5th Wheel Selection (regular RV – not toy hauler). Have a long list of criteria of wants, options and wishes. Started from a Howard/Linda blog! Now well over a 100 items! But after looking at a lot of companies (>20) and RVs (100+), we are down to just a few for final evaluation. New Horizon, DRV, Space Craft, Redwood. Have only looked at DRV, New Horizon and Space Craft online. Plan to visit company or dealer next month. Any thoughts? Recommendations? Someone I really need to add? Any other advice?
tktoth said
06:20 PM May 7, 2017
The best one is what fits your criteria. There are price point differences besides pros and cons with each. We have a DRV. To me, for the price, they have the best chassis and insulation package. Those were key, plus we found the perfect floor plan for us.
You are taking the right steps to find the one for you.
Neil and Connie said
07:04 AM May 8, 2017
NH and Spacecraft are true custom builders and will pretty much do what you want. DRV will do (at least when we checked back in 2012) very little as it interferes with the production line. Don't know either way about Redwood. To my mind DRV and maybe Redwood are in a different class/market segment/don't really know what to call it than the other two. Of course, custom builds cost more…but that's part of what you're paying more for.
Whatever best meets your requirements and budget is what you should get.
-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Monday 8th of May 2017 07:05:28 AM
Bill and Linda said
07:22 AM May 8, 2017
Neil and Connie wrote:
NH and Spacecraft are true custom builders and will pretty much do what you want. DRV will do (at least when we checked back in 2012) very little as it interferes with the production line. Don't know either way about Redwood. To my mind DRV and maybe Redwood are in a different class/market segment/don't really know what to call it than the other two. Of course, custom builds cost more…but that's part of what you're paying more for.
Whatever best meets your requirements and budget is what you should get.
-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Monday 8th of May 2017 07:05:28 AM
What Neil said. But be careful about weight capabilities on the lighter trailers.
From there did lots of online research, read reviews, and did dealer and RV show visits. We looked at lots of layouts and construction (underneath and inside) and read lots of forum entries. Howard's (and my modifications) four-season residential criteria, that support travel, quickly shortened the list. The Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC) criteria alone eliminated most weekend or vacation 5th wheels and almost all toy haulers get eliminated on basic insulation/"high quality" criteria.
On the top of the list are the four custom manufacturers - Continental Coach by Forks RV, New horizons, Space Craft and Recreation By Design. Two are back East (Indiana) and two in the mid-west (Kansas/Missouri). I live in Colorado, so did not want to deal with a very long distance relationship. Space Craft's volumes are low. Have had numerous discussions with New Horizons and will visit in June. Space Craft also.
At the Tier One level are DRV, Augusta and Redwood. All of these are select from a set of models and maybe select from some options through the dealer. DRV and Redwood are through dealers only. Redwood is owned by Thor. They have a local dealer with limited inventory. Solid design, but a bit dated style. My closest DRV dealer is in Kansas, so will visit them next month. Augusta (Luxe) was bought out by The RV Factory late last year. Nice modern design and features. They did not publish their Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC) anywhere! After interrogating their sales rep their CCC turned out to be in the 1,800-2,000 lb range before options. Dropped from the list. The transition to The RV Factory made a lot of customers nervous and they seemed to have some "startup" issues.
There are a number of other good choices in the category 2 and 3 layer. With all the buy-outs and pressure in the industry, these selections and category rankings will change often. Some new players like Grand Design have potential - fresh designs and features. Not quite residential quality yet - my criteria/opinion.
With all this I think I'm down to New Horizon, DRV, Space Craft and Redwood. On the toy hauler (residential) side, the list get short fast - New Horizon, DRV, and Space Craft. They rest of the toy hauler fall into the weekend warrior category.
The prioritization of our criteria (trade-offs) and budget will be the ultimate decider. Features, quality and cost - select!
Hope I did not offend anyone's RV selection!
Lynn and Ed said
12:49 AM May 9, 2017
As Bill and Neil have shared, factory visits are a good idea—make sure you are seeing the factory when it is in action (e.g., not after hours). Ask about their quality control processes and warranty service; approaches that likely vary between the different RV makers. Also, I cannot stress enough the value of attending an owner’s group rally as a “Wannabie” –you will see older models and how they have held-up over time, see what individuals have chosen to add/change in their RVs (particularly relevant if you choose a custom RV) and gain some insights from existing owners.
If you decide you would like to learn more about New Horizons, the owner’s group rally is scheduled for Sep 21-25, 2017 in Spearfish SD. The rally masters are Gary and June Wall, they can be contacted at NHOG2017 at gmail dot com. And as an added bonus (ideally), you will also have the opportunity to meet Neil & Connie, Bill & Linda, myself (as well as Ed ).
-- Edited by Lynn and Ed on Tuesday 9th of May 2017 01:26:08 AM
Neil and Connie said
08:26 AM May 9, 2017
What Lynn and Ed said…if you're seriously considering a NH…hit up the factory and then come to the rally. You'll be able to talk to owners, tour units, and hear all the good as well as the not so good from the owner perspective. The NHOG rally almost always has some wannabe's and there cabins on site.
We've toured a Spacecraft several times at the Tampa RV show…and while it's obviously well built…IIRC it was actually a bit heavier than an equivalently sized NH…and all the ones we've seen are much more modernistic/futuristic inside than a NH is…NHs have lots of nice wood and warm colors and the Spacecraft is much more…well, space craft looking I guess. Nothing wrong with that…but it's not Early American styling.
