Ultra-Fab Trailair v. MOR/ryde 5th Wheel King Pin Box
7point3diesel said
12:21 PM Sep 26, 2014
So I really wanted a Reese Airborne Sidewinder king pin box, but I recently discovered that it wouldn't fit my king pin box :( I've got the Fabex 730 & my service technician & Reese have both confirmed that the Airborne will not go on my 5th wheel. Now I'm looking at the Ultra-Fab Trailair Air Ride 5th Wheel King Pin & the Cushioned MOR/ryde Fifth Wheel King Pin Does anyone have any direct experience with either or both of these devices? Any stories, advice, etc would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance :)
Terry and Jo said
02:10 PM Sep 28, 2014
Of those two at the two different links, the MorRyde might be best for you because it has the feature to help reduce or eliminate the "chucking" motion of the truck and trailer. We have the Trail-Air pin box, but ours has what is called Tri-Glide on it. The Tri-Glide for the Trail-Air is the feature that reduces or eliminates the chucking. That particular link just shows a "straight" Trail-Air pin box without Tri-Glide.
As for our Trail-Air with the Tri-Glide, we are very happy with it. However, our Mobile Suites also has the Trail-Air suspension at the axles, so our ride is very comfortable.
The image here is of our Trail-Air pin box with the Tri-Glide. You can see the Tri-Glide plate below the main pin box. The three grease zerks on the side are to lubricate the Tri-Glide. There are also three more zerks on the opposite side and yet three more in the center that are accessible from behind and underneath. One just needs the flexible tubes on one's grease gun to reach those inside ones.
Terry
The Junkman said
05:17 PM Sep 28, 2014
I have the mor/ryde one.. Only pulled the 20kb rig once for 10 hours straight..
Started cautiously slow first.. but was in cruise control at 70 in a hour.. I was that comfortable..
No buck, chuckin.. what ever.. No special super duper hitch either.. just a curt 24k.. And I had airbag set soft at 45 psi..
Check around.. I think you will find people prefer the mor/ryde over the trail air..I seen alot on this over on the DRV forum.
Rob_Fla said
06:42 PM Sep 28, 2014
Our last 5th Wheel came with the MorRyde Pin Box, our current 5th Wheel has the Trail Air Tri Glide Pin Box.
Our last 5th Wheel weighted about 15,700 lbs., our current 5th Wheel weights about 16,300 lbs..
We also have the Curt 24K hitch.
Both Pin Boxes work well, no chucking problems with either one, the Trail Air does have a Air Bag that cushions the 5er on rough roads but it does take a few trips to figure out what air pressure in the Air Bag works best.
Glenn West said
07:55 PM Sep 28, 2014
Had the Trail air on my DRV and it chucked with 4400# pin with a Companion hitch on a 2005 GMC dually.
Bill and Linda said
04:09 PM Sep 30, 2014
7point3diesel wrote:
So I really wanted a Reese Airborne Sidewinder king pin box, but I recently discovered that it wouldn't fit my king pin box :( I've got the Fabex 730 & my service technician & Reese have both confirmed that the Airborne will not go on my 5th wheel. Now I'm looking at the Ultra-Fab Trailair Air Ride 5th Wheel King Pin & the Cushioned MOR/ryde Fifth Wheel King Pin Does anyone have any direct experience with either or both of these devices? Any stories, advice, etc would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance :)
Yes, I have experience with both products over a lot of miles.
The ideal combination is a MOR/ryde pin box with an air-ride hitch such as the Trailer Saver.The MOR/ryde does the absolute best job of cushioning the “chucking.”However, a vertical air cushion is really necessary with a heavier pin weight.I define heavier as anything around 3K and up.
Other than cost, the only disadvantage of this arrangement is that the air ride hitch, such as the Trailer Saver, weights more and depending on a lot of weight factors could start “pushing” the rear axle weight ratings of some trucks, including the F-450.It’s about the numbers, not the brand and how much everything weighs.But in most situations you won’t have an issue with the Trailer Saver’s added weight.
Naturally for the best possible ride, in addition to the above suggestions put a MOR/ryde IS suspension on the trailer and eliminate the springs totally.With this suggestion I have 7 years and many miles of experience with before and after and there is no comparison once you totally eliminate springs in any form.
Bill
The Junkman said
05:36 PM Sep 30, 2014
Bill and Linda wrote:
7point3diesel wrote:
So I really wanted a Reese Airborne Sidewinder king pin box, but I recently discovered that it wouldn't fit my king pin box :( I've got the Fabex 730 & my service technician & Reese have both confirmed that the Airborne will not go on my 5th wheel. Now I'm looking at the Ultra-Fab Trailair Air Ride 5th Wheel King Pin & the Cushioned MOR/ryde Fifth Wheel King Pin Does anyone have any direct experience with either or both of these devices? Any stories, advice, etc would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance :)
However, a vertical air cushion is really necessary with a heavier pin weight. I define heavier as anything around 3K and up.
Doesn't a airbag system such as air ride, under the truck, accomplish the same thing?
and then add the moryd pin box, for the best of both worlds ?
Bill and Linda said
06:02 PM Sep 30, 2014
The Junkman wrote:
Bill and Linda wrote:
7point3diesel wrote:
So I really wanted a Reese Airborne Sidewinder king pin box, but I recently discovered that it wouldn't fit my king pin box :( I've got the Fabex 730 & my service technician & Reese have both confirmed that the Airborne will not go on my 5th wheel. Now I'm looking at the Ultra-Fab Trailair Air Ride 5th Wheel King Pin & the Cushioned MOR/ryde Fifth Wheel King Pin Does anyone have any direct experience with either or both of these devices? Any stories, advice, etc would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance :)
However, a vertical air cushion is really necessary with a heavier pin weight. I define heavier as anything around 3K and up.
Doesn't a airbag system such as air ride, under the truck, accomplish the same thing?
and then add the moryd pin box, for the best of both worlds ?
No sir, it does not and I have direct experience to back that up.(This is a Jack line of “ask me how I know this.”)The air ride pin box or an air ride hitch is a world of improvement from just air bags, or even full air-ride on the truck.
You need the air ride hitch or pin box so the trailer and truck can operate independently going over “bumps” vertically – especially the truck going over bumps – such that the pin can float over the bump the truck’s rear axle takes.
I have experience with and without air ride hitches / pin box on the exact same truck and trailer, with the truck having air-bags, and there is daylight and dark between the forces on the truck and the trailer.Trust me on this one.
