Just a retired guy with a dog and cat, wants to tour the country visiting zoos and museums. Figure a few days to a week in each location. State parks, small clean campgrounds and open spaces probably preferred over the full entertainment KOA type places. Don't like the heat, will be North in the summer, South in the winter. This would be my full-time home.
I like the concept of turn the key and go, stop and throw out the anchor with a Class A and a dinghy. It seems to fit best a lifestyle where you move every week or so.
The 5th provides loads of room (38 feet seems a sweet spot). Once I get a routine down, might be ok to put up and take down by myself. Living aboard full-time I might really want the extra room. Might be more efficient in the winter months?
Both are about equal on amenities. Is maintenance cost about the same? Mileage? What else do I need to consider? Anyone experience both and live to tell about it?
RonC said
01:08 PM Jun 17, 2017
I have ZERO experience with a Class A ... but everyone that I know who has one really likes it. I do have an opinion about the gas vs diesel thing on a class A ... the gassers seem to be underpowered and due to engine location (in a dog house right up front with you) they will be louder than a DP in the rolling hills or mountains due to the frequent downshifts. On flat ground there is little difference between them in noise. Diesels are just better suited to moving heavy things than gas engines are, there is a reason that long haul trucks use diesels. I will get some heat from the gassers on this, but hey ... it's just MO so not a big deal. If you decide to go gas ... take a test ride to satisfy yourself. Oh, and there is that $100K plus difference to get a diesel. But a Class A diesel pusher is the most expensive of the RV options both to buy initially and to maintain. But if buying $600 tires (there are at least 6 of them and sometimes 8) or a $600 oil change makes you queasy ... maybe a Class A isn't for you.
5th wheels are a good compromise between cost and livability. In a 5th wheel you have a legit truck to run around in (admittedly a dually ... but I like that and not everyone does) with airbags and occupant protection cages built in which are important to me. I can get it serviced at just about every little town you go to ... certainly every one that has a Ford dealership and there are a LOT of those. The hook up of a 5th wheel and the hook up a toad are similar ... once you "get" the 5th wheel thing, it's pretty easy, but the learning curve is probably a little higher than the toad hook up, but having never hooked up a toad that is just a guess.
Everybody is pretty sure their decision is the best one, so I'm not going to take that position. I will say for us and our needs and budget (that whole money thing drives a lot of decisions), getting a new 5th wheel and and new truck (both were paid for with cash) were the best decision for us versus a 10 year old diesel pusher and the necessary 4 down toad we'd need. Our rig (truck and trailer) had a combined MSRP of $173,000 but a transaction price of $130,000. To get a DP in that price range you'd need to be in the 10 year old (or more) range. It's not the bus or engine or transmission that makes the 10 year old thing less desirable ... it's the technology and the styles and colors. A LOT has changed in the last 10 years and a 10 year old rig often looks ... well, 10 years old. All of this is just my opinion ... reminder. But it's a value proposition ... it's only worth it if it's worth it to you.
My diesel pusher friends wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in a 5th wheel and for them, that makes the DP the right choice.
There are a LOT of ways to do this ... none are "wrong". It's such an individual thing that all you are going to get is OPINIONS which aren't always unbiased. But you will collect information with which you can make your decision. There is a lot of information on this forum and some very smart long term RV folks ... listen to EVERYTHING they say and then make up your own mind ... you are the person writing the check.
Best of Luck and be safe,
Ron
-- Edited by RonC on Saturday 24th of June 2017 11:06:44 AM
Barbaraok said
01:24 PM Jun 17, 2017
With a Class A your dog AND CAT never have to 'move' out of their home on moving day. We've had our DP for 12 years, and started with. 2 cats and one of the decision pieces was never having to move the cats. Another plus, you pull into a rest stop, parking lot, park in the driving rain. Never have to get out to use toilet or get a drink from the fridge. Just sit and wait out the deluge.
If you are going up and down the Rockies, Sierras, Cascades several times each yr, get a DP. If spending all year on relatively flat land, go with gasser. You might want to look at some of the diesel Class Cs to see if they would fit your needs.
-- Edited by Barbaraok on Saturday 17th of June 2017 03:41:36 PM
LarryW21 said
02:28 PM Jun 17, 2017
RonC's analysis seems well done.
Lynn and Ed said
12:25 AM Jun 18, 2017
Given your goal to “tour the country visiting zoos and museums” a Class A towing a car may be the better option—to make it easiest for you to visit those locations (i.e., parking your vehicle).
The limiting factor with the fifthwheel could be the dually truck, if the zoos and museums do not provide oversized vehicle parking spaces (or have a large parking lot and allow you to take-up more than one parking space—easiest done during non-peak time periods)—some will be able to accommodate a dually truck, but others may not. Researching that upfront (e.g., go to the websites of the zoos and museums you would like to visit and/or look at their parking lots via google earth), to determine if your travel goals could be impacted.
As Barbara shared, you may find the motorhome easiest when traveling with pets. There are certainly positives with a fifth-wheel, but a dually truck as your daily ride may complicate your stated reason for traveling. There are ways to get around the dually truck parking complications (e.g., bring a motorcycle [installing a motorcycle lift on a relevant fifth-wheel], towing the fifthwheel with a HDT truck that carries a smart car, renting a car when needed), but each of those approaches has their own complications.
Enjoy the research and planning.