If the Augusta only has 1800-2000 pounds of CCC before options…that's not enough for fulltiming. We're 18something dry and 23,320 loaded so figure about 5K of actual cargo needed for full timing. Lynn and Ed probably have more cargo weight than we do.
Bill and Linda said
10:52 AM May 9, 2017
Yea, guess I will jump on the NHOG Rally bandwagon and encourage you to attend. You don't need a NH rig to come. We like everyone. LOL
The point is, based on a lot of your posts, to really find out about things from current owners. This isn't a factory sponsored gathering (although NH will kick in a few bucks and all appreciate that) so its up to the participants to run the show. We'll have presentations from experts like Gary from MORryde who can tell you a great deal about suspensions and tires applicable to all RV's not just NH. Facts is facts. There will be other so called "expert" presentations that can help newbie's and wannabees with things NH and RV's in general. And naturally the "social" aspects are there.
The thing to remember about NH (and Space Craft) is they are not build in a day. That is, especially with the Majestic line, don't expect to design it and have it in a month. These are not, like DRV's, etc. large "production line" trailers. That is they take time to design and get built. The NH Summit line is going to come out of production faster but I'm not sure how much faster. But Cole has probably told you all that.
Be careful about the cargo capacity as has been mentioned about the Augusta. Unless some changes have been made the upper end coach has little "your stuff" capacity left once you put on the usual options. I've discussed that with them at length. It's a nice trailer but I have reservations about it for your stated purpose. Redwood builds a nice rig but again check closely the capacity for all the "stuff" you plan to carry.
As you may know Forks / Continental Coach has ceased operations and actually sold off there equipment / tools. We were by the Forks plant a couple of weeks go. Nothing there any longer but a sign and an empty building.
Feel free to PM me, or anyone else I'm sure, about the Rally or NH in general. None of us will try to sell you a NH. Just give you info. Lynn & Ed and Neil & Connie as well as Linda and myself do some serious traveling in their rig. So whatever that experience is worth I'm sure all will be glad to share. All of us know the rig "numbers" very well and are always sharing info with each other. We have our rig preferences but that doesn't make them or any rig for that matter the best rig. But the specs and numbers are what they are and you can't fudge them or you will break something. Seen that too many times.
BTW, you don't even need a rig to come to the rally. There are cabin accommodations there as well.
Bill
IrishRover said
12:05 PM May 9, 2017
Lynn and Ed wrote:
As Bill and Neil have shared, factory visits are a good idea—make sure you are seeing the factory when it is in action (e.g., not after hours). Ask about their quality control processes and warranty service; approaches that likely vary between the different RV makers. Also, I cannot stress enough the value of attending an owner’s group rally as a “Wannabie” –you will see older models and how they have held-up over time, see what individuals have chosen to add/change in their RVs (particularly relevant if you choose a custom RV) and gain some insights from existing owners.
If you decide you would like to learn more about New Horizons, the owner’s group rally is scheduled for Sep 21-25, 2017 in Spearfish SD. The rally masters are Gary and June Wall, they can be contacted at NHOG2017 at gmail dot com. And as an added bonus (ideally), you will also have the opportunity to meet Neil & Connie, Bill & Linda, myself (as well as Ed ).
-- Edited by Lynn and Ed on Tuesday 9th of May 2017 01:26:08 AM
Great idea Lynn,
The factory visits, then the rally We might also consider Howard's Fall RV-Dreams Rally (end of Sept) or the Escapees Boot Camp (Nov). Any views on these, one over the other or do they cover a lot of the same material?
it would be wonderful to meet you all - a goldmine of information and experience.
Neil and Connie wrote:
What Lynn and Ed said…if you're seriously considering a NH…hit up the factory and then come to the rally. You'll be able to talk to owners, tour units, and hear all the good as well as the not so good from the owner perspective. The NHOG rally almost always has some wannabe's and there cabins on site.
We've toured a Spacecraft several times at the Tampa RV show…and while it's obviously well built…IIRC it was actually a bit heavier than an equivalently sized NH…and all the ones we've seen are much more modernistic/futuristic inside than a NH is…NHs have lots of nice wood and warm colors and the Spacecraft is much more…well, space craft looking I guess. Nothing wrong with that…but it's not Early American styling.
If the Augusta only has 1800-2000 pounds of CCC before options…that's not enough for fulltiming. We're 18something dry and 23,320 loaded so figure about 5K of actual cargo needed for full timing. Lynn and Ed probably have more cargo weight than we do.
It is important for my wife (Pat) to be able to see, feel and touch the design before deciding. YouTube videos only get you so much! On the style aspect, it is all very personal. I will probably not get much of a vote here!! We have gone through the tradition oak look and will get a push back there. Now living in the modern white look. New Horizons is also starting to incorporate modern looks - . Will just have to go see Cole.
On CCC I was going on Howard's guidance of a minimum of 3,000 (maybe 4,000) after all the heavy options - Washer/Dryer, Generator, Batteries, etc. Just the 3,000 CCC before options takes an awful lot of RVs off the full-time residential category.
Gerry
AB0GF
73s
Bill and Linda said
01:18 PM May 9, 2017
IrishRover wrote:
It is important for my wife (Pat) to be able to see, feel and touch the design before deciding. YouTube videos only get you so much! On the style aspect, it is all very personal. I will probably not get much of a vote here!! We have gone through the tradition oak look and will get a push back there. Now living in the modern white look. New Horizons is also starting to incorporate modern looks - . Will just have to go see Cole.
