We have finally decided on our new full timing 5th wheel unit and are looking for some guidance with our existing tow vehicle. First some details.
Unit; 2016 Excel 34IKE Limited
Maximum GVWR = 17,500 LBS
Tow vehicle; 2011 GMC 2500
4 WD, SRW, 6.5 foot bed, diesel, Allison.
Here are our questions,
1) Are we good to tow this unit with our current truck or are we looking at an upgrade?
2) The unit will have 7000 axles. Yet the GVWR is for 3500 lbs more than that. Is that reasonable or unsafe?
3) What 5th wheel hitch brand would be recommended and at what weight rating?
And additional comments and suggestions are appreciated and thanks to all!
Mike
Terry and Jo said
08:40 PM Jan 15, 2015
Mike and Anne,
First of all, the axles on the trailer will only be carrying part of the weight. Roughly 15% to 20% of the weight of the trailer will be carried by the truck itself, primarily on the rear axle. So, that shouldn't be of any concern.
As for your truck's weight capacities, I suggest you go by a dealer and have them look at your truck and the data plate somewhere near the driver's side door. That data plate will include such things as tire pressure recommendations and weights and the rear axle's differential ratio. All of that stuff must be considered in determining what the truck can "handle" with regards to weight.
What you will want to know is the truck's GVWR (Gross Vehicular Weight Rating), also known as payload weight, it's GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating), and the truck's GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicular Weight.) Once you have that, fill you truck with fuel, load up any passengers, pets, cargo that is expected to be in the truck, and get it weighed to see what your "practical" gross vehicular weight would be. Add that weight to the GVWR of the trailer. You want that final total to be less than the truck's GCVW. Anything too close to that GCVW could mean that the truck isn't heavy enough for the full load. Oh, and you also don't want to exceed the weight on the rear axle, so you might want to consider weighing the truck when it is also hooked up to the loaded trailer to see what weight is on the axle.
From what you describe about the truck, I think the 3/4-ton truck will be way too light for a trailer weighing 17,500 lbs. If your trailer weight is that heavy, you would also want a hitch that will handle more than that weight. Our trailer weighs in at 18,500 lbs and we have a 22K Reese fifth wheel hitch. You might want to consider an air ride fifth wheel hitch if you really want a smoother ride. TrailerSaver is one that seems to come highly recommended.
Also, with a short bed pickup, you might need to have a sliding fifth wheel hitch so that you will be less likely to hit the rear of the cab with the front of the fifth wheel. Oh, and one other thing. With a trailer that big and heavy, you might also want to consider a truck that is a dually. Watch the bed rail height on any truck you get or have. Your 2011 would have low enough bed rails, but the newer ones are taller, thus cutting down on the clearance between the underside of the trailer's overhang and the bed rails.
Terry
TRAILERKING said
09:23 PM Jan 15, 2015
When ever you're going to tow make sure to close the end gate. Then when the king-pin becomes unglued..........It will still be hung up in the box.
The Junkman said
06:31 AM Jan 16, 2015
1. Upgrade the truck. Many have the Ram's. Pretty heavy trailer for a 35 footer. A dually would be best. But run the numbers, you may get by with a srw..3500.. in a RAM. 2. Check the capacity of the tires. they are more important than the axles. And keep in mind, some of the weight of the trailer will be on your truck. 3. Fifth wheel hitches seem all generic to me. any 20k hitch will do ya. I use a Curt .. it's color coded lock in will save your bed. like $600 delivered. And is all you need.. combine that with the moryd pin.. and you'd have no bucking or chucking.. All the luxury , Heavy rigs seem to be using the moryd pin..I would expect Excel to have the same.
Btw.. nice rig.. just seen the new Excels at the tampa show. I really like them.