RonC said
08:33 AM Jun 18, 2017
Assuming Ed did the answering ... his comments on the dually are valid. My dually will fit within the lines of a parking space, but just barely and it will impede the adjacent vehicles door opening, which IMO is rude of me ... so I park at the far end of parking lots, I try to back in always (that's kind of a Texas thing I think) and I fold my mirrors, if it looks like others will be around me. Normally, I find myself all alone out there. The walk does me good.
Now that I'm retired, I go to the store and/or mall during the week ... weekends I stay home. I play golf during the week also. Weekends are for the working folks to do their thing. Movie theaters and restaurants (just don't go at noon) are not crowded during the day on week days. Lines are shorter at the checkouts ... it's just an adjustment in mindset ... but I like it.
-- Edited by RonC on Saturday 24th of June 2017 12:55:40 PM
Barbaraok said
12:59 PM Jun 18, 2017
RonC wrote:
Now that I'm retired, I go to the store and/or mall during the week ... weekends i stay home. I play golf during the week also. Weekends are for the working folks to do their thing. Movie theaters and restaurants (just don't go at noon) are not crowded during the day on week days. Lines are shorter at the checkouts ... it's just an adjustment in mindset ... but I like it.
We are the same - weekends we stay 'in', avoid all of the places that those working folks (who are paying taxes and helping with our retirement) go so that they can enjoy their weekend. Our "weekend" is everyday so we have a lot more time to enjoy the area that we happen to be in .
mds1 said
06:56 PM Jun 18, 2017
When I asked the same question the simplest advise was: If you plan to move a lot then get a motorhome. If you plan to be stopped for longer periods that get a tow behind. You are the best judge of what would be your anticipated travel style.
There are two of us and two smaller dogs. We plan to work or volunteer at least once a year for maybe up to 4 or 6 months max. We will be full timers. Maybe take advantages of weekly or monthly camp ground rates at times when touring. I know our style of travel could change, but you have to start somewhere.
We have owned a pop-up camper and a 30' travel trailer so know those would not work for use as fulltimers. We rented a gas Class C and for our situation that would not work well. We decide on a fifth wheel.
I've not pulled a larger trailer like a 38' foot fifth wheel. The Class C we rented was 25'. After a few hundred miles it was no big deal. It's an assumption, put I would think one could get used to about anything just like everyone else had to do - in terms of how it drives or tows.
After much reading, I'm of the opinion the Class A diesel pushers are the most expensive way to go. Our budget would also mean buying an older one. The Class C we rented with the V-10 Ford got about 8.5 miles per gallon which suggested that would not be a deciding factor in whatever we get - because they all suck fuel other than a Class B or diesel Class C (relatively speaking). We also do not want to maintain two vehicles right now.
-- Edited by mds1 on Sunday 18th of June 2017 07:02:55 PM
Neil and Connie said
10:23 AM Jun 20, 2017
You've got some good answers so far…here's my $0.02.
Get what you like…it's going to be home for you so go and look at the various types at RV shows to determine which one fits you better.
When we were looking…we quickly eliminated the Class A for a couple of reasons…first was the steering wheel in the living room problem for Connie…second was that it's much more of a long tube with stuff on the sides (even with the slides out) than a 5ver which seems to us to be more apartment like…and third is that the view out the front window will rarely look at anything but the campground road while the view out the back window of the 5ver will look much more often on woods or lake or canyon or whatever.
Diesel pushers will cost you more for an equivalent level of comfort/quality than a 5ver/truck combo in my opinion. Maintenance and tires is more expensive on a Class A.
Speed of leaving the campground isn't much of a deal…sure, you have to hitch the 5ver but then you have to stop and hook up the Toad as well and I would be surprised if there's much difference in setup/takedown time between a Class A and a 5ver for a particular individual or couple. You can't really compare my speed of leaving a campground with a couple in a class A as we each do things differently…you've still got utilities, slides and hitching (car or tow vehicle) in either case. It might be slightly easier to hitch the car than hitch the rig…but not much and for a reasonably fit person it's really not a big deal at all.
Mileage…we get better diesel mileage than most DP Class A's while towing and worse mileage than the car when doing Fun Stuff. We had a car for the first 4 years on the road but last summer when Connie needed eye surgery and couldn't drive the car conveniently died so we're just using the truck this year. I really like having her in the truck with me while traveling but we've decided that the convenience of that didn't outweigh the negatives of the big truck…there are negatives but in reality they're not that bad. We've decided to get another car this fall and will go back to driving 2 vehicles on travel days.
Parking the big truck isn't much of a problem in reality. I can get our RAM 5500HD in most parking spots and if you fold the mirrors in for neighbor convenience and back in for getting out of tight parking lot convenience then with the e exception of really low parking garages it's not much of a problem. Nonetheless…we tend to park the truck out in the lot rather than try to jam into the closest spot we can find to the door…this is much more of a non issue than one would tend to think. Overall…touring in the truck is harder than in a car…but not grossly. Our experience has been that dollars wise…there isn't a great deal of difference between truck only and truck+car. In our case after figuring out mileage, total diesel and gas spending, maintenance, insurance, etc is that the difference is probably less than 1,000 a year between the two options…obviously this depends on a lot of factors but it's not a huge amount of money. Given that…whether to have truck or truck+car is more of a "which one do we like more" decision…at least for us.
