We have the Lippert auto system and it has stopped working as we were bringing the legs up to leave our campsite. The back and middle legs went up but the front are still down. The trailer is on the truck so we can't move our truck and we are blocking the campsite road. ARG!
The relay to the pump clicks, but the pump won't come on. We are still hooked up to power and nothing helps.
Ideas?
RonC said
03:50 PM Jun 8, 2017
The relay click you are hearing should be a contactor sending power to the pump motor. That's a good sign in that all the electrical controls are working correctly up to the contactor. If the pump isn't turning (you would hear the noise) then the motor is most likely shot. Could be a loose connection, blown fuse, tripped overload or something else, but failed electric motors aren't unusual. Wait a while and see if a thermal overload might have tripped and will reset itself. Failing that, and assuming you know how to use a multimeter ... ensure the ground wire (of the pump motor) is properly connected (it is usually a black heavy wire) and there is continuity with ground, then with the multimeter black lead on ground, put the red lead on the positive side of the pump motor (usually a red colored heavy wire). Have someone activate the "retract" function to try to raise the front landing gear. If the click of the contractor causes the multimeter to go from "0" volts on the motor positive terminal, to go to "12V DC", but the motor does not turn the electrical connection to the pump motor is probably sound ... and the motor has failed internally. The pump can be run manually using a drill motor (most people have a cordless drill). Not sure of the size of the socket pocket on the motor, but running the cordless drill one way will turn the pump in a direction that will extend the gear and reversing the drill motor will cause the pump to run the other way and retract the gear. This should allow you to get everything sucked up and able to travel ... go directly to a shop for repairs. If none of this makes sense, then call a mobile RV Technician.
Sorry to hear of your troubles ... these things ALWAYS happen at inopportune times. Best of luck to you on this.
Ron
-- Edited by RonC on Thursday 8th of June 2017 03:56:02 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Thursday 8th of June 2017 05:52:53 PM
NWescapee said
11:44 PM Jun 8, 2017
So sorry, HATE anything Lippert, don't get me started. We have to raise, lower landing gear multiple times to get it to stay in place before heading down the road.
Check the hoses, if any are squishy they need to be replaced, with all slides in check hydraulic fluid level, then hope you finda good repair shop.
We feel your pain, 3 trips to the shop for Lippert hydraulic issues in Mar 2016 left us fuming and frustrated.
RonC said
12:18 PM Jun 9, 2017
NWescapee ... are you still having trouble with your Lippert Level Up system? I was under the impression that your "drifting" jacks problem had been resolved.
Bill and Linda said
02:13 PM Jun 9, 2017
DebbieM wrote:
Hello All,
We have the Lippert auto system and it has stopped working as we were bringing the legs up to leave our campsite. The back and middle legs went up but the front are still down. The trailer is on the truck so we can't move our truck and we are blocking the campsite road. ARG!
The relay to the pump clicks, but the pump won't come on. We are still hooked up to power and nothing helps.
Ideas?
Let's assume the pump motor ran to raise the rear and center jacks. That's what you state in the first two sentences. In the manual there are instructions, as Ron indicated, to run the pump with a drill motor with a chuck into the motor drive shaft. (However, it might take a right angle drive depending on clearance. Yes, I carry one of those - really handy when needed.) But the "click" you maybe hearing is the hydraulic control relay for the front jacks, not the motor control relay. So . . . assuming all of the above is the case you would need to use a drill motor to run the pump and also at the same time have someone press the "up" button for the jacks. That might well do it.
By this time you probably have the jacks up and this is solved. But though I would give it a shot a suggesting a course of action.
We don't have the Lippert leveling system (have the Quadra "Big Foot") but do have the Lippert pump motor / hydraulic system for the slides and they work the same way as far as pump operation is concerned.
(Edited to correct comment about limit switch. Thanks, Ron.)
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Saturday 10th of June 2017 12:36:23 PM
NWescapee said
03:41 PM Jun 9, 2017
Yep, still problematic. The one thing that seems to work most of the time, knock on wood, is to raise and lower the landing gear multiple times after all the slides are in and the side to side levelers are up. We've had a couple of times where they started drifting again, so we raise / lower / raise / lower, etc, and then they seem to stay.
I say knock on wood because we have several driving days ahead of us in the next 4 weeks.