On CCC I was going on Howard's guidance of a minimum of 3,000 (maybe 4,000) after all the heavy options - Washer/Dryer, Generator, Batteries, etc. Just the 3,000 CCC before options takes an awful lot of RVs off the full-time residential category.
Gerry
AB0GF
73s
Gerry: The only thing scarier than Cole on Youtube is Cole in person. Nah, he's a very good rep and loves the design process. He knows the tech but is a creative type and I'm sure you will enjoy meeting him and Pat working on the interior elements which he's very good at.
Pat will most definitely need to actually see some of these Majestic trailers in person. If she's never seen one she will probably do the "Oh my gosh thing." Many do the first time based on what I've seen in person. The better her reaction the quicker you need to grab you wallet. Just be forewarned.
As to the CCC - that's one of the things NH does best. They guarantee 3,000 CCC on delivery. That is after your options are installed. But always important to review all that during the design and the signing of the drawings process. You do actually approve the custom drawings for your trailer if its a Majestic custom.
As to the Rallies mentioned, Howard & Linda do a very good full-timers rally with loads of information. But they have to cover a lot of material so a lot of the very technical material like we have been discussing has to be simplified. All three of us, Ed/Lynn/Neil/Connie, Linda and I have been to their Rallies. Linda and I have been to like 5 or so and enjoyed meeting the people. I do recommend the RV-Dreams Rally but you will be drinking out of a fire hose with information. A lot of "life style" information. IMO you will get more from the rally after seeing more rigs in person and talking with RVers with experience in the type of rig and travel you envision. Linda and I feel you get more from the presentations after you have some frame of reference. Or go more than once. That's our view and after doing some presentations at rallies I agree with her point. FWIW and hope that helps.
Bill
Terry and Jo said
07:45 PM Jun 12, 2017
Gerry,
If you are still considering DRV's, I would advise also getting in touch with Alicia at Rolling Retreats in Elk City, Oklahoma. Within the DRV community at the forums dedicated to DRV owners, they have an excellent reputation for both customer service and quality of work and information. I know of at least one or two people that went from Washington state and New York that dealt with them and were glad they did.
We met Alicia and Slade way back in 2008 or 2009 while researching for our DRV. At the time, they were buying used DRV's at auction and hauling them back to Oklahoma and refurbishing and cleaning them. In time, they became dealers for new DRV's and still have DRV's as their only brand. For a dealership with no other brand to help their cash flow, they have been able to stay in business and get an excellent reputation.
Incidentally, the last I knew, which was 2014 when we last saw them, Alicia and Slade were THE primary employees of the dealership. They do get a little help from others, but they don't need much.
Terry
IrishRover said
08:16 PM Jun 12, 2017
Thanks Terry,
I've had a couple of other people tell me the same thing, including a fairly recent purchase there. We were initially working through Mike Mitchell the owner of The Kansas RV Center. The area DRV rep steered us there, as that was the place with the DRV model we were interested in.They had two. Unfortunately I had a delay due to surgery and now both units at the Kansas RV Center are sold. Last I checked, Rolling Retreats did not have that model either. So, now our only option is to do a DRV factory visit at the right time (when that model on the production line). In the meantime we are visiting two other RV manufacturers. With the right timing and luck we might get to see that DRV model this year. I will reach out to Rolling Retreats in the meantime to see what other options they might recommend. Thanks for your help.
Gerry
Neil and Connie said
12:50 PM Jun 13, 2017
Even if the tour doesn't have the model you're interested in on the production line you can still gauge the build quality, construction details, and attention (or not) to doing things right…all of that is a lot more important than seeing your actual floor plan under construction, although if you can work it out that's fine too.
Acheron2010 said
06:25 AM Jun 16, 2017
Is it worth considering a used DRV for the "good bones" of strong frame and high quality systems and components, and redesigning the interior to your particular tastes? Are there end-of-life issues for axles, brakes, roof, tanks, or other to be concerned about? Is that something the DRV factory would take on, or better going through a RV remodeling firm? For example, keep all the appliances and lights, but replace all wood trim, all cabinet front trim and doors, countertops and all furniture.
Dave and Denise said
07:52 AM Jun 16, 2017
Wile not high end as a DRV, we have been perfectly happy with our Arctic Fox 32-5M by Northwood. I have found them to be very well built and a good value for the dollar.
kb0zke said
07:34 PM Jun 24, 2017
Bill, if you throw enough money at it you can make almost anything fly. Is it worth it? Only you can answer that question. When the first DRV was manufactured, my Foretravel was already 10 years old. In the four years we've had this coach we've done some upgrades (new MCD shades, new residential refrigerator, new inverter, new converter/charger, etc.). Would we get the cost of those items back if we would sell? No. Will they help the coach sell? Yes. They also make our lives easier.
Quite a few Airstreams are running around with the original frame and shell, but completely new interiors and running gear. Others are as original as possible. Your money, your choice.
Replacing visual items can improve the appearance, or it can detract from it. Earlier this year we looked at an Airstream that had been "updated." The original woodwork had been (poorly) painted white. The seller raved about the updated look. All I saw was the work to remove all that paint and refinish the wood. In his view he had improved the trailer. In my view he had damaged it.
