Before I go blow a lot of money, I wanted to get some feedback if possible from people who may be in a similar situation or who can give some insight.. and reassurance. :)
To keep it to the point we aren't looking to be full timers, we are looking to spend the weekends.. maybe once a month, twice a month and then possible a week vacation here and there.. maybe 2 weeks. We are looking at 5th wheels but it seems like most people who purchase a 5th wheel are full timers, so the question here is are there people with 5th wheelers who are part timers who are happy with their investment.. was it worth it for them?
For the 5th wheels themselves I'm not looking for super fancy, something 30feet and below with the emphasis on quality (frame etc). These things are basically rolling earth quakes and I don't want it falling apart on me. Is it reasonable to get a quality 5th wheel for 30k? I've been looking at Jayco which lists between 40k and a few billion dollars.. but I may be able to talk them down to the 30k range. Does a Jayco make sense here or are there other brands in this price range that would make sense? Keep in mind that this should be a half ton trailer (light), even though I'm going to pull it with a 3/4 ton truck.
Buying new vs used has been driving me crazy. The deprecation of a new 5th wheel is amazing but the used trailers generally look pretty rough. I've been trying to settle on a previous year model (new 2015) or one that is just a year or two old. The concern that I have for trailers 1 or 2 years old is that the owner sold them for a reason. Is it generally because they decided that it wasn't for them or are most of these 1 to 2 year old trailers lemons?
Another thing I wanted to ask is how well do 5th wheelers tailgate? I live in SEC country and another trip idea for me is to visit away football games. Do 5th wheelers hold their own dry camping in a parking lot with all the other big rigs? Anybody have experience with this?
Being in the South it gets pretty hot, I've been reading that the AC units in 5th wheelers don't really cool the camper once it gets very hot outside.. is this common place with cheaper 5th wheelers? Is it typically because of lack of insulation or is it because of a cheaper AC unit?
On the pop outs for 5th wheelers, it would seem to me that over time those will naturally warp due to weight.. has anybody experienced that? I've heard that they sell supports that you can put under them.. which leads me to believe that it's a problem. Anybody with experience dealing with the longevity of the popouts/sideouts?
I've got many more questions but I'll leave this for now, any insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Malvin
manycats said
06:02 PM Oct 14, 2015
A couple of years ago we found a 1991 Aljo fiver for under $5K that has been an absolute delight. It had only had two owners and was in pristine condition. All appliances and systems work as if they had never been used. Our only expense was changing tires because they were too old. It's only 27' long, no slideouts, just right for the two of us and our three cats. We will not be doing long term traveling (I still have to work) but right now we're living in it full-time and loving it. Don't be afraid of pre-used. Some people just have a change of circumstances, illness, loss of jobs, and many others that move them to sell perfectly good units. Just have a thorough inspection before you buy. You may find a gem..
soos said
08:29 PM Oct 14, 2015
Many people buy 5th wheels for part time use and are happy with them. We have full timed for 6 years but will become Part timers soon. We'll keep the 5th wheel for summers and vacations.
In the 30 ft range I would look at Artic Fox. They make some smaller 5th wheels and build a quality product. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used AF. Its one of the brands that holds up. Not sure if Jayco does, I have no experience with them.
We don't tailgate but we dry camp all the time. A solar panel will help quite a bit with that, as will a small generator. We spend 1-2 weeks at a time in the desert with no hook up, easily and comfortably.
"Being in the South it gets pretty hot, I've been reading that the AC units in 5th wheelers don't really cool the camper once it gets very hot outside.. is this common place with cheaper 5th wheelers? Is it typically because of lack of insulation or is it because of a cheaper AC unit?"
If its true, it would be more because of the lack of insuation and having single pane windows, rather than a cheaper AC unit. Our rig stayed plenty cool in 120* this summer, but it is built for full time living. I have friends who didn't fare as well with a less solidly built rig.
"On the pop outs for 5th wheelers, it would seem to me that over time those will naturally warp due to weight.. has anybody experienced that? I've heard that they sell supports that you can put under them.. which leads me to believe that it's a problem. Anybody with experience dealing with the longevity of the popouts/hideouts"
Occasionally I hear about someone who had a sagging slide but it has never happened to anyone i know, and I don't think its a prevalent problem. I have never met anyone who uses the supports, and I would think the only time you would even consider it is if you were leaving the rig in one spot for months on end, with the slides out. That doesn't seem to be what you have in mind so I definitely wouldn' worry about it.
