We are in the early stages of looking at large bumper pull trailers, for our planned 2016 departure on a one year tour of the country. We walked through one of these:
...and were very impressed with the layout. The build quality seems to be slightly better than average. We have a 2002 Chevrolet 2500HD with the 8.1 gasser and Allison 5 speed, to tow with. According to the information I have found, I should be well within the safe towing ability of the truck. Do any of you own one of these trailers, or have a good/bad/neutral opinion of Jayco, in general?
We looked at a few fifth wheels, but with two adults and two teens, by the time we get up to a usable size, the weight is off the charts.
All input appreciated. We will likely be making a purchase next fall, so I want to get the research done early!
Thanks, Kyle
Terry and Jo said
06:53 PM Aug 29, 2014
Kyle,
I've no opinion on the Jayco as I've never looked at them, but I do have a couple of questions or points to bring up for you.
1. Have you looked at one personally and considered the amount of storage space it gives? With four people, travel trailers generally are limited.
2. When looking at weights, do not go by the truck manufacturer's "towing weight." You want to know what the GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicular Weight) for the truck is to begin with. Then, get the GVWR (Gross Vehicular Weight Rating) for the trailer. Then add the trailer's GVWR to the "practical" weight of the truck to see what the two weigh combined. (Practical weight is the truck with full fuel, all passengers, and cargo that you plan to carry in the truck itself.
If you can, try to find one configured (bed-wise) as you would like. Then, check to see if that bed will be comfortable.
Jayco seems to have a good reputation, but I'm no judge of that either pro or con.
Good luck in your research and planning.
Terry
PIEERE said
07:18 PM Aug 29, 2014
All I know about Jayco is the company has been around since Coachman. If you can get a chance; ask for a tour of their factory. Find out if the floors; cabinets; drawers; etc. are real wood or particle or wafer board glued together; pressure treated plywood is best. Check to see if the framing in the walls are wood or aluminum and if the windows have framing around them. Aluminum usually lasts longer. How is their warranty and does it cover delamination as I've seen campers 5-6 yrs. old where the siding is bulging from the glue not holding when sweat gets between the layered walls. It is a heck of situation when you have 12-15 yrs. of payments and the unit don't last 5-6 yrs.
As far as trucks pulling Terry and Jo gave good advice; always have more truck carrying capacity than the weight of the trailer. When I use the brakes I expect the vehicle to stop and when I approach a mountain I expect it will pull it over it and when I let off the accelerator expect the engine compression to assist holding the speed down. I have only heard good things about GM's Allison Transmissions.
SnowGypsy said
06:30 AM Aug 30, 2014
Kyle: Are you only going to keep the trailer for the year that you will be traveling? We have had a couple of Jayco products, used ones, and we were considering buying a new one for our "adventure" so I joined the owner's group. To me, Jayco like many other manufacturers is not making the product they used to when it comes to quality. Jayco does nearly everything in-house which gives them a price advantage for an equal quality unit. I do not like OSB which is my biggest issue with Jayco and many of the other manufacturers and I don't care for the fiberglass sandwich bonded side wall, roof and especially the floor. I suggest joining the Jayco owner's forum for specific information. I have standards across the board that no one could probably ever meet but I intend to come close on getting what I want. I am RV world obsessed.
I went and checked that particular model and the cargo carrying capacity is 2240 lbs. This is one of the issues that I have found when looking at the Jayco travel trailers because even if you go bigger (we are planning for ultra-small compared to most), the cargo capacity seems to sit around the 2000 lb mark. I do notice this in 5th wheels with different manufacturers also where they show lots of storage room but when you look at the actual capacity in weight, it just doesn't compute and the opportunity to overload.......... Take a few items and stick them on the bathroom scales, you can hold a box or bundle while you stand on the scale to and just get feel for how fast the weight will go up. Think of things like canned goods, sport equipment, dishes and other kitchen items, clothing/shoes, etc. and this cargo capacity does not take into account the weight of fresh water (except in the water heater usually), gray or black water. Fill the fresh water tank and that takes away 672 lbs of your carrying capacity.
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Saturday 30th of August 2014 08:38:19 AM
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Saturday 30th of August 2014 08:39:20 AM
Bill and Linda said
07:55 AM Aug 30, 2014
Welcome, Kyle:
The Jayco, IMO, is one of the better entry line trailers.Many purchase a Jayco for weekending and extended trips. I know of those who full-time in them and if treated well should serve you. IMO, you get a lot for the money and the company is still going strong. You should see the lot near Middlebury, IN. But just keep in mind the Jayco is not what some would call a “heavy duty” trailer.
As to the truck: That’s the good old 454 big block expanded to almost 500 ci in the 8.1 version.Coupled with the Alison it’s a great gas engine / transmission combination.The 454/455 blocks were the towing beasts back in the day before light duty diesels were finally developed – at least the ones that worked well.I had three of them and they are a great combination with the Allison and all gave me zero trouble.
