Full-time RVers for almost 7 years with no "fall back" or "shelter in place" option.
Background: Dale needed an emergency root canal last Monday, after that all dentist shut down in Tucson. After having one appointment in Sedona scheduled, rescheduled, then canceled, we found another option in Cottonwood AZ that we are hoping and praying works out.
If we start seeing campgrounds, RV parks, etc. closing, what are your suggestions?
You've been very quiet, would love to hear from someone with a law background, can we really be kicked out of an RV park where we had reservations?
With your background in law, can we be forced out of a campground or municipality because we are not full time residents of said area?
Thanks
Terry and Jo said
09:27 AM Mar 23, 2020
Well, I'm certainly NOT an attorney, but I'd guess that if there is no written lease involved, I'd say that they could close up on you. As an option, I would talk with RV park owners in the area as to whether they would still allow one to stay until the dental work was done, at the very least.
In our case, we are in an RV park that somewhat caters to long term residents. There is no "community center" where everyone congregates, so self induced "social distancing" isn't all that hard. While we are acquainted with some of our neighbors, we don't spend a lot of time even talking to them. Maybe some park that caters to long termers might be a good option for you.
Good luck, and sorry to hear of Dale's problems. Hope they work out soon and you two can get back to "normal."
Terry
dianneandsteve said
10:29 AM Mar 23, 2020
We were booked into an RV Park run by the Regional Dist. of Vancouver on May 1st that we’ve stayed at for many years, and just received notification that they are closing. The RV park we just arrived at is fully booked in May as are others we have checked. We have requested to be put on a cancellation list. Our Provincial Parks are closed so not many options for full timers in our area. No family or friends in our area with a driveway large enough for our rig. I feel us full timers aren’t on the decision makers radar at all. We may have to put our rig into storage if available and go live with the kids if they’ll have us. 😷😷
Howard said
01:58 PM Mar 23, 2020
Hey Dale & Ruth,
This is an unfortunate situation for everyone. And yes, unfortunately, it doesn't matter whether or not you have reservations, the RV parks or campgrounds could close and you wouldn't have any legal recourse other than a refund of whatever deposit you've made. Even if there is a lease in place or if a deposit/reservation were deemed a "contract", neither would likely be enforceable under a public safety/public policy exception in the case of this pandemic.
As for this question ".... can we be forced out of a campground or municipality because we are not full time residents of said area?" I'm not sure that not being full-time residents of the area makes any difference - they can force out pretty much anyone they want under the circumstances.
The best you have going for you would be private campgrounds/RV parks that are trying to remain open. The economic fallout from this is going to hurt all those small business owners, and there have to be many out there that will remain open as long as the government doesn't shut them down. However, in some cases, legal teams are probably recommending that businesses shut down because the potential liability of someone contracting the virus at the place of business may be worse than the loss of revenue. If I were an RV park attorney, I'd probably have all people staying in the park sign a Hold Harmless/Assumption of Risk document during these next several weeks.
So, you probably have little to no legal recourse (other than a refund of any amounts paid in), so you will have to find places that intend to remain open and appeal to the humanitarian side of the owners/managers.
Good luck, and let us know what happens.
LarryW21 said
02:53 PM Mar 23, 2020
Consult an AZ attorney. However, it would be rare for any smart RV park owner not to include in the agreement you signed (but didn’t read...I don’t read them either) that the park can’t say “move it.”
Barb and Frank said
10:03 PM Mar 23, 2020
We, too, are full-timers and wintered in Casa Grande, AZ at Palm Creek RV Resort. This is a large resort catering primarily to snowbirds and is part of the Sun Resorts corporation. The RV park is very large and is a combination of spacious RV sites and manufactured housing, If you are looking for a place to stay, they are open and have plenty of availability on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis. Casa Grande is not far from Chandler and Gilbert where you might be able to find dental services. Casa Grande is also convenient to Tucson - which is where we go for medical services. Additionally, Casa Grande has a Banner Hospital just down the street. When we left there a week ago, their pools and most public rooms were closed, however, laundry rooms were open along with Pickleball and golf.