Before we bought our Foretravel, I called one of the custom 5th wheel companies to see what it would cost to have a new 5'er with no slides made. While they didn't outright refuse to make such a coach, all they had to say was negative. The price was no less, even though it would obviously be cheaper to make a coach without slides. Why? in their minds I would be "ruining" their product. We bought our Foretravel (no slides) and spent the additional money making it the way we want it.
Hdrider said
09:10 AM Jun 25, 2017
I would be curious to hear back from you after doing the factory tours. We have been fulltime for almost 5 years in a motorhome and have not regretted it one bit but have always said when we slow down and don't move almost every week we would move over to a 5th wheel. We to plan to tour the DRV and New Horizons factories when we pass through those areas in a few months soo that if the time comes that we change within the next couple years we will at least have a better idea of what's what. Another idea is to join forums for the particular brands, you can learn a lot that way. I tried to join the DRV Owners site on Facebook but have been on hold for 2 weeks LOL, maybe they don't want outsiders looking in but listening to owners is huge. W may just stay at the same campground that a rally is planned in Michigan this fall in hope of meeting and talking to owners. Anyway good luck and check back in with your thoughts after the tours.
-- Edited by Hdrider on Sunday 25th of June 2017 09:20:19 AM
IrishRover said
10:43 AM Jun 25, 2017
Hdrider wrote:
I would be curious to hear back from you after doing the factory tours. We have been fulltime for almost 5 years in a motorhome and have not regretted it one bit but have always said when we slow down and don't move almost every week we would move over to a 5th wheel. We to plan to tour the DRV and New Horizons factories when we pass through those areas in a few months soo that if the time comes that we change within the next couple years we will at least have a better idea of what's what. Another idea is to join forums for the particular brands, you can learn a lot that way. I tried to join the DRV Owners site on Facebook but have been on hold for 2 weeks LOL, maybe they don't want outsiders looking in but listening to owners is huge. W may just stay at the same campground that a rally is planned in Michigan this fall in hope of meeting and talking to owners. Anyway good luck and check back in with your thoughts after the tours.
-- Edited by Hdrider on Sunday 25th of June 2017 09:20:19 AM
Factory tours are a great idea. Ask lots of questions. Try to take pictures, video!!! We are also looking at New Horizon and DRV for full-timing next year. We are doing a New Horizon factory tour next week and then see when we can fit in a DRV visit. When you contact New Horizons, ask for Cole Brokenicky.
A second great option is to attend the NHOG (New Horizons Owners Group) and Suite Owners groups annual or periodic rallies. The next NHOG rally is Sept 21-25 in Spearfish SD. The DRV International Rally is in Elkhart, ID on Aug 21-25th (factory tour at the same time??). There you will see lots of different real lived-in examples and be actually able to talk with the real owners about their experiences. They do encourage wantabees or even people with no RV/MHs to attend.
The DRV and New Horizons forums are there, but I have found that they are not very active. At one stage I checked on the DRV forum and there had been no postings for months. Checked now, are there are a few from today. I think you are better off asking on this forum or Escapees and asking specific DRV and New Horizon questions. There are a number of great regular users on this forum that have lots of New Horizon and DRV knowledge that they are willing to share. Just ask!!
Terry and Jo said
01:48 PM Jul 1, 2017
Hdrider wrote:
I would be curious to hear back from you after doing the factory tours. We have been fulltime for almost 5 years in a motorhome and have not regretted it one bit but have always said when we slow down and don't move almost every week we would move over to a 5th wheel. We to plan to tour the DRV and New Horizons factories when we pass through those areas in a few months soo that if the time comes that we change within the next couple years we will at least have a better idea of what's what. Another idea is to join forums for the particular brands, you can learn a lot that way. I tried to join the DRV Owners site on Facebook but have been on hold for 2 weeks LOL, maybe they don't want outsiders looking in but listening to owners is huge. W may just stay at the same campground that a rally is planned in Michigan this fall in hope of meeting and talking to owners. Anyway good luck and check back in with your thoughts after the tours.
-- Edited by Hdrider on Sunday 25th of June 2017 09:20:19 AM
When we were first researching RV's, including both fifth wheels and motor homes, we signed up with a number of forums, even though we didn't own any of those. We still got good answers to our questions.
Terry
IrishRover said
04:43 PM Jul 30, 2017
Sharon,
It is a beautiful setup. Saw it a couple of years ago when Richard did the video with Gregg. We have not finalized our decision yet. It will be later this year before we do so and then start full-time in the Spring. We are really looking for a toy hauler. We did look at a DRV JX450, but will probably go with New Horizon or SpaceCraft.
Wish you and Richard all the best and welcome to beautiful Colorado. Don't tell anyone else about it, as we have gotten a lot of new people in the last few years. We just live north of Denver.
Gerry
rocketman said
07:08 PM Aug 27, 2017
Look at OPEN RANGE......LOVE MINE...
IrishRover said
07:09 PM Aug 29, 2017
riverdreamer wrote:
IrishRover wrote:
Sharon,
It is a beautiful setup. Saw it a couple of years ago when Richard did the video with Gregg. We have not finalized our decision yet. It will be later this year before we do so and then start full-time in the Spring. We are really looking for a toy hauler. We did look at a DRV JX450, but will probably go with New Horizon or SpaceCraft.
Wish you and Richard all the best and welcome to beautiful Colorado. Don't tell anyone else about it, as we have gotten a lot of new people in the last few years. We just live north of Denver.