Bill and Linda said
12:59 PM Jun 20, 2017
Bill, I read through the thread and I didn't see some of the following mentioned; perhaps a minor point but a point nonetheless. As was generally stated one can almost always find a Ford, Chevy or Ram dealer to work on the truck. Finding someone to work on a diesel pusher engine or transmission in "the middle of nowhere" can be much more problematic depending. Same for a tow truck of the size required to tow some diesel pushers. ("Ask me how I know this.") This may or may not be an issue where you are planning to travel but something to put on the evaluation list; especially if you plan to travel in Canada and some areas of the US. Many, many travel in Canada with a motorhome for sure and without issues. But it can be an issue as I mentioned.
Sort of dovetailing to the above point, when vehicle service (engine, transmission, etc.) is required on a Class A, B or C motorhome one looses "the home" part while it is in the shop. If a somewhat major repair this can be more problematic time wise staying in a motel. In the case of a truck, one still gets to keep the 5th wheel "home" part and perhaps rent a vehicle for running around. Because the vehicle and "RV" systems are so tighly integrated in a motorhome they can be somewhat more difficult to repair.
The above are just points for your consideration which partially impacted our decision of a truck and 5th wheel. But it was a choice we made actively. Those that choose a motorhome made just as correct a decision for them as we did for us. Neither is right or wrong. No one needs to defend their choice.
Naturally, choose the one that is right for you.
Bill
Barbaraok said
08:24 PM Jun 20, 2017
We've full timed for 11 years in a DP and I didn't realize that we should be able to do it as easily as we have. Never had to 'move out' of my home for service and places that service DPs generally have at least power hookups for you. We spent 3 weeks at the Coach Care facility in Elkhart, IN waiting on parts. They have 6 RV slots, so we would drop coach in line in the morning, go do things during the day, take it back and park it in the afternoon. On days they weren't working on it (and weekends) just like being in an RV park.
We geocache and had friends who had an MDT/5er combo that they traded in on a MH/toad so they could geocache as easily as we do.
While all of you say, "nothing wrong with a MH" you all seem to go out of your way to list all sorts of imaginary problems that don't exist. I am always left wondering why?
Someday said
12:42 AM Jun 21, 2017
For what little it's worth, we've had a 36ft fifth wheel for the first 3 years (late 90's), with a F350dually and had a MH (admittedly gas engine) for the past 14. We don't FT yet but head off several times a year, often 4-6 weeks+ and personally we prefer the A class for its convenience. Had a total new engine put in at Pocatello Idaho in 2013 and stayed in the RV the whole duration. Just as Barb says never had to leave our rig or motel it for repairs. It's of course horses for courses and there really is no right or wrong answer.
Hubby and I love the convenience of accessing within the vehicle when on the road from a convenience as well as safety at night aspect if stopping somewhere to O/N. Remaining in the rig and staying dry when levelling etc. If we find a spot where we want to enjoy a view, we either drive into position or site ourselves to get the view from the front big window = never been a problem. I've personally never enjoyed being a passenger or driving the F350 diesel trucks for touring around or even back at homebase around town.
I can appreciate some of the comments from folks about the living space "if" you are staying in places for longer time frames for a 5er, but right now we wouldn't change the way we roll. Admittedly as I said before we are not full time, so take these thoughts with a pinch of salt, albeit hubby lived in the RV for 10 months in one location during a construction project 2009/10 and he was quite happy.
It all depends I guess on whether you intend to be a FT RVer that travels or one that stays in set places for longer lengths of time. For us our wheels were bought to keep rolling, and we have no intention of just sitting in one spot for any length of time when we do start FT. Can do that now in a SnB with a gorgeous view and amenities we are familiar with.
We never say never, so hypothetically "if" we were to get a 5er again at any point in the future we have both said it would be a lot smaller/lighter than the initial one we bought (new transmission just outside of warranty, and folks we sold same truck to, towing their smaller 5er needed another one within 18 mths also), and of course systems and set ups have changed somewhat since the late 90's early 2000's. In reality, hubby would love a DP for the power, I prefer the peace of mind on maintenance and repair costs of the Gasser.
Take your time and go check out ALL types of RVs, you might surprise yourself and end up with a C or B series = you never know. Just make sure with anything towable it's not likely to rip the guts out of the tow vehicle!
RonC said
08:35 AM Jun 21, 2017
Barbaraok wrote:
We've full timed for 11 years in a DP and I didn't realize that we should be able to do it as easily as we have. Never had to 'move out' of my home for service and places that service DPs generally have at least power hookups for you. We spent 3 weeks at the Coach Care facility in Elkhart, IN waiting on parts. They have 6 RV slots, so we would drop coach in line in the morning, go do things during the day, take it back and park it in the afternoon. On days they weren't working on it (and weekends) just like being in an RV park.
We geocache and had friends who had an MDT/5er combo that they traded in on a MH/toad so they could geocache as easily as we do.
While all of you say, "nothing wrong with a MH" you all seem to go out of your way to list all sorts of imaginary problems that don't exist. I am always left wondering why?