-- Edited by The Junkman on Friday 16th of January 2015 06:32:06 AM
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
07:53 AM Jan 16, 2015
There is an Excel owners forum on IRV2 that has great info on what folks pull what RV with. Several are pulling with a late model SRW with success. The truck tires are usually overloaded before the truck suspension. For piece of mind most folks use 20% of the GVWR of the camper to determine a pin weight. Allways go high on your calculations though. 3000lbs sounds like alot, but in reality it's not. By the time you add all your set up equipment, your clothing, kitchen stuff, a washer/dryer(?), extra batteries or solar, chairs, lights, grill, etc, you eat the extra capacity quickly. If you carry anything in the truck bed, you need to subtract that weight from your truck carrying capacity too.
Excel offers the Demco pinbox which is the same as the Moryde, very worthwhile.
Hitches are different from brand to brand and model to model. An airhitch- Trail Saver, or other brand, is the best you can do. B&W has designed and developed a hitch that is great, American Made, and has established a great reputation. PullRite is another great brand. Curt and Reese also have offerings in the 20k area. Something to look into though is having a hitch that has wrap around jaws. The jaws fully enclose around the kingpin minimizing movement in the hitch. Many brands use a bar that closes over the back of the kingpin with varied results.
Safe travels!
Cummins12V98 said
08:24 AM Jan 16, 2015
Take your gross RV weight rating, take 20-25% of that. That will be your pin weight.
Too many just look at their tow rating of their TV., it's the weight pushing down on your TV that matters. Your truck most likely will be overloaded.
Glenn West said
11:46 AM Jan 16, 2015
I had a Companion Hitch by B&W. It bucked badly with our DRV. Later with current truck got a Pull Rite 20k Super Fifther. It sheared bolts in short time. Replaced with stainless. finally bought Hitch Crafter air hitch, 32k, mounted to hauler bed. I can't say enough about the air hitch. It is a HD unit. It is formed 3/8" steel. No small bolts. Uses the Brinkley head, the standard in the industry. Hitch is designed where it will not go in lock position unless it is locked. Ride is terrific and comes with own air pump and level sensor. I towed with cheap hitches and was not comfortable with them. Personally I believe it is unwise to buy your dream home, costing 10s of thousands of dollars and buying a cheap hitch. The air hitches are superior units and well worth the cost. You are at the upper limits of your truck. Will it tow it, yes. Your tires are your limit. You will need air bags. The springs won't support the pin. Your axles are fine, again tires limited. I would go to Excel form and ask about the pin weight others are seeing with your unit. Then weigh your truck and see if you are over tire limit with that pin. I personally would want a dually.
Cummins12V98 said
12:03 AM Jan 17, 2015
There is nothing "cheap" about the B&W hitch. My 36' MS weighs 19K I assume much more than your 32' MS did, my hitch is rock solid and has been for 3.5 years of full time towing.
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
06:17 AM Jan 17, 2015
Cummins12V98 wrote:
There is nothing "cheap" about the B&W hitch. My 36' MS weighs 19K I assume much more than your 32' MS did, my hitch is rock solid and has been for 3.5 years of full time towing.
You didn't read Glen signature very well. He sold the smaller Mobile Suites and now has Teton, From what I understand the Teton has a pin weight of 5k and rolls at over 21k. That's about the max that the B&W is designed for.
Glenn West said
09:34 AM Jan 17, 2015
When you examine an air ride hitch you will likely consider the B&W light weight. I also didn't mention I could not keep bolts tight with it. Assume it was the bucking causing it. And yes we now have over 5k pin. had over 4k on DRV.
Cummins12V98 said
09:56 AM Jan 17, 2015
Alie and Jims Carrilite wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
There is nothing "cheap" about the B&W hitch. My 36' MS weighs 19K I assume much more than your 32' MS did, my hitch is rock solid and has been for 3.5 years of full time towing.
You didn't read Glen signature very well. He sold the smaller Mobile Suites and now has Teton, From what I understand the Teton has a pin weight of 5k and rolls at over 21k. That's about the max that the B&W is designed for.