Gerry
Gerry - I wish you the best of luck in finding that perfect match for you. I assume you were at the National Rally when we did the video? You coming this year? Sadly, it will be our last one. Hubby's eyesight forces the retirement of the lifestyle. Back to sticks and bricks again (and a garden - yay)! Happy "house hunting"!
Sharon
Sharon,
Just saw the video on Greg's site, but will be at the HDT Rally this year. I'm sure you will have no issue with finding a buyer there, if not sold before then. On another forum (HDT), there are lots of new people interested and planning on going to Hutch. Hope to see you and Richard there.
Where is Colorado are you looking at? The market is still very hot ($$$) here.
Gerry
2 4 d hwy said
07:27 PM Sep 4, 2017
Just purchased from the RV Factory. We have the Ambition 35 RS. (the Luxe was out of our price range) Our carrying capacity is just under 3500 lbs. Not sure if they are still on your list but they were wonderful to work with and we spoke to owners who were having work done on their rigs while we were there to pick up our new rig. They all loved their Luxes. One remarked that on his travels from Wisconsin to Florida each year they have forgotten things on the kitchen counters and because of their independent suspensions there was no movement. One spoke of his daughters sleeping on the bed while traveling and they felt little swaying or movement while they were riding in the camper. We have lived in ours for nearly two months now. We had an Excel Limited that we lived in for the last 9 years. We loved the layout. We hope the Ambition will be as comfortable to live in. I do think I have more storage. Good luck in your search.
mds1 said
05:18 PM Sep 8, 2017
2 4 d hwy - good choice on the Ambition! We went to the factory last year when they were merging Augusta and the RV Factory. Really like the Ambition and especially the 35 RS which as I recall is 37'. I'm in the process of looking at fifth wheels in the next lower price point as Augusta's pricing has been creeping up the last couple years - rightfully I would add. So spending a lot of time looking at the Redwood (340RL - 3401RL) and Landmark (Oshkosh) as both are floor plans we are interested in. We considered the Vilano and have been watching that trailer from day one but it remains a lower scoring selection for us.
Still planning to make a run at Augusta on the price thing once we get closer to buying. Although I suspect they have no reason to come done much on the MSRP below what they publish. Another consideration for us is weight and do we want to stay closer to 16,500 with maybe a deck out Montana, Bighorn-Big Country or Cedar Creek Hathaway.
What other trailers did you seriously consider before the Ambition? We will most likely make our decision once the 2019 models come out. And then even decide on used vs. new. Ain't no used Ambitions out there!
-- Edited by mds1 on Friday 8th of September 2017 05:20:41 PM
LoverMusic2416 said
02:35 PM Oct 8, 2017
We are considering purchasing an Arctic Fox 32-5M or 35-5Z. Four season design is very appealing. Unfortunately, we live on the east coast where Arctic Fox dealers are almost non-existent. To see these models in person we will need to find a dealer with a decent inventory or find an upcoming RV show that includes the Arctic Fox fifth wheels. Northwood Mfg wasn't at the Hershey RV Show in Sept. What dealer did you use for your purchase?
Dave and Denise said
05:39 PM Oct 8, 2017
We purchased our 2016 Arctic Fox 32-5m from Kelly RV in West Milton, PA. Great mom and pop dealership. They will take good care of you. We would be more than glad to let you see our 5th wheel. We are currently mid state New Hampshire and will be moving outside of Albany, NY until October 22 when we put it in storage and head back to Florida.
mds1 said
06:55 PM Oct 8, 2017
Some friends were in Washington State and did some walk-throughs of various RV's, posting video on YouTube. Several of us wanted them to look at the Arctic Fox because there are no dealerships near us.
-- Edited by mds1 on Sunday 8th of October 2017 06:57:52 PM
LoverMusic2416 said
09:32 PM Oct 9, 2017
I have a friend living in nearby Milton. I am familiar with the area. I checked out the Kelly RV website. Thank you.
kb0zke said
10:23 AM Oct 11, 2017
"Another is "what can I get to when the slides are all in" - in case of really windy or stormy weather, or when in a truck stop or something similar... " That's a problem for almost all towables with slides. For some reason, it isn't as big a problem with motor homes. One of the reasons why we have a coach with no slides.
5th Wheel Selection (regular RV – not toy hauler). Have a long list of criteria of wants, options and wishes. Started from a Howard/Linda blog! Now well over a 100 items! But after looking at a lot of companies (>20) and RVs (100+), we are down to just a few for final evaluation. New Horizon, DRV, Space Craft, Redwood. Have only looked at DRV, New Horizon and Space Craft online. Plan to visit company or dealer next month. Any thoughts? Recommendations? Someone I really need to add? Any other advice?
NH and Spacecraft are true custom builders and will pretty much do what you want. DRV will do (at least when we checked back in 2012) very little as it interferes with the production line. Don't know either way about Redwood. To my mind DRV and maybe Redwood are in a different class/market segment/don't really know what to call it than the other two. Of course, custom builds cost more…but that's part of what you're paying more for.
Whatever best meets your requirements and budget is what you should get.
-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Monday 8th of May 2017 07:05:28 AM
What Neil said. But be careful about weight capabilities on the lighter trailers.