Bill
The Junkman said
06:14 PM Sep 30, 2014
The rv dealers are pushing the moryd pin box over the trail air..
And most folks who have had both prefer the moryd..
They say it resolves the chucking much better than the trail air.. almost 2 to 1 it seems..
Thoughts?
I understand verically.. but what about horizontal.. that seems to be the real problem people try to fix?
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
08:13 PM Sep 30, 2014
The MorRyde pin takes care of the horizontal plane.
Putting airbags on the truck is only a leveling feature, they do nothing for the up and down movement created by potholes etc. They do give my truck a better ride when aired to 40-45psi when hitched, as they increase the space between the standard spring pack and the overload springs so we don't get any jaring in the truck. WHile technically that should give the pin a smoother ride, its nothing like having a true air hitch (bagged).
BiggarView said
08:11 AM Oct 1, 2014
Simple physics tell you that truck airbags do not perform the same task as an airbagged hitch or dampened pin box. Truck airbags are primarily supplimental to absorb shocks from the road, the cushioned hitches or pin boxes do that for the trailer that is resting on the truck. Same function overall in that they both decelerate shock forces, but different in their use. At least that's the way I see it.
Brian
Howard said
07:08 AM Oct 2, 2014
We have nine years of experience with the MOR/ryde pin box and wouldn't have anything else on the market currently.
Though we don't have personal towing experience with the Trailair, we weigh a lot of fifth wheel/truck combinations in our role with RVSEF. We see far more chucking issues with the Trailair which is designed to take out the up and down shock but doesn't help as much with the front to back chucking. The MOR/ryde is designed more to control the chucking problem and it does help with the up and down, but not as much. I agree with Bill (Bill & Linda) that the best combination is an air hitch (for the up and down) and the MOR/ryde kingpin (for the front to back). However, we've done just fine without an air hitch and just have a double pivot "regular" Husky hitch with the MOR/ryde kingpin.
Now with that said, I believe many people with the Trailair do not have the airbag adjusted properly (as Rob alluded to) which could be the reason we see so much more chucking with the Trailair. For what it's worth, we see the same issues with the Fifth Airborne kingpin which is basically the same as a Trailair only engineered in reverse with the shock absorber and airbag in the back instead of the front, but the problem is more noticeable to us with the Trailair.
Though not nearly as often, we do see chucking with the MOR/ryde pin boxes as well, but the MOR/ryde pin boxes have different rubber shear springs depending on the GVWR of the fifth wheel. If the fifth wheel is overloaded, the shear spring may not be "stiff" enough and, thus, chucking occurs. Or, sometimes the shear spring has just worn out over time and needs to be replaced.
Also, many people do not have their brake controllers set properly, so that will cause more chucking with any pin box.
The above comments relate to typical pick-up truck/fifth wheel combinations. The dynamics change with larger Medium Duty and Heavy Duty trucks in which case even MOR/ryde says their kingpin may not be the best solution depending on the hitch and truck/trailer configuration.
Bill and Linda said
09:47 AM Oct 2, 2014
Allow me to add one comment to Howard’s excellent explanation.
I said I felt trailers that have over 3K pin weight need an air ride hitch.I’ll modify that comment to say this from now very long distance 5er towing experience.The major “chucking” problem with most 5ers with pin weights up to about 3,700lbs can be handled extremely well by the MOR/ryde pin box as to the horizontal “chucking” issue.That is the one that bothers most people. The MOR/ryde works well even with trailers and pins above that arguably rough number of 3,700lbs but then you really need an air-ride hitch in addition to the MOR/ryde product.
Once you get into the heavier pin weights the truck’s suspension simply doesn’t have the vertical travel necessary to absorb hard / severe bumps with over 1-1/2 TONS of vertical pressure being applied by the trailer pin. The air-ride pin box or air ride hitch allows the truck to take “its hit” without the trailer taking that vertical hit from the truck’s rear axle and then rebounding.If you have ever seen with and without an air-ride hitch (regardless of brand) in the rear view mirror of the truck going over bad places in the road you will know exactly what I am describing.That’s the reason I recommend for most trailers both the MOR/ryde hitch first for “chucking” and if you have a heavy pin then an air-ride hitch in addition to the MOR/ryde.Both will do a lot to save the trailer frame and the truck suspension not to mention your nerves.
The maximum GVWR rating MOR/ryde provides is 24,000GVWR for the trailer. But that covers the large majority of the trailers in use on this forum.
Bill
The Junkman said
04:12 PM Oct 2, 2014
I think the air ride hitches top out at 20k.. after that there is a monster that can be "adapted" for use.. but is designed for med duty truck and hdt.. not pick ups..and still only 20k ( so why use that one? I don't know.) www.trailersaver.com/product/tslb2h-air-ride-hitch/
Even with the ford adapter.. it's still only rated to only 20k..
So.. Take it for what it is worth.. on a pick up.. I could not use their best solution , as it would not be safe.. and meet the specs of my weight..( 23k )
Just so people are aware.. these are not for pick ups.. unless you are under the 20k mark..
Maybe I missed stuff.. Not sure, but that is what it appears to me..Am I getting confused about hitches and pin mounts? maybe? lol
On the trail airs, am I missing something.. biggest one I see is only 21k rating.. ?
-- Edited by The Junkman on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 04:13:34 PM
-- Edited by The Junkman on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 04:18:09 PM
-- Edited by The Junkman on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 04:21:27 PM
Bill and Linda said
05:33 PM Oct 2, 2014
The Junkman wrote:
I think the air ride hitches top out at 20k.. after that there is a monster that can be "adapted" for use.. but is designed for med duty truck and hdt.. not pick ups..and still only 20k ( so why use that one? I don't know.) www.trailersaver.com/product/tslb2h-air-ride-hitch/
Even with the ford adapter.. it's still only rated to only 20k..
So.. Take it for what it is worth.. on a pick up.. I could not use their best solution , as it would not be safe.. and meet the specs of my weight..( 23k )
Just so people are aware.. these are not for pick ups.. unless you are under the 20k mark..
Maybe I missed stuff.. Not sure, but that is what it appears to me..Am I getting confused about hitches and pin mounts? maybe? lol
On the trail airs, am I missing something.. biggest one I see is only 21k rating.. ?
Actually, yes you are:
The TSLB2H Air-Ride Hitch, rated at 32K, is available with standard rail mounts for those needing over a 20K rated Trailer Saver Hitch for use in a “pickup” such as the RAM3500HD but don’t care to do a full bolt-in bed mount.The “Ford” adapter is not necessary.
