We have ordered a New Horizons with 630 watts of solar power installed with the plan to do some boondocking. It will have the Big Foot Levelers and from our experience with them on our Carriage Cameo, we know they require a fully charged battery to operate. Has anyone had experience with big foot, solar, and boondocking?
Neil and Connie said
01:55 PM Nov 25, 2016
They will work fine. Since you're planning on boondocking and getting a NH…obviously price isn't yet real top consideration. Get AGM batteries I would suggest. We have a 2012 NH 40 foot Majestic. I have 6 AGM batteries, the Magnum inberter and a residential fridge. Our only generator is a Honda 2000 watt portable and we easily boondock for up to almost 2 weeks. The Honda is actually plenty of generator for boondocking purposes…can't run an A/C unit on it obviously but we only boondocking in weather conditions that don't require one.
We have 800 AH (400 usable) of batteries and 800 watts of solar. Tanks we can make it 12 days by actual measure and could probably do 14 with conservation…we are smarter about that than we were back when.
The Bigfoots don't use that many amps DC…and theyre not running very long anyway. Our Frigidaire residentia fridge uses about 120 AH in 24 hours…when boondocking I generally run the genny in the AM for 2-2.5 hours and the charger is down to late in the Absorb portions n of the cycle. Solar fills it from there. With our 800 rated watts we actually have about 500 net available since we don't tilt them. I got about 440 AH into the batteries in a day once from solar but they are most efficient at lower charging rates like Absorb but you never have energy ugh daylight hours to get more than about 250 at the lower rate. It turns out that the Honda…if you are 300 or more AH down…maxes out the Magnum charging rate at max genset load. Once you get to Absorb the rate goes down so that solar can do it easily.
Tilting the panels is more efficient of course but requires getting on the roof. Too hard for most practical purposes…it's easier to just get more panels and accept the non tilted inefficiency.
slallen said
03:43 PM Nov 25, 2016
Thanks so much for your response. We are getting four AGM batteries and we have two 2000 watt Hondas. It sounds like we will be learning by doing :)
Bill and Linda said
12:15 PM Nov 26, 2016
What Neil said. You should be fine. They do not require a "fully charged" battery to operate. However, running the AGM's down below 50% charged is not a good idea regardless. I've run the Big Foots with a 50% discharged battery without issue. Started the 5500 watt Onan generator with a 40% discharged bank. (Had to choice) Based on a lot of years of experience you should be just fine as long as you have a large enough bank and a good battery AH meter.
As Neil commented, battery bank size matters. The solar panels will not be running the Big Foots. So that solar charge size really isn't a good indication until you specify the AH capacity of the battery bank if you follow me.
Your previous issues could be, not saying it was, undersized wire from the batteries to the Big Foot control boxes. Or perhaps you were discharging the batteries lower than the recommended 50% discharge levels. Hard to know without a true amp hour meter which you will hopefully have installed on the new rig. Just a thought,
Lynn and Ed said
05:47 PM Nov 26, 2016
We had the BigFoot system get temperamental once (i.e., I had to push the “Retract All” button several times, for the legs to fully retract) when we were just above 50% discharged on our battery bank. That was the only time we ever had a power/battery charge level issue with the big foot system. If we have an issue in the future, we could run the generator to operate the BigFoot system.
If it is helpful -- if you plan to boondock for extended periods and will have a residential refrigerator (and your budget allows), you may want to consider more solar panels. We found that our 800 watts of solar cannot keep up with our electrical usage. That is largely due to the residential refrigerator (and the inverter) always being on, otherwise our electrical usage is fairly minimal when boondocking. During winter boondocking (solar panels not tilted), our batteries deplete by 80-120AmH per day (when the generator is not used).
-- Edited by Lynn and Ed on Saturday 26th of November 2016 06:13:11 PM
Bill and Linda said
08:55 AM Nov 27, 2016
Lynn and Ed wrote:
We had the BigFoot system get temperamental once (i.e., I had to push the “Retract All” button several times, for the legs to fully retract) when we were just above 50% discharged on our battery bank.
-- Edited by Lynn and Ed on Saturday 26th of November 2016 06:13:11 PM
Operational note which may be helpful - Using "Retract All" requires the maximum amp draw possible for the system which also reduces voltage. Using the manual mode and retracting just the rear and then the front, independently, significantly reduces the required amps and keeps the voltage higher which then reduces the amp draw required. Under truly adverse battery charge conditions doing one jack at a time, as possible, is also recommended for best results.
Lynn and Ed said
02:47 PM Nov 27, 2016
Bill and Linda wrote:... Using the manual mode and retracting just the rear and then the front, independently, significantly reduces the required amps and keeps the voltage higher which then reduces the amp draw required. Under truly adverse battery charge conditions doing one jack at a time, as possible, is also recommended for best results.
Good point! Simpler solution than potentially running the generator.
Bill and Linda said
08:08 AM Nov 29, 2016
slallen wrote:
Thanks so much for your response. We are getting four AGM batteries and we have two 2000 watt Hondas. It sounds like we will be learning by doing :)
I make this post with some hesitation but do so because its hard to re-do after the trailer is built - i.e. learning by doing. IF you plan on doing any significant boondocking - more than a night here and there, and you are having 4 - AGM batteries installed - that sounds like 600AH - and you are installing a residential refrigerator - IMO, you will need at least 900AH worth of batteries - i.e. "6". (Note: the number of batteries doesn't directly determine the AH rating but knowing what NH usually uses I suspect my assumptions are correct.) More solar - at least 800+ watts, is also required with a 900AH bank.
This battery "techie talk" is important when thinking about boondocking. People on this forum who have experience with 5th wheels and boondock will mostly advise 900AH with a residential fridge in a trailer like yours. Remember one should not discharge batteries beyond 50% very often or the batteries will have a very short life. So that means, for example, with a 600AH bank one only has 300AH usable. The fridge will take about 40% (or more) of that per day depending. So that leaves only 150 -180AH +/- for all other operations. While one can get by on only 150-180 AH / per day I can tell you from experience its not easy unless you are very miserly with power. NH rigs are a lot of things - miserly on 12 volt power consumption isn't one of them as we know from experience.
Just providing perspective, FWIW
On edit: After visiting with NH at the Tampa show, it seems they are nominally now using four, 6 volt 415 AH batteries which equates to a 830 AH rating or 415 AH "usable" within the 50% discharge, recommend, level. So while that's a bit lower then our personal comfort level with a residential fridge its "probably" fine for most short term boondocking with a 120 volt only fridge. In the past I've nominally seen 900AH.
As noted in many posts on this site, a lot of this "just depends" on ones power usage and lifestyle. We know of some with 1,200 AH worth of batteries and solar and others that operate "OK" with just 300 AH with an RV fridge. Its just important to do the math. Difficult to change after the coach is built. One can't just "add" another battery. Batteries should be replaced as a set to avoid having the new battery's capacity and life span negatively impacted by the older ones.
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Wednesday 25th of January 2017 11:37:45 AM
We have ordered a New Horizons with 630 watts of solar power installed with the plan to do some boondocking. It will have the Big Foot Levelers and from our experience with them on our Carriage Cameo, we know they require a fully charged battery to operate. Has anyone had experience with big foot, solar, and boondocking?
They will work fine. Since you're planning on boondocking and getting a NH…obviously price isn't yet real top consideration. Get AGM batteries I would suggest. We have a 2012 NH 40 foot Majestic. I have 6 AGM batteries, the Magnum inberter and a residential fridge. Our only generator is a Honda 2000 watt portable and we easily boondock for up to almost 2 weeks. The Honda is actually plenty of generator for boondocking purposes…can't run an A/C unit on it obviously but we only boondocking in weather conditions that don't require one.
We have 800 AH (400 usable) of batteries and 800 watts of solar. Tanks we can make it 12 days by actual measure and could probably do 14 with conservation…we are smarter about that than we were back when.
The Bigfoots don't use that many amps DC…and theyre not running very long anyway. Our Frigidaire residentia fridge uses about 120 AH in 24 hours…when boondocking I generally run the genny in the AM for 2-2.5 hours and the charger is down to late in the Absorb portions n of the cycle. Solar fills it from there. With our 800 rated watts we actually have about 500 net available since we don't tilt them. I got about 440 AH into the batteries in a day once from solar but they are most efficient at lower charging rates like Absorb but you never have energy ugh daylight hours to get more than about 250 at the lower rate. It turns out that the Honda…if you are 300 or more AH down…maxes out the Magnum charging rate at max genset load. Once you get to Absorb the rate goes down so that solar can do it easily.
Tilting the panels is more efficient of course but requires getting on the roof. Too hard for most practical purposes…it's easier to just get more panels and accept the non tilted inefficiency.
What Neil said. You should be fine. They do not require a "fully charged" battery to operate. However, running the AGM's down below 50% charged is not a good idea regardless. I've run the Big Foots with a 50% discharged battery without issue. Started the 5500 watt Onan generator with a 40% discharged bank. (Had to choice) Based on a lot of years of experience you should be just fine as long as you have a large enough bank and a good battery AH meter.
As Neil commented, battery bank size matters. The solar panels will not be running the Big Foots. So that solar charge size really isn't a good indication until you specify the AH capacity of the battery bank if you follow me.
Your previous issues could be, not saying it was, undersized wire from the batteries to the Big Foot control boxes. Or perhaps you were discharging the batteries lower than the recommended 50% discharge levels. Hard to know without a true amp hour meter which you will hopefully have installed on the new rig. Just a thought,
We had the BigFoot system get temperamental once (i.e., I had to push the “Retract All” button several times, for the legs to fully retract) when we were just above 50% discharged on our battery bank. That was the only time we ever had a power/battery charge level issue with the big foot system. If we have an issue in the future, we could run the generator to operate the BigFoot system.
If it is helpful -- if you plan to boondock for extended periods and will have a residential refrigerator (and your budget allows), you may want to consider more solar panels. We found that our 800 watts of solar cannot keep up with our electrical usage. That is largely due to the residential refrigerator (and the inverter) always being on, otherwise our electrical usage is fairly minimal when boondocking. During winter boondocking (solar panels not tilted), our batteries deplete by 80-120AmH per day (when the generator is not used).
-- Edited by Lynn and Ed on Saturday 26th of November 2016 06:13:11 PM
Operational note which may be helpful - Using "Retract All" requires the maximum amp draw possible for the system which also reduces voltage. Using the manual mode and retracting just the rear and then the front, independently, significantly reduces the required amps and keeps the voltage higher which then reduces the amp draw required. Under truly adverse battery charge conditions doing one jack at a time, as possible, is also recommended for best results.
Good point! Simpler solution than potentially running the generator.
I make this post with some hesitation but do so because its hard to re-do after the trailer is built - i.e. learning by doing. IF you plan on doing any significant boondocking - more than a night here and there, and you are having 4 - AGM batteries installed - that sounds like 600AH - and you are installing a residential refrigerator - IMO, you will need at least 900AH worth of batteries - i.e. "6". (Note: the number of batteries doesn't directly determine the AH rating but knowing what NH usually uses I suspect my assumptions are correct.) More solar - at least 800+ watts, is also required with a 900AH bank.
This battery "techie talk" is important when thinking about boondocking. People on this forum who have experience with 5th wheels and boondock will mostly advise 900AH with a residential fridge in a trailer like yours. Remember one should not discharge batteries beyond 50% very often or the batteries will have a very short life. So that means, for example, with a 600AH bank one only has 300AH usable. The fridge will take about 40% (or more) of that per day depending. So that leaves only 150 -180AH +/- for all other operations. While one can get by on only 150-180 AH / per day I can tell you from experience its not easy unless you are very miserly with power. NH rigs are a lot of things - miserly on 12 volt power consumption isn't one of them as we know from experience.
Just providing perspective, FWIW
On edit: After visiting with NH at the Tampa show, it seems they are nominally now using four, 6 volt 415 AH batteries which equates to a 830 AH rating or 415 AH "usable" within the 50% discharge, recommend, level. So while that's a bit lower then our personal comfort level with a residential fridge its "probably" fine for most short term boondocking with a 120 volt only fridge. In the past I've nominally seen 900AH.
As noted in many posts on this site, a lot of this "just depends" on ones power usage and lifestyle. We know of some with 1,200 AH worth of batteries and solar and others that operate "OK" with just 300 AH with an RV fridge. Its just important to do the math. Difficult to change after the coach is built. One can't just "add" another battery. Batteries should be replaced as a set to avoid having the new battery's capacity and life span negatively impacted by the older ones.
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Wednesday 25th of January 2017 11:37:45 AM