F250: $13,000 rapairs caused by contaminated fuel... Really?
Dave MW said
02:43 PM Aug 20, 2020
Greetings:
Friends of mine were shut down two weeks ago after buying "contaminated fuel" at a truck stop in Oklahoma. He had three hard starts, one at the pump at the TS, but the F250 pulled their 15,000 pound fifth wheel into Amarillo, TX just fine once it started. Just from this alone, I'm just not smelling contaminated fuel. The Ford dealership gave him an estimate for repairs of $13,000.
Yes, that's correct. I checked back with him. Thirteen Thousand Dollars!
What on earth could have been in that fuel that would have caused this sort of a repair estimate? Does anyone have any ideas?
The truck is a 2017, F250, diesel.
The first thing that caused me to question the fuel theory was how on earth did the bad fuel get to the engine for that first hard start sitting there at the pump perfectly stationary. Would there not be enough fuel in the lines and fuel filter to start the engine and drive the rig around the truck stop a few times before any bad fuel could have made it to the engine? He had no problems burning the previous tank of fuel that got him to Oklahoma.
The petro fuel industry has pretty much made water in fuel a thing of the past. And it seems to me that a TS would be the least likely place to buy fuel with water in it.
What is the likelihood of high sulfur fuel being anywhere near a truck stop? Even if that is the issue, would higher sulfur content cause this much damage? His insurance company Rep took fuel samples for analysis. No word yet from him what was found, or not found, in the fuel. I know changes in sulfur content changes the lubricating qualities of the fuel. But would that make it hard to start, yet run as advertised pulling a load? Still, this would not be of any significance on the first hard start at the pump.
I'm thinking failure of an IC chip might be more likely to be the culprit here. But I honestly have no clue as to what chip feeds data inputs to what other computers, nor the logic of what data is used for what.
I do know that one circuit on a chip can fail and the rest of the chip can work just fine. The failed circuit might only affect one function or mode, allowing all modes not requiring that circuit to function just fine.
The real surprise to me was, there was never an error code generated. Nor was there ever a check engine light. Hummmmm. That's odd.
Has anyone out there ever experienced, or known anyone to have experienced anything like this? If so, would you care to post what the result was?
My friend doesn't have a clue either. He and I have been scratching our heads trying to work out some logic and neither of us know modern vehicles very well at all. It's just something we've been playing with while he and his wife are enjoying visiting tourist sites near Amarillo driving a rental car while they wait on their truck.
So far, my totally uneducated worst guess, with a low degree of confidence, is a computer lost a fuel input or a switching signal and isn't being switched to "start". Or somewhere a "start" circuit just isn't working properly. Since I just had to pay $1,000 to have a fuel pump replaced on an old station vehicle, that price to replace a computer these days just wouldn't surprise me to the point of fainting, almost though. I'd still have to look around for the cameras.
Dave
arcaguy said
03:47 PM Aug 20, 2020
Something doesn't seem right here. Like you, I have a very hard time with $13,000 for contaminated fuel. Personally I would ask a lot of really specific questions and maybe get a second opinion. I also agree that the hard start at the truck stop was not from contaminated fuel from that fill-up.
As to the computer, that would be at the bottom of my list. Most electronics in vehicles are pretty reliable but what tends to happen is when folks can't find anything else wrong they blame the computer but about the only people that can test them is a dealer.
If you're up to it you might want to investigate FORSCAN, at forscan.org I believe, which is a free piece of software for Ford vehicles that allows dealer level diagnostics on your computer. You need to buy an interface to the ODBII port but it's only about $50 for the recommended one but there are others that work that you may be able to pick up locally. Good luck, this is a really tough spot to be in.
-- Edited by arcaguy on Thursday 20th of August 2020 03:49:39 PM
Rickl said
07:03 PM Aug 20, 2020
Without knowing the exact contamination one can only guess. If the contamination was so bad the possibility exists it took out the injectors, the oxygen sensors, fuel pump, fuel filters, any rubber components, removal of the fuel tank and having it cleaned.
You can get away with putting some diesel fuel into a gas engine, but you can’t get away with putting gas into a Diesel engine. Gas is a cleaner, whereas diesel can actually lubricant. So again, without knowing all of the specifics I could see a high dollar repair bill.
