Who out there has done the research on the best ST tires to use on our RVs? Fifth wheels, Class A's, travel trailers, etc.
Not made in China, USA only. Has one brand name surfaced to the top of the line? In rearguards to reliability, wear and tear, etc?
Consumer Reports did not mention RV specific tires in one report I saw??
Thank you for any info you folks have.
RonC said
10:01 AM Aug 24, 2017
So ... ST tires are "Special Trailer" tires and wouldn't be used on Class A's at all. To some degree this is a personal preference decision and the size of the rig will dictate what is available. The thing about ST tires is that they are limited to 65 MPH as a "speed rating". While that may be fine for some, others like a higher limit. There may be other brands that people have had good luck with but 3 brands are often mentioned positively 1. Goodyear 2. Michelin 3. Sailun. I have a "middle weight" 5th wheel (17,300 lbs GVW) and personally use Goodyear LT G114 H rated tires. Lighter rigs need less, heavier rigs will probably use something similar. Tires is a "big deal" subject as so much ... literally ... is riding on them. Not a place to skimp IMO. Good Luck with your search.
LarryW21 said
10:59 AM Aug 24, 2017
The key to TT tires for me is proper inflation, never overloading, keeping speed down, equal weight on each tire, moving from Load range Cs to Ds or Ds to Es, inspecting frequently for road damage and replacement every four years minimum rather than one brand over another. Trashing every tire made in China is silly.
-- Edited by LarryW21 on Thursday 24th of August 2017 12:02:54 PM
hostage said
07:39 PM Aug 24, 2017
I could care less if there made in the usa lots of good well known name brand tires like Michelin(example) are made in France brazil Germany etc
AS other have said ST tires are trailer rated only not for use on A C B etc
I personally bought Hercules chineses tire for MY DP 2958022.5 they were $392 verses Michelin at $800
I don't travel much and these will outlast the MH
RonC said
08:01 PM Aug 24, 2017
hostage wrote:
I could care less if there made in the usa lots of good well known name brand tires like Michelin(example) are made in France brazil Germany etc AS other have said ST tires are trailer rated only not for use on A C B etc I personally bought Hercules chineses tire for MY DP 2958022.5 they were $392 verses Michelin at $800 I don't travel much and these will outlast the MH
Just a couple of thoughts to add to where this thread seems to be going ... "I don't travel much and these will outlast the MH" is a hope, not a fact. There are some tires that are made in other places than the US that are OK ... but ALL the US made tires are OK (this is a fact). Tires made in China are cheaper for a reason. Sailun is made in China and seems to be OK. Most other tires of Chinese origin seem to fail at a higher rate than is acceptable. Tires are a safety related purchase, don't go cheap because it will cost you more to pay less.
hostage said
08:18 PM Aug 24, 2017
RonC wrote:
hostage wrote:
I could care less if there made in the usa lots of good well known name brand tires like Michelin(example) are made in France brazil Germany etc AS other have said ST tires are trailer rated only not for use on A C B etc I personally bought Hercules chineses tire for MY DP 2958022.5 they were $392 verses Michelin at $800 I don't travel much and these will outlast the MH
Just a couple of thoughts to add to where this thread seems to be going ... "I don't travel much and these will outlast the MH" is a hope, not a fact. There are some tires that are made in other places than the US that are OK ... but ALL the US made tires are OK (this is a fact). Tires made in China are cheaper for a reason. Sailun is made in China and seems to be OK. Most other tires of Chinese origin seem to fail at a higher rate than is acceptable. Tires are a safety related purchase, don't go cheap because it will cost you more to pay less.
LOL there are millions of Hercules tires(chinese) on TRansports trucks all over NA;;if they had a high failure rate why are OTR truckers syill using them all tires made in the USA are not OK read the storys on forums of Firestones a few years back(remember the law suits) or current day goodyears blowing out on large A MH etc give your head a shake us tires are no better than Canadian or English or Japanese or Germany etc
Rickl said
09:34 PM Aug 24, 2017
This is a fact, most commercial fleets on the road today run 5 manufactures for the most part. These 5 represent approximately 90% of the tires on the road (no particular order) Bridgestone (which includes Firestone and Dayton brands), Goodyear (includes Kelly Springfield), Michelin (includes BF Goodrich), Continental (includes General), and Yokohama. Chinese made/branded makes/models are a small portion of what is sold out in the market place. The reason is simple, they don't perform to the levels of these 5 major brands. Especially when it comes to retreading the casing.
As far as the "Firestone" debacle/lawsuits I can write a ten page opinion on the reason but let me sum it quickly - lack of maintenance and Ford lowering the recommended air pressure to help prevent rollover issues. The recommended air pressure took every bit of "load carrying capacity cushion" out of the equation. Then when the tire were run just 2-3 lbs less then the recommended pressure they were overloaded, plus the only issues showed up in AZ at high speeds at high temperatures.
RonC said it best, but I'll rob from an old Fram commercial - pay me now or pay me a lot more later.
hostage said
09:51 PM Aug 24, 2017
$I put 3500 miles per year on my diesel pusher iam not putting on $800 junk michelins when there are other tires just as adequate for under 400$ I don't give a **** where there made to be frank
ford was partly to blame but firestone was sued and held liable also however my point was NOT all Tires made in the states are OK as the poster tries to say
they all have there share of failures
-- Edited by hostage on Thursday 24th of August 2017 09:52:34 PM
-- Edited by hostage on Thursday 24th of August 2017 09:54:29 PM
-- Edited by hostage on Thursday 24th of August 2017 09:55:09 PM
Barbaraok said
10:04 PM Aug 24, 2017
Since you put so little mileage on your tires, you really need to have as good a tire as possible. Tires are made to be used and when not in use the plasticizers aren't being worked through the tire. I trust you do keep them covered. Age and UV/SMOG are the problems for MH tires.
