The new Montana High Country 381th came with Tredit Rainier ST 235/80R16F tires. The tire specifications are as follows:
Size Max Load Inflation Speed Rating
ST235/80R16 3,860 lbs 95 psi M/81mph (F)
I have read to be aware of the so-called “China Bombs” but haven’t seen much for bad reviews on these tires. By the time the 5th wheel made it to our home it has slightly over 1,000 miles on the tires with no sign of a problem. The tires come with a 6 year warranty with 100% replacement in the first year. In all of the forums I have read on trailer tires there are some that have very strong opinions on good and bad tires brands. Has anyone had a problem with this particular tire that would warrant replacement well before 5 years of service? Date code on the tires is 2118. My trailer is 41 feet 6 inches long with triple axles and a max load range of 17,000 pounds. Pin weight on the trailer dry is around 3,100 pounds so the load on the tires is well within the tire specifications. I do have the TST 507 FT C pressure/temperature monitor on the tires so I do monitor pressure and temperature of the tires. I’m inclined to stay with the tires and keeping my eyes on them.
Thanks,
Jon
Rickl said
09:10 AM Nov 17, 2019
While I’m not a China tire advocate, many of them are well built. The simple fact is the big tire companies i.e. Goodyear, Michelin, Bridgestone, are the ones who shared their expertise and technology to them. Keep in mind the technology and molds are their aged tech.
My issue with them was trying to compete against them price wise as they were able to flood the US market making it difficult to hold margins so one could sustain a company. With the tariffs it has leveled the playing field better.
All that being said, you shouldn’t need to monitor these tires anymore or less then say a Bridgestone or Michelin. The important point is to know your weight of each axle (individual tire weights are the best and preferred method but can be difficult unless you find a rally that can properly measure each wheel position). Always inflate all trailer tires to handle the heaviest wheel position. Using a load and inflation chart will guide you to the best air pressure to use. Forget about about the “tribal knowledge” or myths to overinflate the tires by 5 psi over the recommended pressure based on the load and inflation chart.
Finally, as you monitor the tires look for edge wear on any particular wheel position as it may be a sign of an axle misalignment. Also, for cupping. As most trailer tires are not balanced, any small cupping will grow rapidly as that tire bounces down the highway. I’m a big advocate in balancing the trailer tires when new. As long as the weights stay in position during the tires life you should improve the life quite a bit in comparison to not balancing the assembly.
MAYBE2021 said
11:33 AM Nov 17, 2019
Jon, I have Rainier ST225/75R15 on my TT. I have about 4,000 miles and three years on them with no problems. Well except for the piece of metal that went through the side wall of one of them. That tire did not like that.
I just went out and checked the date code on one of them and it is 01/16.
Steve
-- Edited by MAYBE2021 on Sunday 17th of November 2019 11:37:29 AM
-- Edited by MAYBE2021 on Sunday 17th of November 2019 11:45:02 AM
Cyride said
02:47 PM Nov 17, 2019
Thank you for your input. Since this is my first trailer of this type and size (only had boat trailers and small pop-up camper in the past) I put the TPMS system on board. It was really interesting to see how that system monitored the 5th wheel on the 300 mile trip home. For example, on a 100 mile section of the trip I had a very strong side wind. The tires on the downwind side of the trailer were running 8 to 10 degrees hotter than those on the winded side. I would have expected that to happen since additional force is being applied to that side of the RV, it was just interesting to see it show up on the TPMS. Since the tires have 1000 miles on them I crawled under the trailer to check the tires on both sides for any unusual ware or blemishes.
A question on inflating the tires. They say to inflate them to 95psi cold. To me a cold temperature resting would be ambient temperature at the time. So if, on a 40 degree day like today, I air them to 95 psi I would have the tires overinflated on a 75 degree day?
I look forward to weighing each axle at some point Rikl but will have to find a place I can do that at some time in the future. I wonder if there are any events to be held in Iowa that I could do that at some point.
I don't plan on setting any kind of speed records on the road. These tires are rated 81 mph but I plan to stay between 55 and 65 mph where ever I go. After pulling the trailers I've had in the past and putting many, many thousands of miles on a motorcycle I have learned to be fairly conservative in running down the road.
Thanks again for all the support. I will probably have a lot more questions in the future as I try to wrap my head around owning such a device!
Jon
LarryW21 said
04:16 PM Nov 17, 2019
No need to perpetrate the “China bomb” hysteria. I run, and have run, Chinese tires with only one issue that I attribute to a road hazard. Age, inflation, load range, weight are the real issues.
