Front Bathroom Fifth wheel question for the engineers...
BiggarView said
09:43 AM Mar 18, 2015
We have looked at the "new" Front Bathroom models in several lines of RVs. It occurs to me that the FW, GW & BW tanks for these appear to be positioned in the forward part of some models. Would this design be a cause for higher pin weights or lower basement loading potential? I'm assuming that GW & BW would be dumped prior to hooking up and moving the rig, as well as most of the FW unless boondocking was the next stop. Still, there is the bulk and weight of the actual tanks in a forward location to contend with. Any thoughts on this possible "issue". Those you out there that have one of these types of floorplans/rigs, any experiences you can enlighten me/us with in this area.
Cowdog353 said
12:43 PM Mar 18, 2015
Never owned one of that type, but I would think that unless all the bathroom,kitchen, and other sinks and the like are "upstairs", then all or most of the tanks must be "downstairs". Just my opinion.
If in fact some are located "upstairs" then it would raise the pin weight a considerable amount.
Jim
Terry and Jo said
07:05 PM Mar 18, 2015
Just a thought for you, based on the experience we have with ours. Our bathroom is just in front of the kitchen/entry door area of our coach. As it is arranged, the black tank is directly below the toilet, so when we flush, it goes straight down and into the black tank. When getting near full, a flashlight allows me to see just how close the level of the liquids in the tank are to the toilet "drop pipe." Dang little chance of over flow, and absolutely no issue with a stopped up line from a toilet in another area to the tank.
Terry
HighwayRanger said
10:00 PM Mar 18, 2015
You made me think about this question, since we are looking at a front-bath Lifestyle 39FB model. Surprisingly, the listed pin weight for the 39FB is 329lbs lighter than the slightly shorter 38RS, which isn't a front bath model. If I'm not mistaken, the tube from the front bath toilet goes aft and down to the lower level black tank location. Not sure about the gray tank location. The other oddity between these two models is that the black and gray tanks are much larger on the 39FB over the 38RS. I think I'd rather have the 38RS, but the tank size is a big turnoff.
Roy
BiggarView said
05:06 AM Mar 19, 2015
Roy, the Lifestyle line is one of our current top picks, we plan a tour of the factory, along with DRV and couple of others this year (we're only 2 1/2 hours away). I'll be paying attention to such technical/engineering points among other details. I was puzzled about the lighter pin on the 39FB also, but the BW & GW tank location further aft could be part of the explanation, perhaps there is more weight in the rear of the trailer to offset also. The 38RS was in front of the 39FB until we started to consider the 1/2 bath as a pantry/storage room instead. Jury is still out.
Brian
-- Edited by biggaRView on Thursday 19th of March 2015 05:06:56 AM
Bill and Linda said
09:56 AM Mar 19, 2015
biggaRView wrote:
We have looked at the "new" Front Bathroom models in several lines of RVs. It occurs to me that the FW, GW & BW tanks for these appear to be positioned in the forward part of some models. Would this design be a cause for higher pin weights or lower basement loading potential? I'm assuming that GW & BW would be dumped prior to hooking up and moving the rig, as well as most of the FW unless boondocking was the next stop. Still, there is the bulk and weight of the actual tanks in a forward location to contend with. Any thoughts on this possible "issue". Those you out there that have one of these types of floorplans/rigs, any experiences you can enlighten me/us with in this area.
Brain:
This is an “in general” comment to the general assumption: “I'm assuming that GW & BW would be dumped prior to hooking up and moving the rig, as well as most of the FW unless boondocking was the next stop.”
Don’t count on it – including the dumping of the fresh water tank.We run into a lot of situations, other than boondocking, that require us to “tanker water” in all tanks. That is carry fresh, grey and black between sites.Sometime it just is necessary for various reasons including always having enough fresh water to get by if there is a fresh water issue at the next stop.(Been there many times.) So from an “engineering perspective” I wouldn’t plan on always being able to travel with mostly empty tanks.
The fresh water tank should always be over the axles, IMO.After that, each rig is different.Some even have two gray water tanks.“It depends” and naturally the further forward the BW / GW tanks the more pin weight.But that’s where a lot of them have to go due to space.
I personally wouldn’t have a black tank anywhere but right under the toilet.Some rigs use macerators to get around long black water lines.But I wouldn’t do that. A major issue if, make that when, the macerator pump goes bad.I would call it “mission critical” and a critical point of failure I wouldn’t want.But that’s just the “engineer” in my genes.
