Our wheel bearing broke Friday night as we were traveling I-40 in eastern California. These are bearings that are sealed and require no maintenance, our service shop has said we did nothing wrong and we were very lucky that Dale saw the sparks flying out of the back end of the 5th wheel and was able to get pulled over and stopped quickly. The tire was seriously tilted and had it come off there could have been extensive damage on the entire underside of the trailer.
Damage: broken wheel bearing, axle needs to be replaced, tire and wheel are toast, brake line cut, other damage to brakes and who else knows what they will find.
We were towed to a service shop Friday night (arriving early AM on Saturday) only to find out that nothing could be done until Monday because all the suppliers were closed for the weekend. So now we site, in 90 degree heat, dry camping in a service center wondering what Monday will bring and hoping this is all covered under our extended warranty.
One question that we keep asking ourselves, is there something we should have done with the bearing? We've been told no service is required, service shop said we did nothing wrong, but is there any periodic inspection that should have been done that might have prevented this? It's also making us wonder if there's something we need to have done on the other 3 wheel bearings as we really, really don't want to go through this ordeal again.
-- Edited by NWescapee on Sunday 25th of October 2015 11:33:52 AM
ticat900 said
12:01 PM Oct 25, 2015
you should always check the brakes at every 8-10K or so and make sure the sealed bearings are smooth and tight.All things fail at one time or another
I have heard their life is about 80K?
NWescapee said
12:38 PM Oct 25, 2015
Brakes were just checked in June when we had new tires put on the 5th wheel and I would think that if the shop noticed an issue with the bearings they would have mentioned it at that time. We've towed about 2000 miles since the tires were replaced and brakes checked at that time. Brakes weren't the issue, the brake line was cut as part of the collateral damage caused by the bearing failure.
5th wheel has way less than 80K miles on it, so if that is their life, something else caused the failure.
ticat900 said
12:58 PM Oct 25, 2015
never suggested the brakes were a issue? obviously just a bad bearing from new and it got was missed. it is what it is . damage done
TRAILERKING said
01:50 PM Oct 25, 2015
NWescapee wrote:
....... and I would think that if the shop noticed an issue with the bearings they would have mentioned it at that time.
Not really...............Only if they were actually checking and looking for any issues with bearing condition. I would pull all the hubs and do a check on all the bearings. If you, the owner are unable to do this. Get a reputable and competent shop that knows what they're doing.
Another note: Whoever pulls this apart to check anything.......Have a good look. If they are Chinesium bearings then throw them all in the trash. Get a high quality American Made bearing like SKF, NTN, etc.
ticat900 said
02:21 PM Oct 25, 2015
Lots of SKF bearings are made in china!!
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
05:35 PM Oct 25, 2015
If it's a Dexter NeverLube, They might have both the French made or the Chinese. There were several bad shipments from China in the beginning. NeverLubes will fail. They are rated for 50k, which for most RV's is a lifetime. For us full timers, its several years.
-- Edited by Alie and Jims Carrilite on Sunday 25th of October 2015 05:40:32 PM
Terry and Jo said
09:57 AM Oct 26, 2015
Ruth,
Any bearing will fail, and I know of some other DRV Suites owners that are quite happy with the life of their Never-Lube bearings. That is probably what is in your Mobile Suites. Yours is the same model year and floor plan as ours. The difference is that you have towed yours a lot more than we have ours. I'd say that if you want to be ahead of the game and replace them all, Dexter still makes the Never-Lube bearings.
They show to have 3 different sizes, so a little research would be required to determine what was needed for your axles.
Terry
NWescapee said
01:48 PM Oct 26, 2015
Terry - thanks for the insight. Our service tech called Lippert today and found out they are no longer making our axles with the sealed bearings. After a quick discussion, and serious concerns that if all our bearings are the same age and the manufacturer has moved away from those bearings, we decided to replace both axles, one that will be covered under the extended warranty, one will not, but we decided that for safety, we'd rather not risk another failure.
Unfortunately it will take 2-3 weeks before the new axles arrive.
Bill and Linda said
02:36 PM Oct 26, 2015
NWescapee wrote:
One question that we keep asking ourselves, is there something we should have done with the bearing? We've been told no service is required, service shop said we did nothing wrong, but is there any periodic inspection that should have been done that might have prevented this? It's also making us wonder if there's something we need to have done on the other 3 wheel bearings as we really, really don't want to go through this ordeal again.
-- Edited by NWescapee on Sunday 25th of October 2015 11:33:52 AM
Ruth:
Your failure is not all that uncommon.Nev-R-Lub bearings are well known to have catastrophic failures.When they fail they tent to wipe out everything including the spindle. Ask me how I know this – twice.Fortunately in both our cases having “H” tires saved any damage to the trailer. (Another reason for “H” tires.)
You can “inspect” Nev-R-Lub’s all you want, but the odds of catching a problem prior to failure is rather small and even if they are almost new they can fail. (Ask me how I know this – yet again.)Yes, I’ve seen problems caught on our and other's trailers in person. But it was as much luck as anything else according to the tecks doing the work.
The only “fix,” IMO, is to replace them with bearings that can be serviced and inspected. That is not all that easy as more components have to be replaced than just the bearings. Split bearings are more trouble for those who travel very little as they require service at least once a year. For those who basically are static - Nev-R-Lub bearings make the most sense, IMO. That is probably the reason many have Nev-R-Lubs. It also make sense for those that do travel but rather infrequently.But if you travel . . .
In our case, as we travel, our previous rig was changed from Nev-R-Lub to standard split bearings that can be checked, easily replaced and lubricated; and tend not to have a catastrophic failure mode.Not EZ-Lub bearings – standard split bearings. We will never have another trailer with Nev-R-Lubs and when we built the trailer in the sig it was specified with Timken spit bearings available at local auto supply stores. They can be inspected and serviced fairly easily and they work with standard size hubs which you can find even in Alaska and Canada.(Again, ask me how I know this.)
