I just had an idea that does not seem to have been thought of before... or maybe it has but was discarded for some reason and the potential limitations were overlooked by me...so here it is....

Since you are already pushing 13+ feet of height with existing 5ers, imagine building the whole living space ala Travel Trailer and adding full length storage under like in MHs. Basically, take a MH remove the front wheels, engine or genny compartment and put a 5er pinbox in its place. You could move the AC into the basement. Interior headroom should be similar to MHs everywhere except possibly the area over the hitch just like in regular 5ers. You wouldn't need those heavy rear 22.5 truck tires and related suspension components needed for a MH, so they could be reduced to H trailer tires with 8k or maybe 9K axles. The heavy DP engine could be replaced with small & lighter genny. Instead of 3 steps inside to the upper level there would be none or maybe one. Rig entry would need more steps just like a MH.  Just trying to think outside the box.  Not really considering the idea seriously, more of a mental exercise. Thoughts?

My inspiration for all this came from seeing a 40' container that was modified to fit a giant genset. it had a big fuel tank and tool/equipment bays under, and the whole thing was resting on a lowboy(ok not quite a loyboy) trailer such that the deck that the genny was on, was near the level of the kingpin on the trailer/chassis.  The container was similar to the ones they use to run reefer blocks on the intermodal stack trains. The trailer/chassis was an interesting contraption all by itself. It was equipped with a device for self-extracting the container and deploying it on the ground.

Brian

I thought they had an Open Range with the front living room.  I think that model has some storage under the bedroom also. I was thinking more like the whole living area was one one level and having MH style storage compartments under the majority of the living area... and still get it under 13 feet high.

Carriage did a 1-off design for the president of the company as a show trailer. It was 39-40' 5th wheel that had 1 main living deck like a travel trailer. All the storage was underneath like a bus. Carriage never went any further with it though. I'll try to find the pics of it.

Over on the Escapee's forum, ask Phoenix2013 about his Carriage, it's the one I mentioned, but I can't locate any pics of it.  It's a great design and a lot of thought was put into it in 1997.

Red, using Lee and Trace's rig as an example, if the kitchen (which is lower than the bedroom/bath and the living room) was raised up to the same level, that additional space could house WH, Furnace, AC, xfer swtiches, battery bank, genny, propane, water tanks and still have room left over. You'd still have your main Basement storage and the compartment under the bedroom/bath area for the rest of your gear. It doesn't need to be a bumper pull. ... yep, still waiting patiently for those pix you promised. LOL

Jim, hope you find those pix, I'd be curious to see what they came up with... it seems practical to me, but heh, I'm just a future potential buyer and always on the look out for creative ideas. 

Brian

Good one Red!  Darn! I bin found out! I could just strip a 5er to the walls and build the whole thing in there... yah right, Cindi's gonna buy into that idea. ROFLMAO

OK, we are officially getting off topic... as much as I would love to discuss my hobby, that belongs on my "Calling all (mobile) model railroaders" thread.  I was really (honest) just considering the design as an exercise in determining if there is a better way to design a rig for improved storage.

Brian

 Jim, we checked it out online, we were hoping there would be one at Chicago RV show this year, but so many "wanna see" rigs (including the Montana 3791) were not going to be there this year that we gave it a pass. Will have to find a dealer near us that might have one for an "eyes on" eval. 

biggaRView wrote:

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I thought they had an Open Range with the front living room.  I think that model has some storage under the bedroom also. I was thinking more like the whole living area was one one level and having MH style storage compartments under the majority of the living area... and still get it under 13 feet high.

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 We have an Open Range FLR 386 ...the number reason it was the final choice is a tub high side to side basement that opens on both sides and can fit around 20 tubs.  This is under the bedroom which still has more headroom than most other models I've seen. Mine headroom was a must have for me.  In addition we have storage under the front living room which is h shaped.  

The kitchen has a small compartment on one side and the drive, furnace, etc on the other thus enleast amount of storage.  So it's not full compartments like in a class A but the closest by far I found in a fifth wheel last year.

We love  the rear living room In the Open Range but lost the under storage so ultimately and with some regret passed.  It's toally true if your willing to give up ceiling you could get more storage...but I love the rigs with high ceilings personally...not sure how much of that I would be willing to give up. 

Brian,

Keep in mind that the more storage space you get underneath might lead to the temptation to fill all that space.  That is when weight would become more of an issue.  Personally, I've found that we have plenty of outside storage space, and in fact, I can probably get some more by eliminating a few things that we just aren't using.

As for inside storage, I've still got room in two of my dresser drawers for stuff.  (Jo's dresser drawers are all pretty full.

Terry

Just when you think you're out... they drag you back in!  

