Good morning or afternoon... depending on your time zone.
There are a lot of postings on the forum about RV, vehicle and health insurance (all important), but a search didn't turn up anything on long term care insurance. After seeing what my mother went through with my father (Lewy body dementia), my sister and her husband purchased long term care insurance. My wife and I applied for policies several years ago... I was accepted but, because of something in her health history, my wife was declined (and declined when we applied with another company late last year). I still carry my original policy and the premiums went up to $177/month this year.
Our financial adviser says to look at LTC insurance this way: you're not insuring your health or care; you're insuring your wealth. In essence, he says that you're paying the premiums so that, in the event that a high level of long term care is needed (skilled nursing facility, memory/Alzheimer's care unit, etc.) you don't have to exhaust your savings and investments to provide the care. At 62 I am very healthy and, except for my father, ancestors on both sides of the family have lived well into their mid-80s to mid-90s.
My question is this: do you have a personal view on the value of LTC insurance? I would like to hear some perspectives other than my sister and our one adviser. $2,100 a year sounds like a lot of money - but it isn't much when you consider the cost of health care these days...
Thanks!
Rob
Barbaraok said
11:40 AM May 26, 2015
We have had LTC insurance since 2000 - part of our benefits where we worked and we just continued it after retiring. Since we were already paying the premiums (low because of age at which we started) we just look upon it as a routine expense. And realistically, it is likely that only one of us will use it, at least extensively, but the cost of care is a lot. Ours will also pay for home health care and that can be a VERY good benefit later in life, when even though you have a spouse to help, you just need some help with things like bathing that the other spouse can no longer do because they are also getting frail.
Barb
The Bear II said
07:37 AM May 27, 2015
My Dad began to show signs of Dementia at 80 years old. By 82 he required assistance with the daily routine. We brought him home to live with us after he had been in an assisted living facility for 2 years. The facility charged $3500 per month which was covered out of his savings & retirement. The majority of his medical costs were covered by his health benefits from the post office retirement.
He lived until nearly 95 years old. Based on his finances he would have qualified for Medi-Cal from the state of California. Medi-Cal along with Medicare would have covered the cost to put him in a long term care facility. I felt by taking care of him in his later years I was paying him back for all of the years he took care of me while I was growing up.
I guess the moral to my story is if you have family members with the resources to take care of you, LTC insurance may not be needed.
For my DW and I we do have LTC insurance because we never had kids so there's only nieces and nephews to look after us.
Second Chance said
08:21 AM May 27, 2015
The Bear II wrote:
My Dad began to show signs of Dementia at 80 years old. By 82 he required assistance with the daily routine. We brought him home to live with us after he had been in an assisted living facility for 2 years. The facility charged $3500 per month which was covered out of his savings & retirement. The majority of his medical costs were covered by his health benefits from the post office retirement.
He lived until nearly 95 years old. Based on his finances he would have qualified for Medi-Cal from the state of California. Medi-Cal along with Medicare would have covered the cost to put him in a long term care facility. I felt by taking care of him in his later years I was paying him back for all of the years he took care of me while I was growing up.
I guess the moral to my story is if you have family members with the resources to take care of you, LTC insurance may not be needed.
For my DW and I we do have LTC insurance because we never had kids so there's only nieces and nephews to look after us.
If only it were so, Larry. My late wife and I adopted two children who turned out to have serious psychiatric problems. I have very little contact with my son (who is what I call a "marginal citizen") and my daughter requires guidance and assistance and works in the fast food industry. It was a wonderful thing you did for your father - I admire you for it.
Rob
Talensnana said
08:10 PM May 28, 2015
I personally am a firm believer in Long term care insurance. My dad did not have it but he got it for my mom after he got sick with Parkinson's. My mom later developed Alzheimer's. My parents both ended up going into Assisted Living and then a Full-care Living place. It was over $4000 a month and for a period of time we had to have them seperated, so it was $8000 a month. LTC Insurance was a godsend. They ended up being in facilities for 6 years! passing at 72 and 75. Even with the long term insurance they ended up using their savings up and getting on state aid prior to their passing. After is happened my husband and I got long term care ins. He got lifetime for me as my sister died of early onset Alzheimer's in her 50's and my parents health problems. For himself he got a 3 year policy.
I have seen friends families devastated from the responsibility of caring for family who should be in a facility but can't afford to. I did not want to put that burden on my kids. This way I can be taken care of and they can made memories visiting me.