This has nothing to do with DRV as such except DRV’s are heavy on the axles – as are other trailers with two axles – and that has shown to be more of an issue with Nev-R-Lubs than anything else regardless of the axle's weight ratings.Just passing along a lot of personal experience and research now that you asked.
BTW, it takes a good Mandrel Press to change the bearings on your hubs if they are Nev-R-Lub.Not something the average person can do and that includes a lot of brake shops.Sometimes it is about the same cost to replace the hubs with new Nev-R-Lub bearings already installed. Been there, had to do that as well. It just depends. Almost anyone can change out a split bearing if they are so inclined or a standard RV shop, etc.
Very sorry for your trouble.PM me as you care for more info.
Bill
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
07:08 PM Oct 26, 2015
The following is hearsay, but from an engineering standpoint might hold a grain of truth-
While I was in the Dexter shop in South Texas, I had the opportunity to talk with both a Dexter rep and the shop owner about the Nev-R-Lubes. One item that the rep mentioned was that the Nev-R-Lubes do NOT like side stress. This equates to the stress placed on the bearing when you jackknife a trailer into a back in site.... which we all do on occasion. With the bearing pressed together and unserviceable, it was stated that you can check the play in the wheel and tire and it will be within tolerance. But on leaving the campsite and making a hard 90* turn, the bearing housing can separate and the bearing will fail shortly down the road. In our case, seems like every site we take is a hard turn to get into.
Our next RV will have serviceable bearings like Bill mentioned above.
TDCDintheRV said
08:52 PM Oct 26, 2015
Ruth and dale
Sorry about your problems! In November 2011 the Al-Ko axles on our 2004 5th wheel lost their camber (bad steel tubes in 2003/2004) ruined all 4 tires and we needed new axles. We were in Jacksonville FL, we stopped at North Florida spring and brake on a Monday afternoon, they checked and measured the axles and ordered new axles from dexter. The new axles made by dexter, shipped and delivered by Thursday and installed on Friday that same week! Two / three weeks seems like a long time to get parts? There is dexter distributer in las vagas but the nearest dexter plant is in Oklahoma. Check to see where they are getting the axles from, maybe there are other options! Sorry to hear there was damage from the towing. Wishing you best of luck with your repairs. Hope to see you in AZ this winter.
Tom and Cheryl
TRAILERKING said
08:54 PM Oct 26, 2015
Alie and Jims Carrilite wrote:
One item that the rep mentioned was that the Nev-R-Lubes do NOT like side stress.
Exactly correct................They were really designed for a single axle boat trailer.
Bill and Linda said
08:26 AM Oct 27, 2015
“One item that the rep mentioned was that the Nev-R-Lubes do NOT like side stress.”
There is a bit more to this – but this is correct.While sealed bearings are used in cars and trucks all the time mostly without any issues due to the very nature of the single axle arrangement; on a dual or tri-axle trailer there is tremendous side stress when the trailer is turned or even just rolling down the road. Backing a trailer into a spot that involves a really tight turn (sometimes called “square jacking”) puts even more stress on the bearings.We all have to do this from time to time.
But as was mentioned, you can check the bearings by looking for grease weeping and also for end or axial play and they will be just fine.Then a few days or miles latter looking in the rear view mirror – “Linda, this isn’t good” - and you have a wheel sitting at 30 degrees off center with a lot of smoke dragging down the road.Again, love those “H” tires. They never lost air, just a lot of rubber.
I’ve seen Nev-R-Lubes fail at 59,589 miles, 11,956 miles and at 3,169 miles.Got lucky and caught the last one just before it wiped out the axle, etc. That was when we changed them to split bearings at Linda’s insistence.(She is special.)
May I add, the choice of bearings, IMO, is based on type of use.If you are static and don’t move for months at a time Nev-R-Lubes maybe the best choice as split bearings should be serviced at least once a year or about 12,000 miles whichever comes first.That can be a lot of trouble for some.If you travel often perhaps another choice is better.
BTW, some OEMs are now using EZ-Lube bearings due to issues with Nev-R-Lubes. EZ-Lub allow greasing without disassembly. But based on speaking with experts in the suspension business, not trailer OEM’s, I don’t recommend them.If you over grease the bearings you will blow out the rear seals and then comes a failure.It is a fine line between enough grease and too much and just greasing doesn’t allow for true inspection of the bearing.
NWescapee said
08:51 AM Oct 27, 2015
Bill - thanks for the thorough explanation. Our axles that are now on order are from Lippert and they don't have spares in inventory. The service rep our tech spoke to explained that for RVs, especially those that move frequently, the sealed bearings had not proven to be a reliable bearing.
So now we know we'll have periodic maintenance on the new bearings, but peace of mind goes a long way. We didn't have to replace both axles, as one is still intact, but from a safety perspective we felt it was the wisest thing to do.
Now if someone has any pull with Lippert to get this process going faster, that would be sweet!!
TRAILERKING said
09:22 AM Oct 27, 2015
I think people confuse the styles that are out there.
This one, The Bearing Buddy, is a spring loaded plunger. It replaces the regular dust cap. It will continue to push grease through the hub until it eventually pushes grease out of the seal. These were more intended for boat trailers.
E-Z Lube is a grease passage ported through the length of the stub. Injecting grease to the back of the inner bearing until it pushes all the way through the outer bearing.
The one thing to observe is the over all width of the bearing surface. The wider the bearings are apart from each other they can handle more side load. If you look at the Never Lube bearing assembly the over all width is very narrow. They actually indicate on their website about the maximum allowable wheel offset these bearings can handle.