Don't recall saying that. If you changed the "all of you say" to "some of you say" you might be closer. There are advantages and disadvantages to Motorhomes, 5th wheels, travel trailers, class B, C and super C's. Personally (as I said before) we chose a 5th wheel because for us it was the best compromise of living space, versatility, and cost for new equipment. I like dually trucks ... many people detest them. The choices we make are based on a number of personal factors which doesn't make my choice right or wrong ... it just makes it my choice. A lot of OUR choice was based on cost comparisons. We sold our airplane and boat and bought the 5th wheel and truck with that cash. When we sold the house, 100% of that went into investments becoming a part of the "exit plan". I know many who sold their house and used that money to buy a $300-$400K motorhome. We had that option, but chose not to do that. All RV's depreciate with enthusiasm, so plopping $400K into an asset that would be worth $200K in about 5 years, just didn't give me a warm feeling. If our new 5th wheel and truck depreciate to 50% of their value in 5 years I'm out about $60K ... same depreciation problem but on a smaller scale. That I could live with. FWIW ... we have no cats or dogs so their comfort and anxieties don't play into our decision. Never had to hook up in a driving rain yet ... but anything is possible ... I'm likely to pick a different travel day if the weather looks like that. I will say that it's human nature to defend your decision, but I have really tried to be as unbiased as possible. Motorhomes are very nice, no argument from me on that. In our case they just weren't $200K nicer than our chosen rig. We weren't willing to go "used" down to the age necessary to make the prices similar. It's a value proposition that drove me to the decision we made. That value proposition exists in the mind of the purchaser ... it's the reason some people drive new chevy's and others drive used BMW's. They may not agree, but neither one is wrong.
-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 21st of June 2017 08:36:58 AM
-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 21st of June 2017 08:38:17 AM
-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 21st of June 2017 09:11:02 AM
-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 21st of June 2017 09:15:40 AM
-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 21st of June 2017 01:34:31 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Friday 23rd of June 2017 11:08:33 AM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 26th of June 2017 09:06:49 AM
Hdrider said
09:52 AM Jun 23, 2017
Pluses and minuses to both as you already know. The only 5th wheel experience I have is back in our working days when we had a 40’ toy-hauler that I pulled with a F350 and mainly boon-docked with but I guess I still have experience none the less. As far as hooking up and unhooking I can do both just a fast I’d guess. Still have power, water & sewer to deal with and with the newer jack systems on 5th wheels I guess that would be pretty equal as well (not with the 5th wheel we had however).
As far as the truck with a 5th wheel and a toad with a motorhome I would only say this, I can pick my spot that I want to unhook with the motorhome but with a 5th wheel I just might be blocking a road while hooking up and un-hooking in a lot of cases so I would give the nod to the motorhome.
When I unhook our toad we have 42’ to navigate into a campsite where when we had the 40’ 5th wheel plus the truck we certainly had more to deal with but I’m very comfortable backing trailers so never really had any issues but still something to think about if backing is not your thing.
After spending a couple windy nights I was thinking about us in a motorhome that weighs a bit over 36,000lbs compared to a 5h wheel that I guess on average might weigh it at (I’m guessing ) the 20,000lb range. I think I like the mass of the motorhome in such conditions, plus our motorhome sets a little lower when set up than the 5th wheels I see around us so less wind to get underneath to move us around.
I remember pulling the 5th wheel in strong winds and even though I was always comfortable doing so I think I feel a little more stable in the motorhome even though not exempt from feeling wind by no means.
We like comfort and a few years ago 5th wheels would certainly get the nod for having a homey feel but now days motorhomes have come a long ways with layouts that provide separation from kitchen to living areas, nice big bathrooms, heated tile floors, tv’s in locations that don’t break your neck while watching, dishwashers and on and on so the homey feel thing has evened out. And for those that don’t like the steering wheel in your living area, go to Camping World, buy a $15 wheel table, toss a nice cloth over it and that complaint is no longer a viable concern.
As far as storage I always hear how 5th wheels provide more storage but I have a hard time with that. We like to boondock some and even though we have a fair amount of solar I like having the big generator tucked out of the away and not hampering our storage where if we toss a generator up front on a 5th wheel we would use up a bunch of the storage space available and mess with weight ratio’s.
We have been fulltime 5 years now in a motorhome with no regrets and t may sound like that I’m bashing 5th wheels and but I assure you that is not the case, in fact we plan to tour the DRV and New Horizons plants while in that area in a few months because we have always said when we stop making moves about every week we will probably go to a 5th wheel so see, I talk out of both sides of my mouth LOL!!! I’m just afraid of what we will need for a tow rig to handle what we would feel is a fulltime rig but we will cross that bridge when we come to it.
Sorry this turned out so long winded.
RonC said
11:03 AM Jun 23, 2017
Hdrider ... you got a point on weight ... we've been in a couple of serious storms and while we haven't "moved" ... we definitely felt the rocking thing. Motorhomes are more "dense" than 5th wheels, that is a plus.
RonC said
11:20 AM Jun 24, 2017
On my morning walk today I ran into a fellow camper. We eventually got around to talking about "bad weather" and he said whenever high winds or heavy storms are forecast, he fills up his fresh and grey tanks to add weight "down low". Hadn't ever thought about that, but it does makes sense from a physics point of view. Adding more than a 1,000 lbs. down low would help with stability. This is a learning lifestyle.
MikkiNJay said
06:14 PM Jun 24, 2017
I hesitate to pipe in because we haven't been on the road that long and we've only had one rig, but I wanted to say a word in defense of an "older" class A. Now, I need to preface this by saying we got a fantastic deal on our DP and it is older so doesn't have the fancy paint job on the outside, but I can tell you when we went to Newmar we were the oldest rig there, but the only one there for just the tour and not any repairs. The benefit to an older rig (that has been take care of) is that is has had all the kinks worked out. How many posts do you see about new rigs needing repairs? Yeah, they might be under warranty, but what a pain! I want to be on the road, not in a repair shop!
