Having purchased everything from cars to airplanes, we have learned that the dealers "final price" is not final. Once you take back your deposit and walk away then the salespeople "go back to their supervisors", again. Now, we are dealing. As Nancy Reagan said, "just say no". If they believe you are a serious buyer and willing to take your business elsewhere they are more likely to reconsider that final price.
Problem is, too many people who buy things are either timid or "stuck" on a particular product. Make your offer, stick to it and be willing to walk. Every seller knows that it is better to sell something at a lower price than to sell nothing at a higher price.
Sadly, dealers don't deal on service which labor is way overpriced. Something is wrong when a 40-hour trained mechanic charges more than an aircraft technician who spent three or four years in certification training. I tell them that, but it doesn't help. These inflated service prices help them make up for their compromises in sales.
So, research, research and research. Ask questions. And remember Nancy Reagan...
RonC said
07:27 PM Apr 12, 2017
In defense of technicians ... they are a bit like doctors, except their "patients" can't tell them where it hurts. For this reason, a technician's job may be harder than that of doctors (I don't want to argue that point, just using it to illustrate a point), but the real reason labor rates are so high is that there is a huge shortage of technicians of all kinds. We have created a culture that requires a college degree to define success. Our children are directed away from the trades and into colleges that offer degrees in various disciplines that are not in demand and discourages them from becoming technicians, who are in very high demand. Many schools offer ZERO trades classes. Used to be able to take "shop" and "welding" and "home economics". Those classes have largely been eliminated from our public school system. This is in contrast to Europe ... Germany in particular ... has a robust trades education system. Following middle school an student enters on of two career paths. Either they enter the University path or they enter the Trades path. Both are equally revered, compensated and enjoy comparable social status. Very different than our pecking order in this country. I would remind everyone that every graduation of Law Scool, or Medical School, or Flight School ... each of those had graduates who "just" made it. The diploma doesn't say "graduated last in the class" but you know they are out there, practicing law, medicine and flying airliners. Venting a little here because I used to hire technicians and I had about 1,000 of them in my department. A good one was hard to find but golden in that they satisfied our customers and sold more equipment than any salesman. I have no problem with highly paid technicians! Each of us is entitled to our opinions.
-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 12th of April 2017 07:31:12 PM
Taildragger said
10:28 PM Apr 13, 2017
Please don't misunderstand! I have worked as both technician and engineer for equipment manufacturers. When a multi-thousand-dollar per hour machine line is down the owners/operators had rather see the guy walk through their plant door who can fix it than anyone. And you are right, I sold more machines than anyone.
With Rv and automotive shops I was only saying that rates seem to be inflated, especially in relation to what the technician earns. But beyond that, it is a market question. Most people can't fix anything and are dependent on the guy who can - at any price
Another point in fact: good carpenters are very hard to find. The trades are being taken over by semi-skilled people who are simply willing to work. Virtually no one is training young people for these and other trades. The industries have to do their own training.
This would make for a good discussion around the campfire!
RonC said
03:03 PM Apr 14, 2017
I agree ... with an adult beverage or two. Sounds like we are pretty much in agreement. I do wish that shops would pay their techs a higher percentage of the published labor rate. That is one way to attract more people. $50,000 a year Teaching (fill in the blank) or $100,000 a year fixing Diesel engines? It would make a more compelling argument. Good discussion.
The Bear II said
05:01 PM Apr 14, 2017
Sales training teaches that the customer must say no 5 times
Having purchased everything from cars to airplanes, we have learned that the dealers "final price" is not final. Once you take back your deposit and walk away then the salespeople "go back to their supervisors", again. Now, we are dealing. As Nancy Reagan said, "just say no". If they believe you are a serious buyer and willing to take your business elsewhere they are more likely to reconsider that final price.
Problem is, too many people who buy things are either timid or "stuck" on a particular product. Make your offer, stick to it and be willing to walk. Every seller knows that it is better to sell something at a lower price than to sell nothing at a higher price.
Sadly, dealers don't deal on service which labor is way overpriced. Something is wrong when a 40-hour trained mechanic charges more than an aircraft technician who spent three or four years in certification training. I tell them that, but it doesn't help. These inflated service prices help them make up for their compromises in sales.
So, research, research and research. Ask questions. And remember Nancy Reagan...
In defense of technicians ... they are a bit like doctors, except their "patients" can't tell them where it hurts. For this reason, a technician's job may be harder than that of doctors (I don't want to argue that point, just using it to illustrate a point), but the real reason labor rates are so high is that there is a huge shortage of technicians of all kinds. We have created a culture that requires a college degree to define success. Our children are directed away from the trades and into colleges that offer degrees in various disciplines that are not in demand and discourages them from becoming technicians, who are in very high demand. Many schools offer ZERO trades classes. Used to be able to take "shop" and "welding" and "home economics". Those classes have largely been eliminated from our public school system. This is in contrast to Europe ... Germany in particular ... has a robust trades education system. Following middle school an student enters on of two career paths. Either they enter the University path or they enter the Trades path. Both are equally revered, compensated and enjoy comparable social status. Very different than our pecking order in this country. I would remind everyone that every graduation of Law Scool, or Medical School, or Flight School ... each of those had graduates who "just" made it. The diploma doesn't say "graduated last in the class" but you know they are out there, practicing law, medicine and flying airliners. Venting a little here because I used to hire technicians and I had about 1,000 of them in my department. A good one was hard to find but golden in that they satisfied our customers and sold more equipment than any salesman. I have no problem with highly paid technicians! Each of us is entitled to our opinions.
-- Edited by RonC on Wednesday 12th of April 2017 07:31:12 PM
Please don't misunderstand! I have worked as both technician and engineer for equipment manufacturers. When a multi-thousand-dollar per hour machine line is down the owners/operators had rather see the guy walk through their plant door who can fix it than anyone. And you are right, I sold more machines than anyone.
With Rv and automotive shops I was only saying that rates seem to be inflated, especially in relation to what the technician earns. But beyond that, it is a market question. Most people can't fix anything and are dependent on the guy who can - at any price
Another point in fact: good carpenters are very hard to find. The trades are being taken over by semi-skilled people who are simply willing to work. Virtually no one is training young people for these and other trades. The industries have to do their own training.
This would make for a good discussion around the campfire!