We are planning to start full-timing early next Spring (2016). It will be me, my husband (we are in our late 20's) and our 2 dogs (one 20 lbs, one 75 lbs). Our dogs are older and very will behaved. We are set on a used fifth-wheel to haul with our Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel Dually. We have researched tons and read many books about full-timing so we are prepared to jump in!
We have a few concerns/questions about purchasing our first rv, a used fifth-wheel for full-timing. We don't need anything luxurious or big. A rig under 35' and under $20,000 would be perfect and no more than 10 years old. We are wanting a good quailty, reliable fifth-wheel. Our needs are booth seating (can build one into the rig if needed), more counterspace in kitchen, lots of storage (for gear), room for a king size would be a plus, and that's about it! As I stated before, we aren't very picky, just need a good quailty rv to start with.
Can you help steer us in the direction as far as what to look for, manufacturers? Also any good years that don't have as many flaws?
I really like the Forest River Cardinal, Wildcat & Cedar Creek models (also found a Surveyor we like), the Keystone Montana & Cougar, Heartland Elkridge, NuWa Hitchhiker, Sunnybrook, and Jayco Designer.
The problem is I've read really good and really terrible things about most of them! It doesn't make for a confident purchase. As far as small repairs and regular touch-ups on these older used models, that's no issue since my husband is in construction and can fix most anything. We will be full-timers but won't be on the road constantly as my husband works welding jobs here and there, but we will be living in the rig. We have no set schedule and want to take our time and enjoy ourselves.
Also, we are planning to only use this fifth wheel for a year or two and then upgrade to either a GM 4106 bus conversion or newer fifth-wheel.
Any comments are helpful, thank you!!!
The Lockharts
Terry and Jo said
09:46 PM Apr 8, 2015
Siera,
First of all, I'd say to check into what weight capacity your 2500 Dodge has. I really have some doubts that it would safely handle many, if any, fifth wheels that are 35' long. If there were some that were light enough for that size truck, the trailer may be of such light construction that it wouldn't be too good, even as a trade-in for another RV. Some of those brands that you named off would definitely be too heavy.
We used to have a Ford F250, which is also a 3/4-ton truck like the 2500 Dodge, and it was OK for safely handling our previous RV, a 26-foot fifth wheel.
Good luck with your research and planning.
Terry
A-S Travelers said
06:03 AM Apr 9, 2015
Ditto for the towing capacity of a 3/4 truck.
About the 5th wheel. Hitchhiker by NuWa is a good quality 5'er. I don't know what part of the country you are in, but PPL Motorhomes in Houston has a good selection of 5'ers.
I have no financial interest in either PPL or any of the RV's for sale there.
DenJen12 said
12:10 PM Apr 9, 2015
Have you ever looked at Open Range? Well actually it's Highland Ridge now since the merger with Jayco, but the Open Range lines still go by the same name. We have their 3X line which is amazing for full time but a bit over your price point and tow capacity. They have a Light line as well as Roamer and Mesa Ridge that may be suitable for your needs. They are a great company to deal with IMHO.
As far as the conflicting results in good/bad, you will have that with every company. Just narrow down to ones you think are more up your alley and do some specific research on those. Look into how they build them, how the company handles their customers, etc. You can tell a lot about a product by how the company stands behind them. Again, all my opinion though.
I will agree with the others when I say that you may be even more limited than you first thought given the tow capacity of your truck. I would definitely start there.
Good luck on your search.
Judy L said
01:37 PM Apr 9, 2015
We pulled our 2003 31.5 HitchHiker DA (GVWR was 14,100) with a 2003 2500 Dodge Ram. The HitchHiker was a great trailer but when we decided to go full time we (I) wanted a washer/dryer and a larger fridge so we moved on. If you decide to consider a HitchHiker, their owners forum is a huge help. They are still very active and there is a wealth of knowledge in their archives as well as many knowledgable people that always seem willing to help. Another plus is that even though they no longer manufacture HH's, the NuWa service center is still in operation and has a great reputation. That said, they are heavy trailers and I don't think that a 2500 would safely handle a 35' model. You can check out HH weights on the NuWa website under the Archives tab. It includes floor plans and specs for all models back to 2002 and specs back to 1999.