We run Toyos since they were OEMs for our coach and have been very happy with them. Yes, they are a truck tire, but we are very happy with them.
hostage said
07:19 AM Aug 25, 2017
Barbaraok wrote:
Since you put so little mileage on your tires, you really need to have as good a tire as possible. Tires are made to be used and when not in use the plasticizers aren't being worked through the tire. I trust you do keep them covered. Age and UV/SMOG are the problems for MH tires.
We run Toyos since they were OEMs for our coach and have been very happy with them. Yes, they are a truck tire, but we are very happy with them.
don't know where you heard that, but thats BS;; using mh 3500 miles per year verses say 7500 has no bearing on the tire other than the tread wear
RonC said
08:04 AM Aug 25, 2017
TOMMASO ... Looks like you are getting a lot of feedback on your question. Read it all and then use your own best judgement. Personally I believe in the wisdom of the many not the few. There is good advice here (some) and there is some not so good, but you can figure out which is which for yourself. There is no one best tire ... but there are several with excellent reputations. Choose the tire that works for you and, again, good luck.
BiggarView said
08:28 AM Aug 25, 2017
hostage... For as little mileage as you're putting on them, you could never have a failure issue, (3500 or 7500 miles per year will likely not matter significantly, neither is what I'd call even moderate mileage for a tire.) however you'll almost certainly have a tire age issue. Virtual every tire on the road will last around six or seven years give or take a year or two depending on build quality, application and design notwithstanding tire wear from normal use, and car and truck tires typical are driven sufficient miles to need replacement due to wearing out rather than ageing out (road hazards excluded). There is plenty of data, both anecdotally and from tire manufacturers on failure rates as tires age. It's one of the reasons they are required to date stamp on the tire sidewall. Tires, without fail, decompose or otherwise become less "flexible" as they age no matter how well you take care of them or how little you drive them. Yes, you can slow this process to a degree but you can't stop it. It's science. Most RVers will experience ageing out before wearing out in typical situations, and assuming they are responsible owners will replace aged out tires in a timely manner rather than push the envelope on old tires. This doesn't account for the type of abuse that results from overloading (very common), side scuffing, travel on poor roads etc. which will dramatically decrease tire life no matter what. Even "800 dollar junk michelins", as you put it, will fail if abused. I suspect better tires will cost more than inferior tires... for obvious reasons. You choose.
Barb's general recommendations are sound, as to tire brand... a choice. Barb's experience seems to work for her.
JHMO
-- Edited by BiggarView on Friday 25th of August 2017 08:43:53 AM
TOMMASO said
11:53 AM Aug 25, 2017
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this subject.
RonC is inline with my thought process saying, a few tire brands have Excellent Reputations and to believe in the wisdom of many not a few.
My interest is in the fifth wheel and travel trailer side of RVs. I also believe very strongly in checking tire PSI before each trip/daily and being aware of overloading.
So let's perform a quick/few words "Survey" on what tires you are using now. I'd find it interesting to see what brands are mentioned most often.
I ran GoodRide GR 960 A-ST 235/85R 16 Load range G 14PR tires on my Bighorn fifth wheel with no problems even with China made, reputation/nickname CHINA BOMBS because of all the blowouts.
My habit of Daily psi checks, proper overall carrying weight, and feeling up (🙊) my tires every time I stopped at a rest area for heated up tires, gave me confidence I'd make my destination safely.
Thanks again for your responses.
FastEagle said
01:46 PM Aug 25, 2017
Ron said; There are some tires that are made in other places than the US that are OK ... but ALL the US made tires are OK (this is a fact).
Ron, I've been writing about ST tires for more than 15 years and know for a fact that the Goodyear Marathons were first made in the USA and had a dismal failure reputation. It got worse when they sent them to a China plant. The same can be said of the first G614 steel cased tires.
Goodyear is now building another ST tire brand in a USA plant. It will take awhile before any accurate (other than anecdotal) feedback as to their worthiness and durability is available. However, Goodyear has a history of providing reimbursement for damages.
FastEagle said
01:57 PM Aug 25, 2017
Rickl wrote:
This is a fact, most commercial fleets on the road today run 5 manufactures for the most part. These 5 represent approximately 90% of the tires on the road (no particular order) Bridgestone (which includes Firestone and Dayton brands), Goodyear (includes Kelly Springfield), Michelin (includes BF Goodrich), Continental (includes General), and Yokohama. Chinese made/branded makes/models are a small portion of what is sold out in the market place. The reason is simple, they don't perform to the levels of these 5 major brands. Especially when it comes to retreading the casing.
As far as the "Firestone" debacle/lawsuits I can write a ten page opinion on the reason but let me sum it quickly - lack of maintenance and Ford lowering the recommended air pressure to help prevent rollover issues. The recommended air pressure took every bit of "load carrying capacity cushion" out of the equation. Then when the tire were run just 2-3 lbs less then the recommended pressure they were overloaded, plus the only issues showed up in AZ at high speeds at high temperatures.
RonC said it best, but I'll rob from an old Fram commercial - pay me now or pay me a lot more later.