We are currently in Cottonwood, and are leaving tomorrow. We had reservations for a campground in Page, however, with less than 48 hours notice, we received an email indicating that the campground was closing due to Covid-19. Earlier today we had to scramble and find a different place. We were very lucky and found a campground that had room for our large rig.
We also have a reservation for Moab campground in about a month. Since the entire Moab area is on lockdown, it’s unlikely that we will be able to stay there. So I made a backup reservation at a campground in western Colorado.
My experience has been - campgrounds can close for any reason, at any time. In the days and weeks ahead, have a back up plan no matter where you go. At this point, I am not certain where we will be in the coming months - but in the near term we have reservations that should carry us through mid-May.
Good luck in your search - stay safe and be well.
Barb
Cookie Dough said
10:20 PM Mar 23, 2020
Fwiw We are currently in FL at a " corporate " property. Today they closed the pool, their decision. Our adult son, who travels w us is scheduled for a pain management procedure next week.We were recommended to a great doc in Tampa. However, only his NY doc will prescribe him pain med and that requires an office visit
We will driveway dock in NY. I called the first stop and they said they're currently open.
Before the outbreak we made a Memorial Day weekend reservation, in Maine happens to be a KOA. They sent us an email today outlining their sensible plans to accommodate campers. One is to pre register, just stay in vehicle and they will escort us to site. I plan to do that as we travel, that is just pay ahead and stay. Sorry if a bit off topic.
Florida winter and Northeast summer has been our routine due to all our medical issues.
Fergizmo said
08:17 AM Mar 31, 2020
Here in the Yuma area, there are many folks from the Pacific Northwest that are just hanging tight till things up north improve. There are quite a few lots around the Foothills area that are just a lot with a power ped that they are advertising for rent for $300 to $400 per month. Strange times indeed. Good luck & stay safe.
LarryW21 said
01:00 PM Apr 1, 2020
“there are many folks from the Pacific Northwest that are just hanging tight till things up north improve.”
Smart people to stay put.
arcaguy said
08:37 PM Apr 4, 2020
Just an observation from a landlord but it many, if not most, states there is a break at 30 days for real estate rentals. 1-30 days is considered transient and 30+ days is more or less considered permanent with eviction proceedings and the like if you want someone out. Maybe if you could find a park that will rent by the month right now it will put you in a different category. Any thoughts Howard?
Howard said
07:09 AM Apr 14, 2020
Many private RV parks will rent for a month, but I don't think that really matters in these times. Many parks with long-term rental options are trying to protect those that were already in the park prior to stay-at-home orders, so they are open but not allowing new people to come in. It's all up to the park owners, so while I agree with the premise that finding longer-term parks is probably the first place to look, there are no guarantees. And there is always the risk that states will shut down parks, both public and private, so as we always say regarding full-time RVers "Plans are written in Jell-O" and that applies more than ever right now.
For what it is worth, Ruth & Dale (original poster), have found a place for a month in southern Utah. They are resourceful and will figure it out from there.
arcaguy wrote:
Just an observation from a landlord but it many, if not most, states there is a break at 30 days for real estate rentals. 1-30 days is considered transient and 30+ days is more or less considered permanent with eviction proceedings and the like if you want someone out. Maybe if you could find a park that will rent by the month right now it will put you in a different category. Any thoughts Howard?
NWescapee said
09:13 AM Apr 14, 2020
So here's some positive news, we received a call from a park in CA where we planned a one month stay. They aren't allowing weekenders in, but they are allowing full time RVers who need a place to stop for a month or more. We've decided CA is not on our travel route for this spring, but it was really nice to have them offer that as an option.
Terry and Jo said
10:02 AM Apr 14, 2020
To follow up a bit, there are 8 states (as of about two days ago) that have not subjected their citizens to "Stay at home" orders. Thus, those states may be more likely to have RV parks be able to allow RV'ers to come in, even on a short term basis. Now, this is speculation on my part as to what the parks will do.