I'm not saying it won't break down(knock wood), but we got ours with just 122k miles and a book that shows it had service every 5k of those. Brand new tires and hydraulic fluid. We went from Maine to Arizona on our first long trek and we had 0 problems. It took the mountains like a champ, even when we saw many other large vehicles overheating.
We've put 7k miles on it, and yes, we didn't love the service costs, but for what we get in return we really like our DP.
I agree with the poster that mentioned getting what you LIKE. We had no set idea of what we were looking for when we found this rig. The Amish made cabinets and desk options along with how well it ran were a big hit for us. One of the things that make me the most happy about our choice wasn't mentioned here(except about weather), but our class A is SOLID. When we walk through it we don't feel it. Now, I have read that 5th wheels can have extra stabilizers to help, but each one we tried (in our price range) just didn't have that same solid feel to me. Might not be a bid deal to anyone else, but I thought I'd mention it.
I hope you find exactly what you are looking for, and may joy find you on the road.
~Mikki
P.S. Our dogs handle riding in the class A MUCH better than a smaller vehicle also.
RonC said
08:19 PM Jun 24, 2017
Not sure if this was from Miki or Jay, but here are some things to consider regarding an older rig. Everything ages, most people think about the obvious (engines, transmissions, tires, etc), but all the rubber seals age also, as do the bearings in the axles and wheels. Tie rod ends wear, steering linkages wear, water pumps and cylinder heads can have cavitation damage, brake lines age and deteriorate, frames rust, electrical connections corrode ... the list is long. This is not to alarm, but to make sure you are fully aware of the limitations of buying an older coach are real and more attention is needed than the superficial things. I do not intend to insult you as you may have considered all this and more, but if you aren't a "gear head" most of this would go unnoticed but needs to be checked out to ensure all is well. Much more to taking care of an older coach that being willing to live with faded paint.
MikkiNJay said
08:43 PM Jun 24, 2017
Ron and Janice,
Very true! We took ours to a reputable big rig mechanic (and found he had actually seen the rig before) to have it completely gone over. Like I said, we were completely blessed to have found this rig and to get it for the price we did. I'm just putting out there that sometimes the stars align. This one belonged to a full time couple that had it built and loved it. The gentleman took extremely good care of it and documented everything. His health made them decide to move to a "park model" and they wanted a "young couple" to enjoy it the way they did. I'm sure they could have sold it for much more if they had held out.
~M
RonC said
07:35 AM Jun 25, 2017
Sounds like you got a gem! Well maintained older rigs have a grace and beauty of their own. Newer ones still need attention so that they age gracefully. Happy for you that you've found a good one!
Just a retired guy with a dog and cat, wants to tour the country visiting zoos and museums. Figure a few days to a week in each location. State parks, small clean campgrounds and open spaces probably preferred over the full entertainment KOA type places. Don't like the heat, will be North in the summer, South in the winter.
This would be my full-time home.
I like the concept of turn the key and go, stop and throw out the anchor with a Class A and a dinghy. It seems to fit best a lifestyle where you move every week or so.
The 5th provides loads of room (38 feet seems a sweet spot). Once I get a routine down, might be ok to put up and take down by myself. Living aboard full-time I might really want the extra room. Might be more efficient in the winter months?
Both are about equal on amenities. Is maintenance cost about the same? Mileage? What else do I need to consider?
Anyone experience both and live to tell about it?
I have ZERO experience with a Class A ... but everyone that I know who has one really likes it. I do have an opinion about the gas vs diesel thing on a class A ... the gassers seem to be underpowered and due to engine location (in a dog house right up front with you) they will be louder than a DP in the rolling hills or mountains due to the frequent downshifts. On flat ground there is little difference between them in noise. Diesels are just better suited to moving heavy things than gas engines are, there is a reason that long haul trucks use diesels. I will get some heat from the gassers on this, but hey ... it's just MO so not a big deal. If you decide to go gas ... take a test ride to satisfy yourself. Oh, and there is that $100K plus difference to get a diesel. But a Class A diesel pusher is the most expensive of the RV options both to buy initially and to maintain. But if buying $600 tires (there are at least 6 of them and sometimes 8) or a $600 oil change makes you queasy ... maybe a Class A isn't for you.
5th wheels are a good compromise between cost and livability. In a 5th wheel you have a legit truck to run around in (admittedly a dually ... but I like that and not everyone does) with airbags and occupant protection cages built in which are important to me. I can get it serviced at just about every little town you go to ... certainly every one that has a Ford dealership and there are a LOT of those. The hook up of a 5th wheel and the hook up a toad are similar ... once you "get" the 5th wheel thing, it's pretty easy, but the learning curve is probably a little higher than the toad hook up, but having never hooked up a toad that is just a guess.
Everybody is pretty sure their decision is the best one, so I'm not going to take that position. I will say for us and our needs and budget (that whole money thing drives a lot of decisions), getting a new 5th wheel and and new truck (both were paid for with cash) were the best decision for us versus a 10 year old diesel pusher and the necessary 4 down toad we'd need. Our rig (truck and trailer) had a combined MSRP of $173,000 but a transaction price of $130,000. To get a DP in that price range you'd need to be in the 10 year old (or more) range. It's not the bus or engine or transmission that makes the 10 year old thing less desirable ... it's the technology and the styles and colors. A LOT has changed in the last 10 years and a 10 year old rig often looks ... well, 10 years old. All of this is just my opinion ... reminder. But it's a value proposition ... it's only worth it if it's worth it to you.