Neil, Bill,
I initially used Howard's criteria and RV manufacturer categories - http://rv-dreams.typepad.com/rvdreams_journal/2016/04/what-fifth-wheel-would-we-buy-today.html
From there did lots of online research, read reviews, and did dealer and RV show visits. We looked at lots of layouts and construction (underneath and inside) and read lots of forum entries. Howard's (and my modifications) four-season residential criteria, that support travel, quickly shortened the list. The Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC) criteria alone eliminated most weekend or vacation 5th wheels and almost all toy haulers get eliminated on basic insulation/"high quality" criteria.
On the top of the list are the four custom manufacturers - Continental Coach by Forks RV, New horizons, Space Craft and Recreation By Design. Two are back East (Indiana) and two in the mid-west (Kansas/Missouri). I live in Colorado, so did not want to deal with a very long distance relationship. Space Craft's volumes are low. Have had numerous discussions with New Horizons and will visit in June. Space Craft also.
At the Tier One level are DRV, Augusta and Redwood. All of these are select from a set of models and maybe select from some options through the dealer. DRV and Redwood are through dealers only. Redwood is owned by Thor. They have a local dealer with limited inventory. Solid design, but a bit dated style. My closest DRV dealer is in Kansas, so will visit them next month. Augusta (Luxe) was bought out by The RV Factory late last year. Nice modern design and features. They did not publish their Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC) anywhere! After interrogating their sales rep their CCC turned out to be in the 1,800-2,000 lb range before options. Dropped from the list. The transition to The RV Factory made a lot of customers nervous and they seemed to have some "startup" issues.
There are a number of other good choices in the category 2 and 3 layer. With all the buy-outs and pressure in the industry, these selections and category rankings will change often. Some new players like Grand Design have potential - fresh designs and features. Not quite residential quality yet - my criteria/opinion.
With all this I think I'm down to New Horizon, DRV, Space Craft and Redwood. On the toy hauler (residential) side, the list get short fast - New Horizon, DRV, and Space Craft. They rest of the toy hauler fall into the weekend warrior category.
The prioritization of our criteria (trade-offs) and budget will be the ultimate decider. Features, quality and cost - select!
Hope I did not offend anyone's RV selection!
As Bill and Neil have shared, factory visits are a good idea—make sure you are seeing the factory when it is in action (e.g., not after hours). Ask about their quality control processes and warranty service; approaches that likely vary between the different RV makers. Also, I cannot stress enough the value of attending an owner’s group rally as a “Wannabie” –you will see older models and how they have held-up over time, see what individuals have chosen to add/change in their RVs (particularly relevant if you choose a custom RV) and gain some insights from existing owners.
If you decide you would like to learn more about New Horizons, the owner’s group rally is scheduled for Sep 21-25, 2017 in Spearfish SD. The rally masters are Gary and June Wall, they can be contacted at NHOG2017 at gmail dot com. And as an added bonus (ideally), you will also have the opportunity to meet Neil & Connie, Bill & Linda, myself (as well as Ed
).
-- Edited by Lynn and Ed on Tuesday 9th of May 2017 01:26:08 AM
What Lynn and Ed said…if you're seriously considering a NH…hit up the factory and then come to the rally. You'll be able to talk to owners, tour units, and hear all the good as well as the not so good from the owner perspective. The NHOG rally almost always has some wannabe's and there cabins on site.
We've toured a Spacecraft several times at the Tampa RV show…and while it's obviously well built…IIRC it was actually a bit heavier than an equivalently sized NH…and all the ones we've seen are much more modernistic/futuristic inside than a NH is…NHs have lots of nice wood and warm colors and the Spacecraft is much more…well, space craft looking I guess. Nothing wrong with that…but it's not Early American styling.
If the Augusta only has 1800-2000 pounds of CCC before options…that's not enough for fulltiming. We're 18something dry and 23,320 loaded so figure about 5K of actual cargo needed for full timing. Lynn and Ed probably have more cargo weight than we do.
Yea, guess I will jump on the NHOG Rally bandwagon and encourage you to attend. You don't need a NH rig to come. We like everyone. LOL
The point is, based on a lot of your posts, to really find out about things from current owners. This isn't a factory sponsored gathering (although NH will kick in a few bucks and all appreciate that) so its up to the participants to run the show. We'll have presentations from experts like Gary from MORryde who can tell you a great deal about suspensions and tires applicable to all RV's not just NH. Facts is facts. There will be other so called "expert" presentations that can help newbie's and wannabees with things NH and RV's in general. And naturally the "social" aspects are there.
The thing to remember about NH (and Space Craft) is they are not build in a day. That is, especially with the Majestic line, don't expect to design it and have it in a month. These are not, like DRV's, etc. large "production line" trailers. That is they take time to design and get built. The NH Summit line is going to come out of production faster but I'm not sure how much faster. But Cole has probably told you all that.
Be careful about the cargo capacity as has been mentioned about the Augusta. Unless some changes have been made the upper end coach has little "your stuff" capacity left once you put on the usual options. I've discussed that with them at length. It's a nice trailer but I have reservations about it for your stated purpose. Redwood builds a nice rig but again check closely the capacity for all the "stuff" you plan to carry.
As you may know Forks / Continental Coach has ceased operations and actually sold off there equipment / tools. We were by the Forks plant a couple of weeks go. Nothing there any longer but a sign and an empty building.