Although they were in assisted and skilled living I still played a huge part in their care. As a child who cared for her parents a sister and a mother in law at the same time I can tell you it will take a toll on your health. I have told my children I Do Not want them or my husband to care for me fulltime if I am diagnosed with Dementia or Alzheimers. With Long term care I know I can make sure I receive the care I need without being a financial burden to my children. I would hate to use up our retirement to care for me and create a hardship for my husband.
To me the cost a year is less than 15 days in a facility. Definetely worth every penny.
-- Edited by Talensnana on Thursday 28th of May 2015 08:22:06 PM
NJTroy said
10:01 PM May 28, 2015
Having been the one who was responsible for caring for my parents in their last years, I strongly believe that unless you have income sufficient to cover a nursing home/memory care unit's costs you need LTC. It's just not practical to rely on your children to care for you. There is no way to know what their situation will be at the time when you need assistance. There is no way I would want to put my children in the position of having to make a choice between caring for me or supporting their family.
I loved my parents and I won't go through the whole story, but the lack of planning for the time when they could no longer care for themselves made things nearly impossible to manage and our last time together was much less happy than I would have wished as a result.
-- Edited by NJTroy on Thursday 28th of May 2015 10:02:46 PM
Jake62 said
03:49 AM May 29, 2015
We do not carry LTC but did research this product thru various insurance companies, one of which was USAA who I do trust. However, based on the premiums they were going to charge and looking at the cost of a LTC facility for 3-5 years, I decided that "if" we ever needed LTC, we would self-fund.
We have very good health insurance and retirement funds, but the bigger reason is my side of the family has no record of ever staying in a LTC facility. My wife's side does have some health issues; however, I feel confident I would care for her, with the assistance of a drop-in nurse, if her health ever deteriorated to the point requiring her placement into a LTC facility.
We also have two wonderful children who I think would care for either one of us, although I would not want the burden on them to do so, which is why we have placed aside sufficient funds to ensure they never have to make that decision.
This is the same reason I dropped my disability insurance and life insurance a couple years ago after my kids were out of college, had jobs, and my wife retired. We no longer needed the protection of this insurance if she or I died (as opposed to my wife trying to raise our kids early in life with no retirement accounts if I died early), since we were at the point of having sufficient retirement pensions/accounts. I paid that insurance for 25-years, didn't get anything out of it, but it definitely furnished "peace-of-mind" for me knowing that if something happened to me, my wife and children would be taken care of.
Aurora Borealis said
07:12 AM May 31, 2015
An accountant I saw who was a part-owner of an Assisted Living facility said that often these policies are written in such a way that it is hard to get paid.
Does anyone know of what to make sure is included in the policy? Or whether it is possible to buy a policy at a better rate, such as from a Credit-Union or something?
Talensnana said
12:33 PM May 31, 2015
The company my parents, mother in law and now we have is bankers life. We never had any problem with them in establishing the necessity of care or getting paid. They were amazing during the whole process which for my parents was over 7 years. I would highly recommend them.
Aurora Borealis said
06:52 PM May 31, 2015
Thanks!
EBendana said
03:01 PM Oct 16, 2015
I was offered a policy 11 years ago when I was 45 and DH 47 via employer with John Han****...the premiums are only $99 month for both of us, for a face value of $350,000 coverage each...in FL, one benefit is that if you have a need where you deplete all your savings, to qualify for Medicaid, with LTC insurance you can keep assets totaling the amount of your policy and still qualify for Medicaid. have more dignity and extras...also,my policy has a return of premium feature if cancelled prior to age 70, my thinking was with this in place I Could retire earlier with a smaller nest egg...just my two cents! I get to keep this in retirement, and I thinks its money well spent
SuzieQ said
06:28 PM Oct 16, 2015
My mother was institutionalized with dementia for over 6 yrs. She got much better care at the ALF and skilled nursing facilities than hubby & I could have given her. My Dad was in skilled nursing for only 5 wks but it was over $300/day. Long term would break almost any family. We have LTC policies because of our family histories. Our families live forever but need lots of help the last 20-ish years of life.
Howard said
03:11 PM Oct 20, 2015
Though Rob asked this question several months ago, I thought I would throw in some information since the topic has been "revived".
Long term care insurance purchased through an employer and carried into retirement (or post-employment) can be quite valuable and a great safety net.
However, purchasing an individual policy these days comes with some cautions.
Consumer Reports reported back in 2012 that 10 of the largest 20 insurers discontinued long term care insurance in the prior five years. It's a financial loser for insurance companies, which means they have either 1) gotten out of the business, 2) started petitioning state insurance regulators for increased premiums on existing policies, or 3) are charging much higher premiums on new policies.