Those states are Utah, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Iowa.
Terry
LarryW21 said
05:16 PM Apr 14, 2020
Terry, you aren’t advocating travel to those states are you? Or any travel?
Cookie Dough said
06:55 PM Apr 14, 2020
We have been staying at home for over a month, only going to grocery or pharmacy. Taking universal precautions, that is assume everyone is sick.
However it was medically necessary for us to travel from FL to NY. Every place we stayed at, we just called ahead, paid and picked up our site map outside of the office.
Virginia and Maryland were closed, no motels or campgrounds allowed open for overnight, so we got to northern NC stayed 2 days and drove to southern NJ. In New Jersey we were limited to just being there, no "camping activities".
In NY we are driveway docking and haven't even gone into the house of my 92 year old mother in law.
We are still staying at home, just had to move it.
Bill
Terry and Jo said
08:45 AM Apr 15, 2020
LarryW21 wrote:
Terry, you aren’t advocating travel to those states are you? Or any travel?
Perhaps you missed the point of my post? If one is resident in one of those 8 states, they may NOT be restricted in travel. I can't speak for all of the states, but I can for Oklahoma, where we are located. And, should others be required to travel through those states to get somewhere (perhaps for family or medical reasons), those states may be easier for finding campgrounds.
Nothing in my post suggested that people travel.
As for us, I would really like to go to Oklahoma's Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge and take pictures. However, reports from friends in that area tell me that a lot of people are out there taking in nature and getting away from confinement, so it is unlikely that we will be going there any time soon.
Terry
PrairieRV said
11:38 AM Apr 15, 2020
I recently relocated from Tucson, Arizona to central Kansas to hunker down closer to my family. I had no problems finding open campgrounds. I stayed only 1 night each stop. In New Mexico they were allowed by the State to rent only half their sites. Went inside to pay, but we kept or personal distance. In Dalhart, Texas I had no problem in getting a site. The proprietor did everything at a table outside the office, but no special measures except distance. At a KOA in Kansas, you had to stay in your vehicle, phone them and they came out wearing gloves & masks & handed you paperwork then led me to my sight. So it seems to be a big variety of measures I place but I had no problems finding camp sites.
Really need someone like Howard to weigh in here.
Full-time RVers for almost 7 years with no "fall back" or "shelter in place" option.
Background: Dale needed an emergency root canal last Monday, after that all dentist shut down in Tucson. After having one appointment in Sedona scheduled, rescheduled, then canceled, we found another option in Cottonwood AZ that we are hoping and praying works out.
If we start seeing campgrounds, RV parks, etc. closing, what are your suggestions?
You've been very quiet, would love to hear from someone with a law background, can we really be kicked out of an RV park where we had reservations?
With your background in law, can we be forced out of a campground or municipality because we are not full time residents of said area?
Thanks
Well, I'm certainly NOT an attorney, but I'd guess that if there is no written lease involved, I'd say that they could close up on you. As an option, I would talk with RV park owners in the area as to whether they would still allow one to stay until the dental work was done, at the very least.
In our case, we are in an RV park that somewhat caters to long term residents. There is no "community center" where everyone congregates, so self induced "social distancing" isn't all that hard. While we are acquainted with some of our neighbors, we don't spend a lot of time even talking to them. Maybe some park that caters to long termers might be a good option for you.
Good luck, and sorry to hear of Dale's problems. Hope they work out soon and you two can get back to "normal."
Terry
We were booked into an RV Park run by the Regional Dist. of Vancouver on May 1st that we’ve stayed at for many years, and just received notification that they are closing. The RV park we just arrived at is fully booked in May as are others we have checked. We have requested to be put on a cancellation list. Our Provincial Parks are closed so not many options for full timers in our area. No family or friends in our area with a driveway large enough for our rig. I feel us full timers aren’t on the decision makers radar at all. We may have to put our rig into storage if available and go live with the kids if they’ll have us. 😷😷
Hey Dale & Ruth,
This is an unfortunate situation for everyone. And yes, unfortunately, it doesn't matter whether or not you have reservations, the RV parks or campgrounds could close and you wouldn't have any legal recourse other than a refund of whatever deposit you've made. Even if there is a lease in place or if a deposit/reservation were deemed a "contract", neither would likely be enforceable under a public safety/public policy exception in the case of this pandemic.
