us!!!
I really wish that we could spend a few weeks up in that neck of the woods, going on tour after tour, before we commit to buying our full-time coach. Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen, so we'll just have to settle for what we already know.
FWIW, the Bighorn is what got us talking about full-timing in the first place. Nice coaches.