Bruce and Robin said
07:43 PM Jun 9, 2017
I'm sorry to hear you are having problems. I know you probably have your issue fixed. I would probably have just manually jogged the leveling system jacks down just for an instant, to see if the pump would work with a switch different then the front landing gear switch button. If the pump comes on to lower the levelers then obviously it is not the pump. I might also unhitched and tried raising the landing gear just a tad. I also think there is a oil cutoff switch too.
Bill you bring up some good points! I didn't know they had limit switches on these cylinders. I want to go out and try mine now. I think in manual the front landing gear just runs the pump until you take your finger off the button.
I was just wondering, did you have to raise the front landing before hitching the trailer and then after hitching up the front landing gear would not go up the rest of the way?
-- Edited by Bruce and Robin on Friday 9th of June 2017 07:46:19 PM
Bill and Linda said
12:51 PM Jun 10, 2017
Bruce and Robin wrote:
Bill you bring up some good points! I didn't know they had limit switches on these cylinders. I want to go out and try mine now. I think in manual the front landing gear just runs the pump until you take your finger off the button.
-- Edited by Bruce and Robin on Friday 9th of June 2017 07:46:19 PM
Bruce, my bad. Lippert does not use a simplistic "limit" switch. Much more complicated system and Ron corrected me on that point. Doing trouble shooting at a distance can lead to errors but I was giving it a shot. It's probably working by now anyway.
The Quadra system has 4 independent jacks. Independent to the extent there are four individual hydraulic pumps at the each jack and two simple relay controls also at the jack. One relay is for up and the other reverses the 12 volt polarity to the pump for down. So if one has a failure of the control system a clip lead with #14 wire will make the jack run up or down as required. They have a up limit switch and if that goes bad it will keep the jacks from running. But a clip lead will also bypass that in a pinch as well. Its not they can't fail, its just there are ways around a failure in some cases and I was hoping the same for the OP as a long shot.
Bruce and Robin said
01:15 PM Jun 10, 2017
Thanks Bill! Sounds like you have a system you can work around if you have any issues. I am not a fan of Lippert in my short time of troubleshooting and looking at their system design. Actually they could have a good system if they used better quality o-rings and seals. I don't understand cost cutting measures in that area of a hydraulic system. The reservoir is in a bad place for me. It is hard to check/add oil if needed, let alone try and manually operate the hydraulic pump. I asked Lippert about a replacement cylinder for a "door side" slide. Gave them all the S/N, VIN, etc. they emailed me back and asked me what color I wanted. Really? You can't see the cylinder for the slideout. It is between the floor and the insulation and underbelly cover. How about black like all the other ones! Anyway, I have talked to 3 different tech support guys there and have received almost 3 different variations of answers.
I have a question. If I have a solenoid valve that operates the front landing gear simultaneously. They do not operate independently. The supply fluid (2 hoses) go to the cylinder (one each ). The return fluid hose ( one each ) return to the reservoir. The slideout has a separate solenoid, separate hoses, completely separate other than they drain back to one reservoir. How could a leak on a slideout cylinder cause my front landing gear to drop or drift down? I do not get it. Now what am I missing?
Bill and Linda said
03:31 PM Jun 10, 2017
Bruce and Robin wrote:
I have a question. If I have a solenoid valve that operates the front landing gear simultaneously. They do not operate independently. The supply fluid (2 hoses) go to the cylinder (one each ). The return fluid hose ( one each ) return to the reservoir. The slideout has a separate solenoid, separate hoses, completely separate other than they drain back to one reservoir. How could a leak on a slideout cylinder cause my front landing gear to drop or drift down? I do not get it. Now what am I missing?
Bruce, honestly, I haven't a clue. Way to complicated for me to figure out without a diagram. Everyone has personal preferences but I don't "prefer" the Lippert "Level Up" system. It simply doesn't have the functionality I prefer. Meaning, for one thing, one can't run the jacks independently. That alone is not a good system IMO. I know it has a purpose, but I still want totally independent operation and I will take responsibility for protecting my frame. A choice.