Most people believe that long-term care insurance provides coverage from the time it is needed until death, but that's not the case. While companies used to offer an "unlimited" benefit period, almost all of them have discontinued that option and most policies now only have coverage periods of three to five years. There are still a few companies that offer longer terms and even unlimited coverage periods, but the premiums are very high. So, lots of folks that have purchased long term insurance years ago may have much better benefits at much lower rates than folks buying now.
Also, the majority of policies do not have a provision that limits premium increases, so prices can go up significantly. It's possible that one could pay in to long term care insurance for twenty years, but then have premium increases that are simply unaffordable. One option is to reduce coverage (per day coverage or number of years of coverage) to reduce premiums. Another option is to let the policy go and give up all those years of payments. You could buy an "inflation protection" rider, but that could increase the premium 50 - 80% according to some sources.
It's a tough decision on whether or not to purchase yet another insurance product you hope you never need. There is no question that long term care can quickly wipe out savings and nest eggs, so it then becomes a math and risk problem.
Personally, my biggest resistance to long term insurance is:
1) Paying in for several years only to have the premiums become unaffordable and losing all that cash, and
2) Needing care for much longer than the current 3 - 5 year coverage terms in which case our assets could be wiped out even after paying in 20 - 30 years for coverage.
For us, I think self insurance is the way to go, but that takes disciplined investing of what we would pay in for premiums, and insurance companies are thriving on those of us that don't always have the necessary discipline and find it easier to pay a bill than pay ourselves. :)
All I'm suggesting is that Long Term Care Insurance today isn't what it used to be, and it's a tougher call for those buying individual policies now. If you can get a great deal through your employment and can carry that on to post-employment, I'd seriously recommend checking out the options.
SuzieQ said
05:54 PM Oct 20, 2015
That's why I got a 10 year pay and you're paid up for life policy. I've heard that MetLife is out of the LTC biz (at least in FL). I've got 4 yrs and hubby has 3 yrs. Both include 3% inflation riders. We'll be paid up for life in Feb 2016. Yeah!
(Now let's hope that MetLife honors it 30 yrs from now!)
Good morning or afternoon... depending on your time zone.
There are a lot of postings on the forum about RV, vehicle and health insurance (all important), but a search didn't turn up anything on long term care insurance. After seeing what my mother went through with my father (Lewy body dementia), my sister and her husband purchased long term care insurance. My wife and I applied for policies several years ago... I was accepted but, because of something in her health history, my wife was declined (and declined when we applied with another company late last year). I still carry my original policy and the premiums went up to $177/month this year.
Our financial adviser says to look at LTC insurance this way: you're not insuring your health or care; you're insuring your wealth. In essence, he says that you're paying the premiums so that, in the event that a high level of long term care is needed (skilled nursing facility, memory/Alzheimer's care unit, etc.) you don't have to exhaust your savings and investments to provide the care. At 62 I am very healthy and, except for my father, ancestors on both sides of the family have lived well into their mid-80s to mid-90s.
My question is this: do you have a personal view on the value of LTC insurance? I would like to hear some perspectives other than my sister and our one adviser. $2,100 a year sounds like a lot of money - but it isn't much when you consider the cost of health care these days...
Thanks!
Rob
Barb
He lived until nearly 95 years old. Based on his finances he would have qualified for Medi-Cal from the state of California. Medi-Cal along with Medicare would have covered the cost to put him in a long term care facility. I felt by taking care of him in his later years I was paying him back for all of the years he took care of me while I was growing up.
I guess the moral to my story is if you have family members with the resources to take care of you, LTC insurance may not be needed.
For my DW and I we do have LTC insurance because we never had kids so there's only nieces and nephews to look after us.
If only it were so, Larry. My late wife and I adopted two children who turned out to have serious psychiatric problems. I have very little contact with my son (who is what I call a "marginal citizen") and my daughter requires guidance and assistance and works in the fast food industry. It was a wonderful thing you did for your father - I admire you for it.
Rob
I personally am a firm believer in Long term care insurance. My dad did not have it but he got it for my mom after he got sick with Parkinson's. My mom later developed Alzheimer's. My parents both ended up going into Assisted Living and then a Full-care Living place. It was over $4000 a month and for a period of time we had to have them seperated, so it was $8000 a month. LTC Insurance was a godsend. They ended up being in facilities for 6 years! passing at 72 and 75. Even with the long term insurance they ended up using their savings up and getting on state aid prior to their passing. After is happened my husband and I got long term care ins. He got lifetime for me as my sister died of early onset Alzheimer's in her 50's and my parents health problems. For himself he got a 3 year policy.