Good luck with your search!
Sushidog said
01:43 PM Apr 9, 2015
I've never heard of a 2500 dually. Did you have one specially constructed, or do you mean 3500 dually?
Chip
sflockhart said
02:32 PM Apr 9, 2015
Thanks for all the great info!
I'm getting a list together of several different makes and models to look at. I've also added, Holiday Rambler, Heartland, Dutchman Denali, Fleetwood, Monaco, Carriage Cameo and Crossroads Cruisers to the list. Also found a few Alpenlite Hillcrest that fit my requirements. If anyone has anything positive or negative about any of these please feel free to speak your mind. We assume that the more we see and examine the better we will have an idea on what's built cheaper and isn't as sturdy. My husband (as mentioned before is in home construction), knows shoddy work and loves for things to be built solid. I'm hoping he'll be my structure and soundness guide while I'll do my womanly thing and only pay attention to the layouts and cosmetic stuff!
Sorry for the confusion, my husband's truck is a 2007 Dodge Ram 3500 Dually Quadcab (I was wrong, had to ask him). We are looking in the 26'-33' range, not going over 33'.
Once we find one that fits us we are thinking about stripping it out cosmetically and installing laminate flooring, painting and new/or reupholster furniture.
We have been planning this for almost a year and can't believe its here! We are so excited. Also, another question...we are planning to still go hiking/backpacking for weekends at a time or for a week long at the most, is it safe to leave the rig in RV parks unattended? If not, we make our trips short. I'm very paranoid about people stealing our stuff.
Also, we are in the south GA area, TX is a bit far.
As far as purchasing, has anyone had negative experiences buying from a private seller? I've been looking at new/used RV lots but find lots of one owner, well maintained fifth wheels for sale by private owners.
Thanks again!
manycats said
06:31 PM Apr 9, 2015
We bought our 5th wheel from a private seller who didn't have a truck capable of pulling it. Every appliance works perfectly, upholstery, curtains, etc. look as if nobody ever used the rig. We have found some dry rot under window corners but my DH, like yours, is an expert remodeler of houses and RVs and is repairing those spots. Many private sellers can't travel anymore and you can get almost pristine units at half the price you would pay a dealer. Just inspect and test everything in the unit before you pay for it. You're buying "as is" with no warranties and no dealer support.
As to thieves, they're everywhere and there's no way to be completely protected. I've even chased a burglar at my own front door when he was leaving with a sack of loot, and, had an RV broken into by two elementary school kids. Actually, there's more safety in an RV park with people walking around all the time than in your own neighborhood where everyone is indoors watching TV.
EggerMar said
06:54 PM Apr 9, 2015
Had a Forest River Cardinal 5th wheel prior to the Class A we have now. Stay away from the 2013's as there is some kind of instability problem and the 5er wobbles left to right (almost cartoonish)like its top heavy as it goes down the road. Great inside though. Tons of storage.
Through our many travels the 5th wheel we see most often is the Montana. Have seen that it's the number 1 selling 5th wheel. Sure seems that way as there's always multiple Montana's in every park we stay at all across the country.
Good Luck,
Marilyn & Gene
Curtis and Rhandi said
08:23 AM Apr 23, 2015
If I personally were looking specifically at used, I would go with the Carriage Camio - they were so ahead of their time in details, layout, etc. They are heavy - but sounds like your truck can handle that. They are also hard to find for under $40-thousand. But going through them - I would buy one in a heart beat if I wanted to buy used!
Second Chance said
10:06 AM Apr 23, 2015
Siera,
Some good advice above. I would add couple of things... the Surveyor line by Forest River is "mid-quality" (we like our Surveyor travel trailer), but they're not full-time rigs. The holding tanks are strip-heated rather than having a fully insulated and ducted underbelly. We've had some freezing problems with ours when the temps have gotten into the 20s. I see by your profile that you're in Georgia now, but you may plan travels to other, colder climates (and things can get plenty cold in north GA, too!). Overall insulation is also important for a full-time rig - really helps with energy expenses (and comfort) in both hot and cold weather. As for kitchens, some of the Montanas in the last 10 years have a U-shaped kitchen that offers good counter space and cabinet storage above.
