We are planning our full-time adventure and are looking at several heavy Fifth Wheels (example: unloaded vehicle weight 16,200). We want reliable and safe so we don't want to tow at max level through mountains, etc. We feel we would be most comfortable with a medium duty versatile hauler type truck. We found an Freightliner FL60 single rear axle which appears to have been well-maintained. Is this "over-kill"? Will we be "shunned" by other campers? We appreciate any/all thoughts!
Terry and Jo said
02:04 PM Oct 1, 2014
Georgia,
First of all, welcome to the RV Dreams forums. You will find a lot of knowledgeable folks here that can provide answers, advice, and encouragement. So, join the fun.
As for the Freightliner, there are a lot of folks out there that are using them, so I don't really think you would have any issues. Besides, the most important thing is to select a truck that works best to make you comfortable with driving it and pulling a trailer behind. At the time we were doing our research, we considered a used SportsChassis, which is built on the MDT Freightliner frame and is customized in Oklahoma. Our only issue with them was that we couldn't afford the SportChassis and the trailer we wanted.
However, I wouldn't even look at the empty weights on trailers when making your choice. Always look at the GVWR (Gross Vehicular Weight Rating) of the trailer when considering trucks. If the larger light duty trucks (F350/3500 series trucks) don't appeal to you, consider both the FL60 style and the HDT (Heavy Duty Truck) trucks. One can find the HDT's used for a lot less money than many of the others.
Good luck with your research and planning.
Terry
GENECOP said
02:36 PM Oct 1, 2014
Welcome to the Forum....Forget about being shunned, get what you feel Is safest and comfortable for you....The truck you mentioned is used often for the heavy Fifth Wheels....It's a nice truck for the Big Fifths....
TRAILERKING said
03:36 PM Oct 1, 2014
As long as you know how and are comfortable.......and properly licensed to operate it that's the way to go.
Better power, better braking, better handling...........and more.
They're also usually cheaper than buying a smaller light or medium duty truck. An ex highway rig that was well maintained can have LOTS of life left in it.
A bonus is if you are capable to to a lot of the maint. and repairs yourself.
AZbillsfan said
04:39 PM Oct 1, 2014
The FL60 IS a medium duty truck.
The Junkman said
05:41 PM Oct 1, 2014
Sounds like your mind is set..
Roll with it. All that matters is you. Ultimately you are on your own out there. Who care what other people think..
Can't help on the spec of the FL60.. I'm one of those Ram guys.
Flyerone said
05:56 PM Oct 1, 2014
Do people typically use this kind of tow vehicle as a site seeing and grocery getter? Or do they have a separate vehicle that travels with them?
bigboomer said
06:05 PM Oct 1, 2014
As Terry noted total weight of your RV is what you need to determine what TV you will need to be safe. As being for being shunned.....never heard or seen it, in fact based on experience you will get more curiosity seekers and questions about your set-up than negative comments.
Good luck!
Les
bigboomer said
06:08 PM Oct 1, 2014
Flyerone,
We use ours all the time around town, no issues. When stationary for a long period we will use our M/C ' s more often for quick jaunts.
TRAILERKING said
06:25 PM Oct 1, 2014
AZbillsfan wrote:
The FL60 IS a medium duty truck.
Sorry but my brain was pre-programmed for the HDT in mind.
TheHarveys said
07:16 AM Oct 2, 2014
A few months ago, we traded our 2008 Ford F450 for a 2007 International 4400 medium duty truck. The truck only had about 76,000 miles on it when we bough it; barely broke in for the DT570 diesel motor.
Our Carri-Lite weighs about 18,500 lbs. loaded for a vacation and we felt like it tended to push the F450 around when we were in the mountains.
We absolutely love the International. It has a 32,000lb. air hitch and has a full air-ride cab and air ride front seats and air brakes. It is very comfortable when towing. Once on the open road, we just set the cruise control to the desired speed and go. There is no detectable presence of the trailer when towing. The trailer does not boss the truck around at all. If you were wearing a blindfold, you would not be able to tell that we were towing anything.
Yes, it was expensive, but no more so than the new F450 we were also considering. The International also gets better mileage than the old F450 did. Though I understand the 08 Ford diesel trucks were not known for their mileage and the newer ones are undoubtably better.
As an aside, we are not full-timers so we use the truck as one of our regular drivers. I sometimes commute in it and the DW loves driving it around town. It has 22.5 tires that I may only have to replace because they get too old. I expect the tread to last at least 100,000 miles. Visibility is excellent from the driver's seat and it feels very planted on the road. It is actually easier to drive than the old F450 was.