Feel free to PM me, or anyone else I'm sure, about the Rally or NH in general. None of us will try to sell you a NH. Just give you info. Lynn & Ed and Neil & Connie as well as Linda and myself do some serious traveling in their rig. So whatever that experience is worth I'm sure all will be glad to share. All of us know the rig "numbers" very well and are always sharing info with each other. We have our rig preferences but that doesn't make them or any rig for that matter the best rig. But the specs and numbers are what they are and you can't fudge them or you will break something. Seen that too many times.
BTW, you don't even need a rig to come to the rally. There are cabin accommodations there as well.
Bill
Great idea Lynn,
The factory visits, then the rally We might also consider Howard's Fall RV-Dreams Rally (end of Sept) or the Escapees Boot Camp (Nov). Any views on these, one over the other or do they cover a lot of the same material?
it would be wonderful to meet you all - a goldmine of information and experience.
It is important for my wife (Pat) to be able to see, feel and touch the design before deciding. YouTube videos only get you so much! On the style aspect, it is all very personal. I will probably not get much of a vote here!! We have gone through the tradition oak look and will get a push back there. Now living in the modern white look. New Horizons is also starting to incorporate modern looks - . Will just have to go see Cole.
On CCC I was going on Howard's guidance of a minimum of 3,000 (maybe 4,000) after all the heavy options - Washer/Dryer, Generator, Batteries, etc. Just the 3,000 CCC before options takes an awful lot of RVs off the full-time residential category.
Gerry
AB0GF
73s
Gerry: The only thing scarier than Cole on Youtube is Cole in person. Nah, he's a very good rep and loves the design process. He knows the tech but is a creative type and I'm sure you will enjoy meeting him and Pat working on the interior elements which he's very good at.
Pat will most definitely need to actually see some of these Majestic trailers in person. If she's never seen one she will probably do the "Oh my gosh thing." Many do the first time based on what I've seen in person. The better her reaction the quicker you need to grab you wallet. Just be forewarned.
As to the CCC - that's one of the things NH does best. They guarantee 3,000 CCC on delivery. That is after your options are installed. But always important to review all that during the design and the signing of the drawings process. You do actually approve the custom drawings for your trailer if its a Majestic custom.
As to the Rallies mentioned, Howard & Linda do a very good full-timers rally with loads of information. But they have to cover a lot of material so a lot of the very technical material like we have been discussing has to be simplified. All three of us, Ed/Lynn/Neil/Connie, Linda and I have been to their Rallies. Linda and I have been to like 5 or so and enjoyed meeting the people. I do recommend the RV-Dreams Rally but you will be drinking out of a fire hose with information. A lot of "life style" information. IMO you will get more from the rally after seeing more rigs in person and talking with RVers with experience in the type of rig and travel you envision. Linda and I feel you get more from the presentations after you have some frame of reference. Or go more than once. That's our view and after doing some presentations at rallies I agree with her point. FWIW and hope that helps.
Bill
Gerry,
If you are still considering DRV's, I would advise also getting in touch with Alicia at Rolling Retreats in Elk City, Oklahoma. Within the DRV community at the forums dedicated to DRV owners, they have an excellent reputation for both customer service and quality of work and information. I know of at least one or two people that went from Washington state and New York that dealt with them and were glad they did.
We met Alicia and Slade way back in 2008 or 2009 while researching for our DRV. At the time, they were buying used DRV's at auction and hauling them back to Oklahoma and refurbishing and cleaning them. In time, they became dealers for new DRV's and still have DRV's as their only brand. For a dealership with no other brand to help their cash flow, they have been able to stay in business and get an excellent reputation.
Incidentally, the last I knew, which was 2014 when we last saw them, Alicia and Slade were THE primary employees of the dealership. They do get a little help from others, but they don't need much.
Terry
Thanks Terry,
I've had a couple of other people tell me the same thing, including a fairly recent purchase there. We were initially working through Mike Mitchell the owner of The Kansas RV Center. The area DRV rep steered us there, as that was the place with the DRV model we were interested in.They had two. Unfortunately I had a delay due to surgery and now both units at the Kansas RV Center are sold. Last I checked, Rolling Retreats did not have that model either. So, now our only option is to do a DRV factory visit at the right time (when that model on the production line). In the meantime we are visiting two other RV manufacturers. With the right timing and luck we might get to see that DRV model this year. I will reach out to Rolling Retreats in the meantime to see what other options they might recommend. Thanks for your help.
Gerry
Even if the tour doesn't have the model you're interested in on the production line you can still gauge the build quality, construction details, and attention (or not) to doing things right…all of that is a lot more important than seeing your actual floor plan under construction, although if you can work it out that's fine too.
Quite a few Airstreams are running around with the original frame and shell, but completely new interiors and running gear. Others are as original as possible. Your money, your choice.
Replacing visual items can improve the appearance, or it can detract from it. Earlier this year we looked at an Airstream that had been "updated." The original woodwork had been (poorly) painted white. The seller raved about the updated look. All I saw was the work to remove all that paint and refinish the wood. In his view he had improved the trailer. In my view he had damaged it.
Before we bought our Foretravel, I called one of the custom 5th wheel companies to see what it would cost to have a new 5'er with no slides made. While they didn't outright refuse to make such a coach, all they had to say was negative. The price was no less, even though it would obviously be cheaper to make a coach without slides. Why? in their minds I would be "ruining" their product. We bought our Foretravel (no slides) and spent the additional money making it the way we want it.