Terry, in our case if I decide the trains can have a place in our mobile future, the front basement storage area would be filled with a modular setup that could be pulled out and setup at an onsite location, the sheer bulk of the modules would require monopolizing that space for storage.  So we would need additonal storage that would be used for the stuff (yuk there's that word!) that would normally go in the "basement".  My model RR gear, while bulky, is not that heavy. A pair of 3'x6' modules bolted together would be approx 2 feet thick for a total volume of 36cu ft. Each "pack" would weigh about 75lbs. or less depend on the construction methods I employ. I would have 2 such "packs" for a total of 72cu ft. plus tubs filled with accessories, rolling stock, modelling supplies, so you can see where the volume to store all that gear becomes an issue... for my personal space requirement. I have considered storing them inside the rig for transport, but then obviously they can't stay there once we reach a site so that is out.  We don't care for most of the Toy Haulers, owing to the floorplans, just don't work for us.

To clarify, yes I'd love to find a way to bring my favorite hobby with me, as it is a very stimulating and interactive experience beyond the sterotyped runnning around in a circle. I won't go into it here. Nevertheless, I have a variety of interests and if this space hogger doesn't work then, I'll press pause and possibly pick it up if, and/or when, we come off the road. There so many other choices that fit perfectly with being on the road, that I don't foresee ever feeling an empty spot for my favorite pastime. I can always visit one of the hundreds of local model railroad clubs accross the country, or one of the thousands of private home layouts and be a part of a miniature railroad empire pretty much anytime my heart aches to "run the 916 out of the yard at Dante, TN"

Brian

Now, where's Red to give a me primer on RC, so I can get a drone and GoPro and do some cool aerial videos

It sounds like a great idea you have there. A stair-free interior in a fiver would be just the ticket for folks with mobility issues, and is its main selling feature. The extra storage is just a bonus. My DW has difficulty with stairs, especially steep ones, which puts normal fifth wheels out of consideration for us. If someone would design and build a 5er like you propose, it would open up this option to thousands of RVers who were similarly excluding 5ers from their plans. It sounds like a brilliant marketing idea to aging boomers, returning injured war vets, and many others with handicaps or injuries who may be able to climb stairs, it's just difficult, time consuming and for many, painful. In addition, it could be offered with an option where a portion of the copious storage area could be dedicated to a mobility scooter/golf cart storage bay (which could be repurposed to store our 2 low height, folding handlebar motorbikes) - maybe even one that would raise and lower electrically to make storing and accessing these mobility devices even easier - sort of like the Class A I saw with a lowering, slide-out sports car bay in the underbelly, just on a smaller, more practical scale. It sounds like a million dollar idea to me - patent it quick!

Chip

Chip, I doubt I could patent it. But your thoughtful consideration of an appropriate application of the design is exactly what I was after with this concept. I let the design and marketing gurus hammer out the details. I agree, there's a lot of old f@rts, eventually including us, that could/might really use such a plan. even if it is only to stow our "hobbies" (oops cat's out of the bag, again)

Jim, I also agree the room under the occupied spaces does indeed allow load rebalancing, a plus in the design concept also.

Brian

Brian,

Is this something like what you had in mind? I saw this last year and have been looking for the link again since you started this thread.

http://www.americanarv.com/sequoyah_exterior.asp

Rob

One thing I consider when looking at a 40ft 5'er that weighs 14000lbs is what did they not use. I would look at the frame, sub framing, floor, wall, roof framing, thickness of insulation, then move to how cabinets and the interior walls are constructed. Are the cabinets MDF with a laminated finish or hardwood, are drawers stapled together, or dovetailed, self closing doors and drawers or are there catches, recessed lighting, flush slide floors or step ups?

on edit- I used the weight and length hypothetically as there are new 5'ers that are light weight but big.

Note that in the early pictures of the Sequoyah, their photos seem to be reversed.  From their description of road side and curb side, one would get the impression that the entry door is on the road side of the coach.  Yet, the last photo showing the fifth wheel at the PA RV show shows the door on the curb side.  I've linked again below, but it will go to a separate "window."

My son's computer seems to have an issue with showing video, so I'll have to check this trailer out more when we get back to Colorado.  Some of the interior photos also seem to be reversed.  I'm also wondering about storage space inside the trailer.  I didn't see a lot in the bedroom, so I'm not sure one like this would serve full-timers like Jo and myself.  It might be fine for others, but not for us.

American RV - Sequoyah

Terry

Terry and Jo wrote:

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Note that in the early pictures of the Sequoyah, their photos seem to be reversed.  From their description of road side and curb side, one would get the impression that the entry door is on the road side of the coach.  Yet, the last photo showing the fifth wheel at the PA RV show shows the door on the curb side.  I've linked again below, but it will go to a separate "window."