Jack Mayer said
07:53 AM Oct 2, 2014
You may wish to consider the benefits of an HDT if looking in the Fl60 category. The advantages are many. Take a look at my website (link in sig lines), and visit the Escapees forum (link on my website). Also take a look at some of Gregg Shields (RV-Haulers) videos - again, link from my website. Decisions like this are best made with all the data available so as to not have a "do over" later. While an HDT does not meet everyones needs, you need to educate yourself on the benefits (and negatives) in order to make a proper decision.
Some think they know about HDTs because they "once drove for a living". If you have not been in a modern HDT then you need to re-educate yourself. Because they are totally different than the ones I "once drove for a living" many years ago in my youth. You might also wish to come to the HDT Rally that is going to happen in a few weeks. Not too late to go - you can "walk in" any time and register onsite. No limitation as to the number of attendees.
My personal opinion is that unless you have a REQUIREMENT for 4 doors then the MDT has little value as compared to the HDT. You might have a different opinion and that is all that counts....but it is best to form opinions based on data. Feel free to email me if you need additional info. Email is on my website, and it might be in the profile here. Please do not use the private message feature here....
Terry and Jo said
09:44 AM Oct 2, 2014
Cindy and Jeff's comment deserves a follow-up comment by me. Our 2008 F450 has the 4:88 rear differential ratio, which makes the truck pull very well on slopes and in the mountains, but it does cause worse fuel mileage. However, I've never seen a situation where I felt that our Mobile Suites (weighing 18,500 lbs) "pushed" our truck around. The F450 with that 4:88 rear axle has no issues with towing the trailer.
As for the HDT, I am one of those that formerly drove 18-wheelers. My reason for not wanting an HDT was that I prefer the better visibility of having windows all around me and not having to rely on mirrors only to see behind and to the side of me. When we test drove a couple of the SportsChassis trucks on the Freightliner frame and body, those had the windows, although the back window was about useless.
Terry
TheHarveys said
12:04 PM Oct 2, 2014
In regards to Jack and Terry's comments regarding HDTs. I would have bought a heavy duty truck as I am sure I could have had one for the same or less than the price I paid for the International. However, as we are not full-timers and we still own a home in a mature neighborhood, we are constrained by things like height limits in town. For example, on neighborhood surface streets, our city only requires a height of 10 feet between the surface of the street and any overhanging branches. As you can imagine, we already have to plan special routes to get our trailer to our house without having to drag it through a bunch of trees on some surface street. If I owned a HDT with a height of over 10 feet, then I would also be very limited as to what streets I could navigate and every trip in the truck would involve special planning to get from point A to point B.
In my neighborhood, I routinely see delivery trucks, garbage/recycling trucks, etc. tearing down large branches as they navigate surface streets and are forced to use their own lane by traffic.
A HDT just did not make good sense for us. Now, if I were a full-timer...
Terry,
My F450 also had the 4:88 rear-end gears. I also added a full air-ride rear suspension system and an air-ride fifth wheel hitch. We pulled the trailer all over the United States with that truck with no issue. However, we had traded a 2000 Ford F550, setup as a western hauler, for the F450 and we were just never quite satisfied with the overall performance of the F450. In our opinion, it never felt quite as stable under load as the F550 and certainly not as stable as the International feels under load.
I can only speak from my own experience and I do not intend to come across as a truck "bigot". I feel generally that people should drive whatever they feel comfortable driving. For us, that is the International.
The Junkman said
02:46 PM Oct 2, 2014
I was wondering why I was bouncing off trees here.. must be 10 ft here too..
Also, many local bridges, I've seen are 10 ton limit. Just saying...Drive over 2 of them just to get to where I am.. and there is 3 Rv campgrounds here too..
Glenn West said
04:45 PM Oct 3, 2014
I would never recommend an HDT for a daily driver. It is as tall as camper so that is a wash towing. Some do and have. Jack is one of them. A singled 610 Volvo is smaller than a cc lb dually. Same width just as wide in front as back. One benefit of an HDT not mentioned here is the option of caring a small car or Jeep on the deck. They do get longer with that option though. Never seen an MDT with a vehicle on deck and if one did it would be underpowered. Have you driven that mdt bob tail yet? Unless it is full air ride it will have some very stiff suspension. I would not want it for a daily commute. I have also noted on here that some group mdt/hdt together. There is nothing to compare. An HDT is a far superior truck in comfort and power. Also has microwave, fridge, bed.
bigboomer said
05:36 PM Oct 3, 2014
Glenn,
We carry our bikes in the garage and when fully loaded we have no issues with power and no issues stopping. We are full airbride cab and seats and air ride rear. Our Bigboomer rides very comfortably bobtail ing around town.
With the DT570 (Maxx force 9) and Allison 3000 tranny we get good MPG both towing and bobtailing.