Terry and Jo said
10:31 PM Aug 20, 2020
I think I'd have to question the contaminated fuel as well. I'd think (but I'm not a mechanic) that the fuel filters should have protected somewhat against that being the cause.
My only issues with fuel in our F450 was one instance of "clogged" fuel filters when trying to cross Sherman Hill on I-80 between Cheyenne and Laramie, WY back in 2016 when we were moving to Oregon. But even then, the engine seemed to run fine, but it just couldn't get fuel enough to run fast. We topped Sherman Hill summit at about 30 mph.
One other thought that I know nothing about: what about a problem of getting DEF to the engine?
Terry
CJSX2fromCT said
03:07 AM Aug 22, 2020
You are right about enough fuel still in the lines after the tank was filled. NO WAY is it contaminated fuel. Dealership sees a transient out of State $$$$$$ Look into the dealerships reviews, Try to find out if possible if there was any complaints at the TS in regards to others having issues, when did they get the delivery of fuel? I would be looking else where for another opinion. No offense... it is a ford
Terry and Jo said
02:36 PM Aug 22, 2020
CJSX2fromCT wrote:
You are right about enough fuel still in the lines after the tank was filled. NO WAY is it contaminated fuel. Dealership sees a transient out of State $$$$$$ Look into the dealerships reviews, Try to find out if possible if there was any complaints at the TS in regards to others having issues, when did they get the delivery of fuel? I would be looking else where for another opinion. No offense... it is a ford
No offense...worst vehicles I ever had were GM products.
But, to be truthful, EVERY brand has had their bad products.
Terry
Rickl said
10:24 PM Aug 25, 2020
It could very well be contaminated fuel. Maybe the delivery driver who fills the facilities tanks dropped in the wrong fuel. (It happens as my nephew drives for a company that delivers fuel) Maybe the driver introduced DEF into the system but figured it was just a little so it probably will mix. It won’t! Maybe the station had heavy rain and the cap on the tank wasn’t tight. And as the tank level is pulled down there was a possibility of contamination. Maybe the driver was filling as the tanks were being refilled which stirs up sediment and other contaminants in the tank.
As I stated earlier, we don’t know or have not been told what the contamination the dealer found. While there are unscrupulous repair facilities out there, I would have a difficult time believing any dealership would blatantly try to take advantage of a customer as they have too much too lose if the manufacturer finds out they are running a scam. Maybe 40-50 years ago it was more common, but nowadays with the internet and consumer laws it is a rarity.
Dave MW said
10:50 AM Sep 24, 2020
In the end, the answer was sort of a non-answer. The insurance adjustor had a fuel sample tested. I don't know what the result was. But my friends are back on the road with new pump, filters, and "Fuel Delivery System", whatever that means. The adjustor signed off on all repairs for $13,000. $7,000 in parts and $6,000 labor.
Happy trails.
jrzygrl64 said
07:54 PM Oct 3, 2020
I know people who put gas in their diesel tank and it was $19,000 to get it fixed. Their insurance covered it (minus deductible) under an “accidental fuel contamination” clause on their policy.
Then there was the poor guy the put gasoline into The Beast - the Presidential limo. It is actually a truck with a Cadillac-looking body attached and runs on diesel. It is flown with an empty tank, then filled at the destination. Yes, there is a backup that also goes along, so no delay in moving the President around, but a rather red face or two. Happened a couple of years ago.
Greetings:
Friends of mine were shut down two weeks ago after buying "contaminated fuel" at a truck stop in Oklahoma. He had three hard starts, one at the pump at the TS, but the F250 pulled their 15,000 pound fifth wheel into Amarillo, TX just fine once it started. Just from this alone, I'm just not smelling contaminated fuel. The Ford dealership gave him an estimate for repairs of $13,000.
Yes, that's correct. I checked back with him. Thirteen Thousand Dollars!
What on earth could have been in that fuel that would have caused this sort of a repair estimate? Does anyone have any ideas?
The truck is a 2017, F250, diesel.