When one uses a comparison between commercial use and RV tire usage it is muddied because the tires are governed by different sets of rules. Commercial tires are governed by FMCSA regulations. All RV tires - any design - are governed by FMVSS standards.
When large truck tires are used on RVs - any type - they are governed by FMVSS standards. Many MH owners may argue that point. Does your MH have a FMVSS certification label? It answers the question.
LarryW21 said
02:07 PM Aug 25, 2017
TT - Provider ST215/75R14 Radial Trailer Tire - Load Range D from Etrailer
TV - Firestone Destination LE2
-- Edited by LarryW21 on Friday 25th of August 2017 02:08:06 PM
Barbaraok said
02:11 PM Aug 25, 2017
Fast Eagle, not sure I understand your point? We run Toyo truck tires because they were OEMs and we have had good service from them. They can handle the weight, which is what we care about. Also haven't the foggiest idea where a tires certification label would be located. Toyo did have certain tires designated as RV tires until One of the manufacturers put inadequate tires on and there were lawsuits. Toyo did away with 'RV' labeling, but same tires still available.
FastEagle said
02:30 PM Aug 25, 2017
TOMMASO wrote:
Who out there has done the research on the best ST tires to use on our RVs? Fifth wheels, Class A's, travel trailers, etc.
Not made in China, USA only. Has one brand name surfaced to the top of the line? In rearguards to reliability, wear and tear, etc?
Consumer Reports did not mention RV specific tires in one report I saw??
Thank you for any info you folks have.
It's already been pointed out but I'll do it again. ST tires are designed strictly for trailer service and cannot be used on motorized vehicles.
$$$$$ are the big answer for China made tires. ST and other designs qualify for tariff reductions and mostly from China tire manufacturers. The ST tire is not as labor intensive as other designs. Adding that to the tax savings will make them very desirable for any USA RV manufacturer.
The best of anything is a personal decision. Personal experience, Recommendations, he said, she said, unbiased (?) publication reports can all play a part in individual selections for the best of any product. I don't recommend brands, I don't even like to say what brand tires I personally use. I've been around awhile. I've had the good and the bad and even some of the really good. I've not knowingly ever had the best. I don't cut corners but I do like quality at any price, the lower the better.
There are numerous tires that provide extra durability. They cost the most. They age out just like others with less durability. Durability does not add strength to a tire, it just allows the tire to take more physical punishment. Taller treads = more mileage. Regrooveable/retreadable = mainly for high mileage users. Extra steel belt for penetration protection. Extra sidewall rubber for curb striking protection. Most of the smaller ST tires - 14" and less - are just basic design tires without any frills.
FastEagle said
02:37 PM Aug 25, 2017
Barbaraok wrote:
Fast Eagle, not sure I understand your point? We run Toyo truck tires because they were OEMs and we have had good service from them. They can handle the weight, which is what we care about. Also haven't the foggiest idea where a tires certification label would be located. Toyo did have certain tires designated as RV tires until One of the manufacturers put inadequate tires on and there were lawsuits. Toyo did away with 'RV' labeling, but same tires still available.
This reference shows a tire placard and vehicle certification label.
The label shall be affixed to either the hinge pillar, door-latch post, or the door edge that meets the door-latch post, next to the driver's seating position, or if none of these locations is practicable, to the left side of the instrument panel. If that location is also not practicable, the label shall be affixed to the inward-facing surface of the door next to the driver's seating position. If none of the preceding locations is practicable, notification of that fact, together with drawings or photographs showing a suggested alternate location in the same general area, shall be submitted for approval to the Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Washington, D.C. 20590. The location of the label shall be such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except an outer door.
Toyo tire reference.
https://www.toyotires.com/safety-info
-- Edited by FastEagle on Friday 25th of August 2017 02:41:31 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Friday 25th of August 2017 02:49:47 PM
RonC said
04:32 PM Aug 25, 2017
FastEagle wrote:
Ron said; There are some tires that are made in other places than the US that are OK ... but ALL the US made tires are OK (this is a fact).
Ron, I've been writing about ST tires for more than 15 years and know for a fact that the Goodyear Marathons were first made in the USA and had a dismal failure reputation. It got worse when they sent them to a China plant. The same can be said of the first G614 steel cased tires.
Goodyear is now building another ST tire brand in a USA plant. It will take awhile before any accurate (other than anecdotal) feedback as to their worthiness and durability is available. However, Goodyear has a history of providing reimbursement for damages.
No argument from me regarding GY Marathons or early G614's ... but that is historical information and not applicable to this discussion of which current tires to buy. The current GY Marathons would be still on my "do not buy" list. GY has a new ST (US made) tire called Endurance which seems to be better than the Chinese made Marathons, but you are correct that most of this is anecdotal. The current GY G614's are US made and reliable in their load range. Regarding the US made thing ... the manufacturing standards that exist and the litigious environment of the US made US made products to be more likely to perform as advertised and as intended.
Barbaraok said
10:26 PM Aug 25, 2017
FastEagle,
Yes, we have a statement about tire size, load, etc., where the generator slide opens (near front tires). It is very generic and does not specify any make.
Still do not understand this statement: " Commercial tires are governed by FMCSA regulations. All RV tires - any design - are governed by FMVSS standards. "
Are you suggesting that we can't put truck tires on our RV?