Sue
-- Edited by soos on Wednesday 14th of October 2015 08:31:18 PM
PD CFK said
09:07 PM Oct 14, 2015
We travel frequently but only part time and leave our rig plugged in on 30 amps, with one of the a/c's running(only not as cool as if we were in it) and the slides out. The only problem we ever had with a slide was that one of them was installed incorrectly at the factory. Fortunately it was under warranty and was an easy fix. I thought people used those tripods to stabilize the rig b/c they don't like to feel movement when walking inside.
Used Arctic Fox is good; also Excel or Newmar... (there are a couple of those on PPL site right now, you can google it) And of course we like our Carriage Cameo. You have to look until you find one that looks well loved by previous owners. Also some folks think it is best to pay to have it inspected by an independent RV mechanic, especially if you don't know much about it.
I've seen some pretty serious weekend parties going on over in Marksville, La. when LSU is playing! RVers seem to take advantage of any opportunity to get together. You'll see. Enjoy. Pat K
soos said
09:26 PM Oct 14, 2015
PD CFK wrote:
I am thinking Excel and Newmar *might* be too heavy for them. For that matter, AF might be too.
And I think the stablizer he is talking about is not the one that goes under the pin. Those are pretty common, although I hear they don't work. I think he is talking about a support that goes directly under the slide. I have heard of them, but never seen them in use.
Sue
-- Edited by soos on Wednesday 14th of October 2015 09:27:13 PM
CK2018 said
10:21 PM Oct 14, 2015
The most common reason for selling an RV is to upgrade. If you are new to RVing, it's highly unlikely that you will keep the first one long term, even being a "weekender". You won't truly know what you like and what works for you until you have spent considerable time in it...and having spent that time, you will be much better prepared and informed to find the perfect next rig. This is why a used rig is a great idea just starting out. (get the education without eating the depreciation) I agree with an inspection...if you are looking to spend up to 30K, a few hundred is cheap insurance, and really no different or less necessary than a home inspection for a real estate deal. When you find a potential winner, look to see if that brand has an owners forum online, and ofcourse almost any RV forum (like this one) will give you some great insight to that brand. There is nothing like hearing first hand experience from owners. If you are buying something made in the past 10 years, you won't have issues with the "pop-outs" sagging (by the way, they are now referred to as slide outs). Today's systems are far advanced and if properly maintained will last for years. You do get what you pay for, so be prepared to balance your desire for quality with your willingness to part with money.
We are still part timers, logging between 30 and 60 days a year. Our first rig was an 8 year old Cardinal. We only paid about 12K, and put another 1000 into tires and such. In one year of traveling, and continuing to look at other rigs, we determined what worked for us and what to look for and then spent another year finding it.
By the way, not all used rigs are train wrecks...our current rig is approaching two years old, and have been told that it's as pristine as the day we took delivery.
If part of your plan is "tail-gating", find one with a generator and reasonable tank capacities...a properly equipped 5er will stand with the motorhomes any day.
As for towing, 5ers are leaps and bounds above a bumper tow, they tow like a dream. Again, this is assuming you have your weights, hitch and general set up done properly.
Welcome to the family, good luck and have fun.
The Bear II said
09:24 AM Oct 15, 2015
We are part timers but do stay at an RV Resort near San Diego for 3-4 months during the summer. Our 5th wheel is used at least once per month for weekend trips and several times each year for longer trips. Our longest traveling trip was 5 weeks covering 7000 miles.
The 5th wheel we bought new in 1994, it is 38 ft long and has a bedroom slideout and a 14 foot by 4 foot deep living room slideout. Both slideouts work just like they did when new. This 5th wheel was in the middle price range for 5th wheels at that time.