This hitch is in common use with many trailers pulled by “pickups” over 20K but not mounted in a larger MDT such as a Freightliner or a true HDT.
Works fine, is a little heavier, but well worth the weight penalty with a high pin weight trailer.
Another option is the E.T. Junior or the Air-Safe Hitch capable at 25K trailer and 5K pin weight. The Air Safe Hitch uses the same head as the 32K Trailer Saver.
On edit: I should have noted, we parked beside a 2014 23K Mobile Suites a couple of nights ago with a 24K MOR/ryde pin box and 25K / 5K pin, Air Safe air ride hitch in the back of a 2015 Ford F-450 - on rails.No hauler bed or aux tank on the Ford, but it worked weight wise OK on the 450 rear axle weights without those two options.
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 05:40:05 PM
The Junkman said
07:23 PM Oct 2, 2014
Bill and Linda wrote:
The Junkman wrote:
I think the air ride hitches top out at 20k.. after that there is a monster that can be "adapted" for use.. but is designed for med duty truck and hdt.. not pick ups..and still only 20k ( so why use that one? I don't know.) www.trailersaver.com/product/tslb2h-air-ride-hitch/
Even with the ford adapter.. it's still only rated to only 20k..
So.. Take it for what it is worth.. on a pick up.. I could not use their best solution , as it would not be safe.. and meet the specs of my weight..( 23k )
Just so people are aware.. these are not for pick ups.. unless you are under the 20k mark..
Maybe I missed stuff.. Not sure, but that is what it appears to me..Am I getting confused about hitches and pin mounts? maybe? lol
On the trail airs, am I missing something.. biggest one I see is only 21k rating.. ?
Actually, yes you are:
The TSLB2H Air-Ride Hitch, rated at 32K, is available with standard rail mounts for those needing over a 20K rated Trailer Saver Hitch for use in a “pickup” such as the RAM3500HD but don’t care to do a full bolt-in bed mount. The “Ford” adapter is not necessary.
This hitch is in common use with many trailers pulled by “pickups” over 20K but not mounted in a larger MDT such as a Freightliner or a true HDT.
Works fine, is a little heavier, but well worth the weight penalty with a high pin weight trailer.
Another option is the E.T. Junior or the Air-Safe Hitch capable at 25K trailer and 5K pin weight. The Air Safe Hitch uses the same head as the 32K Trailer Saver.
On edit: I should have noted, we parked beside a 2014 23K Mobile Suites a couple of nights ago with a 24K MOR/ryde pin box and 25K / 5K pin, Air Safe air ride hitch in the back of a 2015 Ford F-450 - on rails. No hauler bed or aux tank on the Ford, but it worked weight wise OK on the 450 rear axle weights without those two options.
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 05:40:05 PM
Links are posted..
Hopefully people read the details.
Bill and Linda said
07:33 PM Oct 2, 2014
Steve:
There are options available from Trailer Saver that are not on the website.Further, if you choose, as I pointed out, you can get an air ride hitch rated at 25K / 5K pin if you want one.That’s the point I was addressing.
-30-
The Junkman said
05:02 AM Oct 3, 2014
Bill and Linda wrote:
Steve:
There are options available from Trailer Saver that are not on the website. Further, if you choose, as I pointed out, you can get an air ride hitch rated at 25K / 5K pin if you want one. That’s the point I was addressing.
-30-
Not on the website? whats the deal with that? lol Custom? I'm sure your signing off liabilities on that one..
It's not about me..
I evaluated and made my choice months ago..
And I really don't/didn't see the NEED. That was part of my point..
I ran 10 hours with 20k, with a Curt 24k , and the Moryd.. I had no issue at all.. Nothing.No bucking, chucking, rode level, ran like nothing behind me.. And most of time I ran 70 mph.. passing people etc.. no issues. So far, I think I made the right choice..
5k pin scares me too. When that front of that 23k rv hits a dip, and your loaded to 5k.. I think you could see double that pressure on the hitch..Personally I would not load those bags that much..Tractor trailers blow them all the time.. I expect any airbag can be blown..Not sure what would happen if it blows? Crush the bed?
All that said.. I am certain it would give you a little smoother ride on rough road.. But not much compared to a moryd/curt / air ride bags.
If I was a mdt/hdt I would think it's must have.. very stiff suspension, and you need it.. But the ram rides like a caddy..
I just want people to think about it.. consider all the downsides too.. then choose.
I'm a newbie.. and this is my opinion.
Steve
-- Edited by The Junkman on Friday 3rd of October 2014 05:04:21 AM
7point3diesel said
02:26 PM Oct 3, 2014
Bill and Linda wrote:Naturally for the best possible ride, in addition to the above suggestions put a MOR/ryde IS suspension on the trailer and eliminate the springs totally.
-Bill
Interesting, can you talk more about the suspension modification you did on the trailer?
Thanks :)
7point3diesel said
02:28 PM Oct 3, 2014
The Junkman wrote:
The rv dealers are pushing the moryd pin box over the trail air.. And most folks who have had both prefer the moryd..
They say it resolves the chucking much better than the trail air.. almost 2 to 1 it seems..
Thoughts?
I understand verically.. but what about horizontal.. that seems to be the real problem people try to fix?
x2.
My dealer was also pushing MOR/ryde over "the more expensive Trail Air" -his words.
I'm still undecided...
7point3diesel said
02:58 PM Oct 3, 2014
The Junkman wrote:5k pin scares me too. When that front of that 23k rv hits a dip, and your loaded to 5k.. I think you could see double that pressure on the hitch..Personally I would not load those bags that much..Tractor trailers blow them all the time.. I expect any airbag can be blown..Not sure what would happen if it blows? Crush the bed?
-Steve
Last month when I was researching pickup truck suspension on the pickup forums I read about bags blowing underneath pickup trucks that had converted from leaf springs. No doubt that would be scary under fully loaded conditions.
Has anyone ever had experience with or heard of hitch / kingpin bags blowing?
Bill and Linda said
03:19 PM Oct 3, 2014
7point3diesel wrote:
Bill and Linda wrote:Naturally for the best possible ride, in addition to the above suggestions put a MOR/ryde IS suspension on the trailer and eliminate the springs totally.
-Bill
Interesting, can you talk more about the suspension modification you did on the trailer?
Thanks :)
It is an independent suspension system – hence the “IS” label – that is installable on almost any trailer.It comes in various weight capacities 7 – 8 – 9K, etc. and is considered to be the one of, if not the best available suspension system for 5ers’ or tag trailers for that matter.