Barb
FastEagle said
12:02 AM Aug 26, 2017
Barbaraok wrote:
FastEagle,
Yes, we have a statement about tire size, load, etc., where the generator slide opens (near front tires). It is very generic and does not specify any make.
Still do not understand this statement: " Commercial tires are governed by FMCSA regulations. All RV tires - any design - are governed by FMVSS standards. "
Are you suggesting that we can't put truck tires on our RV?
Barb
I'm saying that FMCSA regulations are not applicable to tires - any design - used on vehicles built using FMVSS standards.
The certification label provides the tire information that describes the Original Equipment tires by size and gives a recommended inflation pressure for all positions. That information is the minimum safe requirement for those tires on that vehicle. All tires in that size, regardless of brand will provide the same load capacity at the recommended inflation pressures.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Saturday 26th of August 2017 12:27:35 AM
Barbaraok said
12:08 AM Aug 26, 2017
And what does that mean?
hostage said
09:07 AM Aug 26, 2017
Barbaraok wrote:
And what does that mean?
come on now? its pretty simple to understand
commercial vehicle minimum tire requirements are mandated by FMCSA and RV vehicle minimum standards are dictated by
FMVSS
Barbaraok said
09:52 AM Aug 26, 2017
And, what does that mean to those of us who run with heavy truck tires on our Diesel Pushers? Are the tire police going to stop us and demand that we replace them. Are they going to explode on us, fall off going down the highway?
hostage said
09:57 AM Aug 26, 2017
Barbaraok wrote:
And, what does that mean to those of us who run with heavy truck tires on our Diesel Pushers? Are the tire police going to stop us and demand that we replace them. Are they going to explode on us, fall off going down the highway?
LOL I guess the answer is yes LOL;; the old ask a stupid question and you get a stupid answer ;;;
FastEagle said
12:02 PM Aug 26, 2017
Barbaraok wrote:
And, what does that mean to those of us who run with heavy truck tires on our Diesel Pushers? Are the tire police going to stop us and demand that we replace them. Are they going to explode on us, fall off going down the highway?
What it all means is; The vehicle manufacturer's Original Equipment (OE) tires described on the vehicle's certification label are an appropriate fitment for your vehicle. Replacements must also be appropriate and provide a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires provide - by inflation. The design and brand of tires are a personal choice. A MH tire is just another truck tire design, supposedly more suited for that service. You can also get them designed for drive, steer or any position on the axles.
The best thing to remember is the vehicle manufacturer's tire fitments are, one, they must meet the minimum standards for that fitment and two, the vehicle manufacturer has the sole responsibility for all OE fitments and their recommended cold in inflation pressures and three, the standards tell them they must be an appropriate fitment. Anything less and they are subject to recall.
All vehicle owner's manuals have a section about it's tires. Most of the information in that section is mandated to be there by NHTSA. Maybe you should read it sometimes.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Saturday 26th of August 2017 12:03:18 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Saturday 26th of August 2017 12:05:06 PM
Barbaraok said
12:39 PM Aug 26, 2017
"Replacements must also be appropriate and provide a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires provide - by inflation"
And they do. I'm just trying to understand why the big flap about not using 'RV Tires' on a diesel pusher when there are truck tires of the correct size, etc. I don't worry about a 'softer' ride, my air bags/shocks take care of that.
hostage said
02:35 PM Aug 26, 2017
Barbaraok wrote:
"Replacements must also be appropriate and provide a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires provide - by inflation"
And they do. I'm just trying to understand why the big flap about not using 'RV Tires' on a diesel pusher when there are truck tires of the correct size, etc. I don't worry about a 'softer' ride, my air bags/shocks take care of that.
come on here now !! You clearly do not understand the whole ideal here ;; your most certainly no tire or Rv expert
by a long ways;; there is no flap except the one your instigating
Barbaraok said
05:47 PM Aug 26, 2017
Paul,
I don't know why you have decided to be caustic with me. I'm trying to understand why running heavy duty truck tires is a no-no from the 'experts'? I have the correct size on, inflated to the correct pressure for our weight on the front and back axle (yes, we do weigh the rig), we replace every 7-8 years and prefer the Toyos.
hostage said
06:35 PM Aug 26, 2017
Barbaraok wrote:
Paul,
I don't know why you have decided to be caustic with me. I'm trying to understand why running heavy duty truck tires is a no-no from the 'experts'? I have the correct size on, inflated to the correct pressure for our weight on the front and back axle (yes, we do weigh the rig), we replace every 7-8 years and prefer the Toyos.
either you are dumb or looking for a confrontation or both ;; theres not one poster here that said truck tires are a no no
so really other than that you do not have a clue as to what your talking about so I have no answer
FastEagle said
06:54 PM Aug 26, 2017
Barbaraok wrote:
Paul,
I don't know why you have decided to be caustic with me. I'm trying to understand why running heavy duty truck tires is a no-no from the 'experts'? I have the correct size on, inflated to the correct pressure for our weight on the front and back axle (yes, we do weigh the rig), we replace every 7-8 years and prefer the Toyos.
You're not reading what people are telling you. I wrote this in a previous post....The design and brand of tires are a personal choice. A MH tire is just another truck tire design, supposedly more suited for that service. You can also get them designed for drive, steer or any position on the axles.
Did you bounce your question about truck tires off your MHs manufacturer? Your owner's manual also suggests owners do that when seeking replacement tires.