Rickl said
03:12 AM Nov 18, 2019
Cyride wrote:
A question on inflating the tires. They say to inflate them to 95psi cold. To me a cold temperature resting would be ambient temperature at the time. So if, on a 40 degree day like today, I air them to 95 psi I would have the tires overinflated on a 75 degree day?
Jon
You are correct in that “cold“ refers to ambient temperature (when the inside tire temperature is the same as the outside temperature). Inflating to max pressure just means the tire is at its maximum carrying capacity. Which could mean you are way over inflated compared to your actual weight being carried. This could result in irregular wear patterns on the tire.
Best method is to inflate to the proper PSI prior to moving the trailer every morning. Then just monitor the tires but do not adjust the pressures during the day based on temp or altitude. Don’t get all tied up in nominal pressure increases or temps as you travel. Most new tires are cured at approximately 350° so temps that can bounce up to 190° don’t spell immediate disaster.
Personally as I travel I only monitor tire temperatures. If all 4 tires on the trailer are within a couple of degrees of each other I’m fine. Keep in mind that the side the sun hits may be higher. So the sunny side may be at say 145° for both, while the other side may be at 140° for both. I also check the bearing temps by “shooting“ the wheel centers, not just the tire sidewalls.
FastEagle said
04:13 AM Nov 21, 2019
The correct inflation pressures for your tires is provided in the vehicle owner's manual, on the tire placard and vehicle certification label.
Inflating tires to the load carried defeats the load capacity reserves the vehicle manufacturer has provided with the inflation pressures recommended for the Original Equipment tires.
Point to remember; tire manufacturer's do not set vehicle inflation pressures, that is the responsibility of the vehicle manufacturer.
Rickl said
07:38 AM Nov 21, 2019
FastEagle wrote:
The correct inflation pressures for your tires is provided in the vehicle owner's manual, on the tire placard and vehicle certification label.
Inflating tires to the load carried defeats the load capacity reserves the vehicle manufacturer has provided with the inflation pressures recommended for the Original Equipment tires.
Point to remember; tire manufacturer's do not set vehicle inflation pressures, that is the responsibility of the vehicle manufacturer
Unfortunately this isn’t correct. The placard provided by the manufacturer is to carry the maximum amount of capacity the trailer was designed for. In the event the trailer is loaded lighter then capacity then adjusting the tire pressure will provide the best footprint and wear.
Also, neither the tire nor the trailer manufacturers set the tire pressure. The correct pressures are set off the guidelines determined by the tire and rim association which is made up of representatives of both tire manufacturers and rim/wheel manufacturer.
-- Edited by Rickl on Thursday 21st of November 2019 07:38:58 AM
RonC said
03:44 PM Nov 21, 2019
LarryW21 wrote:
No need to perpetrate the “China bomb” hysteria. I run, and have run, Chinese tires with only one issue that I attribute to a road hazard. Age, inflation, load range, weight are the real issues.
Since you say "I run" Chinese tires, may I ask what brand? There are bad ones, some that are OK and some that are actually pretty good.
FastEagle said
11:19 PM Nov 21, 2019
Rickl wrote:
FastEagle wrote:
The correct inflation pressures for your tires is provided in the vehicle owner's manual, on the tire placard and vehicle certification label.
Inflating tires to the load carried defeats the load capacity reserves the vehicle manufacturer has provided with the inflation pressures recommended for the Original Equipment tires.
Point to remember; tire manufacturer's do not set vehicle inflation pressures, that is the responsibility of the vehicle manufacturer
Unfortunately this isn’t correct. The placard provided by the manufacturer is to carry the maximum amount of capacity the trailer was designed for. In the event the trailer is loaded lighter then capacity then adjusting the tire pressure will provide the best footprint and wear. That is incorrect. You obviously are not aware of the proper standards provided in the FMVSS as minimum.
Also, neither the tire nor the trailer manufacturers set the tire pressure. The correct pressures are set off the guidelines determined by the tire and rim association which is made up of representatives of both tire manufacturers and rim/wheel manufacturer. The key word above is "set".
The FMVSS clearly identifies and directs the vehicle manufacturer to establish and set recommended cold inflation pressures. FMVSS (standards) are minimum standards therefore the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressures found on the federal certification label for Original Equipment tires is correct and minimum allowed for that fitment.
Inflation tires to the load carried is a FMCSA standard accepted for commercial tires in commercial use. Those standards are not applicable to tires installed on vehicles under FMVSS standards.
The following statement can be found in the NHTSA SAFECAR publication.