I know exactly what Glen has and had. I stated my B&W even tho only rated for 18K is pulling my 19K 5er with no problems with a 5K pin. He did say the B&W is light weight and I totally disagree with that. It's in my opinion the most solid best quality "non air ride" hitch out there.
My point is his MS was lighter than my MS and we have/had the same B&W hitch. So there was an underlying problem for his setup since mine has been troubler for 3.5 tears towing our 36' MS.
I would say Glen's problems with bucking had nothing to do with the hitch it's self other than the installation of the gooseneck hitch the B&W was attached to.
Glenn West said
10:17 AM Jan 17, 2015
I agree it is arguably the best non air hitch on market. But it is light compared to an air ride. If I had to be in an accident I would want my air hitch.
Cummins12V98 said
03:10 PM Jan 17, 2015
Have you looked at the RVK3600? They are really nice they drop into the factory pucks that tie directly to the frame. 25K and 6,250# pin rated.
Not sure at what point I would change to an air ride hitch. My setup rides really nice with the TrailAir airbag kingpin. I like the ease of removing my hitch. I want to use the truck for other things when we are near our home base.
Glenn West said
06:13 PM Jan 17, 2015
My air hitch is very robust. 3/8" thick formed steel. Nothing bolted, all welded and 1" pins in bushings with grease fittings. Mine is bolted in bed with 5/8" grade 8 bolts. In an accident it likely with stay hooked up and hitch will stay in truck. I personally have seen a wreck where hitch head came out an rv destroyed truck. The hitch head was lying on round. This one was jacknifed and owners unharmed. It could have easily went thru truck. I do not want a light weight hitch.
Team Murc said
06:28 PM Jan 22, 2015
Thanks to everyone who helped us make the right decision on our tow vehicle.
While at the Tampa RV Super show this past week we purchased a new to us 2014 F450 Hauler Bed with 8,000 miles on her (yes 8,000 miles) from Classy Chassis. With a pin weight rating of 5,000# and a tow rating of 25,000# we can now move ahead with the purchase of our new Excel knowing we have a very large margin of safety.
Thanks again,
Mike + Anne
A-S Travelers said
12:51 PM Jan 24, 2015
Team Murc wrote:
Thanks to everyone who helped us make the right decision on our tow vehicle. While at the Tampa RV Super show this past week we purchased a new to us 2014 F450 Hauler Bed with 8,000 miles on her (yes 8,000 miles) from Classy Chassis. With a pin weight rating of 5,000# and a tow rating of 25,000# we can now move ahead with the purchase of our new Excel knowing we have a very large margin of safety.
Thanks again,
Mike + Anne
Excellent decision, going with a MDT (Medium Duty Truck). No way was your 2500 was capable of safely towing or stopping the 5'er.
Mike and Anne,
First of all, the axles on the trailer will only be carrying part of the weight. Roughly 15% to 20% of the weight of the trailer will be carried by the truck itself, primarily on the rear axle. So, that shouldn't be of any concern.
As for your truck's weight capacities, I suggest you go by a dealer and have them look at your truck and the data plate somewhere near the driver's side door. That data plate will include such things as tire pressure recommendations and weights and the rear axle's differential ratio. All of that stuff must be considered in determining what the truck can "handle" with regards to weight.
What you will want to know is the truck's GVWR (Gross Vehicular Weight Rating), also known as payload weight, it's GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating), and the truck's GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicular Weight.) Once you have that, fill you truck with fuel, load up any passengers, pets, cargo that is expected to be in the truck, and get it weighed to see what your "practical" gross vehicular weight would be. Add that weight to the GVWR of the trailer. You want that final total to be less than the truck's GCVW. Anything too close to that GCVW could mean that the truck isn't heavy enough for the full load. Oh, and you also don't want to exceed the weight on the rear axle, so you might want to consider weighing the truck when it is also hooked up to the loaded trailer to see what weight is on the axle.