My diesel pusher friends wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in a 5th wheel and for them, that makes the DP the right choice.
There are a LOT of ways to do this ... none are "wrong". It's such an individual thing that all you are going to get is OPINIONS which aren't always unbiased. But you will collect information with which you can make your decision. There is a lot of information on this forum and some very smart long term RV folks ... listen to EVERYTHING they say and then make up your own mind ... you are the person writing the check.
Best of Luck and be safe,
Ron
-- Edited by RonC on Saturday 24th of June 2017 11:06:44 AM
With a Class A your dog AND CAT never have to 'move' out of their home on moving day. We've had our DP for 12 years, and started with. 2 cats and one of the decision pieces was never having to move the cats. Another plus, you pull into a rest stop, parking lot, park in the driving rain. Never have to get out to use toilet or get a drink from the fridge. Just sit and wait out the deluge.
If you are going up and down the Rockies, Sierras, Cascades several times each yr, get a DP. If spending all year on relatively flat land, go with gasser. You might want to look at some of the diesel Class Cs to see if they would fit your needs.
-- Edited by Barbaraok on Saturday 17th of June 2017 03:41:36 PM
Given your goal to “tour the country visiting zoos and museums” a Class A towing a car may be the better option—to make it easiest for you to visit those locations (i.e., parking your vehicle).
The limiting factor with the fifthwheel could be the dually truck, if the zoos and museums do not provide oversized vehicle parking spaces (or have a large parking lot and allow you to take-up more than one parking space—easiest done during non-peak time periods)—some will be able to accommodate a dually truck, but others may not. Researching that upfront (e.g., go to the websites of the zoos and museums you would like to visit and/or look at their parking lots via google earth), to determine if your travel goals could be impacted.
As Barbara shared, you may find the motorhome easiest when traveling with pets. There are certainly positives with a fifth-wheel, but a dually truck as your daily ride may complicate your stated reason for traveling. There are ways to get around the dually truck parking complications (e.g., bring a motorcycle [installing a motorcycle lift on a relevant fifth-wheel], towing the fifthwheel with a HDT truck that carries a smart car, renting a car when needed), but each of those approaches has their own complications.
Enjoy the research and planning.
Assuming Ed did the answering ... his comments on the dually are valid. My dually will fit within the lines of a parking space, but just barely and it will impede the adjacent vehicles door opening, which IMO is rude of me ... so I park at the far end of parking lots, I try to back in always (that's kind of a Texas thing I think) and I fold my mirrors, if it looks like others will be around me. Normally, I find myself all alone out there. The walk does me good.
Now that I'm retired, I go to the store and/or mall during the week ... weekends I stay home. I play golf during the week also. Weekends are for the working folks to do their thing. Movie theaters and restaurants (just don't go at noon) are not crowded during the day on week days. Lines are shorter at the checkouts ... it's just an adjustment in mindset ... but I like it.
-- Edited by RonC on Saturday 24th of June 2017 12:55:40 PM
We are the same - weekends we stay 'in', avoid all of the places that those working folks (who are paying taxes and helping with our retirement) go so that they can enjoy their weekend. Our "weekend" is everyday so we have a lot more time to enjoy the area that we happen to be in .
When I asked the same question the simplest advise was: If you plan to move a lot then get a motorhome. If you plan to be stopped for longer periods that get a tow behind. You are the best judge of what would be your anticipated travel style.
There are two of us and two smaller dogs. We plan to work or volunteer at least once a year for maybe up to 4 or 6 months max. We will be full timers. Maybe take advantages of weekly or monthly camp ground rates at times when touring. I know our style of travel could change, but you have to start somewhere.
We have owned a pop-up camper and a 30' travel trailer so know those would not work for use as fulltimers. We rented a gas Class C and for our situation that would not work well. We decide on a fifth wheel.
I've not pulled a larger trailer like a 38' foot fifth wheel. The Class C we rented was 25'. After a few hundred miles it was no big deal. It's an assumption, put I would think one could get used to about anything just like everyone else had to do - in terms of how it drives or tows.
After much reading, I'm of the opinion the Class A diesel pushers are the most expensive way to go. Our budget would also mean buying an older one. The Class C we rented with the V-10 Ford got about 8.5 miles per gallon which suggested that would not be a deciding factor in whatever we get - because they all suck fuel other than a Class B or diesel Class C (relatively speaking). We also do not want to maintain two vehicles right now.
-- Edited by mds1 on Sunday 18th of June 2017 07:02:55 PM
You've got some good answers so far…here's my $0.02.
Get what you like…it's going to be home for you so go and look at the various types at RV shows to determine which one fits you better.
When we were looking…we quickly eliminated the Class A for a couple of reasons…first was the steering wheel in the living room problem for Connie…second was that it's much more of a long tube with stuff on the sides (even with the slides out) than a 5ver which seems to us to be more apartment like…and third is that the view out the front window will rarely look at anything but the campground road while the view out the back window of the 5ver will look much more often on woods or lake or canyon or whatever.
Diesel pushers will cost you more for an equivalent level of comfort/quality than a 5ver/truck combo in my opinion. Maintenance and tires is more expensive on a Class A.