RonC said
04:04 PM Jun 10, 2017
RonC wrote:
The relay click you are hearing should be a contactor sending power to the pump motor. That's a good sign in that all the electrical controls are working correctly up to the contactor. If the pump isn't turning (you would hear the noise) then the motor is most likely shot. Could be a loose connection, blown fuse, tripped overload or something else, but failed electric motors aren't unusual. Wait a while and see if a thermal overload might have tripped and will reset itself. Failing that, and assuming you know how to use a multimeter ... ensure the ground wire (of the pump motor) is properly connected (it is usually a black heavy wire) and there is continuity with ground, then with the multimeter black lead on ground, put the red lead on the positive side of the pump motor (usually a red colored heavy wire). Have someone activate the "retract" function to try to raise the front landing gear. If the click of the contractor causes the multimeter to go from "0" volts on the motor positive terminal, to go to "12V DC", but the motor does not turn the electrical connection to the pump motor is probably sound ... and the motor has failed internally. The pump can be run manually using a drill motor (most people have a cordless drill). Not sure of the size of the socket pocket on the motor, but running the cordless drill one way will turn the pump in a direction that will extend the gear and reversing the drill motor will cause the pump to run the other way and retract the gear. This should allow you to get everything sucked up and able to travel ... go directly to a shop for repairs. If none of this makes sense, then call a mobile RV Technician.
Sorry to hear of your troubles ... these things ALWAYS happen at inopportune times. Best of luck to you on this.
Ron
-- Edited by RonC on Thursday 8th of June 2017 03:56:02 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Thursday 8th of June 2017 05:52:53 PM
This procedure is described in the owners manual on page 10 of 12. Just google Lippert level up owners manual.
RonC said
08:48 PM Jun 10, 2017
Bruce,
I'm no Lippert Expert, so let's get that out of the way. The hydraulic cylinders don't have a "return" line. The two lines serve as either the pressure line or the return line depending on directional function. The cylinders are "powered" both directions (down and up), so each line serves both purposes depending on the direction of travel.
To respond to your question re: slide cylinder leaking causing main landing gear to drift ... there should be no relationship between the two. Something is leaking internally to allow that to happen. The Lippert system is complex in as much as it uses many controls, valves and seals to allow ONE pump and ONE motor to run all those systems (in my system it runs the main landing gear, two pairs of rear leveling jacks and 4 slides). I have the same system and just pray that the hydraulic monsters don't visit me. Honestly, if they did, I would try to get it fixed (within reason), then I would have it removed and replaced by a better system.
Adding a bit more. The Lippert Level Up system is a great system WHEN IT WORKS. When "problelms" occur it is difficult to repair due to it's complexity. I will tell you that the enemy of hydraulic systems is dirt and moisture. Dirt is abrasive an WILL cause internal wear and resulting leaking (often manifests as "drifting"). Same is true of moisture. It allows corrosion to occur internally which causes leaks internally as well. Hydraulic systems need seals riding on near perfect surfaces that allows a good seal. Corrosion and wear both interfere with that needed sealing. It is for that reason that fixing it is so hard, the defect could be anywhere and is difficult to isolate. Replacing all components usually would fix it, but is also very expensive. Just fully flushing out a contaminated system is very expensive, if done correctly.
More adding ... if there is "evidence" of a leak (damp seals, dripping hydraulic fluid) then the system is contaminated. If oil can get out, dirt can get in.
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 12th of June 2017 04:38:41 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 12th of June 2017 05:45:22 PM
DebbieM said
04:37 PM Jun 12, 2017
It's been a busy few days. This may sound ridiculously simple, but the water in our golf cart batteries was low in a few of them. Our bad for not checking the batteries as often lately. Steve added water, put in a new 12v 50amp circuit breaker and it seems to work. We will know for sure tomorrow when we are moving. He did get the legs to move slightly but that is all he tried as he really want's to wait until tomorrow. We usually carry spare breakers, but were out and they didn't have them in stock. Just picked them up.
Thank you for all the help and I'll let you know more tomorrow!
RonC said
04:43 PM Jun 12, 2017
DebbieM wrote:
It's been a busy few days. This may sound ridiculously simple, but the water in our golf cart batteries was low in a few of them. Our bad for not checking the batteries as often lately. Steve added water, put in a new 12v 50amp circuit breaker and it seems to work. We will know for sure tomorrow when we are moving. He did get the legs to move slightly but that is all he tried as he really want's to wait until tomorrow. We usually carry spare breakers, but were out and they didn't have them in stock. Just picked them up.
Thank you for all the help and I'll let you know more tomorrow!
The new breaker must have been the fix. In your OP you said you were "still plugged in" so battery maintenance shouldn't have come into play. Glad it worked out!
Hello All,
We have the Lippert auto system and it has stopped working as we were bringing the legs up to leave our campsite. The back and middle legs went up but the front are still down. The trailer is on the truck so we can't move our truck and we are blocking the campsite road. ARG!