BiggarView said
09:35 AM Oct 27, 2015
Well, now I am way smarter about bearings than I ever thought I would be. I guess bearing maintenance will be on my future "radar" more so than it was a couple of days ago.
TRAILERKING said
09:58 AM Oct 27, 2015
biggaRView wrote:
Well, now I am way smarter about bearings than I ever thought I would be. I guess bearing maintenance will be on my future "radar" more so than it was a couple of days ago.
Yeah well I own and operate a machine shop up here. When it comes to the mechanics of things.......That's my forte'.
Bill and Linda said
02:43 PM Oct 27, 2015
NWescapee wrote:
Bill - thanks for the thorough explanation. Our axles that are now on order are from Lippert and they don't have spares in inventory. The service rep our tech spoke to explained that for RVs, especially those that move frequently, the sealed bearings had not proven to be a reliable bearing.
So now we know we'll have periodic maintenance on the new bearings, but peace of mind goes a long way. We didn't have to replace both axles, as one is still intact, but from a safety perspective we felt it was the wisest thing to do.
Now if someone has any pull with Lippert to get this process going faster, that would be sweet!!
I’ll have to compliment MOR/ryde when I had a Dexter supplied Nev-R-Lube fail in the middle of nowhere New Mexico on I-40.On a Friday afternoon, at 4PM Eastern Time, I called MOR/ryde saying: “Help!”Monday morning at 10:30AM the axle, hub with bearing installed, beam arm, etc. all showed up at an axle shop in Albuquerque, New Mexico.By mid-afternoon we were on the road.A lot of things had to come together to make that happen but the service manager at MOR/ryde somehow got all that together in time to make the last shipment out for the day – on a Friday. Can't say enough about their service.
Truly sorry for your situation. I've been there.
lmcallis said
03:25 PM Oct 27, 2015
Our 2008 5th wheel has a frame and axles from Lippert. The bearings are never lube and are pressed into the brake drum. No way to replace just the bearing, got to get a whole new brake drum from Lippert. I've had 3 bearings fail over the last 8 years. The first fail occurred at about 5K miles during a brake service where the seal ring just popped off as the brake drum was being put back on. The second failed as we were going down the road with about 10K miles on the 5th wheel. We trade off driving every two hours and I always check the temps on the brake drum and axle hub with one of those pistol grip infra-red temp probes (20 bucks or so on amazon). The temp on the axel hub was elevated (300 degrees vs 90 - 100 degrees normal) so I knew a problem was developing. Dropped our speed down to 45 miles an hour and made the remaining 60 miles to the campground. When the mobile mechanic jacked up the tire, there was a good 1/2 of wiggle on the axel. The third bearing never failed but there was a bit more wiggle at 40K miles when you wiggled the tire on the axel. I got a new brake drum/bearing installed and now travel with this old drum/bearing and a new drum/bearing so I've got two spares incase I find a problem in the future.
So, to minimize the surprise of a failed bearing going down the road I continue to check temps on the axel hub every two hours and everytime I adjust the brakes when the tire is off the ground I'll check the amount of wiggle on the axel. the wiggle spec is about 1/8 inch or so as you push on one side of the tire and pull on the opposite side. I've done another 15K miles in the last 2 years and no problems so knock on wood.
good luck out there,
Lance
dianneandsteve said
08:23 PM Oct 27, 2015
Sorry to hear about your axles issues Ruth and Dale. If you're having to replace both axles anyway, any chance of upgrading to the MOR/ryde IS if there's a western dealer? Good luck.
NWescapee said
08:25 AM Oct 28, 2015
Hi Steve,
No chance of upgrading to Mor Ryde right now, trailer is not really movable, I understand there is a Western location near LA that can do the install but we have no option to get the trailer there at this time with only 3 wheels on the 5th wheel.
It's certainly something we're considering if we have any other issues.
Ruth
Bill and Linda said
11:13 AM Oct 28, 2015
lmcallis wrote:
. . . to minimize the surprise of a failed bearing going down the road I continue to check temps on the axel hub every two hours . . .
Lance
Checking the temps on the hubs is a really good idea.I do this as well.I leave the pretty wheel inserts out so I can check right on the hubs.Get a feel for what your nominal temps run for a reference and compare front to back temps.If they are the same your probably good.You will notice a higher temp on the side that is in the sun.(Well duh!)So the comparison of front to back is, IMO, the best comparison.
Do the same with the side wall temps of your tires especially if you don’t have tire pressure monitors.Low pressure will usually equal higher side wall temps. I do this every time we stop including the truck.
Bill
ticat900 said
01:56 PM Oct 28, 2015
frankly to each their own If I worried enough that I had to stop and check my hub temperatures every two hours and tire temps
I would find a better RV or not RV at all
Not saying one should not never look! but every 2 hours? that's ridiculous
R12 said
05:27 AM Oct 29, 2015
NWescapee wrote:
Hi Steve,
No chance of upgrading to Mor Ryde right now, trailer is not really movable, I understand there is a Western location near LA that can do the install but we have no option to get the trailer there at this time with only 3 wheels on the 5th wheel.
It's certainly something we're considering if we have any other issues.
Ruth
Mor/Ryde IS can be installed by any decent truck or trailer repair garage. It's a fairly easy install and Mor/ryde provides installation instructions with detailed info. The only concern that Gary at Mor/ryde had is that the alignment is done correctly. Many shops use the laser alignment system the Mor/ryde uses but it can be done as well without the laser. If you want to go with the IS system there should be no reason not to have it done where you are now.