Speed of leaving the campground isn't much of a deal…sure, you have to hitch the 5ver but then you have to stop and hook up the Toad as well and I would be surprised if there's much difference in setup/takedown time between a Class A and a 5ver for a particular individual or couple. You can't really compare my speed of leaving a campground with a couple in a class A as we each do things differently…you've still got utilities, slides and hitching (car or tow vehicle) in either case. It might be slightly easier to hitch the car than hitch the rig…but not much and for a reasonably fit person it's really not a big deal at all.
Mileage…we get better diesel mileage than most DP Class A's while towing and worse mileage than the car when doing Fun Stuff. We had a car for the first 4 years on the road but last summer when Connie needed eye surgery and couldn't drive the car conveniently died so we're just using the truck this year. I really like having her in the truck with me while traveling but we've decided that the convenience of that didn't outweigh the negatives of the big truck…there are negatives but in reality they're not that bad. We've decided to get another car this fall and will go back to driving 2 vehicles on travel days.
Parking the big truck isn't much of a problem in reality. I can get our RAM 5500HD in most parking spots and if you fold the mirrors in for neighbor convenience and back in for getting out of tight parking lot convenience then with the e exception of really low parking garages it's not much of a problem. Nonetheless…we tend to park the truck out in the lot rather than try to jam into the closest spot we can find to the door…this is much more of a non issue than one would tend to think. Overall…touring in the truck is harder than in a car…but not grossly. Our experience has been that dollars wise…there isn't a great deal of difference between truck only and truck+car. In our case after figuring out mileage, total diesel and gas spending, maintenance, insurance, etc is that the difference is probably less than 1,000 a year between the two options…obviously this depends on a lot of factors but it's not a huge amount of money. Given that…whether to have truck or truck+car is more of a "which one do we like more" decision…at least for us.
Bill, I read through the thread and I didn't see some of the following mentioned; perhaps a minor point but a point nonetheless. As was generally stated one can almost always find a Ford, Chevy or Ram dealer to work on the truck. Finding someone to work on a diesel pusher engine or transmission in "the middle of nowhere" can be much more problematic depending. Same for a tow truck of the size required to tow some diesel pushers. ("Ask me how I know this.") This may or may not be an issue where you are planning to travel but something to put on the evaluation list; especially if you plan to travel in Canada and some areas of the US. Many, many travel in Canada with a motorhome for sure and without issues. But it can be an issue as I mentioned.
Sort of dovetailing to the above point, when vehicle service (engine, transmission, etc.) is required on a Class A, B or C motorhome one looses "the home" part while it is in the shop. If a somewhat major repair this can be more problematic time wise staying in a motel. In the case of a truck, one still gets to keep the 5th wheel "home" part and perhaps rent a vehicle for running around. Because the vehicle and "RV" systems are so tighly integrated in a motorhome they can be somewhat more difficult to repair.
The above are just points for your consideration which partially impacted our decision of a truck and 5th wheel. But it was a choice we made actively. Those that choose a motorhome made just as correct a decision for them as we did for us. Neither is right or wrong. No one needs to defend their choice.
Naturally, choose the one that is right for you.
Bill
We geocache and had friends who had an MDT/5er combo that they traded in on a MH/toad so they could geocache as easily as we do.
While all of you say, "nothing wrong with a MH" you all seem to go out of your way to list all sorts of imaginary problems that don't exist. I am always left wondering why?
Hubby and I love the convenience of accessing within the vehicle when on the road from a convenience as well as safety at night aspect if stopping somewhere to O/N. Remaining in the rig and staying dry when levelling etc. If we find a spot where we want to enjoy a view, we either drive into position or site ourselves to get the view from the front big window = never been a problem. I've personally never enjoyed being a passenger or driving the F350 diesel trucks for touring around or even back at homebase around town.
I can appreciate some of the comments from folks about the living space "if" you are staying in places for longer time frames for a 5er, but right now we wouldn't change the way we roll. Admittedly as I said before we are not full time, so take these thoughts with a pinch of salt, albeit hubby lived in the RV for 10 months in one location during a construction project 2009/10 and he was quite happy.
It all depends I guess on whether you intend to be a FT RVer that travels or one that stays in set places for longer lengths of time. For us our wheels were bought to keep rolling, and we have no intention of just sitting in one spot for any length of time when we do start FT. Can do that now in a SnB with a gorgeous view and amenities we are familiar with.
We never say never, so hypothetically "if" we were to get a 5er again at any point in the future we have both said it would be a lot smaller/lighter than the initial one we bought (new transmission just outside of warranty, and folks we sold same truck to, towing their smaller 5er needed another one within 18 mths also), and of course systems and set ups have changed somewhat since the late 90's early 2000's. In reality, hubby would love a DP for the power, I prefer the peace of mind on maintenance and repair costs of the Gasser.
Take your time and go check out ALL types of RVs, you might surprise yourself and end up with a C or B series = you never know. Just make sure with anything towable it's not likely to rip the guts out of the tow vehicle!