You didn't say if you planned on much boon-docking or not, but other things to consider (if you do boon-dock without utility connections) are holding tank capacity (grey water capacity is often the limiting factor) and battery/solar/generator configuration. You will only be able to run A/C during hot weather if you're hooked up to shore power or have a generator.
I'll address two last things and then shut up. Refrigerator capacity is important to my wife and me. When we move up to a fifth wheel for full-timing, we'll be looking for one with a four-door frig/freezer and a full pantry. The last thing is the king bed. Perhaps you (like our veterinarian son) like to have the dogs in bed with you and thus want the larger bed. Having been in units with both kings and queens in a front bedroom, I can tell you that there is much less maneuvering space in a bedroom with a king bed.
Good luck with your search and new adventures.
Rob
Curtis and Rhandi said
11:10 AM Apr 23, 2015
Oh I totally agree with the above statement about the fridge. Which is one of the reasons I'm kind of staying away from used at this point. I want a full size residential or apartment size - either will be great. Most important thing - write down the things you think you want to have, then do research on them with other full-timers and see what they have to say about them. In the beginning we thought we HAD to have a washer/dryer - then after much chatting with other full timers, we decided this was not major high on our priority list. Other things were more important to us. Good luck! Excited for you!
Terry and Jo said
06:31 PM Apr 23, 2015
Curtis and Rhandi,
You might also consider a used DRV Suites model. They are a full four season coach with both the Mobile Suites and Elite Suites having 3 1/4" walls and extra insulation. They are a heavier unit, but the Elite and Mobile Suites are on 15" frames. They are a step above the Carriage Cameo, plus DRV Suites are still in business.
Just for grins and giggles, check out the link below to Rolling Retreats in Elk City, Oklahoma. That is a mom and pop dealership with a good reputation and right now, they have a few used models on their website. At least one of them has a residential refrigerator. If you have any questions about the DRV Suites models, Jo and I own one along with a few others on RV Dreams, so you can either ask us or call Alicia at Rolling Retreats and she will gladly show you good customer service.
Alicia and Slade have sold DRV units, both new and used, to folks from California to New York.
EDIT: I just looked at their pre-owned models, and they even have a Carriage Cameo in stock at Rolling Retreats. And, for under $40,000.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Thursday 23rd of April 2015 06:33:44 PM
kb0zke said
07:05 PM Apr 26, 2015
Buying a used coach is pretty common, especially for a first-time buyer. Buying from a private party can be a great experience or a disaster. If the seller has owned and used the coach for some time they can give you great information. If the seller is the child of the (deceased) owner they may not even know who made the coach, much less anything about it. Sometimes a seller needs to get the coach gone and price isn't an issue. Other times the seller may well owe more than what the coach is worth and the asking price is too high.
A dealership or consignment lot may or may not know much about the coach, either, but they also have a reputation to consider. With the Internet, it is easy to complain to the entire world about any perceived slight. The dealership has little, if any, way to rebut those claims. The dealership, though, is generally in a better position to properly price a coach and will usually have service facilities. They may provide a brief, limited warranty.
As for what coach to get, well, only you can make that decision. Towables are generally picked when the owners intend to spend a fair amount of time in one place, whereas a MH is generally chosen when the owner moves fairly frequently. Generally, buying an older, higher quality coach is preferable to buying a newer, lower quality coach. Quality, though, is heavier. Since this is going to be a "learner" coach for you, you may get by with some of the coaches you mentioned. I don't know about most of them, but I do know that Heartland considers only the Landmark, Bighorn, and Big Country as full-time coaches.
I'd suggest that you get the real numbers for your truck. Get it weighed with full fuel, loaded for travel, both of you and the dogs, etc. Get the weights for each axle. Compare those real numbers to what the axle ratings are. Also get the Gross Combined Weight Rating for your truck. Subtract the actual weight of the truck ready to travel, and you have the gross weight for your trailer. For example, if the GCWR of the truck is 23,000 pounds and the truck weighs 8000 pounds ready to travel, you can haul no more than 15,000 pounds. The pin weight of a 5'er is generally 20-25% of the weight of the trailer, and that weight goes right on the rear axle. Make sure that you don't exceed any weight limit.
cheryls-other-half said
08:11 AM Apr 27, 2015
Mitch snips (again)
sflockhart wrote:
...snip...planning to start full-timing early next Spring (2016).