I have seen friends families devastated from the responsibility of caring for family who should be in a facility but can't afford to. I did not want to put that burden on my kids. This way I can be taken care of and they can made memories visiting me.
Although they were in assisted and skilled living I still played a huge part in their care. As a child who cared for her parents a sister and a mother in law at the same time I can tell you it will take a toll on your health. I have told my children I Do Not want them or my husband to care for me fulltime if I am diagnosed with Dementia or Alzheimers. With Long term care I know I can make sure I receive the care I need without being a financial burden to my children. I would hate to use up our retirement to care for me and create a hardship for my husband.
To me the cost a year is less than 15 days in a facility. Definetely worth every penny.
-- Edited by Talensnana on Thursday 28th of May 2015 08:22:06 PM
Having been the one who was responsible for caring for my parents in their last years, I strongly believe that unless you have income sufficient to cover a nursing home/memory care unit's costs you need LTC. It's just not practical to rely on your children to care for you. There is no way to know what their situation will be at the time when you need assistance. There is no way I would want to put my children in the position of having to make a choice between caring for me or supporting their family.
I loved my parents and I won't go through the whole story, but the lack of planning for the time when they could no longer care for themselves made things nearly impossible to manage and our last time together was much less happy than I would have wished as a result.
-- Edited by NJTroy on Thursday 28th of May 2015 10:02:46 PM
We have very good health insurance and retirement funds, but the bigger reason is my side of the family has no record of ever staying in a LTC facility. My wife's side does have some health issues; however, I feel confident I would care for her, with the assistance of a drop-in nurse, if her health ever deteriorated to the point requiring her placement into a LTC facility.
We also have two wonderful children who I think would care for either one of us, although I would not want the burden on them to do so, which is why we have placed aside sufficient funds to ensure they never have to make that decision.
This is the same reason I dropped my disability insurance and life insurance a couple years ago after my kids were out of college, had jobs, and my wife retired. We no longer needed the protection of this insurance if she or I died (as opposed to my wife trying to raise our kids early in life with no retirement accounts if I died early), since we were at the point of having sufficient retirement pensions/accounts. I paid that insurance for 25-years, didn't get anything out of it, but it definitely furnished "peace-of-mind" for me knowing that if something happened to me, my wife and children would be taken care of.
Though Rob asked this question several months ago, I thought I would throw in some information since the topic has been "revived".
Long term care insurance purchased through an employer and carried into retirement (or post-employment) can be quite valuable and a great safety net.
However, purchasing an individual policy these days comes with some cautions.
Consumer Reports reported back in 2012 that 10 of the largest 20 insurers discontinued long term care insurance in the prior five years. It's a financial loser for insurance companies, which means they have either 1) gotten out of the business, 2) started petitioning state insurance regulators for increased premiums on existing policies, or 3) are charging much higher premiums on new policies.
Most people believe that long-term care insurance provides coverage from the time it is needed until death, but that's not the case. While companies used to offer an "unlimited" benefit period, almost all of them have discontinued that option and most policies now only have coverage periods of three to five years. There are still a few companies that offer longer terms and even unlimited coverage periods, but the premiums are very high. So, lots of folks that have purchased long term insurance years ago may have much better benefits at much lower rates than folks buying now.
Also, the majority of policies do not have a provision that limits premium increases, so prices can go up significantly. It's possible that one could pay in to long term care insurance for twenty years, but then have premium increases that are simply unaffordable. One option is to reduce coverage (per day coverage or number of years of coverage) to reduce premiums. Another option is to let the policy go and give up all those years of payments. You could buy an "inflation protection" rider, but that could increase the premium 50 - 80% according to some sources.
It's a tough decision on whether or not to purchase yet another insurance product you hope you never need. There is no question that long term care can quickly wipe out savings and nest eggs, so it then becomes a math and risk problem.
Personally, my biggest resistance to long term insurance is:
1) Paying in for several years only to have the premiums become unaffordable and losing all that cash, and
2) Needing care for much longer than the current 3 - 5 year coverage terms in which case our assets could be wiped out even after paying in 20 - 30 years for coverage.
For us, I think self insurance is the way to go, but that takes disciplined investing of what we would pay in for premiums, and insurance companies are thriving on those of us that don't always have the necessary discipline and find it easier to pay a bill than pay ourselves. :)
All I'm suggesting is that Long Term Care Insurance today isn't what it used to be, and it's a tougher call for those buying individual policies now. If you can get a great deal through your employment and can carry that on to post-employment, I'd seriously recommend checking out the options.
(Now let's hope that MetLife honors it 30 yrs from now!)