MarkS said
10:13 PM Oct 3, 2014
An MDT will easily carry a car along with the 5ver. Most are rated at 54k pounds GCVW. when using an MDT or HDT the brakes on the trailer are really moot. Not to say that in a hard stop they wouldn't be necessary but in normal driving you can stop without overloading the tractor. Remember, a heavy 5ver equates to an empty refer trailer. The only way not to be satisfied with an MDT is to get used to an HDT first.
HDTs are not for everyone. I comfortably operate an HDT anywhere, including downtown San Francisco, with a 53' trailer. I have a full condo so it is nearly 13'6" tall. Full class 8 tractors also come in a much shorter configuration between 8 and 10 feet tall.
You have to decide what fits you.
Jack Mayer said
08:48 AM Oct 4, 2014
A couple of comments:
You absolutely have to do what is comfortable for your circumstances. As pointed out, there are downsides to an HDT or MDT that you have to think through. I recommend talking to people with experience on these points. Neighborhood access and trees are an issue. So are zoning restrictions if you are not fulltiming. Do NOT assume you can keep an MDT or HDT on your property. In fact, some zoning even restricts F450's - although that is not as prevalent.
An MDT can carry a car just fine. It is just the by the time you extend the frame and make other adjustments, and consider power issues, you might as well use an HDT that is more "naturally" suited to the task.
You do not need to get a "full height" HDT like Mark and I have now. My previous Volvo 610 was set up as a daily driver and the only real difference between it and my previous F450 was the height, which was 10' 10". It was a slight issue in trees, but really not a big deal. It was our only vehicle for 3+ years.
Typical these days with an HDT is use of a smart car which is carried on deck. Now before people jump on the "bad smart" bandwagon, you better collect your facts. It is not a "death vehicle". In fact, even though I thought I would not like it I actually do. It has negatives, like anything else, but it is a very nice touring vehicle for 2 people. Would I own a smart if I had a house and was not fulltiming? Probably not - there are better choices for that situation. But for fulltiming it is pretty good. The alternative is to drive your favorite vehicle behind.
IMO, visibility is not an issue with an HDT at ALL. You sit up high, like in a motorhome, you have outstanding side and fender mirrors, and the use of a simple camera system enables far better rearward vision than an MDT with windows. Or an F450 with windows. I've had them all, and the HDT visibility is a not a big deal. You have blind spots like any vehicle but the fender mirrors basically eliminate that. It IS "different" than a pickup...but not necessarily worse...just different.
One of the things WE really like about the HDT is the ability to take it for a 3-4 day trip and use it as a motorhome. It works quite well for US and OUR circumstances. But it would not work in that fashion as well for more than 2 people. The reality is that alone I comfortably spend unlimited time living it it, and together we easily do a week or more without thought. And rementer, the car is piggyback, so that is what we run around in. Don't think it is comfortable, or has the proper amenities? Well, it has everything a motorhome has except a shower, and those are easily arranged....Is it "ideal"? No, it is equivalent to small motorhome - not our 45' luxury/custom 5er. But it works well.....
The Junkman said
07:19 PM Oct 4, 2014
There's one of these for sale over on Escapees for 25k.. fyi
We are planning our full-time adventure and are looking at several heavy Fifth Wheels (example: unloaded vehicle weight 16,200). We want reliable and safe so we don't want to tow at max level through mountains, etc. We feel we would be most comfortable with a medium duty versatile hauler type truck. We found an Freightliner FL60 single rear axle which appears to have been well-maintained. Is this "over-kill"? Will we be "shunned" by other campers? We appreciate any/all thoughts!
Georgia,
First of all, welcome to the RV Dreams forums. You will find a lot of knowledgeable folks here that can provide answers, advice, and encouragement. So, join the fun.
As for the Freightliner, there are a lot of folks out there that are using them, so I don't really think you would have any issues. Besides, the most important thing is to select a truck that works best to make you comfortable with driving it and pulling a trailer behind. At the time we were doing our research, we considered a used SportsChassis, which is built on the MDT Freightliner frame and is customized in Oklahoma. Our only issue with them was that we couldn't afford the SportChassis and the trailer we wanted.
However, I wouldn't even look at the empty weights on trailers when making your choice. Always look at the GVWR (Gross Vehicular Weight Rating) of the trailer when considering trucks. If the larger light duty trucks (F350/3500 series trucks) don't appeal to you, consider both the FL60 style and the HDT (Heavy Duty Truck) trucks. One can find the HDT's used for a lot less money than many of the others.
Good luck with your research and planning.
Terry
As long as you know how and are comfortable.......and properly licensed to operate it that's the way to go.
Better power, better braking, better handling...........and more.
