While looking at 5th wheel toy haulers one of the salesmen indicated the manufactures may not honor warranties for "full time" RV users. When I asked him what the definition of a "full timer" was, he couldn't answer the question. I even asked one of the manufacturers representatives and he couldn't answer the question. Our plans are to spend 2 to 3 months in our RV in the summer and 3 to 4 months in the winter. Is there an answer for what determines if you are full time? Seems like a very gray area!
Workinrvers said
06:44 AM Mar 19, 2018
have heard this before but never personally from a dealer. I have had to have warranty service and was never asked if I used my rig full time and even if they did ask you could simply say "no". In your situation you indicate only 5-6 months of use so, no, that would not be "full time". Just a rule of thumb: only believe 25% or less of what a salesman tells you has been my experience.
-- Edited by Workinrvers on Monday 19th of March 2018 06:44:56 AM
The Bear II said
10:19 AM Mar 19, 2018
Never comes up when I go for service...
Cyride said
12:56 PM Mar 19, 2018
When I look at the flyer for the Montana High Country it states right on the front cover "Warranty for Full Time RVing" (that is what the salesman was pointing out). I assume if I had no other home and lived in my RV 100% of the time I would be a "full timer". I talked to another Keystone RV dealer, he indicated full timer warranty on the models he sold would be determined at the time of service. I called Keystone directly but have not herd back from them about their model warranties and what they consider "full time". I tend to agree the use we are planning should not be of concern. Just thought if Keystone puts it on their Montana flyer why is it ambiguous for their other model lines they sell. I have seen some discussion of full timer warranties on other threads of this site, just wanted to ask what the definition clearly was.
Glenn West said
02:11 PM Mar 19, 2018
If a manufacturer tells one that is a gray or not warrantable unit I would run. They are stating it is sub standard for that type of use. Says tons of the quality of the unit. Now DRV does have a toyhauler for full time us. Not declaring no one else does but know they do. Can also get one warrantied for full time with the custom builders. Don't know how much you willing to pay. They are quite more money. Only way I would consider a toyhauler is it was 50 feet long. 6' garage really gets into living space.
kb0zke said
04:08 PM Mar 19, 2018
I'm thankful that there are so many people who can afford to buy new coaches, as we are the people who buy your used ones. I have rarely had anything with a warranty.
Some years ago, when we were doing our research, we wondered about that same question. At that time we were told that they normal RV warranty is one year and the manufacturers consider that the RV will be used about 60 days during that year. That would mean that a full-timer puts on six years of wear and tear each year.
Some manufacturers have some lines/models that are rated for full-time, meaning that those are made of (generally) heavier/stronger/higher quality materials. Often the advertising materials will have some sort of statement about full-time use, either approving or specifically disapproving such use. If a particular coach is not approved for full-time use it doesn't mean that it is junk, just that is isn't made for such use. The price will generally also reflect that.
Full-time coaches are generally the larger ones, are heavier, and more expensive. Yes, people can and do full-time in all sorts of rigs, but most of us want something large enough to hold everything we will need on the road AND have space to be comfortable inside when conditions outside aren't so pleasant.
One thing to check is the difference between the coach's empty (dry) weight and the gross vehicle weight rating. Most people figure on 1-2,000 pounds of "stuff" per person, so you should find a reasonable difference between maximum weight and empty weight. Don't forget to allow for water, propane, the second a/c, etc. that aren't counted in the advertising material.
Second Chance said
07:02 PM Mar 19, 2018
It doesn't sound like your situation would qualify as "full-timing" no matter how someone tries to twist it. The advice about running if a salesperson were to say something about the warranty not being honored for full-timers is great advice. The manufacturer of our RV is pretty open about covering full-timers... they do. The only time the question has ever been discussed with us is when there was a situation where there was a possibility of the RV going into the shop overnight (or for several). We've always found work-arounds. It's never been an issue for us.