It is fully align-able, just like an automobile.The most important item next to the wheels operating independently is that it uses no leaf springs.Therefore it has a great deal more vertical travel range.That’s the deal.Springs, even with air-bags between them, don’t have the same vertical travel range and hence can bottom out or actually get lifted off the road.
It can be retrofitted to any rig and if you rig doesn’t run level with your truck MOR/ryde can do a frame lift so it will.Not a big deal for them.Had it done on one of my rigs.
Howard, Jack Mayer, myself and a lot of others have either upgraded to this suspension system or have ordered it on new rigs.
The installation work is best done, IMO, at the MOR/ryde factory in Elkhart where they also have the laser alignment equipment to make it track perfectly.
MOR/ryde can also install, if you don’t already have them, disc brakes and they also have an arrangement with Trailer Tire and Wheel if you want to put “H” tires on your rig. Both are a huge improvement in safety. If you already have disc brakes then they can be put on the MOR/ryde IS and save those dollars.
Having towed the same trailer with the same truck before and after installation of the IS I can say it is, IMO, a big deal.The trailer simply rides better and according to Howard and Linda’s reports, doesn’t “bounce around” like it used to with springs. We've had it all over the US, Canada and Alaska and it was well worth the investment.
Some OEM’s in the Elkhart area, DRV, Lifestyle, etc. actually use MOR/ryde to do the installation work on their new rigs before delivery.
There are a lot of possibilities to improve the ride of your rig.This is one of the best many of us can recommend who have traveled a lot of miles over many years.
Feel free to ask more or PM if I can help.
Bill
7point3diesel said
03:46 PM Oct 3, 2014
Bill and Linda wrote:It is an independent suspension system – hence the “IS” label – that is installable on almost any trailer....
It is fully align-able, just like an automobile.The most important item next to the wheels operating independently is that it uses no leaf springs.Therefore it has a great deal more vertical travel range.That’s the deal.Springs, even with air-bags between them, don’t have the same vertical travel range and hence can bottom out or actually get lifted off the road.
-Bill
Nice, so it replaces the leaf springs with shocks? I'm I looking at that right?
What's a system like this cost? Parts cost? Labor cost?
Thanks, this setup looks awesome!
Bill and Linda said
04:54 PM Oct 3, 2014
7point3diesel wrote:
Bill and Linda wrote:It is an independent suspension system – hence the “IS” label – that is installable on almost any trailer....
It is fully align-able, just like an automobile.The most important item next to the wheels operating independently is that it uses no leaf springs.Therefore it has a great deal more vertical travel range.That’s the deal.Springs, even with air-bags between them, don’t have the same vertical travel range and hence can bottom out or actually get lifted off the road.
-Bill
Nice, so it replaces the leaf springs with shocks? I'm I looking at that right?
What's a system like this cost? Parts cost? Labor cost?
Thanks, this setup looks awesome!
The shocks, just like on a car, are there to dampen rebound.They do no support.The support of the trailing link beam, which carries the spindle, (axle) is supported on two ganged rubber supports.The flexing of the rubber is dependent on the weight requirement and can be changed depending on the rigs needs.Other than a shot of grease in the torque arm just to keep excessive moisture out they require zero maintenance.
This is the same type of trailing beam system used on larger business jets.(On smaller aircraft as well – like Mooney’s)Not surprising as the IS was designed by a former aircraft engineer.The design specifically allows a much larger vertical range of travel than a steel leaf spring and there is no transfer of road bounce between wheels.It’s independent, just like on a car.
Cost, well like any quality equipment, it isn’t inexpensive like a leaf spring.
If you are interested you’ll have to contact the factory and tell them what you have and what you want.“It depends.”You’ll also need to make an appointment.Don’t just show up.They’re busy and generally just can’t take walk-in work.
Gary Wheeler is a very good rep - (574) 293-1581 Ex222gary.wheeler@morryde.comKnown Gary for a long time professionally.Howard works with him as well and did at the last rally.If he’s not in, leave a message, he will get back to you or try the email.
Tell him “Bill, who always wants Sergio to do his work” sent you and he’ll only charge you 5% more.Just kidding.I get no commission.Just been doing business with them since 2006.We generally stop by MOR/ryde once a year just to make sure everything is OK as we do travel quite a bit.If all you’re doing is residing in the rig, i.e. not RV traveling, this is not worth the money, IMO.
Hope this helps
Bill
BiggarView said
05:49 PM Oct 3, 2014
Bill and Linda wrote:
...We generally stop by MOR/ryde once a year just to make sure everything is OK as we do travel quite a bit.If all you’re doing is residing in the rig, i.e. not RV traveling, this is not worth the money, IMO....
Bill, just curious, how little RV travel would you consider enough to justify the IS package? We think it's probably worthwhile for our plans and that will likely be enough for us but curious about your take on it.
Brian
Bill and Linda said
07:37 PM Oct 3, 2014
biggaRView wrote:
Bill and Linda wrote:
...We generally stop by MOR/ryde once a year just to make sure everything is OK as we do travel quite a bit.If all you’re doing is residing in the rig, i.e. not RV traveling, this is not worth the money, IMO....
Bill, just curious, how little RV travel would you consider enough to justify the IS package? We think it's probably worthwhile for our plans and that will likely be enough for us but curious about your take on it.
Brian
Brian:
You know, that’s a tough question because everyone’s resources are different.But, as Danielle Mayer once said to us: “You know, this is our home.”I think that kind of sets a different perspective then someone who is doing the weekend RV thing.
Certainly some rigs come with the MOR/ryde IS as a standard feature.Others offer it as an OEM, option.That is, the rig comes new with the IS installed.Others, like us with our previous trailer, had to have it installed aftermarket.There really isn’t any quality difference whether it comes OEM or aftermarket.If you understand how suspensions are installed this will be an obvious fact and the improvement is just as good aftermarket as OEM – maybe better in some cases as you can get the rig running level with your truck which most rigs don’t direct from the factory.That’s a big deal as to proper weight distribution on the axles. Another subject.
If you are planning on moving once or twice a year – the old run up or down I-95 from the north to Florida trip thing, unless the IS is standard equipment, I probably wouldn’t spend the money aftermarket.But if I could order it OEM, or if I planned on actually traveling in the RV, moving each month or even close to that, I’d spend the money, and did.After all, for many, it is “your home” and I would treat it appropriately as I would my sticks and bricks.