It has one 15,000 BTU dometic ducted air conditioner. There are some techniques that can be used to help keep the inside of the RV as cool as possible when the outside temps reach 80 degrees and higher. At 100 + degrees outside, our RV is comfortable inside as long as you're not moving around a lot like doing cleaning or dancing... Once the outside temps reach 80 degrees we keep our air conditioner on 24/7. We find this helps keep the inside as cool as possible throughout the day vs. turning on the air conditioner once we get too warm.
We have had no problems that I can attribute to road vibration. At 20 years old we did have one of the springs break, but that I would consider normal wear and tear. I replaced all four springs myself over a weekend.
If it was up to me I would buy a well kept 2-3 year old unit. Let someone else take the depreciation hit. My DW only wants new.
So yes you can find a good used unit that will last for many years. Our 21 year old 5th wheel when it's washed and waxed still looks new. The inside is in great shape as well. We really like the floor plan and haven't found anything we like better so as long as it holds together we will keep it.
SuzieQ said
07:30 PM Oct 15, 2015
Do you have any problems at RV parks with a 21 year old 5th wheel? Just asking because I've seen some comments here about parks not accepting units over 10 yrs old.
soos said
10:42 PM Oct 15, 2015
SuzieQ wrote:
Do you have any problems at RV parks with a 21 year old 5th wheel? Just asking because I've seen some comments here about parks not accepting units over 10 yrs old.
Some of the "higher end" RV parks only accept RVs younger than 10 years old, but they are usually the resorts that have 4 pools and lots of activities and many times they will make exceptions if the rig is in good condition.
It is by no means a common requirement that the rig be "newer".
SuzieQ said
06:11 PM Oct 16, 2015
Thanks Soos
tdst51 said
10:34 PM Oct 31, 2015
You will find all kinds of different opinions here on whether to buy new or used; for us it was no question-new. But that's because we got burned on our first fifth wheeler. Water damage and mold. We were lucky because my wife found an RV dealer who gave us a thousand bucks for it. I would have paid anybody one hundred bucks to tow it off. That being said- you can get a lot more for your money buying used. If you decide to buy new, be sure and check out Forest River rv's. We're quite pleased with ours, but we are a little predjudiced. And the best thing we did was getting the 50amp upgrade which came with two AC's. Good luck to you!
kb0zke said
07:47 PM Nov 1, 2015
Welcome, Malvin. It sounds like you have a plan of what you think you want to do for the next couple of years, but you don't have a lot of RV experience. If you hang around RV forums for any length of time you will hear (read) someone tell someone else to "Buy your third coach first." What they mean is that many people buy a coach that isn't right for them as their initial purchase. They like the idea, though, so they trade that one in on another one that is closer. Some time later they trade that one in on their third coach, which is usually pretty close to what they want/need. If you buy those three coaches new, that third one will cost you a TON of money. That's why people are told to buy used for the first two. We know a couple who bought a brand-new popular motor home for their full-time coach. Less than a year later they traded it even-up for a 10-year-old Foretravel because they could see that their popular brand just didn't have the quality for full-time use.
You aren't planning on full-timing, but you can see how their situation might apply to you. Do some research about the various brands. Join the owners' forums for brands that interest you, and ask lots of questions. In the meantime, load your truck up with full fuel, wife, kids, dogs, and whatever else will ride in the truck on the way to and from the tailgate party. Go get the axles weighed. That will be just one stop on the scales, since the scales are made to weigh semis. Now you can take the wife, kids, and dogs back home, and then take that scale slip to your local dealer for your truck. Take in the VIN and the dealer should be able to look up the specs for your exact truck. Compare the axle weight ratings to what you actually weigh. That will tell you how much more you can safely add to your truck. That will help you select your 5'er.
When you look at coaches, the first thing you should do is look at floor plans. At this point you can ignore the price and overall condition - you are just looking at how usable the layout is FOR YOU. There are only so many ways to arrange a box, so chances are that you will be able to find your preferred arrangement in a brand you want.
As you get closer to picking "the one" start to pay attention to the weight of the coach. Don't let a sales person tell you that your truck can pull it. Wally Byam (founder of Airstream) once pulled one of his trailers with a bicycle. Your truck can "pull" any trailer on the lot (with the proper hitch), but that doesn't mean it can do it SAFELY. Look for the sticker that gives you the gross weight of the coach. Figure that 20-25% of that number will be the pin weight, which is the weight that will sit on the rear axle of your truck. From your trip to the scales and dealer you now know how much you can really take. Your dealer should have also given you the gross combined weight rating for your truck. Add the total weight of your truck to the gross weight of the trailer. If you are under the gross combined weight you are okay.