Rob
Cyride said
09:18 PM Mar 19, 2018
I did hear back from the RV manufacture this afternoon. He said as long as the RV is used as intended there would be no problem with warranty. He said some folks will remove the wheels from the RV, put it up on blocks and use it has a home. He said in no way would using it for 7 months out of the year void any warranties. I have noticed, just looking at 5th wheels over the last month or two, there seems to be some changes in the new warranties. A lot of manufactures are going to 3 year chassis warranties to keep up with the competition. I wasn't all that worried, I was more interested in finding out what constitutes a full timer with the warranty hype. I have learned a lot over the past month. I think one of the biggest lessons I have learned is what I need for a tow vehicle. I have decided for the class of 5th wheel I am looking at I will be purchasing a DRW diesel. Now just to figure out weather it will be a Ford, Dodge or GM. As far as the 5th wheel toy haulers go I don't believe I need to get into the custom built or DRV class as it is a little out of the price range I was looking for. The only camper we have owned was a pop-up camper when the kids were young. We very much enjoyed camping back then, this is a little different world for us this time around. My wife will be so happy to have an RV with bathroom facilities in it!
Thanks for all the input!!!!
Jon
Terry and Jo said
06:02 AM Mar 20, 2018
Jon,
While I would agree that your description of your intended use would not classify you as full-time RV'ers, that sort of thing could a situation where the manufacturer/dealer would determine on a case by case basis. I asked the same question when we were researching for our RV (a two year process, by the way) and had at least one RV manufacturer representative say, "just don't tell us you are full-time." The thought that a technician at a dealership could say that "they look like they live in it full time" and decide to deny warranty service was enough reason for us to ignore a brand if they didn't specifically say they warranted full timers.
We looked at both motorhomes and fifth wheel RV's in our research and determined that we would be living in ours in cold climates, so we paid close attention to what the various RV's did for insulation. At the time, DRV's Mobile Suites and Elite Suites had some of the best R-ratings, largely because of the 3 1/4 inch walls with extra insulation. We've been in our Mobile Suites in temps ranging from 115 degrees down to -6 degrees and have been comfortable inside. The only cold weather issue we have had is the hot water line from the water manifold in the underbelly to the kitchen sink has froze up when it gets down to about 0 degrees.
For clarification, we RV differently than the others here. So far, after retiring, we have lived 20 months in the Colorado Springs area, 17 months in the Grants Pass, Oregon area, and are now spending at least a year in Kanab, Utah. We like to stay long term so that we can see all that we can in an area before moving on. Also, that lets me photograph the area in all the seasons.
Good luck in your research and planning. You have definitely found a good source of information here at RV Dreams. Now, you just have to watch out for those of us that have our own peculiar ideas of what products are best. Personally, I'm a Ford guy.
Terry
Cyride said
07:59 PM Mar 20, 2018
Thanks Terry for the information!
My wife and I drove to Las Vegas a few years ago to watch my daughter play in a college golf tournament. We drove through the Kanab area and thought it was a beautiful place. We have put that area on our radar for the future. As for the truck, I tend to be a Ford guy too. But I have to admit after looking at the Dodge it is a close call all the way around. I looked at a gas GMC SRW, that was before I came to my senses and decided to go with a diesel DRW.
One of the topics I have struggled with is RV length. The toy haulers tend to run long, we have looked at them in 38 to 44 feet. I have called a number of parks for accommodation information, including Yellowstone, to get an idea on what could be too long. The other thing I have concerns about is going from a two axle to three axle RV when you get over 39 feet. I will continue to research those topics.