Your question actually ties in with what I personally consider the three most important safety upgrades for a trailer:#1 and #2 would be to put on “H” tires and disc brakes.IMO, both those are actually not options. #3 would be the MOR/ryde IS.Those three items working together can really improve multiple aspects of safety in addition to ride quality for our homes.My opinion - I hope that answer was what you were looking for because “it does depend.”
Bill
BiggarView said
04:20 AM Oct 4, 2014
Bill, you confirmed what we were thinking. I examined the IS on a DRV we saw recently at local dealer, which was also equipped with the disc brakes and the 17.5 114 tires. Compared to the other rigs we have seen that trifecta looked solid and upto the task they were designed for. Yeah, it adds a lot to the price but I can definitely see why one would want it on their rig.
Brian
Glenn West said
02:22 PM Oct 4, 2014
Just a note to clear up something on the Trailersaver TSLB2H hitch. Hensely adds a third air bag to get 7500# pin rating. I'm getting it or the Myairsafe.
TwistyTony said
06:42 AM May 24, 2016
Great wealth of experience on this subject here.
My rig has a pretty light pin, I actually had to move the rear axles back, to increase the pin weight, as from the time I brought it home, it wagged (swayed) like a dog--after much research, new tires, yes even a new tow vehicle with dual rear wheels, I discovered the unthinkable! The manufacture completely missed the 15% of weight on the pin design mark. My pin weight was less then 400 pounds on an 9000 pound trailer! I moved the axles back and now have a pin weight of about 1,500 pounds. It tows like a dream now.
I do want to address the "chucking" so I started looking at the Pin Box alternatives. I don't really want to get a heavier hitch, as I like to remove it when I am camped for very long and use my Truck Bed. So I thought an air pin box would provide the chucking problem and also the suspension of the pin, like a air hitch would, without the weight of the air hitch.
It seems, however that if chucking is my goal--MoreRyde would be the answer. Preservation of the Trailer Chassis, would have to wait until I'm in the market for another hitch--or am I over thinking it with such a light pin weight and relatively light trailer--???
Thanks in advance for passing on your experience and wisdom.
Bill and Linda said
02:37 PM May 24, 2016
TwistyTony wrote:
Great wealth of experience on this subject here.
My rig has a pretty light pin, I actually had to move the rear axles back, to increase the pin weight, as from the time I brought it home, it wagged (swayed) like a dog--after much research, new tires, yes even a new tow vehicle with dual rear wheels, I discovered the unthinkable! The manufacture completely missed the 15% of weight on the pin design mark. My pin weight was less then 400 pounds on an 9000 pound trailer! I moved the axles back and now have a pin weight of about 1,500 pounds. It tows like a dream now.
I do want to address the "chucking" so I started looking at the Pin Box alternatives. I don't really want to get a heavier hitch, as I like to remove it when I am camped for very long and use my Truck Bed. So I thought an air pin box would provide the chucking problem and also the suspension of the pin, like a air hitch would, without the weight of the air hitch.
It seems, however that if chucking is my goal--MoreRyde would be the answer. Preservation of the Trailer Chassis, would have to wait until I'm in the market for another hitch--or am I over thinking it with such a light pin weight and relatively light trailer--???
Thanks in advance for passing on your experience and wisdom.
If indeed your pin weigh is that light then I'd say put on the MOR/ryde pin box and go on. Be sure and give MOR/ryde your weights so they can put in the appropriate rubber "spring" in the pin box. There are several choices and they will build one based on your rigs weight.
You have proven a known fact - light pins are as bad - and more dangerous - as overly heavy ones. 16% is still pretty light but apparently its towing OK. This light pin "wagging" thing is definitely something to look out for in a trailer regardless of size.
TwistyTony said
05:42 PM May 24, 2016
I actually read the design manual white papers from Dexter for trailer suspension dynamics... light pins are a full on design flaw... known to be a problem by any trailer design engineer worth his monthly salary. Glendale RV is dead and gone--I like my trailer--the more I re-engineer things myself the better I like it. But, I think they were trying to make this one (shortest and lightest in their product line) towable with a 1/4 ton truck... maybe an El Camino (LOL). Which it would do. But the tow-ability of it suffered so severely as to be just dangerous to tow. I aligned it, put bigger sway bars on my truck, aligned the truck, put 16" wheels and E rated tires on it (it came with c's and 15's), all at the behest of the Tech Support guy at Glendale. Finally, weighed the pin one day--to find it was less then 500 pounds. Reading the Dexter Design Book-- 10-20%, with 15% being a good spot to start... My pin should be between 1000 and 2000lbs. Also, the spindly little flat bar that holds the leaf springs was suspect to allowing the sway to propagate, so I moved the axles back as far as I could, and boxed out the running gear supports, dialed in the ride height, and now it tows like a dream-- truck rides great-- all because of the pin weight. Yes, you are right, in my case, I've proven a heavy pin is better then a light one--unless your tow vehicle can't suspend the weight--then you have a new problem. It's all about balance isn't it? The more we live life, the more we know--it's about the balance baby!
I bought a Air Safe Pin Box today. One of the few companies that makes both pin boxes and hitches with air-- he said while both are compatible, it's not necessary to have both air pin and air hitch--at least not at my tow and pin weights. Hope this helped others.
Terry and Jo said
10:32 AM May 25, 2016
Note to all reading this:
This thread is almost 2 years old, so keep in mind that some information in the earlier posts may be out of date.
As we've stated numerous times, it is better to start a new thread rather than "revive" an old one. Lately, Howard has been closing some of the older ones that have recently been revived. Look in the box to the left and under the username and avatar to see the dates of the postings and the thread.
So I really wanted a Reese Airborne Sidewinder king pin box, but I recently discovered that it wouldn't fit my king pin box :( I've got the Fabex 730 & my service technician & Reese have both confirmed that the Airborne will not go on my 5th wheel. Now I'm looking at the Ultra-Fab Trailair Air Ride 5th Wheel King Pin & the Cushioned MOR/ryde Fifth Wheel King Pin Does anyone have any direct experience with either or both of these devices? Any stories, advice, etc would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance :)
Of those two at the two different links, the MorRyde might be best for you because it has the feature to help reduce or eliminate the "chucking" motion of the truck and trailer. We have the Trail-Air pin box, but ours has what is called Tri-Glide on it. The Tri-Glide for the Trail-Air is the feature that reduces or eliminates the chucking. That particular link just shows a "straight" Trail-Air pin box without Tri-Glide.
As for our Trail-Air with the Tri-Glide, we are very happy with it. However, our Mobile Suites also has the Trail-Air suspension at the axles, so our ride is very comfortable.