..snip...It will be me, my husband (we are in our late 20's) and our 2 dogs (one 20 lbs, one 75 lbs). Our dogs are older and very will behaved.
...We are set on a used fifth-wheel to haul with our Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel Dually.
I always say, Better too BIG a rig, then TOO small a rig.
Your rear seat (you do have a back seat, (club cab?) I hope? will be for your dog crates. you don't/can't carry them in the 5er.
Is your 2500 set up for towing? what are the weight capacities?
What about braking packages?
*** end of alarms.. Read more detailed stuff elsewhere.. ***
Please seriously consider if a different or larger truck may be better.
We have a few concerns/questions about purchasing our first rv, a used fifth-wheel for full-timing. We don't need anything luxurious or big. A rig under 35' and under $20,000 would be perfect and no more than 10 years old. We are wanting a good quailty, reliable fifth-wheel. Our needs are booth seating (can build one into the rig if needed), more counterspace in kitchen, lots of storage (for gear), room for a king size would be a plus, and that's about it! As I stated before, we aren't very picky, just need a good quailty rv to start with.
Can you help steer us in the direction as far as what to look for, manufacturers? Also any good years that don't have as many flaws?
I really like the Forest River Cardinal, Wildcat & Cedar Creek models (also found a Surveyor we like), the Keystone Montana & Cougar, Heartland Elkridge, NuWa Hitchhiker, Sunnybrook, and Jayco Designer.
The problem is I've read really good and really terrible things about most of them! It doesn't make for a confident purchase. As far as small repairs and regular touch-ups on these older used models, that's no issue since my husband is in construction and can fix most anything. We will be full-timers but won't be on the road constantly as my husband works welding jobs here and there, but we will be living in the rig. We have no set schedule and want to take our time and enjoy ourselves.
Also, we are planning to only use this fifth wheel for a year or two and then upgrade to either a GM 4106 bus conversion or newer fifth-wheel.
We are planning to start full-timing early next Spring (2016). It will be me, my husband (we are in our late 20's) and our 2 dogs (one 20 lbs, one 75 lbs). Our dogs are older and very will behaved. We are set on a used fifth-wheel to haul with our Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel Dually. We have researched tons and read many books about full-timing so we are prepared to jump in!
We have a few concerns/questions about purchasing our first rv, a used fifth-wheel for full-timing. We don't need anything luxurious or big. A rig under 35' and under $20,000 would be perfect and no more than 10 years old. We are wanting a good quailty, reliable fifth-wheel. Our needs are booth seating (can build one into the rig if needed), more counterspace in kitchen, lots of storage (for gear), room for a king size would be a plus, and that's about it! As I stated before, we aren't very picky, just need a good quailty rv to start with.
Can you help steer us in the direction as far as what to look for, manufacturers? Also any good years that don't have as many flaws?
I really like the Forest River Cardinal, Wildcat & Cedar Creek models (also found a Surveyor we like), the Keystone Montana & Cougar, Heartland Elkridge, NuWa Hitchhiker, Sunnybrook, and Jayco Designer.
The problem is I've read really good and really terrible things about most of them! It doesn't make for a confident purchase. As far as small repairs and regular touch-ups on these older used models, that's no issue since my husband is in construction and can fix most anything. We will be full-timers but won't be on the road constantly as my husband works welding jobs here and there, but we will be living in the rig. We have no set schedule and want to take our time and enjoy ourselves.
Also, we are planning to only use this fifth wheel for a year or two and then upgrade to either a GM 4106 bus conversion or newer fifth-wheel.
Any comments are helpful, thank you!!!
The Lockharts
Siera,
First of all, I'd say to check into what weight capacity your 2500 Dodge has. I really have some doubts that it would safely handle many, if any, fifth wheels that are 35' long. If there were some that were light enough for that size truck, the trailer may be of such light construction that it wouldn't be too good, even as a trade-in for another RV. Some of those brands that you named off would definitely be too heavy.