"Your tires' proper tire inflation pressure—measured in both kilopascals (kPA) and pounds per square inch (PSI or psi)—can be found on the Tire and Loading label or in your owner's manual."
Ref: FMVSS 571.120 paragraph S5.3.1 Tires. The size designation and the recommended cold inflation pressure for those tires such that the sum of the load ratings of the tires on each axle is appropriate for the GAWR.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Thursday 21st of November 2019 11:33:12 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Thursday 21st of November 2019 11:50:16 PM
Cyride said
11:31 PM Nov 21, 2019
RonC, the tires are Tredit Rainier ST 235/80R16F.
Jon
RonC said
04:05 PM Nov 22, 2019
Yes I know ... my quoted info was LarryW21 and my question was asked of him.
Rickl said
05:12 PM Nov 22, 2019
FastEagle wrote:
Rickl wrote:
FastEagle wrote:
The correct inflation pressures for your tires is provided in the vehicle owner's manual, on the tire placard and vehicle certification label.
Inflating tires to the load carried defeats the load capacity reserves the vehicle manufacturer has provided with the inflation pressures recommended for the Original Equipment tires.
Point to remember; tire manufacturer's do not set vehicle inflation pressures, that is the responsibility of the vehicle manufacturer
Unfortunately this isn’t correct. The placard provided by the manufacturer is to carry the maximum amount of capacity the trailer was designed for. In the event the trailer is loaded lighter then capacity then adjusting the tire pressure will provide the best footprint and wear. That is incorrect. You obviously are not aware of the proper standards provided in the FMVSS as minimum.
Also, neither the tire nor the trailer manufacturers set the tire pressure. The correct pressures are set off the guidelines determined by the tire and rim association which is made up of representatives of both tire manufacturers and rim/wheel manufacturer. The key word above is "set".
The FMVSS clearly identifies and directs the vehicle manufacturer to establish and set recommended cold inflation pressures. FMVSS (standards) are minimum standards therefore the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressures found on the federal certification label for Original Equipment tires is correct and minimum allowed for that fitment.
Inflation tires to the load carried is a FMCSA standard accepted for commercial tires in commercial use. Those standards are not applicable to tires installed on vehicles under FMVSS standards.
The following statement can be found in the NHTSA SAFECAR publication.
"Your tires' proper tire inflation pressure—measured in both kilopascals (kPA) and pounds per square inch (PSI or psi)—can be found on the Tire and Loading label or in your owner's manual."
Ref: FMVSS 571.120 paragraph S5.3.1 Tires. The size designation and the recommended cold inflation pressure for those tires such that the sum of the load ratings of the tires on each axle is appropriate for the GAWR.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Thursday 21st of November 2019 11:33:12 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Thursday 21st of November 2019 11:50:16 PM
Obviously you are missing something. Do you really believe a trailer manufacturer knows the correct tire/PSI .
Obviously you are miss something. Do you really think the trailer manufacturers know the correct size and PSI to utilize for the various brands/models? While I can’t say for 100%, I know 100% on vehicles as I worked for Goodyear, Bridgestone, and Michelin and was told by OE engineers, most manufactures rely on the Tire and Rim association to help them fit the correct tire/wheel application. That complies with the FMCSA requirements.
FastEagle said
02:11 PM Nov 23, 2019
Most manufactures rely on the Tire and Rim association to help them fit the correct tire/wheel application.That complies with the FMCSA requirements.
Tire manufacturers develop load inflation charts for those they manufacturer. The Tire and Rim Association (TRA) has the final approval authority of all tire manufacturers listings; once they have determined they are standardized. Load inflation charts are a tool used by all vehicle manufacturers and tire installers. They are not recommendations. They are standardized values and graduated in increments for ease of use. The FMVSS directs vehicle manufacturers to establish a recommended cold inflation pressure that is appropriate for each individual fitment. How such manufacturer's go about complying with that standard is part of their manufacturing plan. The bottom line is; the recommended cold inflation pressures found on your vehicle's federal certification label are the minimum accepted standard for that vehicle's Original Equipment (OE) tires. The USTMA insures that standard is maintained with a standard that reads, in part; Replacement tires must provide a load capacity via recommended cold inflation pressure that equals the load capacity provided by the OE tires.
The vehicle manufacturer cannot sidestep a FMVSS requirement. Tire manufacturer's have challanged those standards in the past and have always lost the arguement.
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) regulations are not applicable to vehicles manufactured under the guidance of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS).