The relay to the pump clicks, but the pump won't come on. We are still hooked up to power and nothing helps.
Ideas?
The relay click you are hearing should be a contactor sending power to the pump motor. That's a good sign in that all the electrical controls are working correctly up to the contactor. If the pump isn't turning (you would hear the noise) then the motor is most likely shot. Could be a loose connection, blown fuse, tripped overload or something else, but failed electric motors aren't unusual. Wait a while and see if a thermal overload might have tripped and will reset itself. Failing that, and assuming you know how to use a multimeter ... ensure the ground wire (of the pump motor) is properly connected (it is usually a black heavy wire) and there is continuity with ground, then with the multimeter black lead on ground, put the red lead on the positive side of the pump motor (usually a red colored heavy wire). Have someone activate the "retract" function to try to raise the front landing gear. If the click of the contractor causes the multimeter to go from "0" volts on the motor positive terminal, to go to "12V DC", but the motor does not turn the electrical connection to the pump motor is probably sound ... and the motor has failed internally. The pump can be run manually using a drill motor (most people have a cordless drill). Not sure of the size of the socket pocket on the motor, but running the cordless drill one way will turn the pump in a direction that will extend the gear and reversing the drill motor will cause the pump to run the other way and retract the gear. This should allow you to get everything sucked up and able to travel ... go directly to a shop for repairs. If none of this makes sense, then call a mobile RV Technician.
Sorry to hear of your troubles ... these things ALWAYS happen at inopportune times. Best of luck to you on this.
Ron
-- Edited by RonC on Thursday 8th of June 2017 03:56:02 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Thursday 8th of June 2017 05:52:53 PM
Check the hoses, if any are squishy they need to be replaced, with all slides in check hydraulic fluid level, then hope you finda good repair shop.
We feel your pain, 3 trips to the shop for Lippert hydraulic issues in Mar 2016 left us fuming and frustrated.
Let's assume the pump motor ran to raise the rear and center jacks. That's what you state in the first two sentences. In the manual there are instructions, as Ron indicated, to run the pump with a drill motor with a chuck into the motor drive shaft. (However, it might take a right angle drive depending on clearance. Yes, I carry one of those - really handy when needed.) But the "click" you maybe hearing is the hydraulic control relay for the front jacks, not the motor control relay. So . . . assuming all of the above is the case you would need to use a drill motor to run the pump and also at the same time have someone press the "up" button for the jacks. That might well do it.
By this time you probably have the jacks up and this is solved. But though I would give it a shot a suggesting a course of action.
We don't have the Lippert leveling system (have the Quadra "Big Foot") but do have the Lippert pump motor / hydraulic system for the slides and they work the same way as far as pump operation is concerned.
(Edited to correct comment about limit switch. Thanks, Ron.)
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Saturday 10th of June 2017 12:36:23 PM
Yep, still problematic. The one thing that seems to work most of the time, knock on wood, is to raise and lower the landing gear multiple times after all the slides are in and the side to side levelers are up. We've had a couple of times where they started drifting again, so we raise / lower / raise / lower, etc, and then they seem to stay.
I say knock on wood because we have several driving days ahead of us in the next 4 weeks.
I'm sorry to hear you are having problems. I know you probably have your issue fixed. I would probably have just manually jogged the leveling system jacks down just for an instant, to see if the pump would work with a switch different then the front landing gear switch button. If the pump comes on to lower the levelers then obviously it is not the pump. I might also unhitched and tried raising the landing gear just a tad. I also think there is a oil cutoff switch too.
Bill you bring up some good points! I didn't know they had limit switches on these cylinders. I want to go out and try mine now. I think in manual the front landing gear just runs the pump until you take your finger off the button.
I was just wondering, did you have to raise the front landing before hitching the trailer and then after hitching up the front landing gear would not go up the rest of the way?
-- Edited by Bruce and Robin on Friday 9th of June 2017 07:46:19 PM
Bruce, my bad. Lippert does not use a simplistic "limit" switch. Much more complicated system and Ron corrected me on that point. Doing trouble shooting at a distance can lead to errors but I was giving it a shot. It's probably working by now anyway.