The first thing that caused me to question the fuel theory was how on earth did the bad fuel get to the engine for that first hard start sitting there at the pump perfectly stationary. Would there not be enough fuel in the lines and fuel filter to start the engine and drive the rig around the truck stop a few times before any bad fuel could have made it to the engine? He had no problems burning the previous tank of fuel that got him to Oklahoma.
The petro fuel industry has pretty much made water in fuel a thing of the past. And it seems to me that a TS would be the least likely place to buy fuel with water in it.
What is the likelihood of high sulfur fuel being anywhere near a truck stop? Even if that is the issue, would higher sulfur content cause this much damage? His insurance company Rep took fuel samples for analysis. No word yet from him what was found, or not found, in the fuel. I know changes in sulfur content changes the lubricating qualities of the fuel. But would that make it hard to start, yet run as advertised pulling a load? Still, this would not be of any significance on the first hard start at the pump.
I'm thinking failure of an IC chip might be more likely to be the culprit here. But I honestly have no clue as to what chip feeds data inputs to what other computers, nor the logic of what data is used for what.
I do know that one circuit on a chip can fail and the rest of the chip can work just fine. The failed circuit might only affect one function or mode, allowing all modes not requiring that circuit to function just fine.
The real surprise to me was, there was never an error code generated. Nor was there ever a check engine light. Hummmmm. That's odd.
Has anyone out there ever experienced, or known anyone to have experienced anything like this? If so, would you care to post what the result was?
My friend doesn't have a clue either. He and I have been scratching our heads trying to work out some logic and neither of us know modern vehicles very well at all. It's just something we've been playing with while he and his wife are enjoying visiting tourist sites near Amarillo driving a rental car while they wait on their truck.
So far, my totally uneducated worst guess, with a low degree of confidence, is a computer lost a fuel input or a switching signal and isn't being switched to "start". Or somewhere a "start" circuit just isn't working properly. Since I just had to pay $1,000 to have a fuel pump replaced on an old station vehicle, that price to replace a computer these days just wouldn't surprise me to the point of fainting, almost though. I'd still have to look around for the cameras.
Dave
Something doesn't seem right here. Like you, I have a very hard time with $13,000 for contaminated fuel. Personally I would ask a lot of really specific questions and maybe get a second opinion. I also agree that the hard start at the truck stop was not from contaminated fuel from that fill-up.
As to the computer, that would be at the bottom of my list. Most electronics in vehicles are pretty reliable but what tends to happen is when folks can't find anything else wrong they blame the computer but about the only people that can test them is a dealer.
If you're up to it you might want to investigate FORSCAN, at forscan.org I believe, which is a free piece of software for Ford vehicles that allows dealer level diagnostics on your computer. You need to buy an interface to the ODBII port but it's only about $50 for the recommended one but there are others that work that you may be able to pick up locally. Good luck, this is a really tough spot to be in.
-- Edited by arcaguy on Thursday 20th of August 2020 03:49:39 PM
You can get away with putting some diesel fuel into a gas engine, but you can’t get away with putting gas into a Diesel engine. Gas is a cleaner, whereas diesel can actually lubricant. So again, without knowing all of the specifics I could see a high dollar repair bill.
I think I'd have to question the contaminated fuel as well. I'd think (but I'm not a mechanic) that the fuel filters should have protected somewhat against that being the cause.
My only issues with fuel in our F450 was one instance of "clogged" fuel filters when trying to cross Sherman Hill on I-80 between Cheyenne and Laramie, WY back in 2016 when we were moving to Oregon. But even then, the engine seemed to run fine, but it just couldn't get fuel enough to run fast. We topped Sherman Hill summit at about 30 mph.
One other thought that I know nothing about: what about a problem of getting DEF to the engine?
Terry
No offense...worst vehicles I ever had were GM products.
But, to be truthful, EVERY brand has had their bad products.
Terry
As I stated earlier, we don’t know or have not been told what the contamination the dealer found. While there are unscrupulous repair facilities out there, I would have a difficult time believing any dealership would blatantly try to take advantage of a customer as they have too much too lose if the manufacturer finds out they are running a scam. Maybe 40-50 years ago it was more common, but nowadays with the internet and consumer laws it is a rarity.
Happy trails.
camperchronicles.com/2015/10/20/putting-regular-gas-in-a-diesel-vehicle/
True story.