Can anyone tell me what make and model truck, 2500, diesel, with crew cab has the greatest towing capacity? Did I word that correctly? Not sure.

All of the truck builders have towing guides that give you all that stuff…you need to research the numbers for the truck you're considering. A couple of thoughts to keep in mind.

Don't buy the truck first until you've at least picked out the trailer.

Don't believe the builder of the trailer as to what the loaded for gross weight and pin weight are…try to find out from owners of similar rigs. Once you know the total trailer and pin weights…you really need to run the numbers to make sure you're not overloading anything. With almost all truck brands…with a fifth wheel the first limit you'll hit is usually the rear axle capacity.

Don't believe any trailer salesman or truck salesman when they tell you what the truck will tow or how much truck you need to tow their rig…they lie and will tell you anything. I've heard of an RV salesman who told a potential buyer he could tow a 34 foot fifth wheel at 16,000 GVW with an F150…which is almost surely incorrect. They'll tell you anything to get you to sign on the dotted line.

Bill Napier (and I and the internet) have spreadsheets and guides for doing the calculations for pin weight, axle weights, and figuring out how much truck you need.

ChefMom wrote:

---

Can anyone tell me what make and model truck, 2500, diesel, with crew cab has the greatest towing capacity? Did I word that correctly? Not sure.

---

 If you are planning on towing a 5th wheel trailer how much the truck's towing specification is, is irrelevant. Especially on a 2500 - i.e. single rear wheel truck. The truck will be overloaded on the rear axle long before maxing out the towing capacity.  If this makes no sense, welcome the the half-truth world of pickup truck specifications.  (Commercial trucks are totally different.)

Also, the model year of the truck has a great deal to do with specifications as to axle weight capacities and for what they are worth towing and combined weight capacities.

Forget what any RV salesman says as a pretty good rule as pertains to trucks.  They're job is to sell trailers.

As Neil says, find the trailer.  Get the weight numbers for the trailer and then select a truck.  Most of the time, except for smaller 5th wheels you will need a 3500HD to get the rear axle capacity needed.

Bill

Bill and Linda wrote:

---

ChefMom wrote:

---

Can anyone tell me what make and model truck, 2500, diesel, with crew cab has the greatest towing capacity? Did I word that correctly? Not sure.

---

 If you are planning on towing a 5th wheel trailer how much the truck's towing specification is, is irrelevant. Especially on a 2500 - i.e. single rear wheel truck. The truck will be overloaded on the rear axle long before maxing out the towing capacity.  If this makes no sense, welcome the the half-truth world of pickup truck specifications.  (Commercial trucks are totally different.)

Also, the model year of the truck has a great deal to do with specifications as to axle weight capacities and for what they are worth towing and combined weight capacities.

Forget what any RV salesman says as a pretty good rule as pertains to trucks.  They're job is to sell trailers.

As Neil says, find the trailer.  Get the weight numbers for the trailer and then select a truck.  Most of the time, except for smaller 5th wheels you will need a 3500HD to get the rear axle capacity needed.

Bill

---

Bill's advice is spot-on. Use 23% of the fifth wheel's GVWR off the sticker as an estimated loaded pin weight. Subtract the curb weight of the truck's rear axle from the GVWRR (gross weight rating for the rear axle) to estimate the truck's remaining payload. If that number is less than the estimated pin weight for the trailer you're considering, it's not enough truck.

Rob

Or.... you could change your domicile state. You could have your reasons for staying in Taxachusetts so I won't belabor the point. Just sayin' options exist for you to explore.

FWIW.

We moved our domicile back to Texas (being retired Army, Texas had been my home of record off and on several times). The Escapee's mail service provides our legal address and treats us very well. The cost of registering and renewing the vehicles in Texas is about 20% what it was in South Carolina. The only thing we had to do differently was I had to get a Class A Exempt (non-commercial) driver's license when we moved up to a 1-ton DRW truck (over 10K gross for the truck and over 26K gross for the combination). The cost was $11 for that (for the written and driving tests).

Rob

ChefMom wrote:

---

Could anyone who is well versed in the proper way for us to establish residency in a state that would allow us to move forward with our plan to purchase a 3500 pu and 5th wheel without the penalties Mass has, please pm me with what they believe are the best states for this and the procedure required. Thank you. Karen

---

 Pick your residency state first and then find a mailing service there and they'll walk you through it. We used Americas Mailbox in SD for 5 years but switched last fall over to St. Brendan's Isle in Green Cove Springs FL…better mail service and they have packages of directions and forms for doing all of the residency, voting, and domicile stuff.