Bill
BiggarView said
12:17 PM Mar 19, 2015
Thanks for the useful comments Bill. When we hit the road, we'll some kind of experts!.... NOT!
Bill and Linda said
01:21 PM Mar 19, 2015
biggaRView wrote:
Roy, the Lifestyle line is one of our current top picks, we plan a tour of the factory, along with DRV and couple of others this year (we're only 2 1/2 hours away). I'll be paying attention to such technical/engineering points among other details. I was puzzled about the lighter pin on the 39FB also, but the BW & GW tank location further aft could be part of the explanation, perhaps there is more weight in the rear of the trailer to offset also. The 38RS was in front of the 39FB until we started to consider the 1/2 bath as a pantry/storage room instead. Jury is still out.
Brian
-- Edited by biggaRView on Thursday 19th of March 2015 05:06:56 AM
Brian:
I should have commented FWIW – It has been my experience few manufactures give the published pin or dry weight with any water in the BW or GW tank.Many give the published – not the placard - dry weight without any fresh water either or make a note as to the conditions of the weight. The published dry weight is supposed to include full LP tanks as you can’t “off load” LP like you can fresh water.I.e. you can’t get rid of it by draining the LP tanks “at will” and thereby reducing weight – so it should be included. IMO this published dry weight means very little as it seldom includes options in the generic marketing stuff.I’d just keep that in mind. I’m sure you know how much weight you can add with awnings, generators, batteries and air conditioners to name a few. Sometimes not even the furniture - if its an option - will be included in the marketing material.
Regardless, the only numbers that matter are the ones on each individual coach when delivered – the ones on the placard.The rules now say they must weigh each coach as is when manufactured and that is what goes on the sticker.I was there when we took our “virgin” rig to the scale for its official dry weighing prior to delivery.Kind of rare to get to do that.
Bill
HighwayRanger said
08:43 PM Mar 19, 2015
biggaRView wrote:
Roy, the Lifestyle line is one of our current top picks, we plan a tour of the factory, along with DRV and couple of others this year (we're only 2 1/2 hours away). I'll be paying attention to such technical/engineering points among other details. I was puzzled about the lighter pin on the 39FB also, but the BW & GW tank location further aft could be part of the explanation, perhaps there is more weight in the rear of the trailer to offset also. The 38RS was in front of the 39FB until we started to consider the 1/2 bath as a pantry/storage room instead. Jury is still out.
Brian
-- Edited by biggaRView on Thursday 19th of March 2015 05:06:56 AM
That's funny, Brian. We, too, are looking at deleting the 1/2 bath toilet and vanity/sink, so we can have a walk-in pantry instead. I contacted Lifestyle through a dealer and they said that they are able/willing to delete the toilet and vanity. We would use it for pantry storage and for a chest freezer space. The difference in fluid tank size is considerable with the 39FB. If you want to chat, we can discuss all the optional stuff we will do with the Lifestyle if we choose that brand. I have researched these a ton, and have a list of options that we will select (and that Lifestyle offers.) If we don't go with the Lifestyle, we will bite the bullet and design a custom New Horizon's fifth wheel. None of the other brands make the cut for us.
Roy
flyone said
09:33 PM Mar 19, 2015
There are many factors that go into the pin weight, it can be adjusted (to a degree) by the placement of the axels. Perhaps they take the potential weight into account and move the axels as required to keep the pin weight within reason.
We have looked at the "new" Front Bathroom models in several lines of RVs. It occurs to me that the FW, GW & BW tanks for these appear to be positioned in the forward part of some models. Would this design be a cause for higher pin weights or lower basement loading potential? I'm assuming that GW & BW would be dumped prior to hooking up and moving the rig, as well as most of the FW unless boondocking was the next stop. Still, there is the bulk and weight of the actual tanks in a forward location to contend with. Any thoughts on this possible "issue". Those you out there that have one of these types of floorplans/rigs, any experiences you can enlighten me/us with in this area.
If in fact some are located "upstairs" then it would raise the pin weight a considerable amount.
Jim
Just a thought for you, based on the experience we have with ours. Our bathroom is just in front of the kitchen/entry door area of our coach. As it is arranged, the black tank is directly below the toilet, so when we flush, it goes straight down and into the black tank. When getting near full, a flashlight allows me to see just how close the level of the liquids in the tank are to the toilet "drop pipe." Dang little chance of over flow, and absolutely no issue with a stopped up line from a toilet in another area to the tank.