The U.S. Tire Manufacturing Association (USTMA) previously the U.S. Rubber Manufacturing Association (RMA) PDF document provided in the reference below may better answer all of your questions. Chapter four is all about RV tires.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Saturday 23rd of November 2019 02:12:19 PM
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Saturday 23rd of November 2019 02:25:33 PM
Rickl said
04:57 PM Nov 23, 2019
FastEagle wrote:
Most manufactures rely on the Tire and Rim association to help them fit the correct tire/wheel application.That complies with the FMCSA requirements.
Tire manufacturers develop load inflation charts for those they manufacturer. The Tire and Rim Association (TRA) has the final approval authority of all tire manufacturers listings; once they have determined they are standardized. Load inflation charts are a tool used by all vehicle manufacturers and tire installers. They are not recommendations. They are recommendations. They could spec higher carrying capacities if they so desired. They are standardized values and graduated in increments for ease of use. The FMVSS directs vehicle manufacturers to establish a recommended cold inflation pressure that is appropriate for each individual fitment. How such manufacturer's go about complying with that standard is part of their manufacturing plan. The bottom line is; the recommended cold inflation pressures found on your vehicle's federal certification label are the minimum accepted standard for that vehicle's Original Equipment (OE) tires. The USTMA insures that standard is maintained with a standard that reads, in part; Replacement tires must provide a load capacity via recommended cold inflation pressure that equals the load capacity provided by the OE tires.
The vehicle manufacturer cannot sidestep a FMVSS requirement. Tire manufacturer's have challanged those standards in the past and have always lost the arguement. Please provide actual facts such as cases, rulings. I’m from Missouri.
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) regulations are not applicable to vehicles manufactured under the guidance of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS).
The U.S. Tire Manufacturing Association (USTMA) previously the U.S. Rubber Manufacturing Association (RMA) PDF document provided in the reference below may better answer all of your questions. Chapter four is all about RV tires.
Sorry, I decided to edit out my last thoughts on tire inflation charts. To me they are a tool to assist in selecting a satisfactory inflation pressure that satisfies tire industry safety standards.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Wednesday 27th of November 2019 12:17:20 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Wednesday 27th of November 2019 12:24:17 PM
The new Montana High Country 381th came with Tredit Rainier ST 235/80R16F tires. The tire specifications are as follows:
Size Max Load Inflation Speed Rating
ST235/80R16 3,860 lbs 95 psi M/81mph (F)
I have read to be aware of the so-called “China Bombs” but haven’t seen much for bad reviews on these tires. By the time the 5th wheel made it to our home it has slightly over 1,000 miles on the tires with no sign of a problem. The tires come with a 6 year warranty with 100% replacement in the first year. In all of the forums I have read on trailer tires there are some that have very strong opinions on good and bad tires brands. Has anyone had a problem with this particular tire that would warrant replacement well before 5 years of service? Date code on the tires is 2118. My trailer is 41 feet 6 inches long with triple axles and a max load range of 17,000 pounds. Pin weight on the trailer dry is around 3,100 pounds so the load on the tires is well within the tire specifications. I do have the TST 507 FT C pressure/temperature monitor on the tires so I do monitor pressure and temperature of the tires. I’m inclined to stay with the tires and keeping my eyes on them.
Thanks,
Jon
My issue with them was trying to compete against them price wise as they were able to flood the US market making it difficult to hold margins so one could sustain a company. With the tariffs it has leveled the playing field better.
All that being said, you shouldn’t need to monitor these tires anymore or less then say a Bridgestone or Michelin. The important point is to know your weight of each axle (individual tire weights are the best and preferred method but can be difficult unless you find a rally that can properly measure each wheel position). Always inflate all trailer tires to handle the heaviest wheel position. Using a load and inflation chart will guide you to the best air pressure to use. Forget about about the “tribal knowledge” or myths to overinflate the tires by 5 psi over the recommended pressure based on the load and inflation chart.
Finally, as you monitor the tires look for edge wear on any particular wheel position as it may be a sign of an axle misalignment. Also, for cupping. As most trailer tires are not balanced, any small cupping will grow rapidly as that tire bounces down the highway. I’m a big advocate in balancing the trailer tires when new. As long as the weights stay in position during the tires life you should improve the life quite a bit in comparison to not balancing the assembly.
Jon, I have Rainier ST225/75R15 on my TT. I have about 4,000 miles and three years on them with no problems. Well except for the piece of metal that went through the side wall of one of them. That tire did not like that.
I just went out and checked the date code on one of them and it is 01/16.