As to which state…most full time RVers…unless they have reason to stay in their original state…use FL, TX, or SD with MT coming in next. All have unique requirements and rules and as I said we used SD and then FL and FL was easier. The only real thing wrong with TX is that you have to take the drivers test for the RV license in the vehicle…this wasn't possible when we originally did it as we didn't have the RV yet. FL was actually pretty easy to switch over…

Will contact her. Thanks.

ChefMom wrote:

---

Thanks for all the advice and doing it step by step helps. Will check insurance rates as well. I know it won't be good.

---

Our insurance didn't go up much from the 3/4 ton to the 1-ton DRW in Texas. They're not registered as commercial vehicles there (every cowboy in the state owns one).

Rob

ChefMom wrote:

---

Thanks for all the advice and doing it step by step helps. Will check insurance rates as well. I know it won't be good.

---

 Not necessarily.  We've been registered and residents of Oklahoma, Colorado, and now Oregon within the last 4 years or so.  (We tend to stay in one spot for at least a year.)  We found that while license tag prices in Oklahoma were cheaper than Colorado, insurance in Colorado was cheaper than Oklahoma.  In Oregon, both tags and insurance are cheaper, although we do now have to pay income tax in Oregon.  Overall, in many cases, it is a trade off, but one has a lot more freedom on purchasing a truck and RV.

Terry

Thanks Terry. Good to know.

Cummins12V98 wrote:

---

Pretty simple, take the loaded truck with hitch, fuel, tool box, people, pets etc. Hit the scales. What does your rear axle weigh? Now take that number from the trucks RAWR. That is your allowable pin weight. Lets use 25% pin to have a tiny bit of fudge factor. Take the available pin weight number X 4 that will give you the MAX GVWR of the 5er you can tow.

Towing capacity is a JOKE and does not apply to 5er's!!! Most everyone who has a 250/2500 ends up with air bags.

---

 If you max out the RGAWR, does that mean you ignore exceeding the tow vehicle's GVWR? Is it okay to exceed the GVWR?

Cyclone Dave wrote:

---

Cummins12V98 wrote:

---

Pretty simple, take the loaded truck with hitch, fuel, tool box, people, pets etc. Hit the scales. What does your rear axle weigh? Now take that number from the trucks RAWR. That is your allowable pin weight. Lets use 25% pin to have a tiny bit of fudge factor. Take the available pin weight number X 4 that will give you the MAX GVWR of the 5er you can tow.

Towing capacity is a JOKE and does not apply to 5er's!!! Most everyone who has a 250/2500 ends up with air bags.

---

 If you max out the RGAWR, does that mean you ignore exceeding the tow vehicle's GVWR? Is it okay to exceed the GVWR?

---

Dave,

You need to be pay attention to all three ratings - RGAWR, GVWR and CGVWR. Any one of them, if exceeded, can expose you safety, reliability or liability issues. The liability situation occurs if you are in an accident and the investigation discovers you exceeded one of these limits, when the Insurance company, the other accident party or road authority may hold you liable to matter the cause, deny insurance coverage or get lawyers involved.  Most 5th wheel towing situations run into the RGAWR or CGVWR limits first. There are a number of gurus on towing numbers on this forum that can advise on specifics - it's where I got a got most of my info. Alternatively, here is a video on the subject from RVSEF

Air bags help the towing and non-towing driving experience, but do not solve any of the RGAWR/GVWR/CGVWR issues.

Gerry

I keep hearing many folks say insurance will be denied, you'll be ticketed, etc. I don't want to get into the weight police debate but does anyone have any real proof that this has ever happened?

Tom

Cyclone Dave wrote:

---

Cummins12V98 wrote:

---

Pretty simple, take the loaded truck with hitch, fuel, tool box, people, pets etc. Hit the scales. What does your rear axle weigh? Now take that number from the trucks RAWR. That is your allowable pin weight. Lets use 25% pin to have a tiny bit of fudge factor. Take the available pin weight number X 4 that will give you the MAX GVWR of the 5er you can tow.

Towing capacity is a JOKE and does not apply to 5er's!!! Most everyone who has a 250/2500 ends up with air bags.