As for this question ".... can we be forced out of a campground or municipality because we are not full time residents of said area?" I'm not sure that not being full-time residents of the area makes any difference - they can force out pretty much anyone they want under the circumstances.
The best you have going for you would be private campgrounds/RV parks that are trying to remain open. The economic fallout from this is going to hurt all those small business owners, and there have to be many out there that will remain open as long as the government doesn't shut them down. However, in some cases, legal teams are probably recommending that businesses shut down because the potential liability of someone contracting the virus at the place of business may be worse than the loss of revenue. If I were an RV park attorney, I'd probably have all people staying in the park sign a Hold Harmless/Assumption of Risk document during these next several weeks.
So, you probably have little to no legal recourse (other than a refund of any amounts paid in), so you will have to find places that intend to remain open and appeal to the humanitarian side of the owners/managers.
Good luck, and let us know what happens.
We, too, are full-timers and wintered in Casa Grande, AZ at Palm Creek RV Resort. This is a large resort catering primarily to snowbirds and is part of the Sun Resorts corporation. The RV park is very large and is a combination of spacious RV sites and manufactured housing, If you are looking for a place to stay, they are open and have plenty of availability on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis. Casa Grande is not far from Chandler and Gilbert where you might be able to find dental services. Casa Grande is also convenient to Tucson - which is where we go for medical services. Additionally, Casa Grande has a Banner Hospital just down the street. When we left there a week ago, their pools and most public rooms were closed, however, laundry rooms were open along with Pickleball and golf.
We are currently in Cottonwood, and are leaving tomorrow. We had reservations for a campground in Page, however, with less than 48 hours notice, we received an email indicating that the campground was closing due to Covid-19. Earlier today we had to scramble and find a different place. We were very lucky and found a campground that had room for our large rig.
We also have a reservation for Moab campground in about a month. Since the entire Moab area is on lockdown, it’s unlikely that we will be able to stay there. So I made a backup reservation at a campground in western Colorado.
My experience has been - campgrounds can close for any reason, at any time. In the days and weeks ahead, have a back up plan no matter where you go. At this point, I am not certain where we will be in the coming months - but in the near term we have reservations that should carry us through mid-May.
Good luck in your search - stay safe and be well.
Barb
Smart people to stay put.
To follow up a bit, there are 8 states (as of about two days ago) that have not subjected their citizens to "Stay at home" orders. Thus, those states may be more likely to have RV parks be able to allow RV'ers to come in, even on a short term basis. Now, this is speculation on my part as to what the parks will do.
Those states are Utah, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Iowa.
Terry
However it was medically necessary for us to travel from FL to NY. Every place we stayed at, we just called ahead, paid and picked up our site map outside of the office.
Virginia and Maryland were closed, no motels or campgrounds allowed open for overnight, so we got to northern NC stayed 2 days and drove to southern NJ. In New Jersey we were limited to just being there, no "camping activities".
In NY we are driveway docking and haven't even gone into the house of my 92 year old mother in law.
We are still staying at home, just had to move it.
Bill
Perhaps you missed the point of my post? If one is resident in one of those 8 states, they may NOT be restricted in travel. I can't speak for all of the states, but I can for Oklahoma, where we are located. And, should others be required to travel through those states to get somewhere (perhaps for family or medical reasons), those states may be easier for finding campgrounds.
Nothing in my post suggested that people travel.
As for us, I would really like to go to Oklahoma's Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge and take pictures. However, reports from friends in that area tell me that a lot of people are out there taking in nature and getting away from confinement, so it is unlikely that we will be going there any time soon.
Terry