We have been offered a workamping position for the winter. It's not confirmed yet; we should know in a day or 2 whether they can wait for us to get there (they want someone asap but we can't get there til the 2nd week of Dec.). Assuming they have no problem with it, I have a few questions, as this would be the first time for us:
1) is it appropriate to try to negotiate? For example, electric is not included with anyone's sites. They are offering $50 towards electric but we'd have to pay the balance. It is unreasonable to ask for full electricity coverage?
2) is it appropriate for us to request a specific site or do we have to take what they give us, especially if it's going to be a long term (5-6 month) commitment?
2) is it appropriate or customary to ask for a written contract spelling out exactly what the expectations are?
3) is it appropriate to request payment if asked to do something that is not included in the contract or job description?
4) if things don't work out or we're not happy, is it proper to give 2 weeks notice?
Thanks!
SnowGypsy said
07:31 PM Nov 1, 2014
Cheryl: Go here and do the search for "workamper contracts": www.work-for-rvers-and-campers.com/ as it brings up a good info list. Hope that helps. I've read a lot on workamping from books to discussions. It can be rough if you don't get everything spelled out and even then, things can go wrong. A lot of people just drive away without notice which in anything less than an extreme situation just seems wrong to me.
WestWardHo said
10:14 PM Nov 1, 2014
Cheryl,
I'd be extra careful as they need someone right away but you can't arrive until 2nd week of Dec. - I can in this case I can almost smell them saying come ahead and then in two weeks telling you they filled the position. Yes, please ask for your duties to be spelled out so both you & the Mgr. have clear expectations but plan to be flexible about the little extra things. Example: you might be required to do checkins and computer work, etc. but if it's quiet you might be expected to dust or vacuum. That might not be spelled out.
Managers set their rates and compensation based upon going rates in their area. High demand winter or summer places often offer less comp than than other parks less in demand.
Workampers almost always are assigned sites that are less desirable and more convenient for management but they're not always bad sites. Not sure that would be negotiable but you could ask what your site assignment would be and then view on their website before accepting.
We wanted to treat managers as we wanted to be treated. Two weeks is best but we've read of some awful places where it would be uncomfortable to stay.
Good luck,
Sherry
manycats said
07:57 AM Nov 2, 2014
Cheryl,
I can see the "worry hat" is on your head. Ask yourself one question: Do you want, and can you afford, to spend the winter in Texas if you don't get the workamping position? In all our years workamping we only had one semi-bad experience when we pulled from Florida to Idaho to find the park owner had hired someone else while we were on our way. Even that worked out because there was enough work for two men and the owner hired my DH anyway.
You can negotiate anything in the world, it doesn't hurt to ask. However, your position is weaker because you're asking them to wait and there are many others who may be able to get there sooner. Sites are usually assigned by the park and you will not get the most desirable. Premium sites go to paying customers, not employees.
It is important to get a clear statement of your duties to avoid nasty surprises but written contracts are highly unusual. Besides, what can you do with a contract, sue them? It's better to walk away than to spend your time and money, in court. As an old lawyer I can tell right now, it's not worth it. RV wheels turn a lot faster.
Every time we went to Texas we found plenty of work available. We didn't have to work for a site, sometimes we just paid our site and worked at regular jobs for much better pay. This lifestyle is so flexible you can do whatever you want.
"Don't worry, be happy!"
SnowGypsy said
08:25 AM Nov 2, 2014
Cheryl: We have been members and are currently members of Workamper News. I know they talk about "work agreements" and I found this example which might be overkill but you can see where it is going: www.hireaworkamper.com/WKN2008_WorkAgreement.cfm and I was also thinking that if you really want to go to that general area that there should be temp jobs there. TX appears to be the happening place. It is very diverse from the east to the west. I prefer the west as I like dry and wide open spaces without trees having grown up in MI, I have seen enough trees for a lifetime. You're going to love traveling but it takes awhile to adjust, sometimes the culture shock stops you in your tracks but when you get your bearings, all is good if not great.