-- Edited by R12 on Thursday 29th of October 2015 05:31:04 AM
Bill and Linda said
06:18 AM Oct 29, 2015
ticat900 wrote:
frankly to each their own If I worried enough that I had to stop and check my hub temperatures every two hours and tire temps I would find a better RV or not RV at all Not saying one should not never look! but every 2 hours? that's ridiculous
The brand or cost of the RV has nothing to do with this discussion.We’re discussing bearings.No, checking every two hours is not necessary, IMO.But when we stop, while one of us is using the “facilities” I check the bearings.Good, professional, drivers do a walk around and check the equipment at every stop.It’s just a prudent procedure.That’s why professionals are taught to do it. Just saying . . .
A lot of these discussions are to allow newer RVers to gain perspective and evaluate opinions. Even some of us "old hats" learn something now and then and I hope this thread has educated somewhat to help those who might not have known about these options.
jrzygrl64 said
09:31 AM Oct 29, 2015
We have the EZ Lub on our 2014 Heartland Landmark and Bill is in the process (2 down - 2 to go) of cleaning, inspecting and hand packing our wheel bearings, because he had to remove the hub to inspect, clean and lubricate the brakes. He believes it was needed and should be done once per year. He spoke to a 30 year Dexter employee about maintaining the bearings and he said if it was HIS rig he would do it by hand and not rely on the grease fittings (zerks). He also said you have to take it apart anyway for the brake servicing so you might as well hand pack the bearings at the same time.
If you want to see pics, look here: bkamericanodyssey.com It was one of the more recent posts.
Terry and Jo said
11:15 AM Oct 29, 2015
ticat900 wrote:
frankly to each their own If I worried enough that I had to stop and check my hub temperatures every two hours and tire temps I would find a better RV or not RV at all Not saying one should not never look! but every 2 hours? that's ridiculous
As you said, "to each his own." I do a walk-around every time we stop as well.
I think it is ridiculous for someone to criticize others for their method of doing things.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 30th of October 2015 07:20:34 AM
BiggarView said
11:27 AM Oct 29, 2015
Bill and Linda wrote:
ticat900 wrote:
frankly to each their own If I worried enough that I had to stop and check my hub temperatures every two hours and tire temps I would find a better RV or not RV at all Not saying one should not never look! but every 2 hours? that's ridiculous
The brand or cost of the RV has nothing to do with this discussion.We’re discussing bearings.No, checking every two hours is not necessary, IMO.But when we stop, while one of us is using the “facilities” I check the bearings.Good, professional, drivers do a walk around and check the equipment at every stop.It’s just a prudent procedure.That’s why professionals are taught to do it. Just saying . . .
A lot of these discussions are to allow newer RVers to gain perspective and evaluate opinions. Even some of us "old hats" learn something now and then and I hope this thread has educated somewhat to help those who might not have known about these options.
Bill, having observed you that day we unknowingly crossed paths with you in Southern Illinois last year (before we got to know many on here - including you) Your entire "inspection drill" took only a few minutes and you seemed very thorough to this untrained eye. Seems some of us think that is too much of a hassle or not worth one's time. Cheap insurance, I say. Sure wish I had been bolder back then and come on over and said hello. This is one newb that is grateful for at least one "old hat" lending perspective and helping us evaluate options.
lmcallis said
10:29 PM Oct 29, 2015
Bill, you are quite right on the sunny side vs shady side temperature differences so comparing temps between the front tire and rear tire or bearing is a great way to do it. And just to stay in tip top shape and keep the leprechauns on my side I always do a short jig in front of the truck at each 2 hour stop. Get a few stares as well. I'm looking for better leprechauns that will tolerate one jig per day instead of every two hours, but haven't found any yet. Drop me a line if you know of any.
Keep dancing out there and going down the road,
Lance
MarkS said
06:20 AM Oct 30, 2015
It ain't the BMW and you ain't going to the grocery store. Every time you stop you should give your rig the once over twice. I give mine a visual and shoot my wheels and bearings for temp. You should be stopping at east every two hours to stretch and shake the dew off the Lilly. It's a good practice to keep an eye on your equipment. Failures happen and cause damage. That quick visual could save you a big headache.
ticat900 said
09:48 AM Oct 30, 2015
Like I said to each their own.IF(I don't) I owned a trailer and had to stop every 2 hours for wheel and tire check for fear of failures I would not use that product I would find something that's tried and proven(lots out there) Now I realize that the 2 hour stop people are totally exaggerating the potential situation
but all the same. When I travel in my MH I just like to go from A to B and not have the constant nag/want(in my head) to be stopping every 2 hours out of fear of a RV failure of some sort. Heres the deal Most failures are preventable by having things checked and serviced correctly before leaving your home stop or if your full timing a scheduled (EG)5000 mile inspection. Its just my opinion stopping every 2 hours and doing a temp gun test on ever little hot spot on your trailer is ridiculous in my opinion. As said to each their own.
Bill and Linda said
10:24 AM Oct 30, 2015
ticat900 wrote:
When I travel in my MH I just like to go from A to B and not have the constant nag/want(in my head) to be stopping every 2 hours out of fear of a RV failure of some sort. Heres the deal Most failures are preventable by having things checked and serviced correctly before leaving your home stop or if your full timing a scheduled (EG)5000 mile inspection. Its just my opinion stopping every 2 hours and doing a temp gun test on ever little hot spot on your trailer is ridiculous in my opinion. As said to each their own.
Paul
Ah, you just changed the total criteria – a Motorhome. Which is fine but a different conversation, IMO.
Trailers are the problem with bearings.Like cars, pickups and most trucks, by the very nature of the motorhome it is not particularly hard on bearings.Especially in a single axle configuration due to no side stress for one reason.
The only pickup truck bearing I’ve ever seen fail was one being towed behind a motorhome.Why – side stress on the front bearings due to be “pulled” into turns.Hence side stress.
That’s a whole different discussion – motorhomes.This discussion, began by Ruth the OP, was about trailer bearings.And those do tend to be problematic. Part of "A choice."