That said, I’d be more comfortable with a dual rear wheel truck due to the length of the trailer – not so much the total weight.The truck is more than capable, especially with the 8.1/Alison combination, of towing that trailer and within trailer weight specifications - even with a 3.76 rear end which is likely what it has installed.But make sure the hitch weight of the trailer, listed at well over 1,000lbs, is within the specs for that year of truck using an equalizing hitch.Chevy, Ford and Dodge 2500 series truck frames, back in the day, were not as capable as those of today’s vintage with the same badge on the side. So just double check on those numbers, they will be in the owner’s manual.
Also, it is critical that the equalizing hitch is properly installed to allow the truck and trailer to run level.Running level is critical for several reasons, but mostly to make sure the front truck tires are not lifted.If they are lifted you will have steering control issues. It’s dangerous if the rig isn’t level.
We used this truck to tow 10,000 lb trailers for a long time.Not an issue.But they were 34 feet long.Not almost 40.You will notice when a semi passes you with a 40 foot tag trailer even with double sway control installed.That’s the reason for suggesting possibly dual rear wheels – better stability with a long trailer.Not trailer weight.
Enjoy the hunt.
Vagabond said
01:31 PM Aug 30, 2014
Terry,
Thanks for the weight information. I did some digging, and with both truck and trailer at absolute max weight, I am still under the 22,000lb GCWR, by 2000lbs. I can't imagine loading either truck or trailer anywhere new those limits. I need to find a local weigh station, and get the actual number for my truck, with the four of us in it, and a few sandbags to simulate gear.
What does concern me, is tongue weight. Is the 1200lb rating a hard number, or is it a limitation of the actual factory hitch? The dry trailer tongue weight is listed at 1140lbs. Seems too close, if this is something that a good hitch, and airbags won't overcome. I am a little unclear on how the weight distribution bars affect this rating also, but I suppose that's for another thread. I'll keep Googling!
Pieere, I will definitely check into the construction quality of several different trailers in our budget. (Under 40k) I will also look for used, as well. I am not a finish carpenter by trade, but I have a decent eye for what is excellent/good/slapped together on a hangover Monday. The Jayco warranty is 2 years, and a quick Google of the Better Business Bureau complaints only shows 20 or so for the last few years. Some of those sounded legit, a lot sounded a bit hysterical (Asking them to fix delamination 7 years after purchase). Thanks for the tips.
Gypsy. I'd love to have a trailer built to my specs as well. Unfortunately, I don't have the money for an Airstream. I am not a huge fan of OSB either, but then again, my house is built out of it also. Pretty hard to get away from, anymore, unfortunately. It does stand up to a lot of things better than plywood, and neither like water, so it may be a toss up, in the end? The penciled-in plan is to keep whatever we get for about 10 years. That works out to 4k a year, if the thing literally fell apart went to the scrap yard at the end of that time. I am very good at repairing things, and maybe more importantly, spotting small problems before they become large ones. As for the cargo carrying capacity, I am (tentatively) not too concerned with that. One of the benefits to me, of this whole idea, is getting rid of stuff. Really living lean, if you will. I will definitely make a list of everything that will go, and write down the total weights. Hope you find the perfect trailer!
Bill and Linda, I'd love to have a dually, but it isn't in the cards financially. The truck we have now is paid off, and believe it or not, only has 25k on the clock. It has the 4.10 rear end. I currently tow a 28' cargo trailer with it, and it does get a little nervous in crosswinds, or the gusts from a semi. I do not have any sway control or equalizers on it at all. I am considering installing airbags, and will certainly go with the best of the best, when it comes to tires and shocks. I've been looking at aftermarket hitches, as well. The factory units don' seem to be held in high regard, from what I have read. If I have to make an adjustment to the plan, it will have to be a smaller trailer. I briefly looked at diesel dually trucks, but $60,000 cooled that idea off in a hurry!
Thanks again, you have all given me serious food for thought!
Regards, Kyle
kb0zke said
01:58 PM Aug 30, 2014
"I do not have any sway control or equalizers on it at all." Get an equalizing hitch with sway control and you won't ever pull without it.
Like others, I'd be a bit concerned about the small difference between the trailer's gross weight and the empty weight. Remember that any options you add come out of that difference, as does the water you carry, and all of the other stuff (food, dishes, clothes, etc.) that you will have with you. You are considering full-timing for a year, and the general advice for full-timing is that you should have 1,000 to 1,500 pounds per person. It looks like you will be a bit short on carrying capacity with this rig.
I'm not saying not to buy this, but please do a bit of more research. "I'd rather ask 1,000 questions before writing a large check than ask one question 1,000 times afterward."
Bill and Linda said
02:08 PM Aug 30, 2014
Kyle:
Actually you probably do have the money for an Airstream and the hitch weight, loaded, will most likely be well under the 1,200 lbs limitation on the truck.And yes, that’s a hard number.Airbags can be used to level a truck – and should be in many cases – but they do not increase the load carrying capability one pound.