---

 If you max out the RGAWR, does that mean you ignore exceeding the tow vehicle's GVWR? Is it okay to exceed the GVWR?

---

 Just an example.  My trucks GVWR is 14K, my front axle unloaded weight is 5,200# +-.  My RAWR is 9,750# and that is what I run.  By adding those two numbers I am about 1,000# OVER my GVWR.  Am I going to HE!! for this?  I think NOT.  The GVWR is set at 14K to keep my truck in Class 3 for licensing and insurance purposed.  I just need to have tonnage to cover my 6 tires.

Ask any trooper or weight master on any highway if I am overloaded or in any way will get a ticket.  The answer is NO.  Also those that say coverage will be denied please show me a case.  It's called insurance, if you are at fault they will cover you.

Bottom line it's all about what your rear axle can carry as in your rear tires capacity on SRW trucks.  

Cummins12V98 wrote:

---

Cyclone Dave wrote:

---

Cummins12V98 wrote:

---

Pretty simple, take the loaded truck with hitch, fuel, tool box, people, pets etc. Hit the scales. What does your rear axle weigh? Now take that number from the trucks RAWR. That is your allowable pin weight. Lets use 25% pin to have a tiny bit of fudge factor. Take the available pin weight number X 4 that will give you the MAX GVWR of the 5er you can tow.

Towing capacity is a JOKE and does not apply to 5er's!!! Most everyone who has a 250/2500 ends up with air bags.

---

 If you max out the RGAWR, does that mean you ignore exceeding the tow vehicle's GVWR? Is it okay to exceed the GVWR?

---

 Just an example.  My trucks GVWR is 14K, my front axle unloaded weight is 5,200# +-.  My RAWR is 9,750# and that is what I run.  By adding those two numbers I am about 1,000# OVER my GVWR.  Am I going to HE!! for this?  I think NOT.  The GVWR is set at 14K to keep my truck in Class 3 for licensing and insurance purposed.  I just need to have tonnage to cover my 6 tires.

Ask any trooper or weight master on any highway if I am overloaded or in any way will get a ticket.  The answer is NO.  Also those that say coverage will be denied please show me a case.  It's called insurance, if you are at fault they will cover you.

Bottom line it's all about what your rear axle can carry as in your rear tires capacity on SRW trucks.  

-- Edited by Cummins12V98 on Tuesday 4th of July 2017 09:07:16 AM

---

 I'm wondering how many years you have been teaching people that exceeding GVWR does not matter. You know your rear axle towing capacity methodology fails, yet, you appear not to care. 

nineback wrote:

---

I keep hearing many folks say insurance will be denied, you'll be ticketed, etc. I don't want to get into the weight police debate but does anyone have any real proof that this has ever happened?

Tom

---

There are some states that require the owner to declare the maximum weight as part of the vehicle registration. If the owner is caught exceeding the declared registration weight, they can be cited. I have read occasional comments from individuals who got caught and were cited. A few had to unhook and have another truck tow their trailer.

Other than that, I don't know of any other state that will cite a non-commercial towing rig for exceeding any of the weight safety ratings. However, if an LEO sees a rig that appears to be an unsafe combination, there are other laws that one can be cited for. 

nineback wrote:

---

I keep hearing many folks say insurance will be denied, you'll be ticketed, etc. I don't want to get into the weight police debate but does anyone have any real proof that this has ever happened?

 

Tom

---

 I doubt that insurance would be denied ... my insurance company never even asks about weight.  You could be ticketed if you exceed your ratings ... IF you are stopped by an astute and aggressive LEO.  All of that is highly unlikely.

The big thing is Liability ... should something really bad happen, being overweight is something that your insurance company will develop an interest in and lawyers will have equal interest.  Being overweight NEVER works in your favor ... I don't know of anyone that has happened to, but that doesn't mean that I can't predict what would happen if those bad circumstances occurred.

" I'm wondering how many years you have been teaching people that exceeding GVWR does not matter. You know your rear axle towing capacity methodology fails, yet, you appear not to care."

I gave an example of "MY" truck. The fact is if you are pulled over all that matters is what you are licensed for and you are not exceeding you tires ratings.

Please explain what part of my "methodology" is failing.

Why is the F450 rated at 14K ?

Cummins12V98 wrote:

---

" I'm wondering how many years you have been teaching people that exceeding GVWR does not matter. You know your rear axle towing capacity methodology fails, yet, you appear not to care."