Bill
ticat900 said
10:36 AM Oct 30, 2015
I never changed any criteria? I said **IF** I owned a travel trailer and also IF my MH caused the same worry I would find a unit that negated that worry like oil filled bearings in fact iam surprized no one here seems to mention or use them
-- Edited by ticat900 on Friday 30th of October 2015 10:40:08 AM
R12 said
03:18 PM Oct 30, 2015
ticat900 wrote:
I never changed any criteria? I said **IF** I owned a travel trailer and also IF my MH caused the same worry I would find a unit that negated that worry like oil filled bearings in fact iam surprized no one here seems to mention or use them
-- Edited by ticat900 on Friday 30th of October 2015 10:40:08 AM
DRV used oil filled bearings up until a year or so ago. There are many of us owners of Mobile and Elite Suites that had oil filled bearings and have eliminated them and went to greased bearings. Although I feel the oil filled bearings are superior to greased bearings there are just too many problems of leakage with them. I replaced quite a few of the O-rings on the outer seal and it is easy enough to spot a leak but the rear seals are not as easy to check and when they do leak it can be a major problem in a short time.
ticat900 said
04:16 PM Oct 30, 2015
R12 wrote:
ticat900 wrote:
I never changed any criteria? I said **IF** I owned a travel trailer and also IF my MH caused the same worry I would find a unit that negated that worry like oil filled bearings in fact iam surprized no one here seems to mention or use them
-- Edited by ticat900 on Friday 30th of October 2015 10:40:08 AM
DRV used oil filled bearings up until a year or so ago. There are many of us owners of Mobile and Elite Suites that had oil filled bearings and have eliminated them and went to greased bearings. Although I feel the oil filled bearings are superior to greased bearings there are just too many problems of leakage with them. I replaced quite a few of the O-rings on the outer seal and it is easy enough to spot a leak but the rear seals are not as easy to check and when they do leak it can be a major problem in a short time.
interesting as I have not seen that nor heard of it. Iam on my third DP and have never seen a problem with any of my hubs front or rear .We have sold a few large 5ers with oil bath bearings and have not had a single complaint anyhow that's your real life experience as u say. I don't think there a big problem at all
Jack Mayer said
10:00 AM Oct 31, 2015
I'm not sure there is a BIG problem with oil bath bearings but the ones I had leaked as described by R12. I also replaced them with conventional bearings. I never could stop the leaks "reliably".
R12 said
02:55 AM Nov 1, 2015
ticat900 wrote:
R12 wrote:
ticat900 wrote:
I never changed any criteria? I said **IF** I owned a travel trailer and also IF my MH caused the same worry I would find a unit that negated that worry like oil filled bearings in fact iam surprized no one here seems to mention or use them
-- Edited by ticat900 on Friday 30th of October 2015 10:40:08 AM
DRV used oil filled bearings up until a year or so ago. There are many of us owners of Mobile and Elite Suites that had oil filled bearings and have eliminated them and went to greased bearings. Although I feel the oil filled bearings are superior to greased bearings there are just too many problems of leakage with them. I replaced quite a few of the O-rings on the outer seal and it is easy enough to spot a leak but the rear seals are not as easy to check and when they do leak it can be a major problem in a short time.
interesting as I have not seen that nor heard of it. Iam on my third DP and have never seen a problem with any of my hubs front or rear .We have sold a few large 5ers with oil bath bearings and have not had a single complaint anyhow that's your real life experience as u say. I don't think there a big problem at all
It's a big enough problem for DRV. They have stopped offering oil bath hubs and are now using conventional greased hubs.
ticat900 said
12:33 PM Nov 1, 2015
That could be but theres more than one could imagine out there using oil bath bearings and very very successful
I don't know why a certain RV manufacturer would go away from them but there(oil bath bearings) definatly a tried and proven product/idea
cherylbrv said
02:44 PM Nov 1, 2015
I have a 2008 DRV and you have me pretty scared because this thread is way above my comprehension level and I feel this is something we need to figure out.
ticat900 said
02:54 PM Nov 1, 2015
cherylbrv wrote:
I have a 2008 DRV and you have me pretty scared because this thread is way above my comprehension level and I feel this is something we need to figure out.
don't be silly and read too deeply here.There is nothing at all bad about your oil bath bearings if that's what you have and if their the greaseable ones same thing applies
too much fear mongering here for sure. relax.Have your systems inspected every 6000 miles or so. keep a eye on hub temps etc and you will be just fine
Cummins12V98 said
06:47 PM Nov 1, 2015
I am willing to bet the op has the Kodiak system with the sealed bearings like I did on my 07.5 MS. I talked to Kevin at Kodiak about how to tell if one of the sealed bearings were getting bad. He said "every so often look at the back side of the rotor and if the bearing is starting to go bad there will be grease coming from the seal" he also said "a small amount of grease around the seal is normal".
Terry and Jo said
08:52 PM Nov 1, 2015
ticat900 wrote:
cherylbrv wrote:
I have a 2008 DRV and you have me pretty scared because this thread is way above my comprehension level and I feel this is something we need to figure out.
don't be silly and read too deeply here.There is nothing at all bad about your oil bath bearings if that's what you have and if their the greaseable ones same thing applies
too much fear mongering here for sure. relax.Have your systems inspected every 6000 miles or so. keep a eye on hub temps etc and you will be just fine
With all due respect, while the oil bath hubs are a proven thing in the commercial (think 18-wheelers) realm and many of the motor homes, those for the smaller axles and hubs do have problems. You've been told already by two different people that the oil bath hubs on the DRV Suites models have had problems, and now you've been told the same by a third, and all three of us have DRV's so we know of which we speak. So, instead of trying to diminish the information, advice, practices, and beliefs of others, it might be of benefit to do more research instead of saying there are no problems. A lot of times, the actual application of even a proven type of product can have problems.