What I see the agreement doing is making sure that you heard them right and/or understood exactly what they were wanting. I would happy enough with an email that outlined the deal. People are just so busy and preoccupied these days that they often just forget details even with the best of intentions.
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Sunday 2nd of November 2014 08:35:11 AM
DRV said
09:26 AM Nov 2, 2014
Workkamping negotiations is similar to job hire negotiations. The more experience you have the more you can negotiate.
I work kamped at Tybee Island campground for 6 months and wanted a different job at the campground. I left when I did not get what I asked for. After I left they wanted me to come back and offered me the position that I wanted so I returned.
The Tybee campground had designated sites for workkampers. One workkamper had a good reputation from working there before and he returned only if he could have the lot he wanted. He got what he asked for too. We both got what we wanted because of our previous experience at the campground.
Jack Mayer said
10:30 AM Nov 3, 2014
You want a contract, even though they may not honor it. It forces both parties to think about things.
I would not travel that far for JUST a workamping job. I'd go if I wanted and intended to be there anyway. But be aware that the job may not be there when you get there. Unless you KNOW the quality of that manager/team. As long as you can afford the fuel and are OK with no job on arrival then that is fine.
You should of found out the answers to all these questions during the phone interview. Was there no phone interview? I would NEVER EVER take a job without speaking directly to the hiring person. NEVER. I want that opportunity to interview THEM. Go by your gut feel, too.
Two weeks is fine if you intend to leave, but be prepared to be told you have one day - or less - to get out, if you give notice like that. Just saying.
Winter positions are generally more biased to the provider....you have less bargaining power since there are so many people that will take positions. And you generally will not get site choice.
They are limiting electric costs to them for a reason....if it gets cold my renters in Mission can run $200+ electric bills. It is highly variable depending on rig and individuals heating strategy. That is what they are protecting themselves from. Low cost per month in the Valley when it is cold is around $100 in electric. High cost is in excess of $300. That is based on 8+ years of three rental lots.
cherylbrv said
11:48 AM Nov 6, 2014
Thank you all for your great advice. After having had the phone interview in which we laid out our requirements, they didn't seem to have a problem. However, when we sent an email just reiterating the phone conversation -- basically laying that as the groundwork for a written contract - they backed out!!! I think they didn't like us asking them to guarantee that they would not give the job away while we're in transit, and if they did, we were going to ask them for gas and other expenses incurred for having to travel there. Even though they did say they would hold the job but clearly they're not willing to back it up in writing. There were also a few other things discussed that they didn't argue against but maybe changed their minds in writing, such as asking to be paid for anything above and beyond the job requirements, and not being on call 24/7 unless there was an emergency.
Oh well, all for the best. Glad we tried to get a contract first! So Florida, here we come.
manycats said
11:03 PM Nov 6, 2014
Glad you have other options. Campground owners and managers are used to having many people apply who will accept anything they're offered, even if it's slave labor, because they want to be in that particular area. Probably that's why they backed out when you set conditions. You scared them, girl!!
Winter in Florida is very different from winter in The Valley and you have years and years ahead of you to try them both. Enjoy this season, who knows where you'll be in 2015... and it will be fun anyway.
SnowGypsy said
07:48 AM Nov 7, 2014
I've always thought it would be more fun and make sense to just take jobs and edge your way across the US. I've read many stories where people got to a job that wasn't there, hours were reduced or season cut short. Plus, I can tell you from experience that traveling in a hurry to get some where is not fun.
Lucky Mike said
08:12 AM Nov 7, 2014
There are plenty of temp agencies out there........I find its easier to pick my jobs when I need them at the hours I want within reason.....I cant play the temp game anymore but it worked well for me. the hours were good and I wasnt connected to the place I stayed.
work camping is great....but over the years it has eroded and people now are trying to use it as a full income....parks demand more hours so they dont have to spend for employees .....
suggestion.......find a mini cottage business and build it up..........I was glad I did, it makes an income whether I get up in the morning or not.