Barbaraok said
07:40 PM Aug 26, 2017
Since the manufacturer of our coach went belly up during the '08 decimation, no one to ask. You are the one who brought up
" When one uses a comparison between commercial use and RV tire usage it is muddied because the tires are governed by different sets of rules. Commercial tires are governed by FMCSA regulations. All RV tires - any design - are governed by FMVSS standards. "
This implies that there are regulations that must be followed and running commericial truck tires would somehow be outside of those regulations on a motorhome. Otherwise, why bring it up? I am truly trying to understand why this is a big deal. And not just in this thread, but I've seen various threads where people get quite indignant at the idea of using truck tires, not "RV" tires, on motorhomes, as if we are deluded and will soon be in the ditch because of it.
I spent 20+ yrs up to my eyeballs in EH&S regulations and my ears/eyes always prick up when "regulations" are cited as I want to understand how that impacts what we are doing.
hostage said
07:47 PM Aug 26, 2017
barb u have no idea what so ever so give it a rest and lets all move on
TOMMASO said
08:33 PM Aug 26, 2017
Seems like we steered away from my simple "Survey" question?? I'm just looking to do a quick count of the most often used/popular named tire? Spit it out folks 🤡
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this subject.
RonC is inline with my thought process saying, a few tire brands have Excellent Reputations and to believe in the wisdom of many not a few.
My interest is in the fifth wheel and travel trailer side of RVs. I also believe very strongly in checking tire PSI before each trip/daily and being aware of overloading.
So let's perform a quick/few words "Survey" on what tires you are using now. I'd find it interesting to see what brands are mentioned most often.
Rickl said
09:04 PM Aug 26, 2017
FastEagle wrote:
Rickl wrote:
This is a fact, most commercial fleets on the road today run 5 manufactures for the most part. These 5 represent approximately 90% of the tires on the road (no particular order) Bridgestone (which includes Firestone and Dayton brands), Goodyear (includes Kelly Springfield), Michelin (includes BF Goodrich), Continental (includes General), and Yokohama. Chinese made/branded makes/models are a small portion of what is sold out in the market place. The reason is simple, they don't perform to the levels of these 5 major brands. Especially when it comes to retreading the casing.
As far as the "Firestone" debacle/lawsuits I can write a ten page opinion on the reason but let me sum it quickly - lack of maintenance and Ford lowering the recommended air pressure to help prevent rollover issues. The recommended air pressure took every bit of "load carrying capacity cushion" out of the equation. Then when the tire were run just 2-3 lbs less then the recommended pressure they were overloaded, plus the only issues showed up in AZ at high speeds at high temperatures.
RonC said it best, but I'll rob from an old Fram commercial - pay me now or pay me a lot more later.
When one uses a comparison between commercial use and RV tire usage it is muddied because the tires are governed by different sets of rules. Commercial tires are governed by FMCSA regulations. All RV tires - any design - are governed by FMVSS standards.
When large truck tires are used on RVs - any type - they are governed by FMVSS standards. Many MH owners may argue that point. Does your MH have a FMVSS certification label? It answers the question.
Not to get into a huge discussion or create a problem, but FMVSS oversees all tires. FMCSA dictates the pull point of the tires in commercial applications. They do not regulate the other components of the tire.
Cummins12V98 said
08:27 AM Aug 27, 2017
US Made GY tires for all my RV's and now the GY Endurance for my tandem axle boat trailer.
TOMMASO said
12:36 PM Aug 27, 2017
Thank you Cummins12V98 👊🏻
Anybody else?
RonC said
03:36 PM Aug 27, 2017
My 5er tires in my first post (GY G114 H rated). Truck is new and came with B.F. Goodrich.
FastEagle said
04:44 PM Aug 27, 2017
Barbaraok wrote:
Since the manufacturer of our coach went belly up during the '08 decimation, no one to ask. You are the one who brought up
" When one uses a comparison between commercial use and RV tire usage it is muddied because the tires are governed by different sets of rules. Commercial tires are governed by FMCSA regulations. All RV tires - any design - are governed by FMVSS standards. "
This implies that there are regulations that must be followed and running commericial truck tires would somehow be outside of those regulations on a motorhome. Otherwise, why bring it up? I am truly trying to understand why this is a big deal. And not just in this thread, but I've seen various threads where people get quite indignant at the idea of using truck tires, not "RV" tires, on motorhomes, as if we are deluded and will soon be in the ditch because of it.
I spent 20+ yrs up to my eyeballs in EH&S regulations and my ears/eyes always prick up when "regulations" are cited as I want to understand how that impacts what we are doing.
" When one uses a comparison between commercial use and RV tire usage it is muddied because the tires are governed by different sets of rules. Commercial (use) tires are governed by FMCSA regulations. All RV tires (fitted to RV axles) - any design - are governed by FMVSS standards. "
OK, let me clear that up for you. The trucking industry may use many of the low platform truck tires for their "53" foot commercial trailers. Because many RV Motor Home owners use the same tires they often think the FMCSA regulations apply to the fitment of so called commercial tires on their MHs. They do not. All the tires used by truckers on their tow vehicles, classified as commercial vehicles also are governed by FMCSA regulations.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 04:45:10 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 04:47:24 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 04:49:33 PM
FastEagle said
04:59 PM Aug 27, 2017
Rickl wrote:
FastEagle wrote:
Rickl wrote:
This is a fact, most commercial fleets on the road today run 5 manufactures for the most part. These 5 represent approximately 90% of the tires on the road (no particular order) Bridgestone (which includes Firestone and Dayton brands), Goodyear (includes Kelly Springfield), Michelin (includes BF Goodrich), Continental (includes General), and Yokohama. Chinese made/branded makes/models are a small portion of what is sold out in the market place. The reason is simple, they don't perform to the levels of these 5 major brands. Especially when it comes to retreading the casing.