The image here is of our Trail-Air pin box with the Tri-Glide. You can see the Tri-Glide plate below the main pin box. The three grease zerks on the side are to lubricate the Tri-Glide. There are also three more zerks on the opposite side and yet three more in the center that are accessible from behind and underneath. One just needs the flexible tubes on one's grease gun to reach those inside ones.
Terry
Started cautiously slow first.. but was in cruise control at 70 in a hour.. I was that comfortable..
No buck, chuckin.. what ever.. No special super duper hitch either.. just a curt 24k.. And I had airbag set soft at 45 psi..
Check around.. I think you will find people prefer the mor/ryde over the trail air..I seen alot on this over on the DRV forum.
Our last 5th Wheel weighted about 15,700 lbs., our current 5th Wheel weights about 16,300 lbs..
We also have the Curt 24K hitch.
Both Pin Boxes work well, no chucking problems with either one, the Trail Air does have a Air Bag that cushions the 5er on rough roads but it does take a few trips to figure out what air pressure in the Air Bag works best.
Yes, I have experience with both products over a lot of miles.
The ideal combination is a MOR/ryde pin box with an air-ride hitch such as the Trailer Saver. The MOR/ryde does the absolute best job of cushioning the “chucking.” However, a vertical air cushion is really necessary with a heavier pin weight. I define heavier as anything around 3K and up.
Other than cost, the only disadvantage of this arrangement is that the air ride hitch, such as the Trailer Saver, weights more and depending on a lot of weight factors could start “pushing” the rear axle weight ratings of some trucks, including the F-450. It’s about the numbers, not the brand and how much everything weighs. But in most situations you won’t have an issue with the Trailer Saver’s added weight.
Naturally for the best possible ride, in addition to the above suggestions put a MOR/ryde IS suspension on the trailer and eliminate the springs totally. With this suggestion I have 7 years and many miles of experience with before and after and there is no comparison once you totally eliminate springs in any form.
Bill
Doesn't a airbag system such as air ride, under the truck, accomplish the same thing?
and then add the moryd pin box, for the best of both worlds ?
No sir, it does not and I have direct experience to back that up. (This is a Jack line of “ask me how I know this.”) The air ride pin box or an air ride hitch is a world of improvement from just air bags, or even full air-ride on the truck.
You need the air ride hitch or pin box so the trailer and truck can operate independently going over “bumps” vertically – especially the truck going over bumps – such that the pin can float over the bump the truck’s rear axle takes.
I have experience with and without air ride hitches / pin box on the exact same truck and trailer, with the truck having air-bags, and there is daylight and dark between the forces on the truck and the trailer. Trust me on this one.
Bill
And most folks who have had both prefer the moryd..
They say it resolves the chucking much better than the trail air.. almost 2 to 1 it seems..
Thoughts?
I understand verically.. but what about horizontal.. that seems to be the real problem people try to fix?
Putting airbags on the truck is only a leveling feature, they do nothing for the up and down movement created by potholes etc. They do give my truck a better ride when aired to 40-45psi when hitched, as they increase the space between the standard spring pack and the overload springs so we don't get any jaring in the truck. WHile technically that should give the pin a smoother ride, its nothing like having a true air hitch (bagged).
Simple physics tell you that truck airbags do not perform the same task as an airbagged hitch or dampened pin box. Truck airbags are primarily supplimental to absorb shocks from the road, the cushioned hitches or pin boxes do that for the trailer that is resting on the truck. Same function overall in that they both decelerate shock forces, but different in their use. At least that's the way I see it.
Brian
We have nine years of experience with the MOR/ryde pin box and wouldn't have anything else on the market currently.
Though we don't have personal towing experience with the Trailair, we weigh a lot of fifth wheel/truck combinations in our role with RVSEF. We see far more chucking issues with the Trailair which is designed to take out the up and down shock but doesn't help as much with the front to back chucking. The MOR/ryde is designed more to control the chucking problem and it does help with the up and down, but not as much. I agree with Bill (Bill & Linda) that the best combination is an air hitch (for the up and down) and the MOR/ryde kingpin (for the front to back). However, we've done just fine without an air hitch and just have a double pivot "regular" Husky hitch with the MOR/ryde kingpin.
Now with that said, I believe many people with the Trailair do not have the airbag adjusted properly (as Rob alluded to) which could be the reason we see so much more chucking with the Trailair. For what it's worth, we see the same issues with the Fifth Airborne kingpin which is basically the same as a Trailair only engineered in reverse with the shock absorber and airbag in the back instead of the front, but the problem is more noticeable to us with the Trailair.
Though not nearly as often, we do see chucking with the MOR/ryde pin boxes as well, but the MOR/ryde pin boxes have different rubber shear springs depending on the GVWR of the fifth wheel. If the fifth wheel is overloaded, the shear spring may not be "stiff" enough and, thus, chucking occurs. Or, sometimes the shear spring has just worn out over time and needs to be replaced.
Also, many people do not have their brake controllers set properly, so that will cause more chucking with any pin box.
The above comments relate to typical pick-up truck/fifth wheel combinations. The dynamics change with larger Medium Duty and Heavy Duty trucks in which case even MOR/ryde says their kingpin may not be the best solution depending on the hitch and truck/trailer configuration.
Allow me to add one comment to Howard’s excellent explanation.
I said I felt trailers that have over 3K pin weight need an air ride hitch. I’ll modify that comment to say this from now very long distance 5er towing experience. The major “chucking” problem with most 5ers with pin weights up to about 3,700lbs can be handled extremely well by the MOR/ryde pin box as to the horizontal “chucking” issue. That is the one that bothers most people. The MOR/ryde works well even with trailers and pins above that arguably rough number of 3,700lbs but then you really need an air-ride hitch in addition to the MOR/ryde product.
Once you get into the heavier pin weights the truck’s suspension simply doesn’t have the vertical travel necessary to absorb hard / severe bumps with over 1-1/2 TONS of vertical pressure being applied by the trailer pin. The air-ride pin box or air ride hitch allows the truck to take “its hit” without the trailer taking that vertical hit from the truck’s rear axle and then rebounding. If you have ever seen with and without an air-ride hitch (regardless of brand) in the rear view mirror of the truck going over bad places in the road you will know exactly what I am describing. That’s the reason I recommend for most trailers both the MOR/ryde hitch first for “chucking” and if you have a heavy pin then an air-ride hitch in addition to the MOR/ryde. Both will do a lot to save the trailer frame and the truck suspension not to mention your nerves.