From what you describe about the truck, I think the 3/4-ton truck will be way too light for a trailer weighing 17,500 lbs. If your trailer weight is that heavy, you would also want a hitch that will handle more than that weight. Our trailer weighs in at 18,500 lbs and we have a 22K Reese fifth wheel hitch. You might want to consider an air ride fifth wheel hitch if you really want a smoother ride. TrailerSaver is one that seems to come highly recommended.
Also, with a short bed pickup, you might need to have a sliding fifth wheel hitch so that you will be less likely to hit the rear of the cab with the front of the fifth wheel. Oh, and one other thing. With a trailer that big and heavy, you might also want to consider a truck that is a dually. Watch the bed rail height on any truck you get or have. Your 2011 would have low enough bed rails, but the newer ones are taller, thus cutting down on the clearance between the underside of the trailer's overhang and the bed rails.
Terry
1. Upgrade the truck. Many have the Ram's. Pretty heavy trailer for a 35 footer. A dually would be best. But run the numbers, you may get by with a srw..3500.. in a RAM.
2. Check the capacity of the tires. they are more important than the axles. And keep in mind, some of the weight of the trailer will be on your truck.
3. Fifth wheel hitches seem all generic to me. any 20k hitch will do ya. I use a Curt .. it's color coded lock in will save your bed. like $600 delivered. And is all you need.. combine that with the moryd pin.. and you'd have no bucking or chucking.. All the luxury , Heavy rigs seem to be using the moryd pin..I would expect Excel to have the same.
Btw.. nice rig.. just seen the new Excels at the tampa show. I really like them.
-- Edited by The Junkman on Friday 16th of January 2015 06:32:06 AM
Excel offers the Demco pinbox which is the same as the Moryde, very worthwhile.
Hitches are different from brand to brand and model to model. An airhitch- Trail Saver, or other brand, is the best you can do. B&W has designed and developed a hitch that is great, American Made, and has established a great reputation. PullRite is another great brand. Curt and Reese also have offerings in the 20k area. Something to look into though is having a hitch that has wrap around jaws. The jaws fully enclose around the kingpin minimizing movement in the hitch. Many brands use a bar that closes over the back of the kingpin with varied results.
Safe travels!
Too many just look at their tow rating of their TV., it's the weight pushing down on your TV that matters. Your truck most likely will be overloaded.
You didn't read Glen signature very well. He sold the smaller Mobile Suites and now has Teton, From what I understand the Teton has a pin weight of 5k and rolls at over 21k. That's about the max that the B&W is designed for.
I know exactly what Glen has and had. I stated my B&W even tho only rated for 18K is pulling my 19K 5er with no problems with a 5K pin. He did say the B&W is light weight and I totally disagree with that. It's in my opinion the most solid best quality "non air ride" hitch out there.
My point is his MS was lighter than my MS and we have/had the same B&W hitch. So there was an underlying problem for his setup since mine has been troubler for 3.5 tears towing our 36' MS.
I would say Glen's problems with bucking had nothing to do with the hitch it's self other than the installation of the gooseneck hitch the B&W was attached to.
Have you looked at the RVK3600? They are really nice they drop into the factory pucks that tie directly to the frame. 25K and 6,250# pin rated.
Not sure at what point I would change to an air ride hitch. My setup rides really nice with the TrailAir airbag kingpin. I like the ease of removing my hitch. I want to use the truck for other things when we are near our home base.
While at the Tampa RV Super show this past week we purchased a new to us 2014 F450 Hauler Bed with 8,000 miles on her (yes 8,000 miles) from Classy Chassis. With a pin weight rating of 5,000# and a tow rating of 25,000# we can now move ahead with the purchase of our new Excel knowing we have a very large margin of safety.
Thanks again,
Mike + Anne
Excellent decision, going with a MDT (Medium Duty Truck). No way was your 2500 was capable of safely towing or stopping the 5'er.