As far as the "Firestone" debacle/lawsuits I can write a ten page opinion on the reason but let me sum it quickly - lack of maintenance and Ford lowering the recommended air pressure to help prevent rollover issues. The recommended air pressure took every bit of "load carrying capacity cushion" out of the equation. Then when the tire were run just 2-3 lbs less then the recommended pressure they were overloaded, plus the only issues showed up in AZ at high speeds at high temperatures.
RonC said it best, but I'll rob from an old Fram commercial - pay me now or pay me a lot more later.
When one uses a comparison between commercial use and RV tire usage it is muddied because the tires are governed by different sets of rules. Commercial tires are governed by FMCSA regulations. All RV tires - any design - are governed by FMVSS standards.
When large truck tires are used on RVs - any type - they are governed by FMVSS standards. Many MH owners may argue that point. Does your MH have a FMVSS certification label? It answers the question.
Not to get into a huge discussion or create a problem, but FMVSS oversees all tires. FMCSA dictates the pull point of the tires in commercial applications. They do not regulate the other components of the tire.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 05:05:12 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 05:05:37 PM
A point to look for. FMCSA does not require recommended tire inflation pressures. FMVSS standards tells all vehicle manufacturers to set an appropriate recommended cold tire inflation pressure for all tires fitted to the vehicle's axles. They also have a paragraph about spare tires.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 05:11:57 PM
I went back and read some of my filed documents on this subject and think I see where you are coming from. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration NHTSA writes the documents we are writing about here. The FMCSA regulations are written strictly for the trucking industry and the FMVSS standards are written strictly for the automotiveindustry. NHTSA promulgates all such regulations/standards.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 05:27:27 PM
Who out there has done the research on the best ST tires to use on our RVs? Fifth wheels, Class A's, travel trailers, etc.
Not made in China, USA only. Has one brand name surfaced to the top of the line? In rearguards to reliability, wear and tear, etc?
Consumer Reports did not mention RV specific tires in one report I saw??
Thank you for any info you folks have.
The key to TT tires for me is proper inflation, never overloading, keeping speed down, equal weight on each tire, moving from Load range Cs to Ds or Ds to Es, inspecting frequently for road damage and replacement every four years minimum rather than one brand over another. Trashing every tire made in China is silly.
-- Edited by LarryW21 on Thursday 24th of August 2017 12:02:54 PM
AS other have said ST tires are trailer rated only not for use on A C B etc
I personally bought Hercules chineses tire for MY DP 2958022.5 they were $392 verses Michelin at $800
I don't travel much and these will outlast the MH
Just a couple of thoughts to add to where this thread seems to be going ... "I don't travel much and these will outlast the MH" is a hope, not a fact. There are some tires that are made in other places than the US that are OK ... but ALL the US made tires are OK (this is a fact). Tires made in China are cheaper for a reason. Sailun is made in China and seems to be OK. Most other tires of Chinese origin seem to fail at a higher rate than is acceptable. Tires are a safety related purchase, don't go cheap because it will cost you more to pay less.
LOL there are millions of Hercules tires(chinese) on TRansports trucks all over NA;;if they had a high failure rate why are OTR truckers syill using them all tires made in the USA are not OK read the storys on forums of Firestones a few years back(remember the law suits) or current day goodyears blowing out on large A MH etc give your head a shake us tires are no better than Canadian or English or Japanese or Germany etc
As far as the "Firestone" debacle/lawsuits I can write a ten page opinion on the reason but let me sum it quickly - lack of maintenance and Ford lowering the recommended air pressure to help prevent rollover issues. The recommended air pressure took every bit of "load carrying capacity cushion" out of the equation. Then when the tire were run just 2-3 lbs less then the recommended pressure they were overloaded, plus the only issues showed up in AZ at high speeds at high temperatures.
RonC said it best, but I'll rob from an old Fram commercial - pay me now or pay me a lot more later.
$I put 3500 miles per year on my diesel pusher iam not putting on $800 junk michelins when there are other tires just as adequate for under 400$
I don't give a **** where there made to be frank
ford was partly to blame but firestone was sued and held liable also however my point was NOT all Tires made in the states are OK as the poster tries to say
they all have there share of failures
-- Edited by hostage on Thursday 24th of August 2017 09:52:34 PM
-- Edited by hostage on Thursday 24th of August 2017 09:54:29 PM
-- Edited by hostage on Thursday 24th of August 2017 09:55:09 PM
We run Toyos since they were OEMs for our coach and have been very happy with them. Yes, they are a truck tire, but we are very happy with them.
don't know where you heard that, but thats BS;; using mh 3500 miles per year verses say 7500 has no bearing on the tire other than the tread wear
hostage... For as little mileage as you're putting on them, you could never have a failure issue, (3500 or 7500 miles per year will likely not matter significantly, neither is what I'd call even moderate mileage for a tire.) however you'll almost certainly have a tire age issue. Virtual every tire on the road will last around six or seven years give or take a year or two depending on build quality, application and design notwithstanding tire wear from normal use, and car and truck tires typical are driven sufficient miles to need replacement due to wearing out rather than ageing out (road hazards excluded). There is plenty of data, both anecdotally and from tire manufacturers on failure rates as tires age. It's one of the reasons they are required to date stamp on the tire sidewall. Tires, without fail, decompose or otherwise become less "flexible" as they age no matter how well you take care of them or how little you drive them. Yes, you can slow this process to a degree but you can't stop it. It's science. Most RVers will experience ageing out before wearing out in typical situations, and assuming they are responsible owners will replace aged out tires in a timely manner rather than push the envelope on old tires. This doesn't account for the type of abuse that results from overloading (very common), side scuffing, travel on poor roads etc. which will dramatically decrease tire life no matter what. Even "800 dollar junk michelins", as you put it, will fail if abused. I suspect better tires will cost more than inferior tires... for obvious reasons. You choose.