One thing that you won't have on your truck when you weigh it is the hitch. If you are okay with the 25% of gross then you should be fine. If that number puts you close then you might have to go ask how much a hitch weighs. I don't have any numbers, but they aren't light.
SuzieQ said
07:39 PM Nov 2, 2015
Wonderful advice, David. I've copied it for myself
Before I go blow a lot of money, I wanted to get some feedback if possible from people who may be in a similar situation or who can give some insight.. and reassurance. :)
To keep it to the point we aren't looking to be full timers, we are looking to spend the weekends.. maybe once a month, twice a month and then possible a week vacation here and there.. maybe 2 weeks. We are looking at 5th wheels but it seems like most people who purchase a 5th wheel are full timers, so the question here is are there people with 5th wheelers who are part timers who are happy with their investment.. was it worth it for them?
For the 5th wheels themselves I'm not looking for super fancy, something 30feet and below with the emphasis on quality (frame etc). These things are basically rolling earth quakes and I don't want it falling apart on me. Is it reasonable to get a quality 5th wheel for 30k? I've been looking at Jayco which lists between 40k and a few billion dollars.. but I may be able to talk them down to the 30k range. Does a Jayco make sense here or are there other brands in this price range that would make sense? Keep in mind that this should be a half ton trailer (light), even though I'm going to pull it with a 3/4 ton truck.
Buying new vs used has been driving me crazy. The deprecation of a new 5th wheel is amazing but the used trailers generally look pretty rough. I've been trying to settle on a previous year model (new 2015) or one that is just a year or two old. The concern that I have for trailers 1 or 2 years old is that the owner sold them for a reason. Is it generally because they decided that it wasn't for them or are most of these 1 to 2 year old trailers lemons?
Another thing I wanted to ask is how well do 5th wheelers tailgate? I live in SEC country and another trip idea for me is to visit away football games. Do 5th wheelers hold their own dry camping in a parking lot with all the other big rigs? Anybody have experience with this?
Being in the South it gets pretty hot, I've been reading that the AC units in 5th wheelers don't really cool the camper once it gets very hot outside.. is this common place with cheaper 5th wheelers? Is it typically because of lack of insulation or is it because of a cheaper AC unit?
On the pop outs for 5th wheelers, it would seem to me that over time those will naturally warp due to weight.. has anybody experienced that? I've heard that they sell supports that you can put under them.. which leads me to believe that it's a problem. Anybody with experience dealing with the longevity of the popouts/sideouts?
I've got many more questions but I'll leave this for now, any insight is greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Malvin
Sue
-- Edited by soos on Wednesday 14th of October 2015 08:31:18 PM
Used Arctic Fox is good; also Excel or Newmar... (there are a couple of those on PPL site right now, you can google it) And of course we like our Carriage Cameo. You have to look until you find one that looks well loved by previous owners. Also some folks think it is best to pay to have it inspected by an independent RV mechanic, especially if you don't know much about it.
I've seen some pretty serious weekend parties going on over in Marksville, La. when LSU is playing! RVers seem to take advantage of any opportunity to get together. You'll see. Enjoy. Pat K
Sue
-- Edited by soos on Wednesday 14th of October 2015 09:27:13 PM
The most common reason for selling an RV is to upgrade. If you are new to RVing, it's highly unlikely that you will keep the first one long term, even being a "weekender". You won't truly know what you like and what works for you until you have spent considerable time in it...and having spent that time, you will be much better prepared and informed to find the perfect next rig. This is why a used rig is a great idea just starting out. (get the education without eating the depreciation) I agree with an inspection...if you are looking to spend up to 30K, a few hundred is cheap insurance, and really no different or less necessary than a home inspection for a real estate deal. When you find a potential winner, look to see if that brand has an owners forum online, and ofcourse almost any RV forum (like this one) will give you some great insight to that brand. There is nothing like hearing first hand experience from owners. If you are buying something made in the past 10 years, you won't have issues with the "pop-outs" sagging (by the way, they are now referred to as slide outs). Today's systems are far advanced and if properly maintained will last for years. You do get what you pay for, so be prepared to balance your desire for quality with your willingness to part with money.