Terry
ticat900 said
09:06 PM Nov 1, 2015
whatever you want to believe matters not to me. I believe their fine
I think its a great deal and if I had a a trailer I would have them
TRAILERKING said
09:11 PM Nov 1, 2015
The smaller hubs, spindles, and bearing assemblies have too much radial movement is why the oil bath system does not work the best. Grease packed bearings are the best for the smaller stuff. The larger spindles and bearings are far more rigid and robust and stand up good in an oil bath situation. However even the large semi-trailer type spindles can show a lot of wear from the inner bearing thrusting against the side of the seal surface from extensive side loading while sharp turning and heavy loads.
Our wheel bearing broke Friday night as we were traveling I-40 in eastern California. These are bearings that are sealed and require no maintenance, our service shop has said we did nothing wrong and we were very lucky that Dale saw the sparks flying out of the back end of the 5th wheel and was able to get pulled over and stopped quickly. The tire was seriously tilted and had it come off there could have been extensive damage on the entire underside of the trailer.
Damage: broken wheel bearing, axle needs to be replaced, tire and wheel are toast, brake line cut, other damage to brakes and who else knows what they will find.
We were towed to a service shop Friday night (arriving early AM on Saturday) only to find out that nothing could be done until Monday because all the suppliers were closed for the weekend. So now we site, in 90 degree heat, dry camping in a service center wondering what Monday will bring and hoping this is all covered under our extended warranty.
One question that we keep asking ourselves, is there something we should have done with the bearing? We've been told no service is required, service shop said we did nothing wrong, but is there any periodic inspection that should have been done that might have prevented this? It's also making us wonder if there's something we need to have done on the other 3 wheel bearings as we really, really don't want to go through this ordeal again.
-- Edited by NWescapee on Sunday 25th of October 2015 11:33:52 AM
I have heard their life is about 80K?
5th wheel has way less than 80K miles on it, so if that is their life, something else caused the failure.
Not really...............Only if they were actually checking and looking for any issues with bearing condition. I would pull all the hubs and do a check on all the bearings. If you, the owner are unable to do this. Get a reputable and competent shop that knows what they're doing.
Another note: Whoever pulls this apart to check anything.......Have a good look. If they are Chinesium bearings then throw them all in the trash. Get a high quality American Made bearing like SKF, NTN, etc.
If it's a Dexter NeverLube, They might have both the French made or the Chinese. There were several bad shipments from China in the beginning. NeverLubes will fail. They are rated for 50k, which for most RV's is a lifetime. For us full timers, its several years.
-- Edited by Alie and Jims Carrilite on Sunday 25th of October 2015 05:40:32 PM
Ruth,
Any bearing will fail, and I know of some other DRV Suites owners that are quite happy with the life of their Never-Lube bearings. That is probably what is in your Mobile Suites. Yours is the same model year and floor plan as ours. The difference is that you have towed yours a lot more than we have ours. I'd say that if you want to be ahead of the game and replace them all, Dexter still makes the Never-Lube bearings.
Dexter Never-Lube Bearings
They show to have 3 different sizes, so a little research would be required to determine what was needed for your axles.
Terry
Unfortunately it will take 2-3 weeks before the new axles arrive.
Ruth:
Your failure is not all that uncommon. Nev-R-Lub bearings are well known to have catastrophic failures. When they fail they tent to wipe out everything including the spindle. Ask me how I know this – twice. Fortunately in both our cases having “H” tires saved any damage to the trailer. (Another reason for “H” tires.)
You can “inspect” Nev-R-Lub’s all you want, but the odds of catching a problem prior to failure is rather small and even if they are almost new they can fail. (Ask me how I know this – yet again.) Yes, I’ve seen problems caught on our and other's trailers in person. But it was as much luck as anything else according to the tecks doing the work.
The only “fix,” IMO, is to replace them with bearings that can be serviced and inspected. That is not all that easy as more components have to be replaced than just the bearings. Split bearings are more trouble for those who travel very little as they require service at least once a year. For those who basically are static - Nev-R-Lub bearings make the most sense, IMO. That is probably the reason many have Nev-R-Lubs. It also make sense for those that do travel but rather infrequently. But if you travel . . .
In our case, as we travel, our previous rig was changed from Nev-R-Lub to standard split bearings that can be checked, easily replaced and lubricated; and tend not to have a catastrophic failure mode. Not EZ-Lub bearings – standard split bearings. We will never have another trailer with Nev-R-Lubs and when we built the trailer in the sig it was specified with Timken spit bearings available at local auto supply stores. They can be inspected and serviced fairly easily and they work with standard size hubs which you can find even in Alaska and Canada. (Again, ask me how I know this.)
This has nothing to do with DRV as such except DRV’s are heavy on the axles – as are other trailers with two axles – and that has shown to be more of an issue with Nev-R-Lubs than anything else regardless of the axle's weight ratings. Just passing along a lot of personal experience and research now that you asked.
BTW, it takes a good Mandrel Press to change the bearings on your hubs if they are Nev-R-Lub. Not something the average person can do and that includes a lot of brake shops. Sometimes it is about the same cost to replace the hubs with new Nev-R-Lub bearings already installed. Been there, had to do that as well. It just depends. Almost anyone can change out a split bearing if they are so inclined or a standard RV shop, etc.
Very sorry for your trouble. PM me as you care for more info.
Bill
While I was in the Dexter shop in South Texas, I had the opportunity to talk with both a Dexter rep and the shop owner about the Nev-R-Lubes. One item that the rep mentioned was that the Nev-R-Lubes do NOT like side stress. This equates to the stress placed on the bearing when you jackknife a trailer into a back in site.... which we all do on occasion. With the bearing pressed together and unserviceable, it was stated that you can check the play in the wheel and tire and it will be within tolerance. But on leaving the campsite and making a hard 90* turn, the bearing housing can separate and the bearing will fail shortly down the road. In our case, seems like every site we take is a hard turn to get into.