I would be curious to hear back from you after doing the factory tours. We have been fulltime for almost 5 years in a motorhome and have not regretted it one bit but have always said when we slow down and don't move almost every week we would move over to a 5th wheel.
We to plan to tour the DRV and New Horizons factories when we pass through those areas in a few months soo that if the time comes that we change within the next couple years we will at least have a better idea of what's what.
Another idea is to join forums for the particular brands, you can learn a lot that way. I tried to join the DRV Owners site on Facebook but have been on hold for 2 weeks LOL, maybe they don't want outsiders looking in but listening to owners is huge. W may just stay at the same campground that a rally is planned in Michigan this fall in hope of meeting and talking to owners.
Anyway good luck and check back in with your thoughts after the tours.
-- Edited by Hdrider on Sunday 25th of June 2017 09:20:19 AM
Factory tours are a great idea. Ask lots of questions. Try to take pictures, video!!! We are also looking at New Horizon and DRV for full-timing next year. We are doing a New Horizon factory tour next week and then see when we can fit in a DRV visit. When you contact New Horizons, ask for Cole Brokenicky.
A second great option is to attend the NHOG (New Horizons Owners Group) and Suite Owners groups annual or periodic rallies. The next NHOG rally is Sept 21-25 in Spearfish SD. The DRV International Rally is in Elkhart, ID on Aug 21-25th (factory tour at the same time??). There you will see lots of different real lived-in examples and be actually able to talk with the real owners about their experiences. They do encourage wantabees or even people with no RV/MHs to attend.
The DRV and New Horizons forums are there, but I have found that they are not very active. At one stage I checked on the DRV forum and there had been no postings for months. Checked now, are there are a few from today. I think you are better off asking on this forum or Escapees and asking specific DRV and New Horizon questions. There are a number of great regular users on this forum that have lots of New Horizon and DRV knowledge that they are willing to share. Just ask!!
Dave and Diane,
If the DRV owners are like me, Facebook (or Farcebook, as I call it) is not a viable option. I suggest registering on the (SOITC) Suites Owner's International Travel Club's forums and asking questions. There is also a section for DRV owners over at 5th Wheel Forums and at Heartland's (or Thor's) forum sites.
When we were first researching RV's, including both fifth wheels and motor homes, we signed up with a number of forums, even though we didn't own any of those. We still got good answers to our questions.
Terry
Sharon,
It is a beautiful setup. Saw it a couple of years ago when Richard did the video with Gregg. We have not finalized our decision yet. It will be later this year before we do so and then start full-time in the Spring. We are really looking for a toy hauler. We did look at a DRV JX450, but will probably go with New Horizon or SpaceCraft.
Wish you and Richard all the best and welcome to beautiful Colorado. Don't tell anyone else about it, as we have gotten a lot of new people in the last few years. We just live north of Denver.
Gerry
Look at OPEN RANGE......LOVE MINE...
Just purchased from the RV Factory. We have the Ambition 35 RS. (the Luxe was out of our price range) Our carrying capacity is just under 3500 lbs. Not sure if they are still on your list but they were wonderful to work with and we spoke to owners who were having work done on their rigs while we were there to pick up our new rig. They all loved their Luxes. One remarked that on his travels from Wisconsin to Florida each year they have forgotten things on the kitchen counters and because of their independent suspensions there was no movement. One spoke of his daughters sleeping on the bed while traveling and they felt little swaying or movement while they were riding in the camper. We have lived in ours for nearly two months now. We had an Excel Limited that we lived in for the last 9 years. We loved the layout. We hope the Ambition will be as comfortable to live in. I do think I have more storage. Good luck in your search.
2 4 d hwy - good choice on the Ambition! We went to the factory last year when they were merging Augusta and the RV Factory. Really like the Ambition and especially the 35 RS which as I recall is 37'. I'm in the process of looking at fifth wheels in the next lower price point as Augusta's pricing has been creeping up the last couple years - rightfully I would add. So spending a lot of time looking at the Redwood (340RL - 3401RL) and Landmark (Oshkosh) as both are floor plans we are interested in. We considered the Vilano and have been watching that trailer from day one but it remains a lower scoring selection for us.
Still planning to make a run at Augusta on the price thing once we get closer to buying. Although I suspect they have no reason to come done much on the MSRP below what they publish. Another consideration for us is weight and do we want to stay closer to 16,500 with maybe a deck out Montana, Bighorn-Big Country or Cedar Creek Hathaway.
What other trailers did you seriously consider before the Ambition? We will most likely make our decision once the 2019 models come out. And then even decide on used vs. new. Ain't no used Ambitions out there!
-- Edited by mds1 on Friday 8th of September 2017 05:20:41 PM
We are considering purchasing an Arctic Fox 32-5M or 35-5Z. Four season design is very appealing. Unfortunately, we live on the east coast where Arctic Fox dealers are almost non-existent. To see these models in person we will need to find a dealer with a decent inventory or find an upcoming RV show that includes the Arctic Fox fifth wheels. Northwood Mfg wasn't at the Hershey RV Show in Sept. What dealer did you use for your purchase?
Some friends were in Washington State and did some walk-throughs of various RV's, posting video on YouTube. Several of us wanted them to look at the Arctic Fox because there are no dealerships near us.
Here is a link to the video if interested
-- Edited by mds1 on Sunday 8th of October 2017 06:57:52 PM
I have a friend living in nearby Milton. I am familiar with the area. I checked out the Kelly RV website. Thank you.