Terry
You made me think about this question, since we are looking at a front-bath Lifestyle 39FB model. Surprisingly, the listed pin weight for the 39FB is 329lbs lighter than the slightly shorter 38RS, which isn't a front bath model. If I'm not mistaken, the tube from the front bath toilet goes aft and down to the lower level black tank location. Not sure about the gray tank location. The other oddity between these two models is that the black and gray tanks are much larger on the 39FB over the 38RS. I think I'd rather have the 38RS, but the tank size is a big turnoff.
Roy
Roy, the Lifestyle line is one of our current top picks, we plan a tour of the factory, along with DRV and couple of others this year (we're only 2 1/2 hours away). I'll be paying attention to such technical/engineering points among other details. I was puzzled about the lighter pin on the 39FB also, but the BW & GW tank location further aft could be part of the explanation, perhaps there is more weight in the rear of the trailer to offset also. The 38RS was in front of the 39FB until we started to consider the 1/2 bath as a pantry/storage room instead. Jury is still out.
Brian
-- Edited by biggaRView on Thursday 19th of March 2015 05:06:56 AM
Brain:
This is an “in general” comment to the general assumption: “I'm assuming that GW & BW would be dumped prior to hooking up and moving the rig, as well as most of the FW unless boondocking was the next stop.”
Don’t count on it – including the dumping of the fresh water tank. We run into a lot of situations, other than boondocking, that require us to “tanker water” in all tanks. That is carry fresh, grey and black between sites. Sometime it just is necessary for various reasons including always having enough fresh water to get by if there is a fresh water issue at the next stop. (Been there many times.) So from an “engineering perspective” I wouldn’t plan on always being able to travel with mostly empty tanks.
The fresh water tank should always be over the axles, IMO. After that, each rig is different. Some even have two gray water tanks. “It depends” and naturally the further forward the BW / GW tanks the more pin weight. But that’s where a lot of them have to go due to space.
I personally wouldn’t have a black tank anywhere but right under the toilet. Some rigs use macerators to get around long black water lines. But I wouldn’t do that. A major issue if, make that when, the macerator pump goes bad. I would call it “mission critical” and a critical point of failure I wouldn’t want. But that’s just the “engineer” in my genes.
Bill
Thanks for the useful comments Bill. When we hit the road, we'll some kind of experts!
.... NOT!
Brian:
I should have commented FWIW – It has been my experience few manufactures give the published pin or dry weight with any water in the BW or GW tank. Many give the published – not the placard - dry weight without any fresh water either or make a note as to the conditions of the weight. The published dry weight is supposed to include full LP tanks as you can’t “off load” LP like you can fresh water. I.e. you can’t get rid of it by draining the LP tanks “at will” and thereby reducing weight – so it should be included. IMO this published dry weight means very little as it seldom includes options in the generic marketing stuff. I’d just keep that in mind. I’m sure you know how much weight you can add with awnings, generators, batteries and air conditioners to name a few. Sometimes not even the furniture - if its an option - will be included in the marketing material.
Regardless, the only numbers that matter are the ones on each individual coach when delivered – the ones on the placard. The rules now say they must weigh each coach as is when manufactured and that is what goes on the sticker. I was there when we took our “virgin” rig to the scale for its official dry weighing prior to delivery. Kind of rare to get to do that.
Bill
That's funny, Brian. We, too, are looking at deleting the 1/2 bath toilet and vanity/sink, so we can have a walk-in pantry instead. I contacted Lifestyle through a dealer and they said that they are able/willing to delete the toilet and vanity. We would use it for pantry storage and for a chest freezer space. The difference in fluid tank size is considerable with the 39FB. If you want to chat, we can discuss all the optional stuff we will do with the Lifestyle if we choose that brand. I have researched these a ton, and have a list of options that we will select (and that Lifestyle offers.) If we don't go with the Lifestyle, we will bite the bullet and design a custom New Horizon's fifth wheel. None of the other brands make the cut for us.
Roy
There are many factors that go into the pin weight, it can be adjusted (to a degree) by the placement of the axels. Perhaps they take the potential weight into account and move the axels as required to keep the pin weight within reason.
Flyone