Camper Chronicles said
07:19 AM Nov 8, 2014
cherylbrv wrote:
Thank you all for your great advice. After having had the phone interview in which we laid out our requirements, they didn't seem to have a problem. However, when we sent an email just reiterating the phone conversation -- basically laying that as the groundwork for a written contract - they backed out!!! I think they didn't like us asking them to guarantee that they would not give the job away while we're in transit, and if they did, we were going to ask them for gas and other expenses incurred for having to travel there. Even though they did say they would hold the job but clearly they're not willing to back it up in writing. There were also a few other things discussed that they didn't argue against but maybe changed their minds in writing, such as asking to be paid for anything above and beyond the job requirements, and not being on call 24/7 unless there was an emergency.
Good for you putting it in writing. That took guts and I am glad you did it. Plus now you know. It's unchartered territory for those of who haven't work kamped before. And in general I think when doing a new thing it's important to begin as you mean to continue. I've had horrible bosses and great bosses in my life. That certainly makes all the difference in your day to day happiness ... I don't see why this would be any different. Make sure you get a good "feeling" from the interview and the. Back it up in writing.
Let us know how his is working our for you...we'll be following along soon and can learn from your experience ☺️
cherylbrv said
06:37 PM Nov 8, 2014
It turned out the real reason they said it wouldn't work out is because Mitch made it clear that he is a freelance IT field technician and as such may be called for assignments. He never knows where and when that far in advance (usually next or same day and he can travel anywhere from down the block to 100 miles away). Since the workamp job was part time, he wanted them to be aware that if he was called for an assignment, he would work his workamp schedule around that. The owners didn't like that arrangement - they said the workamp job takes #1 priority and his (paid) work is secondary. I can totally understand their point of view, but unfortunately, that arrangement just can't work. We still have bills to pay and can't afford to turn down paid work either.
We really weren't pursuing a workamp opportunity anyway. We just read about this one and it seemed up Mitch's alley that we thought we'd see if it could work out. But I'm sure their attitude is very typical, so until we can really afford to retire (or at least start collecting from our 401Ks and social security - at least 8 years from now), we can't really consider this.
SnowGypsy said
07:03 PM Nov 8, 2014
Cheryl: Looking at Workamper ads over the years, they really do expect a lot. They get lucky enough most of the time to have people who want to be in the area and don't need the money especially in the areas where the snowbirds flock in the winter. Most that need money to survive on take regular jobs and just pay for the RV park slot. What you'll see is that many take the daily rate to compute the value of the rv site when in reality, they charge a monthly rate which is much less. And perks aren't worth anything unless if is something that you are interested in. I have looked up the monthly rates that one would be paying versus "the value of the site" and learned that you end up making about the equivalent of around $2.00 per hour in the trade of work for site. So, minimum wage looks pretty good compared to that. You just need the right opportunity. Summer will bring more opportunities and make sure you watch www.coolworks.com because some of the mega big places hire people for about all types of jobs so something might just strike your fancy without depleting your pockets.
manycats said
10:03 PM Nov 8, 2014
Right on target, SnowGypsy. If you go to a park's website you can usually find the monthly or seasonal rate and you can calculate how much the park is really paying you. When we called ourselves work campers we were working and camping, not necessarily working for a park. Sometimes, one of us would work for a site and the other at a regular job nearby. Many other times we just paid for a site as regular customers. As I mentioned in another post, it would surprise our neighbors to see me go to work in high heels and a suit and my DH in jeans and work boots. We went wherever we liked and worked whenever we wanted and at whatever we liked. Freedom is always great.
Jack Mayer said
10:31 AM Nov 9, 2014
You need to factor in the value of the site, for sure. But if you have SKILLS that they want or need then you can be far more selective on the job you take.
In the case described above I would not hire either. As a manager I have to be able to know that I have people I can depend upon. In that scenario I KNOW that if the person got more work they would not be available to me. And there are time sensitive things in any campground job. Fixing a broken water pipe, sewer issues, and a myriad of other things. As a manager I need to have people that can do the work when the work is needed and not be a burden to the OTHER workampers. Because if you are not there, THEY have to do it regardless of if they are "on" or not. So I would not hire under those circumstances. Just another point of view.
cherylbrv said
05:15 PM Nov 9, 2014
I totally agree, Jack, which is why we realized that workamping is not for us until we reach a point where we don't need to be paid.