Our next RV will have serviceable bearings like Bill mentioned above.
Exactly correct................They were really designed for a single axle boat trailer.
“One item that the rep mentioned was that the Nev-R-Lubes do NOT like side stress.”
There is a bit more to this – but this is correct. While sealed bearings are used in cars and trucks all the time mostly without any issues due to the very nature of the single axle arrangement; on a dual or tri-axle trailer there is tremendous side stress when the trailer is turned or even just rolling down the road. Backing a trailer into a spot that involves a really tight turn (sometimes called “square jacking”) puts even more stress on the bearings. We all have to do this from time to time.
But as was mentioned, you can check the bearings by looking for grease weeping and also for end or axial play and they will be just fine. Then a few days or miles latter looking in the rear view mirror – “Linda, this isn’t good” - and you have a wheel sitting at 30 degrees off center with a lot of smoke dragging down the road. Again, love those “H” tires. They never lost air, just a lot of rubber.
I’ve seen Nev-R-Lubes fail at 59,589 miles, 11,956 miles and at 3,169 miles. Got lucky and caught the last one just before it wiped out the axle, etc. That was when we changed them to split bearings at Linda’s insistence. (She is special.)
May I add, the choice of bearings, IMO, is based on type of use. If you are static and don’t move for months at a time Nev-R-Lubes maybe the best choice as split bearings should be serviced at least once a year or about 12,000 miles whichever comes first. That can be a lot of trouble for some. If you travel often perhaps another choice is better.
BTW, some OEMs are now using EZ-Lube bearings due to issues with Nev-R-Lubes. EZ-Lub allow greasing without disassembly. But based on speaking with experts in the suspension business, not trailer OEM’s, I don’t recommend them. If you over grease the bearings you will blow out the rear seals and then comes a failure. It is a fine line between enough grease and too much and just greasing doesn’t allow for true inspection of the bearing.
So now we know we'll have periodic maintenance on the new bearings, but peace of mind goes a long way. We didn't have to replace both axles, as one is still intact, but from a safety perspective we felt it was the wisest thing to do.
Now if someone has any pull with Lippert to get this process going faster, that would be sweet!!
I think people confuse the styles that are out there.
This one, The Bearing Buddy, is a spring loaded plunger. It replaces the regular dust cap. It will continue to push grease through the hub until it eventually pushes grease out of the seal. These were more intended for boat trailers.
http://www.bearingbuddy.com/how.html
E-Z Lube is a grease passage ported through the length of the stub. Injecting grease to the back of the inner bearing until it pushes all the way through the outer bearing.
http://www.trailerenterprises.com/index_files/EZLubeHubs.htm
Then there is the Never Lube.
http://www.dexteraxle.com/nev_r_lube_bearings
The one thing to observe is the over all width of the bearing surface. The wider the bearings are apart from each other they can handle more side load. If you look at the Never Lube bearing assembly the over all width is very narrow. They actually indicate on their website about the maximum allowable wheel offset these bearings can handle.
Well, now I am way smarter about bearings than I ever thought I would be. I guess bearing maintenance will be on my future "radar" more so than it was a couple of days ago.
Yeah well I own and operate a machine shop up here. When it comes to the mechanics of things.......That's my forte'.
I’ll have to compliment MOR/ryde when I had a Dexter supplied Nev-R-Lube fail in the middle of nowhere New Mexico on I-40. On a Friday afternoon, at 4PM Eastern Time, I called MOR/ryde saying: “Help!” Monday morning at 10:30AM the axle, hub with bearing installed, beam arm, etc. all showed up at an axle shop in Albuquerque, New Mexico. By mid-afternoon we were on the road. A lot of things had to come together to make that happen but the service manager at MOR/ryde somehow got all that together in time to make the last shipment out for the day – on a Friday. Can't say enough about their service.
Truly sorry for your situation. I've been there.
Our 2008 5th wheel has a frame and axles from Lippert. The bearings are never lube and are pressed into the brake drum. No way to replace just the bearing, got to get a whole new brake drum from Lippert. I've had 3 bearings fail over the last 8 years. The first fail occurred at about 5K miles during a brake service where the seal ring just popped off as the brake drum was being put back on. The second failed as we were going down the road with about 10K miles on the 5th wheel. We trade off driving every two hours and I always check the temps on the brake drum and axle hub with one of those pistol grip infra-red temp probes (20 bucks or so on amazon). The temp on the axel hub was elevated (300 degrees vs 90 - 100 degrees normal) so I knew a problem was developing. Dropped our speed down to 45 miles an hour and made the remaining 60 miles to the campground. When the mobile mechanic jacked up the tire, there was a good 1/2 of wiggle on the axel. The third bearing never failed but there was a bit more wiggle at 40K miles when you wiggled the tire on the axel. I got a new brake drum/bearing installed and now travel with this old drum/bearing and a new drum/bearing so I've got two spares incase I find a problem in the future.
So, to minimize the surprise of a failed bearing going down the road I continue to check temps on the axel hub every two hours and everytime I adjust the brakes when the tire is off the ground I'll check the amount of wiggle on the axel. the wiggle spec is about 1/8 inch or so as you push on one side of the tire and pull on the opposite side. I've done another 15K miles in the last 2 years and no problems so knock on wood.
good luck out there,
Lance
No chance of upgrading to Mor Ryde right now, trailer is not really movable, I understand there is a Western location near LA that can do the install but we have no option to get the trailer there at this time with only 3 wheels on the 5th wheel.
It's certainly something we're considering if we have any other issues.