I gave an example of "MY" truck. The fact is if you are pulled over all that matters is what you are licensed for and you are not exceeding you tires ratings.

Please explain what part of my "methodology" is failing. 

Why is the F450 rated at 14K ?

-- Edited by Cummins12V98 on Wednesday 5th of July 2017 08:19:58 AM

---

The reason that your rear axle towing capacity methodology fails is contingent on your acceptance that GVWR should not be exceeded. For every vehicle designed to tow, the owner’s manual has numerous towing explanations, cautions and warnings. Every one of these manuals plainly warns that GVWR, GAWR, GCWR, and TWR should never be exceeded. Every legitimate RV safety educator will tell everyone they should not exceed the ratings.

As to where the 14000 GVWR came from, I will not speculate. I have not yet found the methodology that manufacturers use to create the GVWR. The 14000 GVWR may be a limit for insurance purposes. However, I have not read any official document stating that. A legitimate RV safety educator will support vehicle manufacturers instructions, NHTSA and SAE guidelines.

You are free to make your own choices about your towing situation. However, I do not think it is a good idea to share your personal opinion to the public because it goes against everything that is written about towing safety. There is no other official source that I know of offers your methodology.

Examples (random selection)

3500

GVWR 14000

Curb Weight(CW): Ft. 4369, Rr. 3054

FGAWR 5500, RGAWR 9750

Hitch(H) 250, 2 Passengers(P) 350, Cargo(C) 150

((P)350+(C)150)=500/2=250 (Split between front and rear axle)

Ft. (PC)250+(FCW)4369=(FL)4619

Rr. (PC)250+(H)250+(RCW)3054=(RL)3554

Your methodology

(RGAWR)9750-(RL)3554=6196 (Rear axle available PW)

6196X4=24784 towing capacity

GVWR failure

6196+(FL)4619+(RL)3429=14244 (Exceeds GVWR)

2500

GVWR 10000

Curb Weight (CW): Ft. 4852, Rr. 2950

FGAWR 5750, RGAWR 6000

Hitch(H) 250, 2 Passengers(P) 350, Cargo(C) 150

((P)350+(C)150=500)/2=250 (Split between front and rear axle)

Ft. (PC)250+(FCW)4852=5102

Rr. (PC)250+(H)250+(RCW)2950=(RL)3450

Your methodology

(RGAWR)6000-(RL)3450=2550 (Rear axle available PW)

(PW)2550X4=10200 towing capacity

GVWR failure

(PW)2550+(FL)5102+(RL)3450=11102 (Exceeds GVWR)

A legitimate towing capacity calculator will consider all the ratings to ensure none of the ratings are exceeded.

-- Edited by Cyclone Dave on Wednesday 5th of July 2017 10:33:47 AM

I don't want to get in the middle here, but I have always found it curious that when you add the FAWR and the RAWR it exceeds the GVWR of the truck ... in my case the sum of the two ratings is 15,590 but the truck is only rated at 14,000 (the tires aren't the limiting factor).

RonC wrote:

---

I don't want to get in the middle here, but I have always found it curious that when you add the FAWR and the RAWR it exceeds the GVWR of the truck ... in my case the sum of the two ratings is 15,590 but the truck is only rated at 14,000 (the tires aren't the limiting factor).

-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 5th of July 2017 11:47:21 AM

---

Yep, that's an odd thing. I've never read an official clarification on that. The best that I have determined is that GVWR considers the weakest link or links in the load bearing components to arrive at a safe rating. However, I have seen the sum of two rear tire load ratings were less than the RGAWR. 

Maybe this page will help a bit. A lesson on GCWR.

Cummins12V98 wrote:

---

"Curb Weight(CW): Ft. 4369, Rr. 3054"

^^^^^ That looks like 2wd GASSER Dually weights.

---

 Nope. Ram 2017 Regular Cab, 4X2, DRW, 6.7 Cummins Diesel (HO), 4.10

Cyclone Dave wrote:

---

Cummins12V98 wrote:

---

"Curb Weight(CW): Ft. 4369, Rr. 3054"

^^^^^ That looks like 2wd GASSER Dually weights.

---

 Nope. Ram 2017 Regular Cab, 4X2, DRW, 6.7 Cummins Diesel (HO), 4.10

---

Got it!  Forgot the front axle was only thinking the engine and transfer case. 

RonC wrote:

---

I vote for the Acme😜

---

 But...but...but...