We used to have a Ford F250, which is also a 3/4-ton truck like the 2500 Dodge, and it was OK for safely handling our previous RV, a 26-foot fifth wheel.
Good luck with your research and planning.
Terry
Ditto for the towing capacity of a 3/4 truck.
About the 5th wheel. Hitchhiker by NuWa is a good quality 5'er. I don't know what part of the country you are in, but PPL Motorhomes in Houston has a good selection of 5'ers.
Here are 3 Hitchhikers in the $20K-$30K range
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/5thwheel/2008-Hitchhiker-Discover-America-28269.htm
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/5thwheel/2006-Hitchhiker-Premier-By-Nu-Wa-27293.htm
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/5thwheel/2006-Hitchhiker-Premier-By-Nu-Wa-28997.htm
I have no financial interest in either PPL or any of the RV's for sale there.
As far as the conflicting results in good/bad, you will have that with every company. Just narrow down to ones you think are more up your alley and do some specific research on those. Look into how they build them, how the company handles their customers, etc. You can tell a lot about a product by how the company stands behind them. Again, all my opinion though.
I will agree with the others when I say that you may be even more limited than you first thought given the tow capacity of your truck. I would definitely start there.
Good luck on your search.
We pulled our 2003 31.5 HitchHiker DA (GVWR was 14,100) with a 2003 2500 Dodge Ram. The HitchHiker was a great trailer but when we decided to go full time we (I) wanted a washer/dryer and a larger fridge so we moved on. If you decide to consider a HitchHiker, their owners forum is a huge help. They are still very active and there is a wealth of knowledge in their archives as well as many knowledgable people that always seem willing to help. Another plus is that even though they no longer manufacture HH's, the NuWa service center is still in operation and has a great reputation. That said, they are heavy trailers and I don't think that a 2500 would safely handle a 35' model. You can check out HH weights on the NuWa website under the Archives tab. It includes floor plans and specs for all models back to 2002 and specs back to 1999.
Good luck with your search!
Chip
I'm getting a list together of several different makes and models to look at. I've also added, Holiday Rambler, Heartland, Dutchman Denali, Fleetwood, Monaco, Carriage Cameo and Crossroads Cruisers to the list. Also found a few Alpenlite Hillcrest that fit my requirements. If anyone has anything positive or negative about any of these please feel free to speak your mind. We assume that the more we see and examine the better we will have an idea on what's built cheaper and isn't as sturdy. My husband (as mentioned before is in home construction), knows shoddy work and loves for things to be built solid. I'm hoping he'll be my structure and soundness guide while I'll do my womanly thing and only pay attention to the layouts and cosmetic stuff!
Sorry for the confusion, my husband's truck is a 2007 Dodge Ram 3500 Dually Quadcab (I was wrong, had to ask him). We are looking in the 26'-33' range, not going over 33'.
Once we find one that fits us we are thinking about stripping it out cosmetically and installing laminate flooring, painting and new/or reupholster furniture.
We have been planning this for almost a year and can't believe its here! We are so excited. Also, another question...we are planning to still go hiking/backpacking for weekends at a time or for a week long at the most, is it safe to leave the rig in RV parks unattended? If not, we make our trips short. I'm very paranoid about people stealing our stuff.
Also, we are in the south GA area, TX is a bit far.
As far as purchasing, has anyone had negative experiences buying from a private seller? I've been looking at new/used RV lots but find lots of one owner, well maintained fifth wheels for sale by private owners.
Thanks again!
As to thieves, they're everywhere and there's no way to be completely protected. I've even chased a burglar at my own front door when he was leaving with a sack of loot, and, had an RV broken into by two elementary school kids. Actually, there's more safety in an RV park with people walking around all the time than in your own neighborhood where everyone is indoors watching TV.
Had a Forest River Cardinal 5th wheel prior to the Class A we have now. Stay away from the 2013's as there is some kind of instability problem and the 5er wobbles left to right (almost cartoonish)like its top heavy as it goes down the road. Great inside though. Tons of storage.