Ruth
Checking the temps on the hubs is a really good idea. I do this as well. I leave the pretty wheel inserts out so I can check right on the hubs. Get a feel for what your nominal temps run for a reference and compare front to back temps. If they are the same your probably good. You will notice a higher temp on the side that is in the sun. (Well duh!) So the comparison of front to back is, IMO, the best comparison.
Do the same with the side wall temps of your tires especially if you don’t have tire pressure monitors. Low pressure will usually equal higher side wall temps. I do this every time we stop including the truck.
Bill
I would find a better RV or not RV at all
Not saying one should not never look! but every 2 hours? that's ridiculous
Mor/Ryde IS can be installed by any decent truck or trailer repair garage. It's a fairly easy install and Mor/ryde provides installation instructions with detailed info. The only concern that Gary at Mor/ryde had is that the alignment is done correctly. Many shops use the laser alignment system the Mor/ryde uses but it can be done as well without the laser. If you want to go with the IS system there should be no reason not to have it done where you are now.
-- Edited by R12 on Thursday 29th of October 2015 05:31:04 AM
The brand or cost of the RV has nothing to do with this discussion. We’re discussing bearings. No, checking every two hours is not necessary, IMO. But when we stop, while one of us is using the “facilities” I check the bearings. Good, professional, drivers do a walk around and check the equipment at every stop. It’s just a prudent procedure. That’s why professionals are taught to do it. Just saying . . .
A lot of these discussions are to allow newer RVers to gain perspective and evaluate opinions. Even some of us "old hats" learn something now and then and I hope this thread has educated somewhat to help those who might not have known about these options.
If you want to see pics, look here: bkamericanodyssey.com It was one of the more recent posts.
As you said, "to each his own." I do a walk-around every time we stop as well.
I think it is ridiculous for someone to criticize others for their method of doing things.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 30th of October 2015 07:20:34 AM
Bill, having observed you that day we unknowingly crossed paths with you in Southern Illinois last year (before we got to know many on here - including you) Your entire "inspection drill" took only a few minutes and you seemed very thorough to this untrained eye. Seems some of us think that is too much of a hassle or not worth one's time. Cheap insurance, I say. Sure wish I had been bolder back then and come on over and said hello. This is one newb that is grateful for at least one "old hat" lending perspective and helping us evaluate options.
Bill, you are quite right on the sunny side vs shady side temperature differences so comparing temps between the front tire and rear tire or bearing is a great way to do it. And just to stay in tip top shape and keep the leprechauns on my side I always do a short jig in front of the truck at each 2 hour stop. Get a few stares as well. I'm looking for better leprechauns that will tolerate one jig per day instead of every two hours, but haven't found any yet. Drop me a line if you know of any.
Keep dancing out there and going down the road,
Lance
but all the same. When I travel in my MH I just like to go from A to B and not have the constant nag/want(in my head) to be stopping every 2 hours out of fear of a RV failure of some sort. Heres the deal Most failures are preventable by having things checked and serviced correctly before leaving your home stop or if your full timing a scheduled (EG)5000 mile inspection. Its just my opinion stopping every 2 hours and doing a temp gun test on ever little hot spot on your trailer is ridiculous in my opinion. As said to each their own.
Paul
Ah, you just changed the total criteria – a Motorhome. Which is fine but a different conversation, IMO.
Trailers are the problem with bearings. Like cars, pickups and most trucks, by the very nature of the motorhome it is not particularly hard on bearings. Especially in a single axle configuration due to no side stress for one reason.
The only pickup truck bearing I’ve ever seen fail was one being towed behind a motorhome. Why – side stress on the front bearings due to be “pulled” into turns. Hence side stress.
That’s a whole different discussion – motorhomes. This discussion, began by Ruth the OP, was about trailer bearings. And those do tend to be problematic. Part of "A choice."
Bill
I never changed any criteria? I said **IF** I owned a travel trailer and also IF my MH caused the same worry I would find a unit
that negated that worry like oil filled bearings in fact iam surprized no one here seems to mention or use them
-- Edited by ticat900 on Friday 30th of October 2015 10:40:08 AM
DRV used oil filled bearings up until a year or so ago. There are many of us owners of Mobile and Elite Suites that had oil filled bearings and have eliminated them and went to greased bearings. Although I feel the oil filled bearings are superior to greased bearings there are just too many problems of leakage with them. I replaced quite a few of the O-rings on the outer seal and it is easy enough to spot a leak but the rear seals are not as easy to check and when they do leak it can be a major problem in a short time.
interesting as I have not seen that nor heard of it. Iam on my third DP and have never seen a problem with any of my hubs front or rear .We have sold a few large 5ers with oil bath bearings and have not had a single complaint anyhow that's your real life experience as u say. I don't think there a big problem at all
It's a big enough problem for DRV. They have stopped offering oil bath hubs and are now using conventional greased hubs.
I don't know why a certain RV manufacturer would go away from them but there(oil bath bearings) definatly a tried and proven product/idea
don't be silly and read too deeply here.There is nothing at all bad about your oil bath bearings if that's what you have and if their the greaseable ones same thing applies
too much fear mongering here for sure. relax.Have your systems inspected every 6000 miles or so. keep a eye on hub temps etc and you will be just fine
With all due respect, while the oil bath hubs are a proven thing in the commercial (think 18-wheelers) realm and many of the motor homes, those for the smaller axles and hubs do have problems. You've been told already by two different people that the oil bath hubs on the DRV Suites models have had problems, and now you've been told the same by a third, and all three of us have DRV's so we know of which we speak. So, instead of trying to diminish the information, advice, practices, and beliefs of others, it might be of benefit to do more research instead of saying there are no problems. A lot of times, the actual application of even a proven type of product can have problems.
Terry
I think its a great deal and if I had a a trailer I would have them