We are still part timers, logging between 30 and 60 days a year. Our first rig was an 8 year old Cardinal. We only paid about 12K, and put another 1000 into tires and such. In one year of traveling, and continuing to look at other rigs, we determined what worked for us and what to look for and then spent another year finding it.
By the way, not all used rigs are train wrecks...our current rig is approaching two years old, and have been told that it's as pristine as the day we took delivery.
If part of your plan is "tail-gating", find one with a generator and reasonable tank capacities...a properly equipped 5er will stand with the motorhomes any day.
As for towing, 5ers are leaps and bounds above a bumper tow, they tow like a dream. Again, this is assuming you have your weights, hitch and general set up done properly.
Welcome to the family, good luck and have fun.
The 5th wheel we bought new in 1994, it is 38 ft long and has a bedroom slideout and a 14 foot by 4 foot deep living room slideout. Both slideouts work just like they did when new. This 5th wheel was in the middle price range for 5th wheels at that time.
It has one 15,000 BTU dometic ducted air conditioner. There are some techniques that can be used to help keep the inside of the RV as cool as possible when the outside temps reach 80 degrees and higher. At 100 + degrees outside, our RV is comfortable inside as long as you're not moving around a lot like doing cleaning or dancing... Once the outside temps reach 80 degrees we keep our air conditioner on 24/7. We find this helps keep the inside as cool as possible throughout the day vs. turning on the air conditioner once we get too warm.
We have had no problems that I can attribute to road vibration. At 20 years old we did have one of the springs break, but that I would consider normal wear and tear. I replaced all four springs myself over a weekend.
If it was up to me I would buy a well kept 2-3 year old unit. Let someone else take the depreciation hit. My DW only wants new.
So yes you can find a good used unit that will last for many years. Our 21 year old 5th wheel when it's washed and waxed still looks new. The inside is in great shape as well. We really like the floor plan and haven't found anything we like better so as long as it holds together we will keep it.
Some of the "higher end" RV parks only accept RVs younger than 10 years old, but they are usually the resorts that have 4 pools and lots of activities and many times they will make exceptions if the rig is in good condition.
It is by no means a common requirement that the rig be "newer".
You aren't planning on full-timing, but you can see how their situation might apply to you. Do some research about the various brands. Join the owners' forums for brands that interest you, and ask lots of questions. In the meantime, load your truck up with full fuel, wife, kids, dogs, and whatever else will ride in the truck on the way to and from the tailgate party. Go get the axles weighed. That will be just one stop on the scales, since the scales are made to weigh semis. Now you can take the wife, kids, and dogs back home, and then take that scale slip to your local dealer for your truck. Take in the VIN and the dealer should be able to look up the specs for your exact truck. Compare the axle weight ratings to what you actually weigh. That will tell you how much more you can safely add to your truck. That will help you select your 5'er.
When you look at coaches, the first thing you should do is look at floor plans. At this point you can ignore the price and overall condition - you are just looking at how usable the layout is FOR YOU. There are only so many ways to arrange a box, so chances are that you will be able to find your preferred arrangement in a brand you want.
As you get closer to picking "the one" start to pay attention to the weight of the coach. Don't let a sales person tell you that your truck can pull it. Wally Byam (founder of Airstream) once pulled one of his trailers with a bicycle. Your truck can "pull" any trailer on the lot (with the proper hitch), but that doesn't mean it can do it SAFELY. Look for the sticker that gives you the gross weight of the coach. Figure that 20-25% of that number will be the pin weight, which is the weight that will sit on the rear axle of your truck. From your trip to the scales and dealer you now know how much you can really take. Your dealer should have also given you the gross combined weight rating for your truck. Add the total weight of your truck to the gross weight of the trailer. If you are under the gross combined weight you are okay.
One thing that you won't have on your truck when you weigh it is the hitch. If you are okay with the 25% of gross then you should be fine. If that number puts you close then you might have to go ask how much a hitch weighs. I don't have any numbers, but they aren't light.