Steve
-- Edited by MAYBE2021 on Sunday 17th of November 2019 11:37:29 AM
-- Edited by MAYBE2021 on Sunday 17th of November 2019 11:45:02 AM
A question on inflating the tires. They say to inflate them to 95psi cold. To me a cold temperature resting would be ambient temperature at the time. So if, on a 40 degree day like today, I air them to 95 psi I would have the tires overinflated on a 75 degree day?
I look forward to weighing each axle at some point Rikl but will have to find a place I can do that at some time in the future. I wonder if there are any events to be held in Iowa that I could do that at some point.
I don't plan on setting any kind of speed records on the road. These tires are rated 81 mph but I plan to stay between 55 and 65 mph where ever I go. After pulling the trailers I've had in the past and putting many, many thousands of miles on a motorcycle I have learned to be fairly conservative in running down the road.
Thanks again for all the support. I will probably have a lot more questions in the future as I try to wrap my head around owning such a device!
Jon
You are correct in that “cold“ refers to ambient temperature (when the inside tire temperature is the same as the outside temperature). Inflating to max pressure just means the tire is at its maximum carrying capacity. Which could mean you are way over inflated compared to your actual weight being carried. This could result in irregular wear patterns on the tire.
Best method is to inflate to the proper PSI prior to moving the trailer every morning. Then just monitor the tires but do not adjust the pressures during the day based on temp or altitude. Don’t get all tied up in nominal pressure increases or temps as you travel. Most new tires are cured at approximately 350° so temps that can bounce up to 190° don’t spell immediate disaster.
Personally as I travel I only monitor tire temperatures. If all 4 tires on the trailer are within a couple of degrees of each other I’m fine. Keep in mind that the side the sun hits may be higher. So the sunny side may be at say 145° for both, while the other side may be at 140° for both. I also check the bearing temps by “shooting“ the wheel centers, not just the tire sidewalls.
Inflating tires to the load carried defeats the load capacity reserves the vehicle manufacturer has provided with the inflation pressures recommended for the Original Equipment tires.
Point to remember; tire manufacturer's do not set vehicle inflation pressures, that is the responsibility of the vehicle manufacturer.
-- Edited by Rickl on Thursday 21st of November 2019 07:38:58 AM
Since you say "I run" Chinese tires, may I ask what brand? There are bad ones, some that are OK and some that are actually pretty good.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Thursday 21st of November 2019 11:33:12 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Thursday 21st of November 2019 11:50:16 PM
Jon
Yes I know ... my quoted info was LarryW21 and my question was asked of him.
Obviously you are miss something. Do you really think the trailer manufacturers know the correct size and PSI to utilize for the various brands/models? While I can’t say for 100%, I know 100% on vehicles as I worked for Goodyear, Bridgestone, and Michelin and was told by OE engineers, most manufactures rely on the Tire and Rim association to help them fit the correct tire/wheel application. That complies with the FMCSA requirements.
Most manufactures rely on the Tire and Rim association to help them fit the correct tire/wheel application. That complies with the FMCSA requirements.
Tire manufacturers develop load inflation charts for those they manufacturer. The Tire and Rim Association (TRA) has the final approval authority of all tire manufacturers listings; once they have determined they are standardized. Load inflation charts are a tool used by all vehicle manufacturers and tire installers. They are not recommendations. They are standardized values and graduated in increments for ease of use. The FMVSS directs vehicle manufacturers to establish a recommended cold inflation pressure that is appropriate for each individual fitment. How such manufacturer's go about complying with that standard is part of their manufacturing plan. The bottom line is; the recommended cold inflation pressures found on your vehicle's federal certification label are the minimum accepted standard for that vehicle's Original Equipment (OE) tires. The USTMA insures that standard is maintained with a standard that reads, in part; Replacement tires must provide a load capacity via recommended cold inflation pressure that equals the load capacity provided by the OE tires.
The vehicle manufacturer cannot sidestep a FMVSS requirement. Tire manufacturer's have challanged those standards in the past and have always lost the arguement.
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) regulations are not applicable to vehicles manufactured under the guidance of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS).
The U.S. Tire Manufacturing Association (USTMA) previously the U.S. Rubber Manufacturing Association (RMA) PDF document provided in the reference below may better answer all of your questions. Chapter four is all about RV tires.
https://www.ustires.org/sites/default/files/CareAndService_PassengerAndLightTruckTires.pdf
-- Edited by FastEagle on Saturday 23rd of November 2019 02:12:19 PM
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Saturday 23rd of November 2019 02:25:33 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Wednesday 27th of November 2019 12:17:20 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Wednesday 27th of November 2019 12:24:17 PM