Barb's general recommendations are sound, as to tire brand... a choice. Barb's experience seems to work for her.
JHMO
-- Edited by BiggarView on Friday 25th of August 2017 08:43:53 AM
RonC is inline with my thought process saying, a few tire brands have Excellent Reputations and to believe in the wisdom of many not a few.
My interest is in the fifth wheel and travel trailer side of RVs. I also believe very strongly in checking tire PSI before each trip/daily and being aware of overloading.
So let's perform a quick/few words "Survey" on what tires you are using now. I'd find it interesting to see what brands are mentioned most often.
I ran GoodRide GR 960 A-ST 235/85R 16 Load range G 14PR tires on my Bighorn fifth wheel with no problems even with China made, reputation/nickname CHINA BOMBS because of all the blowouts.
My habit of Daily psi checks, proper overall carrying weight, and feeling up (🙊) my tires every time I stopped at a rest area for heated up tires, gave me confidence I'd make my destination safely.
Thanks again for your responses.
Ron, I've been writing about ST tires for more than 15 years and know for a fact that the Goodyear Marathons were first made in the USA and had a dismal failure reputation. It got worse when they sent them to a China plant. The same can be said of the first G614 steel cased tires.
Goodyear is now building another ST tire brand in a USA plant. It will take awhile before any accurate (other than anecdotal) feedback as to their worthiness and durability is available. However, Goodyear has a history of providing reimbursement for damages.
When one uses a comparison between commercial use and RV tire usage it is muddied because the tires are governed by different sets of rules. Commercial tires are governed by FMCSA regulations. All RV tires - any design - are governed by FMVSS standards.
When large truck tires are used on RVs - any type - they are governed by FMVSS standards. Many MH owners may argue that point. Does your MH have a FMVSS certification label? It answers the question.
TT - Provider ST215/75R14 Radial Trailer Tire - Load Range D from Etrailer
TV - Firestone Destination LE2
-- Edited by LarryW21 on Friday 25th of August 2017 02:08:06 PM
It's already been pointed out but I'll do it again. ST tires are designed strictly for trailer service and cannot be used on motorized vehicles.
$$$$$ are the big answer for China made tires. ST and other designs qualify for tariff reductions and mostly from China tire manufacturers. The ST tire is not as labor intensive as other designs. Adding that to the tax savings will make them very desirable for any USA RV manufacturer.
The best of anything is a personal decision. Personal experience, Recommendations, he said, she said, unbiased (?) publication reports can all play a part in individual selections for the best of any product. I don't recommend brands, I don't even like to say what brand tires I personally use. I've been around awhile. I've had the good and the bad and even some of the really good. I've not knowingly ever had the best. I don't cut corners but I do like quality at any price, the lower the better.
There are numerous tires that provide extra durability. They cost the most. They age out just like others with less durability. Durability does not add strength to a tire, it just allows the tire to take more physical punishment. Taller treads = more mileage. Regrooveable/retreadable = mainly for high mileage users. Extra steel belt for penetration protection. Extra sidewall rubber for curb striking protection. Most of the smaller ST tires - 14" and less - are just basic design tires without any frills.
This reference shows a tire placard and vehicle certification label.
http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=27429
The label shall be affixed to either the hinge pillar, door-latch post, or the door edge that meets the door-latch post, next to the driver's seating position, or if none of these locations is practicable, to the left side of the instrument panel. If that location is also not practicable, the label shall be affixed to the inward-facing surface of the door next to the driver's seating position. If none of the preceding locations is practicable, notification of that fact, together with drawings or photographs showing a suggested alternate location in the same general area, shall be submitted for approval to the Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Washington, D.C. 20590. The location of the label shall be such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except an outer door.
Toyo tire reference.
https://www.toyotires.com/safety-info
-- Edited by FastEagle on Friday 25th of August 2017 02:41:31 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Friday 25th of August 2017 02:49:47 PM
No argument from me regarding GY Marathons or early G614's ... but that is historical information and not applicable to this discussion of which current tires to buy. The current GY Marathons would be still on my "do not buy" list. GY has a new ST (US made) tire called Endurance which seems to be better than the Chinese made Marathons, but you are correct that most of this is anecdotal. The current GY G614's are US made and reliable in their load range. Regarding the US made thing ... the manufacturing standards that exist and the litigious environment of the US made US made products to be more likely to perform as advertised and as intended.
Yes, we have a statement about tire size, load, etc., where the generator slide opens (near front tires). It is very generic and does not specify any make.
Still do not understand this statement: " Commercial tires are governed by FMCSA regulations. All RV tires - any design - are governed by FMVSS standards. "
Are you suggesting that we can't put truck tires on our RV?
Barb
I'm saying that FMCSA regulations are not applicable to tires - any design - used on vehicles built using FMVSS standards.