The maximum GVWR rating MOR/ryde provides is 24,000GVWR for the trailer. But that covers the large majority of the trailers in use on this forum.
Bill
I think the air ride hitches top out at 20k.. after that there is a monster that can be "adapted" for use.. but is designed for med duty truck and hdt.. not pick ups..and still only 20k ( so why use that one? I don't know.)
www.trailersaver.com/product/tslb2h-air-ride-hitch/
Even with the ford adapter.. it's still only rated to only 20k..
www.trailersaver.com/product/ford-underbed-adapter/
So.. Take it for what it is worth.. on a pick up.. I could not use their best solution , as it would not be safe.. and meet the specs of my weight..( 23k )
Just so people are aware.. these are not for pick ups.. unless you are under the 20k mark..
Maybe I missed stuff.. Not sure, but that is what it appears to me..Am I getting confused about hitches and pin mounts? maybe? lol
On the trail airs, am I missing something.. biggest one I see is only 21k rating.. ?
-- Edited by The Junkman on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 04:13:34 PM
-- Edited by The Junkman on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 04:18:09 PM
-- Edited by The Junkman on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 04:21:27 PM
Actually, yes you are:
The TSLB2H Air-Ride Hitch, rated at 32K, is available with standard rail mounts for those needing over a 20K rated Trailer Saver Hitch for use in a “pickup” such as the RAM3500HD but don’t care to do a full bolt-in bed mount. The “Ford” adapter is not necessary.
This hitch is in common use with many trailers pulled by “pickups” over 20K but not mounted in a larger MDT such as a Freightliner or a true HDT.
Works fine, is a little heavier, but well worth the weight penalty with a high pin weight trailer.
Another option is the E.T. Junior or the Air-Safe Hitch capable at 25K trailer and 5K pin weight. The Air Safe Hitch uses the same head as the 32K Trailer Saver.
On edit: I should have noted, we parked beside a 2014 23K Mobile Suites a couple of nights ago with a 24K MOR/ryde pin box and 25K / 5K pin, Air Safe air ride hitch in the back of a 2015 Ford F-450 - on rails. No hauler bed or aux tank on the Ford, but it worked weight wise OK on the 450 rear axle weights without those two options.
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Thursday 2nd of October 2014 05:40:05 PM
Links are posted..
Hopefully people read the details.
Steve:
There are options available from Trailer Saver that are not on the website. Further, if you choose, as I pointed out, you can get an air ride hitch rated at 25K / 5K pin if you want one. That’s the point I was addressing.
-30-
Not on the website? whats the deal with that? lol Custom? I'm sure your signing off liabilities on that one..
It's not about me..
I evaluated and made my choice months ago..
And I really don't/didn't see the NEED. That was part of my point..
I ran 10 hours with 20k, with a Curt 24k , and the Moryd.. I had no issue at all.. Nothing.No bucking, chucking, rode level, ran like nothing behind me.. And most of time I ran 70 mph.. passing people etc.. no issues. So far, I think I made the right choice..
5k pin scares me too. When that front of that 23k rv hits a dip, and your loaded to 5k.. I think you could see double that pressure on the hitch..Personally I would not load those bags that much..Tractor trailers blow them all the time.. I expect any airbag can be blown..Not sure what would happen if it blows? Crush the bed?
All that said.. I am certain it would give you a little smoother ride on rough road.. But not much compared to a moryd/curt / air ride bags.
If I was a mdt/hdt I would think it's must have.. very stiff suspension, and you need it.. But the ram rides like a caddy..
I just want people to think about it.. consider all the downsides too.. then choose.
I'm a newbie.. and this is my opinion.
Steve
-- Edited by The Junkman on Friday 3rd of October 2014 05:04:21 AM
Interesting, can you talk more about the suspension modification you did on the trailer?
Thanks :)
x2.
My dealer was also pushing MOR/ryde over "the more expensive Trail Air" -his words.
I'm still undecided...
Last month when I was researching pickup truck suspension on the pickup forums I read about bags blowing underneath pickup trucks that had converted from leaf springs. No doubt that would be scary under fully loaded conditions.
Has anyone ever had experience with or heard of hitch / kingpin bags blowing?
It is an independent suspension system – hence the “IS” label – that is installable on almost any trailer. It comes in various weight capacities 7 – 8 – 9K, etc. and is considered to be the one of, if not the best available suspension system for 5ers’ or tag trailers for that matter.
It is fully align-able, just like an automobile. The most important item next to the wheels operating independently is that it uses no leaf springs. Therefore it has a great deal more vertical travel range. That’s the deal. Springs, even with air-bags between them, don’t have the same vertical travel range and hence can bottom out or actually get lifted off the road.
It can be retrofitted to any rig and if you rig doesn’t run level with your truck MOR/ryde can do a frame lift so it will. Not a big deal for them. Had it done on one of my rigs.
Howard, Jack Mayer, myself and a lot of others have either upgraded to this suspension system or have ordered it on new rigs.
The installation work is best done, IMO, at the MOR/ryde factory in Elkhart where they also have the laser alignment equipment to make it track perfectly.
MOR/ryde can also install, if you don’t already have them, disc brakes and they also have an arrangement with Trailer Tire and Wheel if you want to put “H” tires on your rig. Both are a huge improvement in safety. If you already have disc brakes then they can be put on the MOR/ryde IS and save those dollars.
http://www.morryde.com/aftermarket/suspension/independent-suspension-system-37.html
Having towed the same trailer with the same truck before and after installation of the IS I can say it is, IMO, a big deal. The trailer simply rides better and according to Howard and Linda’s reports, doesn’t “bounce around” like it used to with springs. We've had it all over the US, Canada and Alaska and it was well worth the investment.
Some OEM’s in the Elkhart area, DRV, Lifestyle, etc. actually use MOR/ryde to do the installation work on their new rigs before delivery.
There are a lot of possibilities to improve the ride of your rig. This is one of the best many of us can recommend who have traveled a lot of miles over many years.
Feel free to ask more or PM if I can help.
Bill
Nice, so it replaces the leaf springs with shocks? I'm I looking at that right?
What's a system like this cost? Parts cost? Labor cost?
Thanks, this setup looks awesome!
The shocks, just like on a car, are there to dampen rebound. They do no support. The support of the trailing link beam, which carries the spindle, (axle) is supported on two ganged rubber supports. The flexing of the rubber is dependent on the weight requirement and can be changed depending on the rigs needs. Other than a shot of grease in the torque arm just to keep excessive moisture out they require zero maintenance.