They're also usually cheaper than buying a smaller light or medium duty truck. An ex highway rig that was well maintained can have LOTS of life left in it.
A bonus is if you are capable to to a lot of the maint. and repairs yourself.
The FL60 IS a medium duty truck.
Roll with it. All that matters is you. Ultimately you are on your own out there. Who care what other people think..
Can't help on the spec of the FL60.. I'm one of those Ram guys.
Do people typically use this kind of tow vehicle as a site seeing and grocery getter? Or do they have a separate vehicle that travels with them?
Sorry but my brain was pre-programmed for the HDT in mind.
Our Carri-Lite weighs about 18,500 lbs. loaded for a vacation and we felt like it tended to push the F450 around when we were in the mountains.
We absolutely love the International. It has a 32,000lb. air hitch and has a full air-ride cab and air ride front seats and air brakes. It is very comfortable when towing. Once on the open road, we just set the cruise control to the desired speed and go. There is no detectable presence of the trailer when towing. The trailer does not boss the truck around at all. If you were wearing a blindfold, you would not be able to tell that we were towing anything.
Yes, it was expensive, but no more so than the new F450 we were also considering. The International also gets better mileage than the old F450 did. Though I understand the 08 Ford diesel trucks were not known for their mileage and the newer ones are undoubtably better.
As an aside, we are not full-timers so we use the truck as one of our regular drivers. I sometimes commute in it and the DW loves driving it around town. It has 22.5 tires that I may only have to replace because they get too old. I expect the tread to last at least 100,000 miles. Visibility is excellent from the driver's seat and it feels very planted on the road. It is actually easier to drive than the old F450 was.
You may wish to consider the benefits of an HDT if looking in the Fl60 category. The advantages are many. Take a look at my website (link in sig lines), and visit the Escapees forum (link on my website). Also take a look at some of Gregg Shields (RV-Haulers) videos - again, link from my website. Decisions like this are best made with all the data available so as to not have a "do over" later. While an HDT does not meet everyones needs, you need to educate yourself on the benefits (and negatives) in order to make a proper decision.
Some think they know about HDTs because they "once drove for a living". If you have not been in a modern HDT then you need to re-educate yourself. Because they are totally different than the ones I "once drove for a living" many years ago in my youth. You might also wish to come to the HDT Rally that is going to happen in a few weeks. Not too late to go - you can "walk in" any time and register onsite. No limitation as to the number of attendees.
My personal opinion is that unless you have a REQUIREMENT for 4 doors then the MDT has little value as compared to the HDT. You might have a different opinion and that is all that counts....but it is best to form opinions based on data. Feel free to email me if you need additional info. Email is on my website, and it might be in the profile here. Please do not use the private message feature here....
Cindy and Jeff's comment deserves a follow-up comment by me. Our 2008 F450 has the 4:88 rear differential ratio, which makes the truck pull very well on slopes and in the mountains, but it does cause worse fuel mileage. However, I've never seen a situation where I felt that our Mobile Suites (weighing 18,500 lbs) "pushed" our truck around. The F450 with that 4:88 rear axle has no issues with towing the trailer.
As for the HDT, I am one of those that formerly drove 18-wheelers. My reason for not wanting an HDT was that I prefer the better visibility of having windows all around me and not having to rely on mirrors only to see behind and to the side of me. When we test drove a couple of the SportsChassis trucks on the Freightliner frame and body, those had the windows, although the back window was about useless.
Terry
In my neighborhood, I routinely see delivery trucks, garbage/recycling trucks, etc. tearing down large branches as they navigate surface streets and are forced to use their own lane by traffic.
A HDT just did not make good sense for us. Now, if I were a full-timer...
Terry,
My F450 also had the 4:88 rear-end gears. I also added a full air-ride rear suspension system and an air-ride fifth wheel hitch. We pulled the trailer all over the United States with that truck with no issue. However, we had traded a 2000 Ford F550, setup as a western hauler, for the F450 and we were just never quite satisfied with the overall performance of the F450. In our opinion, it never felt quite as stable under load as the F550 and certainly not as stable as the International feels under load.
I can only speak from my own experience and I do not intend to come across as a truck "bigot". I feel generally that people should drive whatever they feel comfortable driving. For us, that is the International.
Also, many local bridges, I've seen are 10 ton limit. Just saying...Drive over 2 of them just to get to where I am.. and there is 3 Rv campgrounds here too..
HDTs are not for everyone. I comfortably operate an HDT anywhere, including downtown San Francisco, with a 53' trailer. I have a full condo so it is nearly 13'6" tall. Full class 8 tractors also come in a much shorter configuration between 8 and 10 feet tall.
You have to decide what fits you.
A couple of comments: