Can't really tell. I'm in a 5th wheel, parked on the grass for about a month now. Jacks are on wooden blocks. I noticed yesterday that the entire coach is much lower to the ground (by a few feet) from the time we parked it, although it is still perfectly level. The wood is still above the ground, so I would think if we were sinking due to the soft grass (there's been a lot of rain lately), the wood might be under the ground level by now or at least a little bit embedded, which it is not.
Is it possible that the coach has lowered itself on the jacks (didn't hear or feel anything though)? This just seems weird and I'm not sure whether I should be worried about it, or if there's any action to take (i.e. raising the jacks).
We hope to be leaving in a week.
TRAILERKING said
08:08 AM Jul 15, 2015
Trailer isn't "sinking"..........You're just getting "taller".
Dave Buck said
08:12 AM Jul 15, 2015
Did you really mean a "few feet"? If it is a few feet lower it would be sitting completely on the ground and the tires would be completely under ground.
The Bear II said
08:59 AM Jul 15, 2015
By jacks do you mean you have a leveling system or just the landing gear in the front and stabilizers in the rear ?
If you have a leveling system it may be lowering due to a leak if it's hydraulic or air.
If no leveling system then I would guess you are sinking but only a few inches not feet.
We came back to our old TT after being gone for a week, it was parked on grass and there had been several storms. The tongue jack had sunk into the ground about a foot, even with a couple of 2X6s under it.
cherylbrv said
03:18 PM Jul 15, 2015
The Bear II wrote:
By jacks do you mean you have a leveling system or just the landing gear in the front and stabilizers in the rear ?
If you have a leveling system it may be lowering due to a leak if it's hydraulic or air.
If no leveling system then I would guess you are sinking but only a few inches not feet.
We came back to our old TT after being gone for a week, it was parked on grass and there had been several storms. The tongue jack had sunk into the ground about a foot, even with a couple of 2X6s under it.
Yes, it is a hydraulic leveling system with LG in front and stabilizers in the rear.
When we parked, the king pin was about level with my forehead and I could walk underneath the front area. Now it is level with my chest - at least 1 1/2 to 2 feet.. The wood is still on top of the grass, as are the tires. Upon further inspection, I'm pretty sure the metal parts (the landing gear) is much smaller than it was previously; indicating that the entire rig has lowered, which as some have suggested, could be a leak in the hydraulic fluid.
But if that's the cause, is it possible for it to be lowered completely evenly so we remain level (in other words, all 6 jacks: 2 LG in front and 4 in rear) retract evenly and at the same time?
And next question - how serious is a leak and how difficult to fix? We'll check the fluid level tomorrow when we return to the area.
-- Edited by cherylbrv on Wednesday 15th of July 2015 03:23:15 PM
RickandJanice said
03:24 PM Jul 15, 2015
I'm also hoping you mean it feels a few inches lower. Could be your hydraulic jacks are bleeding off. The Lippert jacks that are used on DRV's have a bad reputation for the seals giving out after 3-4 years so you are either due or overdue to start having seal issues. If this is the case, you need to either get the rams rebuilt or replaced. The only facility that I know of that will rebuild them is http://www.robertsqualityrv.com/. The rebuild that Bob does is actually better than replacing them and will definitely last much longer. The cost is about the same for a rebuild or a replacement.
Note Of Caution, if the jacks are beginning to bleed off, please keep a very close eye on them as they could start dropping when travelling.
cherylbrv said
03:30 PM Jul 15, 2015
RickandJanice wrote:
I'm also hoping you mean it feels a few inches lower. Could be your hydraulic jacks are bleeding off. The Lippert jacks that are used on DRV's have a bad reputation for the seals giving out after 3-4 years so you are either due or overdue to start having seal issues. If this is the case, you need to either get the rams rebuilt or replaced. The only facility that I know of that will rebuild them is http://www.robertsqualityrv.com/. The rebuild that Bob does is actually better than replacing them and will definitely last much longer. The cost is about the same for a rebuild or a replacement.
Note Of Caution, if the jacks are beginning to bleed off, please keep a very close eye on them as they could start dropping when travelling.
What exactly are we looking for and where? I guess I should extend the question -- if the level is low, how can we figure out WHY it's low? Obviously the first solution will be to add more fluid and raise the jacks up again and keep an eye on how much it's going down again.
-- Edited by cherylbrv on Wednesday 15th of July 2015 03:33:07 PM
RickandJanice said
04:04 PM Jul 15, 2015
If inside seals are leaking and jacks are bleeding off, you will not find an actual leak of fluid. The fluid will just bleed back into the reservoir and the jacks that are bleeding off will appear to have been retracted like you are describing. I would re-level the rig, mark the fluid level in the reservoir and then measure the extended potion on each jack and either mark the jacks or write down the measurement. Then check daily to see which jacks are retracting by how much and also check the fluid level to see if it rises as they retract. If fluid level rises. then it is inside seals, if not, then start looking for leaks, starting with hose connections at every ram first (including slide rams). Also check for any leaks around the top or bottom of each ram with a white rag or paper towel (red fluid on towel indicated outside seal leak).
Sometimes air also get into the system if fluid level is too low in the reservoir and create the same symptom as a seal leak. If that is your issue, then you will not find any of the above leaks as described. To check for correct fluid level, you need to hook up, raise all jacks and pull all slides in. Then check fluid level. The fluid should be within 1/4" - 1/2" from the top of the reservoir. After filling the reservoir, run the jacks down to ground and retract them a few times, then unhook and re-level the rig and begin extending and retracting the slide in this order to work any air back to the reservoir:
Slide Extend Sequence:
Bedroom
Off Door Side(kitchen)
Door Side(living room /dinette)
Slide Retract Sequence:
Door
Off Door
Bedroom
It is was recommended to us many years ago by the hydraulic design engineer for the DRV systems that you always follow the same sequence every time you set up to to prevent any issue with air in lines. We always follow this sequence and have never had air problems, but have had jack rams fail.
Don't get discouraged, you really do have a well built rig, this is just part of having a hydraulic system and like anything else that has moving parts, parts will eventually fail. Hydraulic systems are easier to fix and maintain once you understand them and will generally last much longer than mechanical systems. PM me if you have any questions and I can send you my phone number if you we need to talk.
Judy L said
06:02 PM Jul 16, 2015
I can't begin to tell you how helpful it would have been for us to have had the explanation that RickandJanice provided above when we owned our 2007 Teton. We owned it for about a year and never did figure out exactly what the problem was even after having it looked at by three different repair shops. One replaced the passenger side front valve and that accomplished absolutely nothing. Two others looked at it but because the problems were intermittent, they refused to work on it. At one time or another throughout the period we owned it we had problems with all of the jacks refusing to stay up when we were preparing to leave. It was generally worse if we had been stationary for any length of time. I worried constantly that one would fall down while we were traveling. I did finally figure out that moving the bedroom slide in and out sometimes seemed to help.
I sure hope that others out there struggling with this system find this post. I know that it would have been very helpful to us and might have helped us analyze and explain the problems we were having to a repair shop.
Thank you Rick and Janice!!
-- Edited by Judy L on Thursday 16th of July 2015 06:04:44 PM
cheryls-other-half said
08:50 AM Jul 17, 2015
OK. So as some of you may know, we're currently TRUCK-less, as we had a blow out in June, and the repair shop still hasn't gotten my rig back yet...
SO:
Regarding Hydraulics leak:
#1, we can't totally level off (connect to truck, close all slides, and test/tag and verify levels.
#2 Last night after getting back at midnight, I did raise the front (landing gear) jacks about 6 inches successfully.
#3 after 2, the rear was much lower.
#4 I am going to go and check the hydraulic levels now. I am only checking to see if I have fluid in tank, as well as put a mark on tank to show me if anything leaks from this point.
#5 (will mark existing fluid height), as well as a mark on current legs (marker).
SO:
a) I am going to check existing levels, (knowing it isn't a full test/etc), and also make sure it isn't empty.
b) I am also going to mark each of the 6 hydraulic legs to show me current position.
c) I am going to monitor A & B until I (hopefully) get truck back next week and can fully close/calibrate/mark full system.
Does this sound right? I can't think of anything else that may work.
I suppose as I am marking the legs, I can check for red (ATF) fluid, but I didn't see any at a quick glance last night at midnight!
Cheers to ALL
Mitch B..on the road
NWescapee said
05:17 PM Jul 24, 2015
Hey Mitch and Cheryl,
We just had 2 solenoid valves replaced, plus part of the hydraulic fluid hose that our techs deemed needed to be replaced. This was after having the landing gear intermittently start slowly dropping while enroute and a couple of different times where the landing gear retracted overnight, one time to the point where the landing gear was all the way retracted. I woke up that morning wondering if my equilibrium was off as I had to go "uphill" to the bathroom. Our problems were intermittent, so hard to diagnose on our own, but the hydraulic guy at the shop figured it out pretty quickly. Our extended warranty covered about half the cost.
cherylbrv said
05:42 PM Jul 24, 2015
I'm really hoping that it's a matter of air getting in the line because they had to rebuild and replace the bedroom slide, so I'm sure they had to open and close it several times to test it (without opening and closing the other slides).
After over a month, we hope to have our truck back next week so we can do what we need to bleed the air out. Otherwise, we still need to have the gray tank replaced, so when they finally get around to doing that, we can have them take a look at the hydraulic system as well.
PIEERE said
09:38 AM Jul 25, 2015
Always something! The 5er I bought last Spring thank goodness has not had that problem yet and it's been sitting on those front jacks since 2007 when it was placed there. Have me thinking now about removing the skirting around there and placing it on cement blocks. I honestly hope you get your maladies worked on and they stop for awhile! giving me second thoughts about the quality of late model RVs. Mine is a 1996 and most problems were from aging; like me! LOL!
RickandJanice said
02:47 PM Jul 25, 2015
cheryls-other-half wrote:
OK. So as some of you may know, we're currently TRUCK-less, as we had a blow out in June, and the repair shop still hasn't gotten my rig back yet...
SO:
Regarding Hydraulics leak:
#1, we can't totally level off (connect to truck, close all slides, and test/tag and verify levels.
#2 Last night after getting back at midnight, I did raise the front (landing gear) jacks about 6 inches successfully.
#3 after 2, the rear was much lower.
#4 I am going to go and check the hydraulic levels now. I am only checking to see if I have fluid in tank, as well as put a mark on tank to show me if anything leaks from this point.
#5 (will mark existing fluid height), as well as a mark on current legs (marker).
SO:
a) I am going to check existing levels, (knowing it isn't a full test/etc), and also make sure it isn't empty.
b) I am also going to mark each of the 6 hydraulic legs to show me current position.
c) I am going to monitor A & B until I (hopefully) get truck back next week and can fully close/calibrate/mark full system.
Does this sound right? I can't think of anything else that may work.
I suppose as I am marking the legs, I can check for red (ATF) fluid, but I didn't see any at a quick glance last night at midnight!
Cheers to ALL
Mitch B..on the road
Mitch, you certainly are on the right track. You can also bleed some of the air out of the slide lines without raising any jacks just by running the slides in and out in the order I suggested. Good luck!
RickandJanice said
02:51 PM Jul 25, 2015
PIEERE wrote:
Always something! The 5er I bought last Spring thank goodness has not had that problem yet and it's been sitting on those front jacks since 2007 when it was placed there. Have me thinking now about removing the skirting around there and placing it on cement blocks. I honestly hope you get your maladies worked on and they stop for awhile! giving me second thoughts about the quality of late model RVs. Mine is a 1996 and most problems were from aging; like me! LOL!
Pierre, you do not have anything to worry about if your jacks are electric. I'm not really sure, but I don't think that the RV industry was using hydraulic jacks in 1998 on 5ht wheels, except maybe extremely heavy high end custom built rigs.
Can't really tell. I'm in a 5th wheel, parked on the grass for about a month now. Jacks are on wooden blocks. I noticed yesterday that the entire coach is much lower to the ground (by a few feet) from the time we parked it, although it is still perfectly level. The wood is still above the ground, so I would think if we were sinking due to the soft grass (there's been a lot of rain lately), the wood might be under the ground level by now or at least a little bit embedded, which it is not.
Is it possible that the coach has lowered itself on the jacks (didn't hear or feel anything though)? This just seems weird and I'm not sure whether I should be worried about it, or if there's any action to take (i.e. raising the jacks).
We hope to be leaving in a week.
If you have a leveling system it may be lowering due to a leak if it's hydraulic or air.
If no leveling system then I would guess you are sinking but only a few inches not feet.
We came back to our old TT after being gone for a week, it was parked on grass and there had been several storms. The tongue jack had sunk into the ground about a foot, even with a couple of 2X6s under it.
Yes, it is a hydraulic leveling system with LG in front and stabilizers in the rear.
When we parked, the king pin was about level with my forehead and I could walk underneath the front area. Now it is level with my chest - at least 1 1/2 to 2 feet.. The wood is still on top of the grass, as are the tires. Upon further inspection, I'm pretty sure the metal parts (the landing gear) is much smaller than it was previously; indicating that the entire rig has lowered, which as some have suggested, could be a leak in the hydraulic fluid.
But if that's the cause, is it possible for it to be lowered completely evenly so we remain level (in other words, all 6 jacks: 2 LG in front and 4 in rear) retract evenly and at the same time?
And next question - how serious is a leak and how difficult to fix? We'll check the fluid level tomorrow when we return to the area.
-- Edited by cherylbrv on Wednesday 15th of July 2015 03:23:15 PM
I'm also hoping you mean it feels a few inches lower. Could be your hydraulic jacks are bleeding off. The Lippert jacks that are used on DRV's have a bad reputation for the seals giving out after 3-4 years so you are either due or overdue to start having seal issues. If this is the case, you need to either get the rams rebuilt or replaced. The only facility that I know of that will rebuild them is http://www.robertsqualityrv.com/. The rebuild that Bob does is actually better than replacing them and will definitely last much longer. The cost is about the same for a rebuild or a replacement.
Note Of Caution, if the jacks are beginning to bleed off, please keep a very close eye on them as they could start dropping when travelling.
What exactly are we looking for and where? I guess I should extend the question -- if the level is low, how can we figure out WHY it's low? Obviously the first solution will be to add more fluid and raise the jacks up again and keep an eye on how much it's going down again.
-- Edited by cherylbrv on Wednesday 15th of July 2015 03:33:07 PM
Sometimes air also get into the system if fluid level is too low in the reservoir and create the same symptom as a seal leak. If that is your issue, then you will not find any of the above leaks as described. To check for correct fluid level, you need to hook up, raise all jacks and pull all slides in. Then check fluid level. The fluid should be within 1/4" - 1/2" from the top of the reservoir. After filling the reservoir, run the jacks down to ground and retract them a few times, then unhook and re-level the rig and begin extending and retracting the slide in this order to work any air back to the reservoir:
Slide Extend Sequence:
Bedroom
Off Door Side(kitchen)
Door Side(living room /dinette)
Slide Retract Sequence:
Door
Off Door
Bedroom
It is was recommended to us many years ago by the hydraulic design engineer for the DRV systems that you always follow the same sequence every time you set up to to prevent any issue with air in lines. We always follow this sequence and have never had air problems, but have had jack rams fail.
Don't get discouraged, you really do have a well built rig, this is just part of having a hydraulic system and like anything else that has moving parts, parts will eventually fail. Hydraulic systems are easier to fix and maintain once you understand them and will generally last much longer than mechanical systems. PM me if you have any questions and I can send you my phone number if you we need to talk.
I can't begin to tell you how helpful it would have been for us to have had the explanation that RickandJanice provided above when we owned our 2007 Teton. We owned it for about a year and never did figure out exactly what the problem was even after having it looked at by three different repair shops. One replaced the passenger side front valve and that accomplished absolutely nothing. Two others looked at it but because the problems were intermittent, they refused to work on it. At one time or another throughout the period we owned it we had problems with all of the jacks refusing to stay up when we were preparing to leave. It was generally worse if we had been stationary for any length of time. I worried constantly that one would fall down while we were traveling. I did finally figure out that moving the bedroom slide in and out sometimes seemed to help.
I sure hope that others out there struggling with this system find this post. I know that it would have been very helpful to us and might have helped us analyze and explain the problems we were having to a repair shop.
Thank you Rick and Janice!!
-- Edited by Judy L on Thursday 16th of July 2015 06:04:44 PM
OK. So as some of you may know, we're currently TRUCK-less, as we had a blow out in June, and the repair shop still hasn't gotten my rig back yet...
SO:
Regarding Hydraulics leak:
#1, we can't totally level off (connect to truck, close all slides, and test/tag and verify levels.
#2 Last night after getting back at midnight, I did raise the front (landing gear) jacks about 6 inches successfully.
#3 after 2, the rear was much lower.
#4 I am going to go and check the hydraulic levels now. I am only checking to see if I have fluid in tank, as well as put a mark on tank to show me if anything leaks from this point.
#5 (will mark existing fluid height), as well as a mark on current legs (marker).
SO:
a) I am going to check existing levels, (knowing it isn't a full test/etc), and also make sure it isn't empty.
b) I am also going to mark each of the 6 hydraulic legs to show me current position.
c) I am going to monitor A & B until I (hopefully) get truck back next week and can fully close/calibrate/mark full system.
Does this sound right? I can't think of anything else that may work.
I suppose as I am marking the legs, I can check for red (ATF) fluid, but I didn't see any at a quick glance last night at midnight!
Cheers to ALL
Mitch B..on the road
We just had 2 solenoid valves replaced, plus part of the hydraulic fluid hose that our techs deemed needed to be replaced. This was after having the landing gear intermittently start slowly dropping while enroute and a couple of different times where the landing gear retracted overnight, one time to the point where the landing gear was all the way retracted. I woke up that morning wondering if my equilibrium was off as I had to go "uphill" to the bathroom. Our problems were intermittent, so hard to diagnose on our own, but the hydraulic guy at the shop figured it out pretty quickly. Our extended warranty covered about half the cost.
After over a month, we hope to have our truck back next week so we can do what we need to bleed the air out. Otherwise, we still need to have the gray tank replaced, so when they finally get around to doing that, we can have them take a look at the hydraulic system as well.
Mitch, you certainly are on the right track. You can also bleed some of the air out of the slide lines without raising any jacks just by running the slides in and out in the order I suggested. Good luck!
Pierre, you do not have anything to worry about if your jacks are electric. I'm not really sure, but I don't think that the RV industry was using hydraulic jacks in 1998 on 5ht wheels, except maybe extremely heavy high end custom built rigs.