The Quadra system has 4 independent jacks. Independent to the extent there are four individual hydraulic pumps at the each jack and two simple relay controls also at the jack. One relay is for up and the other reverses the 12 volt polarity to the pump for down. So if one has a failure of the control system a clip lead with #14 wire will make the jack run up or down as required. They have a up limit switch and if that goes bad it will keep the jacks from running. But a clip lead will also bypass that in a pinch as well. Its not they can't fail, its just there are ways around a failure in some cases and I was hoping the same for the OP as a long shot.
Thanks Bill! Sounds like you have a system you can work around if you have any issues. I am not a fan of Lippert in my short time of troubleshooting and looking at their system design. Actually they could have a good system if they used better quality o-rings and seals. I don't understand cost cutting measures in that area of a hydraulic system. The reservoir is in a bad place for me. It is hard to check/add oil if needed, let alone try and manually operate the hydraulic pump. I asked Lippert about a replacement cylinder for a "door side" slide. Gave them all the S/N, VIN, etc. they emailed me back and asked me what color I wanted. Really? You can't see the cylinder for the slideout. It is between the floor and the insulation and underbelly cover. How about black like all the other ones! Anyway, I have talked to 3 different tech support guys there and have received almost 3 different variations of answers.
I have a question. If I have a solenoid valve that operates the front landing gear simultaneously. They do not operate independently. The supply fluid (2 hoses) go to the cylinder (one each ). The return fluid hose ( one each ) return to the reservoir. The slideout has a separate solenoid, separate hoses, completely separate other than they drain back to one reservoir. How could a leak on a slideout cylinder cause my front landing gear to drop or drift down? I do not get it. Now what am I missing?
Bruce, honestly, I haven't a clue. Way to complicated for me to figure out without a diagram. Everyone has personal preferences but I don't "prefer" the Lippert "Level Up" system. It simply doesn't have the functionality I prefer. Meaning, for one thing, one can't run the jacks independently. That alone is not a good system IMO. I know it has a purpose, but I still want totally independent operation and I will take responsibility for protecting my frame. A choice.
This procedure is described in the owners manual on page 10 of 12. Just google Lippert level up owners manual.
Bruce,
I'm no Lippert Expert, so let's get that out of the way. The hydraulic cylinders don't have a "return" line. The two lines serve as either the pressure line or the return line depending on directional function. The cylinders are "powered" both directions (down and up), so each line serves both purposes depending on the direction of travel.
To respond to your question re: slide cylinder leaking causing main landing gear to drift ... there should be no relationship between the two. Something is leaking internally to allow that to happen. The Lippert system is complex in as much as it uses many controls, valves and seals to allow ONE pump and ONE motor to run all those systems (in my system it runs the main landing gear, two pairs of rear leveling jacks and 4 slides). I have the same system and just pray that the hydraulic monsters don't visit me. Honestly, if they did, I would try to get it fixed (within reason), then I would have it removed and replaced by a better system.
Adding a bit more. The Lippert Level Up system is a great system WHEN IT WORKS. When "problelms" occur it is difficult to repair due to it's complexity. I will tell you that the enemy of hydraulic systems is dirt and moisture. Dirt is abrasive an WILL cause internal wear and resulting leaking (often manifests as "drifting"). Same is true of moisture. It allows corrosion to occur internally which causes leaks internally as well. Hydraulic systems need seals riding on near perfect surfaces that allows a good seal. Corrosion and wear both interfere with that needed sealing. It is for that reason that fixing it is so hard, the defect could be anywhere and is difficult to isolate. Replacing all components usually would fix it, but is also very expensive. Just fully flushing out a contaminated system is very expensive, if done correctly.
More adding ... if there is "evidence" of a leak (damp seals, dripping hydraulic fluid) then the system is contaminated. If oil can get out, dirt can get in.
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 12th of June 2017 04:38:41 PM
-- Edited by RonC on Monday 12th of June 2017 05:45:22 PM
It's been a busy few days. This may sound ridiculously simple, but the water in our golf cart batteries was low in a few of them. Our bad for not checking the batteries as often lately. Steve added water, put in a new 12v 50amp circuit breaker and it seems to work. We will know for sure tomorrow when we are moving. He did get the legs to move slightly but that is all he tried as he really want's to wait until tomorrow. We usually carry spare breakers, but were out and they didn't have them in stock. Just picked them up.
Thank you for all the help and I'll let you know more tomorrow!
The new breaker must have been the fix. In your OP you said you were "still plugged in" so battery maintenance shouldn't have come into play. Glad it worked out!