My son's computer seems to have an issue with showing video, so I'll have to check this trailer out more when we get back to Colorado.  Some of the interior photos also seem to be reversed.  I'm also wondering about storage space inside the trailer.  I didn't see a lot in the bedroom, so I'm not sure one like this would serve full-timers like Jo and myself.  It might be fine for others, but not for us.

American RV - Sequoyah

Terry

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If you look very closely at the first photo in the link above, you can see the steering wheel on the left side of the tow vehicle, so I'm not so sure the door ISN'T on the road side. That not such a good idea the way parks and spaces are laid out in North America. Of course, I only posted it because it seemed to go along with what Brian originally posted about a raised floor the entire length with storage underneath. 

Rob

Alie and Jims Carrilite wrote:

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One thing I consider when looking at a 40ft 5'er that weighs 14000lbs is what did they not use. I would look at the frame, sub framing, floor, wall, roof framing, thickness of insulation, then move to how cabinets and the interior walls are constructed. Are the cabinets MDF with a laminated finish or hardwood, are drawers stapled together, or dovetailed, self closing doors and drawers or are there catches, recessed lighting, flush slide floors or step ups?

on edit- I used the weight and length hypothetically as there are new 5'ers that are light weight but big.

-- Edited by Alie and Jims Carrilite on Saturday 28th of February 2015 10:38:30 PM

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You make a valid point. One should look at the materials an RV is made out of as well as the techniques used in construction. The manufacturer can either cheap out to save weight, or they can spend extra money on high-tech, lightweight materials and construction techniques to save weight, like Trailmanor does. I like some of the weight saving methods that Trailmanor and Aliner uses. For instance I like that my kitchen counter and shower stall is made out of light weight, foam core composite panels rather than plywood or OSB. Can you believe the granite counter tops and heavy, tiled shower enclosures some high-end campers use? They must weigh hundreds of lbs. I'd rather have a plastic shower door than a glass one too (less chance of breaking and a 50+lb weight savings alone). I doubt my kitchen counter and shower enclosure put together weigh 50 lbs., as Styrofoam composites weigh next to nothing.

Then there's BAL's new lightweight slide-out that the Keystone Sprinter, Open Range, etc now uses. The whole accu-slide mechanism weighs less than 40 lbs, leaving more available space and carrying capacity than the old, leaky hydraulic or rack and pinion slide mechanisms. http://www.norcoind.com/bal/downloads/accuslide/accuslide_brochure.pdf

I'd sure like to have a floor like Trailmanor uses, in my next trailer. It's a composite laminate with 3 inches of Styrofoam sandwiched in-between. It's less than half the weight of a conventional plywood or OSB floor (less even than the high-tech Preformax floor used in my Aliner too), and you start with R-15 insulation, before any additional fiberglass batting is added. The same goes for the roof too. Why have heavy plywood up there when a Styrofoam composite roof is both stronger and lighter? I like an all aluminum superstructure too, as opposed to a wooden framed one. Not only is it stronger and lighter, but unlike wood, is impervious to rotting from an undetected water leak. I would like to see all the wood and wood products removed from my dream RV. I'd rather see foam core composite cabinets, doors, etc. than heavy hardwood and glass ones. Less weight means more cargo carrying capacity for what you really want to take with you, like additional water tank capacity and a bigger battery bank -  making the trailer more suitable for extended boondocking.

Of course a 20,000 lb fiver needs a 14-15" frame for adequate support, but a 12" frame on a 10-12k lb. fiver will be more than adequate to supporting the lighter box, saving hundreds of lbs. in unnecessary frame weight alone. I can't wait till they start building trailers on rust free aluminum chassis, perhaps even monocoque (weight supporting superstructure/skin) like modern uni-body car/aircraft designs. Plus there's the fuel savings of towing a lighter trailer (important for the FTer pulling their trailer ten of thousands of miles every year) and the lower wear and tear on a lighter, more fuel efficient TV that now may be used. Imagine a 5,000 lb., 30ft FT capable fiver (with 3,000 lbs of CCC) that could be easily pulled by a 1/2 ton Dodge Ecodiesel enjoying maybe 15-16 MPG towing, and near 30 MPG when not. Would that be a game changer or what?

I recently saw a prototype TT made with carbon fiber.  http://www.gctrv.com/Global-Caravan-Technologies.php  Airstream owners eat your hearts out. Ya gotta admit, that is slick! Plus look at the minimal TV demonstrated to pull it.

Hey, all it takes is money.

Chip

Second Chance wrote:

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Brian,

Is this something like what you had in mind? I saw this last year and have been looking for the link again since you started this thread.

http://www.americanarv.com/sequoyah_exterior.asp

 

Rob

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 Are  they still in business?  I think I read something somewhere that indicated AmericanaRV had closed up shop a few years ago. But yes that is pretty much exactly the concept I was thinking of.