SnowGypsy said
06:18 PM Nov 9, 2014
Cheryl: Actually, you are workamping because by definition, it is "working" and "camping". You might at some point find a volunteer position where you would get the RV site and hours would be flexible enough so you could work something out. Might be something to watch for. The winter is a tough time to find jobs in the warmer states because everyone wants to be there. What some of the RV parks want in exchange for a campsite is, well, I can never imagine wanting to be in a place that much although a place like AK in the summer would be most tempting.
Jack Mayer said
10:55 AM Nov 10, 2014
Cheryl, I realize that you are aware of the uniqueness of your situation....my post was really for the education of others than might not be aware of how workamping works and the perspective of the hiring parties....
Lucky Mike said
12:22 PM Nov 10, 2014
I have found over the years that workcamping is a means to extend the financial budget rather than spend what you have...
it by no means will be anymore than a supplemental income that would be minimal and unless your really retired wouldnt work for most....
unless your doing the amazon thing.....workamping is just a place to stay and a free tank of gas out of town!
Jack Mayer said
03:16 PM Nov 10, 2014
In general I would agree with you Mike. But there are exceptions. It just depends on the job. You can find campground jobs that pay more than Amazon....but I'll admit they are relatively rare.
We have been offered a workamping position for the winter. It's not confirmed yet; we should know in a day or 2 whether they can wait for us to get there (they want someone asap but we can't get there til the 2nd week of Dec.). Assuming they have no problem with it, I have a few questions, as this would be the first time for us:
1) is it appropriate to try to negotiate? For example, electric is not included with anyone's sites. They are offering $50 towards electric but we'd have to pay the balance. It is unreasonable to ask for full electricity coverage?
2) is it appropriate for us to request a specific site or do we have to take what they give us, especially if it's going to be a long term (5-6 month) commitment?
2) is it appropriate or customary to ask for a written contract spelling out exactly what the expectations are?
3) is it appropriate to request payment if asked to do something that is not included in the contract or job description?
4) if things don't work out or we're not happy, is it proper to give 2 weeks notice?
Thanks!
I'd be extra careful as they need someone right away but you can't arrive until 2nd week of Dec. - I can in this case I can almost smell them saying come ahead and then in two weeks telling you they filled the position. Yes, please ask for your duties to be spelled out so both you & the Mgr. have clear expectations but plan to be flexible about the little extra things. Example: you might be required to do checkins and computer work, etc. but if it's quiet you might be expected to dust or vacuum. That might not be spelled out.
Managers set their rates and compensation based upon going rates in their area. High demand winter or summer places often offer less comp than than other parks less in demand.
Workampers almost always are assigned sites that are less desirable and more convenient for management but they're not always bad sites. Not sure that would be negotiable but you could ask what your site assignment would be and then view on their website before accepting.
We wanted to treat managers as we wanted to be treated. Two weeks is best but we've read of some awful places where it would be uncomfortable to stay.
Good luck,
Sherry
I can see the "worry hat" is on your head. Ask yourself one question: Do you want, and can you afford, to spend the winter in Texas if you don't get the workamping position? In all our years workamping we only had one semi-bad experience when we pulled from Florida to Idaho to find the park owner had hired someone else while we were on our way. Even that worked out because there was enough work for two men and the owner hired my DH anyway.
You can negotiate anything in the world, it doesn't hurt to ask. However, your position is weaker because you're asking them to wait and there are many others who may be able to get there sooner. Sites are usually assigned by the park and you will not get the most desirable. Premium sites go to paying customers, not employees.
It is important to get a clear statement of your duties to avoid nasty surprises but written contracts are highly unusual. Besides, what can you do with a contract, sue them? It's better to walk away than to spend your time and money, in court. As an old lawyer I can tell right now, it's not worth it. RV wheels turn a lot faster.