Through our many travels the 5th wheel we see most often is the Montana. Have seen that it's the number 1 selling 5th wheel. Sure seems that way as there's always multiple Montana's in every park we stay at all across the country.
Good Luck,
Marilyn & Gene
Some good advice above. I would add couple of things... the Surveyor line by Forest River is "mid-quality" (we like our Surveyor travel trailer), but they're not full-time rigs. The holding tanks are strip-heated rather than having a fully insulated and ducted underbelly. We've had some freezing problems with ours when the temps have gotten into the 20s. I see by your profile that you're in Georgia now, but you may plan travels to other, colder climates (and things can get plenty cold in north GA, too!). Overall insulation is also important for a full-time rig - really helps with energy expenses (and comfort) in both hot and cold weather. As for kitchens, some of the Montanas in the last 10 years have a U-shaped kitchen that offers good counter space and cabinet storage above.
You didn't say if you planned on much boon-docking or not, but other things to consider (if you do boon-dock without utility connections) are holding tank capacity (grey water capacity is often the limiting factor) and battery/solar/generator configuration. You will only be able to run A/C during hot weather if you're hooked up to shore power or have a generator.
I'll address two last things and then shut up. Refrigerator capacity is important to my wife and me. When we move up to a fifth wheel for full-timing, we'll be looking for one with a four-door frig/freezer and a full pantry. The last thing is the king bed. Perhaps you (like our veterinarian son) like to have the dogs in bed with you and thus want the larger bed. Having been in units with both kings and queens in a front bedroom, I can tell you that there is much less maneuvering space in a bedroom with a king bed.
Good luck with your search and new adventures.
Rob
Curtis and Rhandi,
You might also consider a used DRV Suites model. They are a full four season coach with both the Mobile Suites and Elite Suites having 3 1/4" walls and extra insulation. They are a heavier unit, but the Elite and Mobile Suites are on 15" frames. They are a step above the Carriage Cameo, plus DRV Suites are still in business.
Just for grins and giggles, check out the link below to Rolling Retreats in Elk City, Oklahoma. That is a mom and pop dealership with a good reputation and right now, they have a few used models on their website. At least one of them has a residential refrigerator. If you have any questions about the DRV Suites models, Jo and I own one along with a few others on RV Dreams, so you can either ask us or call Alicia at Rolling Retreats and she will gladly show you good customer service.
Alicia and Slade have sold DRV units, both new and used, to folks from California to New York.
Rolling Retreats (Check the "Pre-Owned" tab at the website.)
EDIT: I just looked at their pre-owned models, and they even have a Carriage Cameo in stock at Rolling Retreats. And, for under $40,000.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Thursday 23rd of April 2015 06:33:44 PM
A dealership or consignment lot may or may not know much about the coach, either, but they also have a reputation to consider. With the Internet, it is easy to complain to the entire world about any perceived slight. The dealership has little, if any, way to rebut those claims. The dealership, though, is generally in a better position to properly price a coach and will usually have service facilities. They may provide a brief, limited warranty.
As for what coach to get, well, only you can make that decision. Towables are generally picked when the owners intend to spend a fair amount of time in one place, whereas a MH is generally chosen when the owner moves fairly frequently. Generally, buying an older, higher quality coach is preferable to buying a newer, lower quality coach. Quality, though, is heavier. Since this is going to be a "learner" coach for you, you may get by with some of the coaches you mentioned. I don't know about most of them, but I do know that Heartland considers only the Landmark, Bighorn, and Big Country as full-time coaches.
I'd suggest that you get the real numbers for your truck. Get it weighed with full fuel, loaded for travel, both of you and the dogs, etc. Get the weights for each axle. Compare those real numbers to what the axle ratings are. Also get the Gross Combined Weight Rating for your truck. Subtract the actual weight of the truck ready to travel, and you have the gross weight for your trailer. For example, if the GCWR of the truck is 23,000 pounds and the truck weighs 8000 pounds ready to travel, you can haul no more than 15,000 pounds. The pin weight of a 5'er is generally 20-25% of the weight of the trailer, and that weight goes right on the rear axle. Make sure that you don't exceed any weight limit.