Wifey and I are driving ourselves a little nuts, trying to nail down one TT for our planned one year journey around the US. We have decided a 30-32' rear living trailer suits our needs, and are stuck between a Jayco 318RETS, and Arctic Fox 32A.

The Jayco has the potentially regrettable Lippert frame, but a host of other features we want, at a much more affordable price point. The Arctic Fox is noticeably better fit and finish wise, but lacking some features. Additionally, the Artic fox is about $15K more than the Jayco.

Both manufacturers have the same BS in their advertising of the insulation R-value. The mylar faced bubble wrap they claim gives R-1 billion, really yields an extra R-1, or 2, without proper air spacing. Both have well insulated structures, and heated underbelly.

Little things failing along the way are expected, both units have the same grade appliances, and no matter what price paid, things can fail.  I am not concerned with fixing small things myself. Dealer service would be limited to major things. If the Lippert breaks, I'll drag out my inverter welder (Yes, I am taking one along!), fire up the generator, and patch it up.

The Arctic Fox has better fit and finish, but no option for 50amp service, and a bedroom AC would be a tough add-on (They put a gawd-awful skylight in the bedroom, that can't be deleted).

I feel kind of stupid posting another "Help me decide" thread, but maybe some of you have some input that could help sway the decision one way or the other.

I am trying to visualize real-world failures of the less expensive trailer, that I might encounter along the way. Fifteen thousand dollars is not chump change to us, so the durability factor would have to be much higher for the AF, to justify it's expense.

We are not committed to living on the road indefinitely. One year is the plan. If we absolutely love the lifestyle, and decide to go for several years, I will be looking at a used HDT, and something monstrous to drag behind it. (I just can't stomach $65,000 for a DRW pickup truck, when a used HDT is half that price for a REAL truck).

As always, any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Regards, Kyle

Kyle:

While I agree with everything you said from frames to fit-and-finish – they both have the same items that break the most as you know:  Hot water heater, range, AC units, fridge, etc. as all these items come from just two or three sources. (Generalization here everyone) 

Based on the things you said, I’d pick the Jayco simply due to live-ability – again, based on your comments as to the short comings of both and how what will impact your life every day  - like no second AC unit and a sky light in the bedroom - and the length of time you plan to keep the rig.

BTW, the Lippert frame won’t break unless you overload it or treat it poorly - just don't put Big Foot Levelers on it. I wouldn’t overstress (pardon that pun) on that one.  No, not as good a frame as others, but it will serve your purpose.  I’d be more concerned about replacing the OEM tires with something much better before I got too concerned about the frame.  JMO based on your post.

Bill

I understand the hesitance to embrace the 3,000 lb figure quoted to me by several FT RVers, as I did until I started to tally the items up.

Remember you will be carrying all your worldly possessions with you, which for most folks, even after pruning your possessions to a tiny fraction of what you own now will still be quite heavy. I've found that often the actual CCC of units on the dealer's lot is usually a couple hundred lbs lower than advertised because of many "options" like a spare tire, ac, awning, battery, etc. add hidden weight and are not really optional. I recommend that you look at the actual CCC on the weight sticker before you pull the trigger.

Let's look at some of the things that typically eat up an RVs CCC. First there's water. Let's say you decide on the Jayco you are looking at with an 82 gallon fresh water capacity (8.33 x 82 = 683lbs of it if you want to boondock or camp without hookups occasionally and need to travel with your fresh tank full (your gray and black will be empty unless you are going to dump, then your fresh tank will more than likely be empty or at least very low), next add 60 lbs of propane (plus the weight of the tanks, if not included), and 50-75 lbs of batteries - maybe a couple hundred lbs. if you like to boondock. Next, add the contents of your freezer/fridge (easily 50-60 lbs), a full ice chest, pantry - another 50-100+lbs (I always carry a 50lb bag of rice, plus canned goods, drinking water, potatos, etc are heavy), clothes (4 seasons worth), shoes, linens, foam topper for bed, pillows, window coverings/decorations, kitchen appliances (toaster ovens, blender, mixer, rice pot, coffee pot, slow cooker, dishwasher, etc.) kitchen utensils, pots and pans, misc. household items like lamps, chairs, washer/drier, etc., toiletries, make-up, medical supplies, cleaning supplies (vacuum, mop and broom) and chemicals, folding chairs, recliners, floor/door mats, tarps, rope and chains, screen rooms/tentage, toys (bikes, hobby and sporting equipt., fishing gear, hunting gear, guns and ammo, bicycles, motorcycles, ATVs, helmets and riding gear), TV/DVD/satellite equipt., stereo/music gear, game systems/computers, printers, family heirlooms/treasures, camera gear, safe, important papers, certificates, records military decorations, awards, etc, locks and security system, portable heaters, generator/spare fuel (a Honda EU3,000 is 150lbs + another 30lbs for can of gas), solar panels (controller, inverter, cabling, battery monitor, fuse blocks, breaker box and extra heavy batteries - I'm planning on an extensive solar setup that will allow me complete grid independence - of course that will weigh about 1,000lbs, so let's just say 500 lbs for an average, medium sized system), sewage hoses, fittings and sewer hose holder (a legal requirement in some states), fresh water hoses and fittings, electrical cords, surge protector, leveling gear, water filters, macerator pump, portable dump tanks, water bladder, patio/camping lights, lanterns, flashlights, tables, BBQ grill/fuel, tools (very heavy), spare parts, coolant, oil and filters (fuel, air and oil for) truck, air compressor, ladder, topper or camper for truck, pet supplies, cages, etc.