...didn't Wile E. Coyote buy from Acme all the time?

Terry

YesTerry and Jo wrote:

---

RonC wrote:

---

I vote for the Acme😜

---

 But...but...but...

...didn't Wile E. Coyote buy from Acme all the time?

Terry

---

 Yes he did.  On the downside, his plans did not work out very often.  On the upside, he never died.

However, I have seen the sum of two rear tire load ratings were less than the RGAWR. 

Are you sure about that?  I don't think that would be legal, at least not new from the OEM.  I can see someone replacing tires and getting in that situation, but not new from the factory.

You also mentioned that the rating total GVWR was based on the "weakest link" ... while I agree with that, I'm not sure how that would change as the FAWR and the RAWR are already based on the "weakest link" ... still keeping the mystery of why the GVWR isn't the sum of the FAWR and the RAWR.

RonC wrote:

---

You also mentioned that the rating total GVWR was based on the "weakest link" ... while I agree with that, I'm not sure how that would change as the FAWR and the RAWR are already based on the "weakest link" ... still keeping the mystery of why the GVWR isn't the sum of the FAWR and the RAWR.

---

 Ron:  If I am understanding your mystery question correctly:  Many factors go into the GVWR in addition to what the axles can "support."  One is braking.  I.e. meeting a braking standard (distance) for a given amount of total weight of the vehicle traveling at a  given speed.

The correct comment about the 14,000lb limit, even though the axles are capable of more - and maybe the braking is as well - does indeed have to do with "commercial" ratings, insurance companies and state registration.  All of these, especially insurance and state registration, are different depending on the state.  In some states it is very expensive to register a truck over 14,000 lbs and moreover some insurance companies in some states won't even insure those trucks based on "private" use and hence lower, private use rates are not available.

All that said to say why trucks like the F-450 (pickup) RAM 3500HD, F-350, etc. are considered Class III and not Class IV trucks even though they may have components (not all of them) from Class IV trucks.  They are specifically speced to be Class III so they can be insured and registered as private vehicles.  But those Class III specs are the legal specs.

So, when shopping you identify a couple of contenders on Craigslist, or whatever Internet site. Few give the intimate details of gear ratios and specific tow info.
How do you get that info? Call a dealer with the VIN number?  Door sticker?

Acheron2010 wrote:

---

So, when shopping you identify a couple of contenders on Craigslist, or whatever Internet site. Few give the intimate details of gear ratios and specific tow info.
How do you get that info? Call a dealer with the VIN number?  Door sticker?

---

 I won't swear to this because I haven't kept up with all the changes over the years, but I think the door sticker does give much of that information, at least to gear ratio and weights.  However, it won't give all the information on the weights.

Also, only use "tow ratings" as a rough ballpark figure.  If I were to hook onto a trailer that was as heavy as the "tow rating" for our F450, I would be over on GCVW and GAWR.  Many tow ratings are calculated using a goose-neck trailer and not a fifth wheel trailer.  The two types of trailers are constructed differently, thus allowing one to tow a goose neck that is heavier than a fifth wheel.

Also, much depends on how old the truck may be.  It has been mentioned that the Ford F450 is rated at 14,000 lbs so as to fall into the class 3 category, however, Howard and Linda's and our F450 are older trucks and likely do fall into the class 4 category because of a 14,500 lb GVWR.

Terry

Do yourself a favor and buy a 3500.........it will save yourself a lot of time and trouble in the long run.....stay away from Ford 6.0,Ford 6.4...troublesome....and get an 8ft bed,longer wheelbase is more stable///

Acheron2010 wrote:

---

It should not be this difficult.
Some independent testing organization should be able to compile a list of trucks versus allowable towing capacity and maintain it current. If I am about to purchase a 5th wheel with a 14,000 gross weight, I should be able to know without hesitation the Acme 3500 double rear wheel diesel long bed or the Beta 4500 or the Charlie 3500 will do the job.
Shopping for such a used unit seems much more challenging that getting the trailer, weeding through the flatbeds and utility trucks and farm trucks and dog catcher trucks. My eyes glaze over.
Rant ends.

---

It's not that difficult when using the right tool for the job. After entering the four minimum weight requirements into RV Tow Check, a person can read realistic vehicle towing capacities based on various pin weight percentages. 

No independent testing can account for all the possible towing requirements for every family size and weight requirements.