The certification label provides the tire information that describes the Original Equipment tires by size and gives a recommended inflation pressure for all positions. That information is the minimum safe requirement for those tires on that vehicle. All tires in that size, regardless of brand will provide the same load capacity at the recommended inflation pressures.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Saturday 26th of August 2017 12:27:35 AM
come on now? its pretty simple to understand
commercial vehicle minimum tire requirements are mandated by FMCSA and RV vehicle minimum standards are dictated by
FMVSS
LOL I guess the answer is yes LOL;; the old ask a stupid question and you get a stupid answer ;;;
What it all means is; The vehicle manufacturer's Original Equipment (OE) tires described on the vehicle's certification label are an appropriate fitment for your vehicle. Replacements must also be appropriate and provide a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires provide - by inflation. The design and brand of tires are a personal choice. A MH tire is just another truck tire design, supposedly more suited for that service. You can also get them designed for drive, steer or any position on the axles.
The best thing to remember is the vehicle manufacturer's tire fitments are, one, they must meet the minimum standards for that fitment and two, the vehicle manufacturer has the sole responsibility for all OE fitments and their recommended cold in inflation pressures and three, the standards tell them they must be an appropriate fitment. Anything less and they are subject to recall.
All vehicle owner's manuals have a section about it's tires. Most of the information in that section is mandated to be there by NHTSA. Maybe you should read it sometimes.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Saturday 26th of August 2017 12:03:18 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Saturday 26th of August 2017 12:05:06 PM
And they do. I'm just trying to understand why the big flap about not using 'RV Tires' on a diesel pusher when there are truck tires of the correct size, etc. I don't worry about a 'softer' ride, my air bags/shocks take care of that.
come on here now !! You clearly do not understand the whole ideal here ;; your most certainly no tire or Rv expert
by a long ways;; there is no flap except the one your instigating
I don't know why you have decided to be caustic with me. I'm trying to understand why running heavy duty truck tires is a no-no from the 'experts'? I have the correct size on, inflated to the correct pressure for our weight on the front and back axle (yes, we do weigh the rig), we replace every 7-8 years and prefer the Toyos.
either you are dumb or looking for a confrontation or both ;; theres not one poster here that said truck tires are a no no
so really other than that you do not have a clue as to what your talking about so I have no answer
You're not reading what people are telling you. I wrote this in a previous post....The design and brand of tires are a personal choice. A MH tire is just another truck tire design, supposedly more suited for that service. You can also get them designed for drive, steer or any position on the axles.
Did you bounce your question about truck tires off your MHs manufacturer? Your owner's manual also suggests owners do that when seeking replacement tires.
" When one uses a comparison between commercial use and RV tire usage it is muddied because the tires are governed by different sets of rules. Commercial tires are governed by FMCSA regulations. All RV tires - any design - are governed by FMVSS standards. "
This implies that there are regulations that must be followed and running commericial truck tires would somehow be outside of those regulations on a motorhome. Otherwise, why bring it up? I am truly trying to understand why this is a big deal. And not just in this thread, but I've seen various threads where people get quite indignant at the idea of using truck tires, not "RV" tires, on motorhomes, as if we are deluded and will soon be in the ditch because of it.
I spent 20+ yrs up to my eyeballs in EH&S regulations and my ears/eyes always prick up when "regulations" are cited as I want to understand how that impacts what we are doing.
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this subject.
RonC is inline with my thought process saying, a few tire brands have Excellent Reputations and to believe in the wisdom of many not a few.
My interest is in the fifth wheel and travel trailer side of RVs. I also believe very strongly in checking tire PSI before each trip/daily and being aware of overloading.
So let's perform a quick/few words "Survey" on what tires you are using now. I'd find it interesting to see what brands are mentioned most often.
Not to get into a huge discussion or create a problem, but FMVSS oversees all tires. FMCSA dictates the pull point of the tires in commercial applications. They do not regulate the other components of the tire.
Anybody else?
" When one uses a comparison between commercial use and RV tire usage it is muddied because the tires are governed by different sets of rules. Commercial (use) tires are governed by FMCSA regulations. All RV tires (fitted to RV axles) - any design - are governed by FMVSS standards. "
OK, let me clear that up for you. The trucking industry may use many of the low platform truck tires for their "53" foot commercial trailers. Because many RV Motor Home owners use the same tires they often think the FMCSA regulations apply to the fitment of so called commercial tires on their MHs. They do not. All the tires used by truckers on their tow vehicles, classified as commercial vehicles also are governed by FMCSA regulations.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 04:45:10 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 04:47:24 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 04:49:33 PM
Show me, please.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/manufacturer_information_march2014.pdf
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title49-vol6/xml/CFR-2011-title49-vol6-sec571-120.xml
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 05:05:12 PM
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 05:05:37 PM
A point to look for. FMCSA does not require recommended tire inflation pressures. FMVSS standards tells all vehicle manufacturers to set an appropriate recommended cold tire inflation pressure for all tires fitted to the vehicle's axles. They also have a paragraph about spare tires.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 05:11:57 PM
I went back and read some of my filed documents on this subject and think I see where you are coming from. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration NHTSA writes the documents we are writing about here. The FMCSA regulations are written strictly for the trucking industry and the FMVSS standards are written strictly for the automotive industry. NHTSA promulgates all such regulations/standards.
-- Edited by FastEagle on Sunday 27th of August 2017 05:27:27 PM