I'm sure given a little thought much more could be added. This is my list just to get you thinking about you unique needs. Remember you don't want to put too much in your truck bed, because in addition to your motorcycle (I'll be carrying two), fuel, generator, tools, cover, etc. you must also add your tongue wt, hitch wt, passenger wt, fuel wt and misc cargo.. If you only have a 3/4 ton or a SRW truck like me it's easy to overload it if not careful.

And then there's the souvenirs you will accumulate over your travels, "Lucy put those big rocks back! Aw, Ricky!" ;)

Chip

 

Guess I need to make a list, and start weighing things! I did weigh our truck at the local truckstop recently, so I at least have the numbers I need there.
It's remarkable to me, how much RV's weigh. Our truck was the towing king of gassers, in 2002. 8.1 (496ci), Allison, 4.10 rear end, etc. It won't safely tow anything but the smaller 5'ers produced today. Even if the GVWR and GCWR is ok, the pin weights they are rolling out of the factory now are out of our range very quickly. The leap in towing performance since 2002, is amazing. The price tag to upgrade is staggering. The advice often given here, to buy the rv first, and the tow vehicle second, is solid. I am in the position of having a paid off low mileage truck, that is limited in what it can tow. The option to buy a $60,000 diesel, just isn't there.
I agree on the cargo capacity. One very nice looking unit we looked at, was the Open range RT320RES. We liked the floorplan, and had it near the top of our list, until I looked for the storage compartment door... There are two tiny storage areas, one big enough for hoses, and another that might hold a couple of those under the bed totes. Amazing, and a bit of a bummer. That one got checked off the list.
Our local Northwood dealer is a pretty cool guy. He's out to lunch on his pricing, but he's upfront, and speaks his mind honestly. He told us the "Glitz" of modern RV's was eating the storage right out of them. 10000 GVRW is a big tipping point, not only for tow vehicles, but apparently for licensing requirements, in some states. Everybody wants lightweight, and most people want their rv to look like home. Come on, a fake brick chimney, with an electric fireplace?? LOL. I like the "look", sure, but I'd rather kick it out on the curb, and gain 300lbs of CC. Same with the kitchen islands. Sure, it looks like home, but it's eating 10 square feet of floor space, and adding weight.
Frustrating and fun, at the same time. That's how I sum up our RV shopping so far. Good to know we aren't alone!
Regards, Kyle

Kyle,

With respect to the possibility of needing to upgrade trucks, don't rule out the possibility of buying a good one on the used market.  When we were researching for our RV, I considered a Ford F450 to be the smallest for the size of trailer we wanted.  (This was back in 2008-2009.)  In Oklahoma, where we lived at the time, any used F450's would likely have come off of the "oil patch," and thus, be extremely well used.  That made me think that a new F450 was my best option, but I was also hesitant to spend $65,000 to $70,000 on a truck.  We had decided to downsize on our choice of trailer so we could purchase a good used F350, which were generally available at our favorite dealership.

When I went to research used F350's then, the dealership had none at all on their website.  I expanded my search criteria and up popped a 1 year old F450 with only 46,000 miles on it.  It met all out needs and was priced at only $36,000.  Of course, we got it for less and with the acquisition, we went back to looking at the Mobile Suites trailers again, which is what we ended up with.

Point is, check around at used.  If you can find one for half price as we did, you could have a real bargain for your needs, and some leeway should you decide to keep RV'ing and want to upsize on a trailer.

Terry

Vagabond wrote:

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....The option to buy a $60,000 diesel, just isn't there.... 

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 I don't know where your go/no go option is limited to... but there are several 2014 brand new, fully equipped Chev 3500HDs(last time I drove by there a week ago) on a Chevy dealer lot near us here in Chicagoland for well under 60K and and likely negotiable down to near 42K since they have been on the lot for quite some time.  Last time I actually popped in, when I suggested 45K, the rep did not flinch. Just sayin' you don't need to spend 60K for that "new truck" smell. They are out there.

FWIW, Brian

I'll second the Work and Play. While they do not have the glitz of some, the construction makes it a good option for those needing the carrying capacity. I see them in Colorado every summer when we are there with our OHV.

We fulltimed for almost 10 years. Yes the 1,000-1,500 lbs per person is right on. You may start out with 500lbs each, but trust me, if you have room, something will be in there. Be it shoes, a extra can of beans, a case of ammo.

Also, remember, a gas engine looses about 3.7% of its towing ability for each 1,000ft in elevation climb.

Jim