This is the same type of trailing beam system used on larger business jets. (On smaller aircraft as well – like Mooney’s) Not surprising as the IS was designed by a former aircraft engineer. The design specifically allows a much larger vertical range of travel than a steel leaf spring and there is no transfer of road bounce between wheels. It’s independent, just like on a car.
Cost, well like any quality equipment, it isn’t inexpensive like a leaf spring.
If you are interested you’ll have to contact the factory and tell them what you have and what you want. “It depends.” You’ll also need to make an appointment. Don’t just show up. They’re busy and generally just can’t take walk-in work.
Gary Wheeler is a very good rep - (574) 293-1581 Ex222 gary.wheeler@morryde.com Known Gary for a long time professionally. Howard works with him as well and did at the last rally. If he’s not in, leave a message, he will get back to you or try the email.
Tell him “Bill, who always wants Sergio to do his work” sent you and he’ll only charge you 5% more. Just kidding. I get no commission. Just been doing business with them since 2006. We generally stop by MOR/ryde once a year just to make sure everything is OK as we do travel quite a bit. If all you’re doing is residing in the rig, i.e. not RV traveling, this is not worth the money, IMO.
Hope this helps
Bill
Bill, just curious, how little RV travel would you consider enough to justify the IS package? We think it's probably worthwhile for our plans and that will likely be enough for us but curious about your take on it.
Brian
Brian:
You know, that’s a tough question because everyone’s resources are different. But, as Danielle Mayer once said to us: “You know, this is our home.” I think that kind of sets a different perspective then someone who is doing the weekend RV thing.
Certainly some rigs come with the MOR/ryde IS as a standard feature. Others offer it as an OEM, option. That is, the rig comes new with the IS installed. Others, like us with our previous trailer, had to have it installed aftermarket. There really isn’t any quality difference whether it comes OEM or aftermarket. If you understand how suspensions are installed this will be an obvious fact and the improvement is just as good aftermarket as OEM – maybe better in some cases as you can get the rig running level with your truck which most rigs don’t direct from the factory. That’s a big deal as to proper weight distribution on the axles. Another subject.
If you are planning on moving once or twice a year – the old run up or down I-95 from the north to Florida trip thing, unless the IS is standard equipment, I probably wouldn’t spend the money aftermarket. But if I could order it OEM, or if I planned on actually traveling in the RV, moving each month or even close to that, I’d spend the money, and did. After all, for many, it is “your home” and I would treat it appropriately as I would my sticks and bricks.
Your question actually ties in with what I personally consider the three most important safety upgrades for a trailer: #1 and #2 would be to put on “H” tires and disc brakes. IMO, both those are actually not options. #3 would be the MOR/ryde IS. Those three items working together can really improve multiple aspects of safety in addition to ride quality for our homes. My opinion - I hope that answer was what you were looking for because “it does depend.”
Bill
Bill, you confirmed what we were thinking. I examined the IS on a DRV we saw recently at local dealer, which was also equipped with the disc brakes and the 17.5 114 tires. Compared to the other rigs we have seen that trifecta looked solid and upto the task they were designed for. Yeah, it adds a lot to the price but I can definitely see why one would want it on their rig.
Brian
Great wealth of experience on this subject here.
My rig has a pretty light pin, I actually had to move the rear axles back, to increase the pin weight, as from the time I brought it home, it wagged (swayed) like a dog--after much research, new tires, yes even a new tow vehicle with dual rear wheels, I discovered the unthinkable! The manufacture completely missed the 15% of weight on the pin design mark. My pin weight was less then 400 pounds on an 9000 pound trailer! I moved the axles back and now have a pin weight of about 1,500 pounds. It tows like a dream now.
I do want to address the "chucking" so I started looking at the Pin Box alternatives. I don't really want to get a heavier hitch, as I like to remove it when I am camped for very long and use my Truck Bed. So I thought an air pin box would provide the chucking problem and also the suspension of the pin, like a air hitch would, without the weight of the air hitch.
It seems, however that if chucking is my goal--MoreRyde would be the answer. Preservation of the Trailer Chassis, would have to wait until I'm in the market for another hitch--or am I over thinking it with such a light pin weight and relatively light trailer--???
Thanks in advance for passing on your experience and wisdom.
If indeed your pin weigh is that light then I'd say put on the MOR/ryde pin box and go on. Be sure and give MOR/ryde your weights so they can put in the appropriate rubber "spring" in the pin box. There are several choices and they will build one based on your rigs weight.
You have proven a known fact - light pins are as bad - and more dangerous - as overly heavy ones. 16% is still pretty light but apparently its towing OK. This light pin "wagging" thing is definitely something to look out for in a trailer regardless of size.
I actually read the design manual white papers from Dexter for trailer suspension dynamics... light pins are a full on design flaw... known to be a problem by any trailer design engineer worth his monthly salary.
Glendale RV is dead and gone--I like my trailer--the more I re-engineer things myself the better I like it. But, I think they were trying to make this one (shortest and lightest in their product line) towable with a 1/4 ton truck... maybe an El Camino (LOL). Which it would do. But the tow-ability of it suffered so severely as to be just dangerous to tow. I aligned it, put bigger sway bars on my truck, aligned the truck, put 16" wheels and E rated tires on it (it came with c's and 15's), all at the behest of the Tech Support guy at Glendale. Finally, weighed the pin one day--to find it was less then 500 pounds. Reading the Dexter Design Book-- 10-20%, with 15% being a good spot to start... My pin should be between 1000 and 2000lbs. Also, the spindly little flat bar that holds the leaf springs was suspect to allowing the sway to propagate, so I moved the axles back as far as I could, and boxed out the running gear supports, dialed in the ride height, and now it tows like a dream-- truck rides great-- all because of the pin weight. Yes, you are right, in my case, I've proven a heavy pin is better then a light one--unless your tow vehicle can't suspend the weight--then you have a new problem. It's all about balance isn't it? The more we live life, the more we know--it's about the balance baby!
I bought a Air Safe Pin Box today. One of the few companies that makes both pin boxes and hitches with air-- he said while both are compatible, it's not necessary to have both air pin and air hitch--at least not at my tow and pin weights. Hope this helped others.
Note to all reading this:
This thread is almost 2 years old, so keep in mind that some information in the earlier posts may be out of date.
As we've stated numerous times, it is better to start a new thread rather than "revive" an old one. Lately, Howard has been closing some of the older ones that have recently been revived. Look in the box to the left and under the username and avatar to see the dates of the postings and the thread.
Terry