Help! In October I bought a 2015 ford expedition with a tow package (supposed to tow 9200 lbs). I got my Jayco Jay Feather in May and am having trouble driving the SUV. The weight of the trailer is 6,080 (I had it weighed last week) although specs say it shouldn't weigh more than 5,995 with cargo. Okay, I'm over by 85 lbs but I also hadn't dumped in a week so was carrying water, etc. I do have a WD hitch (don't know the manufacturer) which is really tight and hard to put on. Going down the road, the front end of the SUV seems to wander and it's scary going over 40 mph. It also seems to bounce a lot. I did the calculations from Changingears.com (with the info from the manufacturer - not weighed), and the SUV should pull 6133 lbs, although with a 20% margin, it should only pull 4907 (which is much less than the manufacturer claims). Tire pressures for SUV and camper are good.
One mechanic thinks maybe the WD hitch is too tight, although he also mentioned that some vehicles with airbag shocks have problems towing. Not sure exactly what he meant.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm leaving in a month for a long road trip and, right now, I'm terrified to drive it very far.
Thanks.
Diane
PrairieRV said
07:15 AM Aug 20, 2016
What is the maximum hitch weight for the Ford with the tow package. The front-end behavior makes me think there's too much load on the rear end.
Bill and Linda said
09:14 AM Aug 20, 2016
Here are some basics with a weight distributing hitch for it to work correctly:
The purpose of the hitch is to put "equal" weight" on the rear and FRONT tires. This is critical to safety and the ability to steer the vehicle. It will also impact bounce. (The follow has nothing to do with a 5th wheel for anyone reading along.)
With trailer loaded for travel with whatever will be in it and level front to back - but not hitched to the tow vehicle - measure the distance from the pavement to the top of the inside of the female receiver - i.e. where the tow vehicle hitch ball inserts / goes.
With the tow vehicle load for travel, with fuel and cargo / people - but not connected to the trailer measure the distance from the pavement to the top of the ball hitch.
These two measurements above must be the same. If not the ball height on the tow vehicle must be changed to match the trailer's height. If that requires welding - so be it.
Once these two measurement of "ball / hitch" height match - hitch up.
The correct tension (chain length) on the bars is correct with the trailer is level and the car is level. That means an equal distribution of weight across the tow vehicle's wheels - front and back. (Side note - don't equate any of this to a fifth wheel. Totally different engineering.)
"Sway bars" are also used to prevent the trailer "whipping" when, for example, a large truck passes the rig. But these sway bars have nothing to do with weight distribution or level riding or "bounce."
If the above steps are done correctly this should eliminate independent "front / rear end bounce" and steering stability issues. The rig will tend to "bounce" as a one piece unit. One will always have some bounce as a car / truck does on any road. But the bounce should not be typically significant if all components and the tow vehicle are within specifications.
Do keep in mind, until recently, manufactures were free to determine all towing specifications without an industry standard and the marketing departments are known to override the engineers regardless of the manufacture. They all do it.
As with 5th wheels, many times it is not what the vehicle can tow by specifications it is what the vehicle can carry - and carry with a weigh distributing hitch includes all the weight transferred to the vehicle - not just the "hitch weight" on the ball. So the vehicle's GVWR, usually found on the driver's door, can not be exceeded regardless of the level riding of the rig. You might be exceeding the tow vehicle's total weight capability even with proper hitch adjustments. Can't tell without a lot of numbers and known scale weights of everything.
All of the above is valid for any two vehicles, including a pickup, using a "bumper pull" or "tag" trailer hitch.
Hope this might help a bit.
billsfann said
10:14 AM Aug 20, 2016
Thanks for the information. The GVWR of the SUV is 7500 lbs so I'm wondering why it's towing capability is supposed to be 9200 lbs. I'll try measuring the heights of everything when I move my camper this week. I'm seriously thinking of trading the SUV in for a truck even though I really don't want a truck. However, I also don't want to be afraid to tow the camper long distances.
Bill and Linda said
03:00 PM Aug 22, 2016
billsfann wrote:
Thanks for the information. The GVWR of the SUV is 7500 lbs so I'm wondering why it's towing capability is supposed to be 9200 lbs. I'll try measuring the heights of everything when I move my camper this week. I'm seriously thinking of trading the SUV in for a truck even though I really don't want a truck. However, I also don't want to be afraid to tow the camper long distances.
The "tow rating" is based on a stripped down, unloaded vehicle. Not the real world. This is a "best case" number used by the marketing department. It is not achievable in the real world. The GVWR of the tow vehicle is not "carrying" the total weight of the trailer. Just the pin and transferred weight.
IMO, the reason you are having trouble towing with the SUV is that it is not, really for the trailer in question, the best choice. (Nothing to do with brand.) Just being honest. This is known in the RV world as "not enough truck." If it were me, I'd seriously look for a 2500HD / F-250 grade of truck. Overkill? Maybe. But you won't be sorry if you are really going to load up not only the camper but the truck - and you will do just that. We all do. (Shell toppers on a crew cab work real well in this application.) Do this and you can pretty much forget about weights as long as you don't overload the camper. The topper on the pickup bed will give you a basically dry storage area for a lot of items that won't easily fit in the camper. Chairs, grills, etc.
My opinion.
billsfann said
05:44 PM Aug 22, 2016
I've also come to that opinion. I had my mechanic look at it today and he said that the SUV was really built well and was heavy duty. However, he also suggested getting a truck since I'm having so much trouble. Thanks for giving me your opinion.
Bill and Linda said
06:51 AM Aug 23, 2016
billsfann wrote:
I've also come to that opinion. I had my mechanic look at it today and he said that the SUV was really built well and was heavy duty. However, he also suggested getting a truck since I'm having so much trouble. Thanks for giving me your opinion.
There is one other option to consider if you don't want a "pickup." The Chevrolet Suburban comes in a 2500HD version. (Not a standard 1500 Suburban.) It's the same frame, etc. as a 2500 pickup but in an SUV package. The 2500 Suburban was the "go to" towing vehicle for a long time for "trailers." Drove one, actually several, for years. If you decide that you like it just make sure it has the proper rear end gearing and engine for towing, etc. They are not inexpensive but nothing that can do the job is these days.
Just a thought for your consideration.
On Edit just to add some additional information: The wheelbase - length of the Expedition - its not that long - can also cause control issues. (I'd say the same for at Chevy Tahoe which is very similar. Not the best choice for towing for the same reasons.) These somewhat smaller (relative to a dual cab pickup truck) SUV's are fine for the occasional utility trailer or small boat down to the lake towing. But for more serious towing are simply not the best choice. I have a friend who had an Expedition and RV trailer very similar to yours and he experienced similar issues to yours even after I got the hitch heights correct.
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Tuesday 23rd of August 2016 08:03:43 AM
Help! In October I bought a 2015 ford expedition with a tow package (supposed to tow 9200 lbs). I got my Jayco Jay Feather in May and am having trouble driving the SUV. The weight of the trailer is 6,080 (I had it weighed last week) although specs say it shouldn't weigh more than 5,995 with cargo. Okay, I'm over by 85 lbs but I also hadn't dumped in a week so was carrying water, etc. I do have a WD hitch (don't know the manufacturer) which is really tight and hard to put on. Going down the road, the front end of the SUV seems to wander and it's scary going over 40 mph. It also seems to bounce a lot. I did the calculations from Changingears.com (with the info from the manufacturer - not weighed), and the SUV should pull 6133 lbs, although with a 20% margin, it should only pull 4907 (which is much less than the manufacturer claims). Tire pressures for SUV and camper are good.
One mechanic thinks maybe the WD hitch is too tight, although he also mentioned that some vehicles with airbag shocks have problems towing. Not sure exactly what he meant.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm leaving in a month for a long road trip and, right now, I'm terrified to drive it very far.
Thanks.
Diane
Here are some basics with a weight distributing hitch for it to work correctly:
The purpose of the hitch is to put "equal" weight" on the rear and FRONT tires. This is critical to safety and the ability to steer the vehicle. It will also impact bounce. (The follow has nothing to do with a 5th wheel for anyone reading along.)
With trailer loaded for travel with whatever will be in it and level front to back - but not hitched to the tow vehicle - measure the distance from the pavement to the top of the inside of the female receiver - i.e. where the tow vehicle hitch ball inserts / goes.
With the tow vehicle load for travel, with fuel and cargo / people - but not connected to the trailer measure the distance from the pavement to the top of the ball hitch.
These two measurements above must be the same. If not the ball height on the tow vehicle must be changed to match the trailer's height. If that requires welding - so be it.
Once these two measurement of "ball / hitch" height match - hitch up.
The correct tension (chain length) on the bars is correct with the trailer is level and the car is level. That means an equal distribution of weight across the tow vehicle's wheels - front and back. (Side note - don't equate any of this to a fifth wheel. Totally different engineering.)
"Sway bars" are also used to prevent the trailer "whipping" when, for example, a large truck passes the rig. But these sway bars have nothing to do with weight distribution or level riding or "bounce."
If the above steps are done correctly this should eliminate independent "front / rear end bounce" and steering stability issues. The rig will tend to "bounce" as a one piece unit. One will always have some bounce as a car / truck does on any road. But the bounce should not be typically significant if all components and the tow vehicle are within specifications.
Do keep in mind, until recently, manufactures were free to determine all towing specifications without an industry standard and the marketing departments are known to override the engineers regardless of the manufacture. They all do it.
As with 5th wheels, many times it is not what the vehicle can tow by specifications it is what the vehicle can carry - and carry with a weigh distributing hitch includes all the weight transferred to the vehicle - not just the "hitch weight" on the ball. So the vehicle's GVWR, usually found on the driver's door, can not be exceeded regardless of the level riding of the rig. You might be exceeding the tow vehicle's total weight capability even with proper hitch adjustments. Can't tell without a lot of numbers and known scale weights of everything.
All of the above is valid for any two vehicles, including a pickup, using a "bumper pull" or "tag" trailer hitch.
Hope this might help a bit.
Thanks for the information. The GVWR of the SUV is 7500 lbs so I'm wondering why it's towing capability is supposed to be 9200 lbs. I'll try measuring the heights of everything when I move my camper this week. I'm seriously thinking of trading the SUV in for a truck even though I really don't want a truck. However, I also don't want to be afraid to tow the camper long distances.
The "tow rating" is based on a stripped down, unloaded vehicle. Not the real world. This is a "best case" number used by the marketing department. It is not achievable in the real world. The GVWR of the tow vehicle is not "carrying" the total weight of the trailer. Just the pin and transferred weight.
IMO, the reason you are having trouble towing with the SUV is that it is not, really for the trailer in question, the best choice. (Nothing to do with brand.) Just being honest. This is known in the RV world as "not enough truck." If it were me, I'd seriously look for a 2500HD / F-250 grade of truck. Overkill? Maybe. But you won't be sorry if you are really going to load up not only the camper but the truck - and you will do just that. We all do. (Shell toppers on a crew cab work real well in this application.) Do this and you can pretty much forget about weights as long as you don't overload the camper. The topper on the pickup bed will give you a basically dry storage area for a lot of items that won't easily fit in the camper. Chairs, grills, etc.
My opinion.
I've also come to that opinion. I had my mechanic look at it today and he said that the SUV was really built well and was heavy duty. However, he also suggested getting a truck since I'm having so much trouble. Thanks for giving me your opinion.
There is one other option to consider if you don't want a "pickup." The Chevrolet Suburban comes in a 2500HD version. (Not a standard 1500 Suburban.) It's the same frame, etc. as a 2500 pickup but in an SUV package. The 2500 Suburban was the "go to" towing vehicle for a long time for "trailers." Drove one, actually several, for years. If you decide that you like it just make sure it has the proper rear end gearing and engine for towing, etc. They are not inexpensive but nothing that can do the job is these days.
Just a thought for your consideration.
On Edit just to add some additional information: The wheelbase - length of the Expedition - its not that long - can also cause control issues. (I'd say the same for at Chevy Tahoe which is very similar. Not the best choice for towing for the same reasons.) These somewhat smaller (relative to a dual cab pickup truck) SUV's are fine for the occasional utility trailer or small boat down to the lake towing. But for more serious towing are simply not the best choice. I have a friend who had an Expedition and RV trailer very similar to yours and he experienced similar issues to yours even after I got the hitch heights correct.
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Tuesday 23rd of August 2016 08:03:43 AM