Every time we went to Texas we found plenty of work available. We didn't have to work for a site, sometimes we just paid our site and worked at regular jobs for much better pay. This lifestyle is so flexible you can do whatever you want.
"Don't worry, be happy!"
Cheryl: We have been members and are currently members of Workamper News. I know they talk about "work agreements" and I found this example which might be overkill but you can see where it is going: www.hireaworkamper.com/WKN2008_WorkAgreement.cfm and I was also thinking that if you really want to go to that general area that there should be temp jobs there. TX appears to be the happening place. It is very diverse from the east to the west. I prefer the west as I like dry and wide open spaces without trees having grown up in MI, I have seen enough trees for a lifetime. You're going to love traveling but it takes awhile to adjust, sometimes the culture shock stops you in your tracks but when you get your bearings, all is good if not great.
What I see the agreement doing is making sure that you heard them right and/or understood exactly what they were wanting. I would happy enough with an email that outlined the deal. People are just so busy and preoccupied these days that they often just forget details even with the best of intentions.
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Sunday 2nd of November 2014 08:35:11 AM
Workkamping negotiations is similar to job hire negotiations. The more experience you have the more you can negotiate.
I work kamped at Tybee Island campground for 6 months and wanted a different job at the campground. I left when I did not get what I asked for. After I left they wanted me to come back and offered me the position that I wanted so I returned.
The Tybee campground had designated sites for workkampers. One workkamper had a good reputation from working there before and he returned only if he could have the lot he wanted. He got what he asked for too. We both got what we wanted because of our previous experience at the campground.
I would not travel that far for JUST a workamping job. I'd go if I wanted and intended to be there anyway. But be aware that the job may not be there when you get there. Unless you KNOW the quality of that manager/team. As long as you can afford the fuel and are OK with no job on arrival then that is fine.
You should of found out the answers to all these questions during the phone interview. Was there no phone interview? I would NEVER EVER take a job without speaking directly to the hiring person. NEVER. I want that opportunity to interview THEM. Go by your gut feel, too.
Two weeks is fine if you intend to leave, but be prepared to be told you have one day - or less - to get out, if you give notice like that. Just saying.
Winter positions are generally more biased to the provider....you have less bargaining power since there are so many people that will take positions. And you generally will not get site choice.
They are limiting electric costs to them for a reason....if it gets cold my renters in Mission can run $200+ electric bills. It is highly variable depending on rig and individuals heating strategy. That is what they are protecting themselves from. Low cost per month in the Valley when it is cold is around $100 in electric. High cost is in excess of $300. That is based on 8+ years of three rental lots.
Oh well, all for the best. Glad we tried to get a contract first! So Florida, here we come.
Winter in Florida is very different from winter in The Valley and you have years and years ahead of you to try them both. Enjoy this season, who knows where you'll be in 2015... and it will be fun anyway.
work camping is great....but over the years it has eroded and people now are trying to use it as a full income....parks demand more hours so they dont have to spend for employees .....
suggestion.......find a mini cottage business and build it up..........I was glad I did, it makes an income whether I get up in the morning or not.
We really weren't pursuing a workamp opportunity anyway. We just read about this one and it seemed up Mitch's alley that we thought we'd see if it could work out. But I'm sure their attitude is very typical, so until we can really afford to retire (or at least start collecting from our 401Ks and social security - at least 8 years from now), we can't really consider this.
In the case described above I would not hire either. As a manager I have to be able to know that I have people I can depend upon. In that scenario I KNOW that if the person got more work they would not be available to me. And there are time sensitive things in any campground job. Fixing a broken water pipe, sewer issues, and a myriad of other things. As a manager I need to have people that can do the work when the work is needed and not be a burden to the OTHER workampers. Because if you are not there, THEY have to do it regardless of if they are "on" or not. So I would not hire under those circumstances. Just another point of view.
it by no means will be anymore than a supplemental income that would be minimal and unless your really retired wouldnt work for most....
unless your doing the amazon thing.....workamping is just a place to stay and a free tank of gas out of town!