While looking at 5th wheel toy haulers one of the salesmen indicated the manufactures may not honor warranties for "full time" RV users. When I asked him what the definition of a "full timer" was, he couldn't answer the question. I even asked one of the manufacturers representatives and he couldn't answer the question. Our plans are to spend 2 to 3 months in our RV in the summer and 3 to 4 months in the winter. Is there an answer for what determines if you are full time? Seems like a very gray area!
have heard this before but never personally from a dealer. I have had to have warranty service and was never asked if I used my rig full time and even if they did ask you could simply say "no". In your situation you indicate only 5-6 months of use so, no, that would not be "full time". Just a rule of thumb: only believe 25% or less of what a salesman tells you has been my experience.
-- Edited by Workinrvers on Monday 19th of March 2018 06:44:56 AM
Some years ago, when we were doing our research, we wondered about that same question. At that time we were told that they normal RV warranty is one year and the manufacturers consider that the RV will be used about 60 days during that year. That would mean that a full-timer puts on six years of wear and tear each year.
Some manufacturers have some lines/models that are rated for full-time, meaning that those are made of (generally) heavier/stronger/higher quality materials. Often the advertising materials will have some sort of statement about full-time use, either approving or specifically disapproving such use. If a particular coach is not approved for full-time use it doesn't mean that it is junk, just that is isn't made for such use. The price will generally also reflect that.
Full-time coaches are generally the larger ones, are heavier, and more expensive. Yes, people can and do full-time in all sorts of rigs, but most of us want something large enough to hold everything we will need on the road AND have space to be comfortable inside when conditions outside aren't so pleasant.
One thing to check is the difference between the coach's empty (dry) weight and the gross vehicle weight rating. Most people figure on 1-2,000 pounds of "stuff" per person, so you should find a reasonable difference between maximum weight and empty weight. Don't forget to allow for water, propane, the second a/c, etc. that aren't counted in the advertising material.
Rob
Thanks for all the input!!!!
Jon
Jon,
While I would agree that your description of your intended use would not classify you as full-time RV'ers, that sort of thing could a situation where the manufacturer/dealer would determine on a case by case basis. I asked the same question when we were researching for our RV (a two year process, by the way) and had at least one RV manufacturer representative say, "just don't tell us you are full-time." The thought that a technician at a dealership could say that "they look like they live in it full time" and decide to deny warranty service was enough reason for us to ignore a brand if they didn't specifically say they warranted full timers.
We looked at both motorhomes and fifth wheel RV's in our research and determined that we would be living in ours in cold climates, so we paid close attention to what the various RV's did for insulation. At the time, DRV's Mobile Suites and Elite Suites had some of the best R-ratings, largely because of the 3 1/4 inch walls with extra insulation. We've been in our Mobile Suites in temps ranging from 115 degrees down to -6 degrees and have been comfortable inside. The only cold weather issue we have had is the hot water line from the water manifold in the underbelly to the kitchen sink has froze up when it gets down to about 0 degrees.
For clarification, we RV differently than the others here. So far, after retiring, we have lived 20 months in the Colorado Springs area, 17 months in the Grants Pass, Oregon area, and are now spending at least a year in Kanab, Utah. We like to stay long term so that we can see all that we can in an area before moving on. Also, that lets me photograph the area in all the seasons.
Good luck in your research and planning. You have definitely found a good source of information here at RV Dreams. Now, you just have to watch out for those of us that have our own peculiar ideas of what products are best. Personally, I'm a Ford guy.
Terry
My wife and I drove to Las Vegas a few years ago to watch my daughter play in a college golf tournament. We drove through the Kanab area and thought it was a beautiful place. We have put that area on our radar for the future. As for the truck, I tend to be a Ford guy too. But I have to admit after looking at the Dodge it is a close call all the way around. I looked at a gas GMC SRW, that was before I came to my senses and decided to go with a diesel DRW.
One of the topics I have struggled with is RV length. The toy haulers tend to run long, we have looked at them in 38 to 44 feet. I have called a number of parks for accommodation information, including Yellowstone, to get an idea on what could be too long. The other thing I have concerns about is going from a two axle to three axle RV when you get over 39 feet. I will continue to research those topics.
Take care,
Jon