Don't recall saying that. If you changed the "all of you say" to "some of you say" you might be closer. There are advantages and disadvantages to Motorhomes, 5th wheels, travel trailers, class B, C and super C's. Personally (as I said before) we chose a 5th wheel because for us it was the best compromise of living space, versatility, and cost for new equipment. I like dually trucks ... many people detest them. The choices we make are based on a number of personal factors which doesn't make my choice right or wrong ... it just makes it my choice. A lot of OUR choice was based on cost comparisons. We sold our airplane and boat and bought the 5th wheel and truck with that cash. When we sold the house, 100% of that went into investments becoming a part of the "exit plan". I know many who sold their house and used that money to buy a $300-$400K motorhome. We had that option, but chose not to do that. All RV's depreciate with enthusiasm, so plopping $400K into an asset that would be worth $200K in about 5 years, just didn't give me a warm feeling. If our new 5th wheel and truck depreciate to 50% of their value in 5 years I'm out about $60K ... same depreciation problem but on a smaller scale. That I could live with. FWIW ... we have no cats or dogs so their comfort and anxieties don't play into our decision. Never had to hook up in a driving rain yet ... but anything is possible ... I'm likely to pick a different travel day if the weather looks like that. I will say that it's human nature to defend your decision, but I have really tried to be as unbiased as possible. Motorhomes are very nice, no argument from me on that. In our case they just weren't $200K nicer than our chosen rig. We weren't willing to go "used" down to the age necessary to make the prices similar. It's a value proposition that drove me to the decision we made. That value proposition exists in the mind of the purchaser ... it's the reason some people drive new chevy's and others drive used BMW's. They may not agree, but neither one is wrong.
-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 21st of June 2017 08:36:58 AM
-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 21st of June 2017 08:38:17 AM
-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 21st of June 2017 09:11:02 AM
-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 21st of June 2017 09:15:40 AM
-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 21st of June 2017 01:34:31 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Friday 23rd of June 2017 11:08:33 AM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 26th of June 2017 09:06:49 AM
As far as the truck with a 5th wheel and a toad with a motorhome I would only say this, I can pick my spot that I want to unhook with the motorhome but with a 5th wheel I just might be blocking a road while hooking up and un-hooking in a lot of cases so I would give the nod to the motorhome.
When I unhook our toad we have 42’ to navigate into a campsite where when we had the 40’ 5th wheel plus the truck we certainly had more to deal with but I’m very comfortable backing trailers so never really had any issues but still something to think about if backing is not your thing.
After spending a couple windy nights I was thinking about us in a motorhome that weighs a bit over 36,000lbs compared to a 5h wheel that I guess on average might weigh it at (I’m guessing ) the 20,000lb range. I think I like the mass of the motorhome in such conditions, plus our motorhome sets a little lower when set up than the 5th wheels I see around us so less wind to get underneath to move us around.
I remember pulling the 5th wheel in strong winds and even though I was always comfortable doing so I think I feel a little more stable in the motorhome even though not exempt from feeling wind by no means.
We like comfort and a few years ago 5th wheels would certainly get the nod for having a homey feel but now days motorhomes have come a long ways with layouts that provide separation from kitchen to living areas, nice big bathrooms, heated tile floors, tv’s in locations that don’t break your neck while watching, dishwashers and on and on so the homey feel thing has evened out. And for those that don’t like the steering wheel in your living area, go to Camping World, buy a $15 wheel table, toss a nice cloth over it and that complaint is no longer a viable concern.
As far as storage I always hear how 5th wheels provide more storage but I have a hard time with that. We like to boondock some and even though we have a fair amount of solar I like having the big generator tucked out of the away and not hampering our storage where if we toss a generator up front on a 5th wheel we would use up a bunch of the storage space available and mess with weight ratio’s.
We have been fulltime 5 years now in a motorhome with no regrets and t may sound like that I’m bashing 5th wheels and but I assure you that is not the case, in fact we plan to tour the DRV and New Horizons plants while in that area in a few months because we have always said when we stop making moves about every week we will probably go to a 5th wheel so see, I talk out of both sides of my mouth LOL!!! I’m just afraid of what we will need for a tow rig to handle what we would feel is a fulltime rig but we will cross that bridge when we come to it.
Sorry this turned out so long winded.
I'm not saying it won't break down(knock wood), but we got ours with just 122k miles and a book that shows it had service every 5k of those. Brand new tires and hydraulic fluid. We went from Maine to Arizona on our first long trek and we had 0 problems. It took the mountains like a champ, even when we saw many other large vehicles overheating.
We've put 7k miles on it, and yes, we didn't love the service costs, but for what we get in return we really like our DP.
I agree with the poster that mentioned getting what you LIKE. We had no set idea of what we were looking for when we found this rig. The Amish made cabinets and desk options along with how well it ran were a big hit for us. One of the things that make me the most happy about our choice wasn't mentioned here(except about weather), but our class A is SOLID. When we walk through it we don't feel it. Now, I have read that 5th wheels can have extra stabilizers to help, but each one we tried (in our price range) just didn't have that same solid feel to me. Might not be a bid deal to anyone else, but I thought I'd mention it.
I hope you find exactly what you are looking for, and may joy find you on the road.
~Mikki
P.S. Our dogs handle riding in the class A MUCH better than a smaller vehicle also.
Very true! We took ours to a reputable big rig mechanic (and found he had actually seen the rig before) to have it completely gone over. Like I said, we were completely blessed to have found this rig and to get it for the price we did. I'm just putting out there that sometimes the stars align. This one belonged to a full time couple that had it built and loved it. The gentleman took extremely good care of it and documented everything. His health made them decide to move to a "park model" and they wanted a "young couple" to enjoy it the way they did. I'm sure they could have sold it for much more if they had held out.
~M