Back to the Airstream:Look for used Airstreams.Unlike many trailers they hold up better and owners tend to take care of them.Go look for ads especially at Airstream specific parks.You can many times pickup a used unit and bring it up to snuff for less money than a new Jayco.Your truck would be perfect for those and would be within spec.
This is one place to call and see what they have on the sales board.There are many of these "Harbors."Search around a bit.
People at these Land Yacht Harbors will know of people who do reburbishments, etc. or you can do much of it yourself if required based on your comments.Airstreams have “good bones.”20 year old Airstreams are not “old” like a 10 year old, well, something else.People in these parks tend to sell them in the spring or early fall for various personal reasons.
Yes, you want an aftermarket class IV receiver hitch for the truck.Most factory hitches, GM included in the far past, aren’t really up to serious towing with equalizer hitches on the OEM receivers.With only 25K mileage on the truck, assuming it has been maintained, it will be a great match to an Airstream. I wouldn't replace it either.I speak from some 30+ years of family experience with this type of truck and trailer combination. There is no tag trailer that tows better than an Airstream.It even has a type of independent suspension.No springs and all the issues with them.Great rig I would consider based on what you’ve said and the truck.
Trust this helps to give some ideas.
SnowGypsy said
03:43 PM Aug 30, 2014
I don't know if this will help but can't hurt to look it over: http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-trailer-weight-tt.shtml You might get 10 years out of the Jayco that you are looking at if you take really good care of it. Most people don't realize just how much care one needs to stay in shape which, if you look at the used market, you'll notice right off. In the used market, high end is the way to go. We have been debating that, lower end new or higher end used.
Vagabond said
03:43 PM Sep 1, 2014
David, I am just beginning the hunt for our trailer, so I will look at many before deciding on one. This Jayco is one of two models we have looked at, the other being Augusta. I've never heard of Augusta before, but the trailer looked very nice. I am really trying to wrap my brain around these weight per-person figures. Clothes for 4 people, (One week supply each), maybe 250lbs of hobby and entertainment stuff, food, a generator, and 4 bicycles. A 240lb dual sport motorcycle in the truck bed will serve as a grocery getter. That's about all I want, or need to haul with us. We plan to rent a 10x10 storage, at $600 for a year, until we decide if we really like the lifestyle, so all of our "Can't get rid of" stuff will go in there. We are used to dry camping with about fifteen gallons of water, for a couple of days, and I don't plan to travel with full tanks, unless it's for a short distance to dump them. One of my many reasons for wanting to do this, is to rid myself of the albatross around my neck called stuff. I certainly don't want two tons of junk riding along with me! Feel free to correct my logic. I may very well be missing something. Bill and Linda, I love the quality of the Airstreams, but I guess I should have been more clear. We really want slide outs, for the more open feeling they give. I was mostly using Airstream as a metaphor for "High quality". With some background in aviation, I do love formed and riveted aluminum, though! Since the tongue weight is a hard number, is the 10% below max rule still applicable? If the truck will handle 1200, and assuming airbags and levelers, would 1080lbs be safe, or would that be pushing my luck? If the tongue weight increases while loading stuff, is it acceptable to shift it to the rear of the trailer while moving from place to place, to bring the tongue weight back in line? I plan to purchase a tongue weight scale. I've wanted one for a long time, and for a hundred bucks, it seems like a smart investment. Gypsy, thanks for the link. I squirreled it away in my favorites. I am definitely open to used, and will be looking hard at that market, when the time comes. Thanks folks! Kyle
-- Edited by Vagabond on Monday 1st of September 2014 03:45:10 PM
kb0zke said
12:44 PM Sep 4, 2014
Water is just over 8 pounds per gallon. A lot of people have some sort of home base, whether a S&B or a storage shed, and keep extra stuff there. Then they find that the jackets are in St. Louis and they are in Yellowstone - in August. Oops.
As for weights, the tongue weight of a TT is generally 10-15% of the trailer's weight. For planning purposes you can use the gross weight of the trailer. Once you get the trailer you can get it loaded, then weigh it and redistribute weight if necessary to get the tongue weight just right. There are several threads here about doing the math to match truck and trailer. When you are figuring the gross combined weight be sure that you include the weight of that bike in the back of the truck as well as the people, pets, and stuff in it. Again, the easiest way is to just load everything up and get it weighed.
Sushidog said
03:15 PM Sep 5, 2014
Vagabond wrote:
I am really trying to wrap my brain around these weight per-person figures. Clothes for 4 people, (One week supply each), maybe 250lbs of hobby and entertainment stuff, food, a generator, and 4 bicycles. A 240lb dual sport motorcycle in the truck bed will serve as a grocery getter. That's about all I want, or need to haul with us. We plan to rent a 10x10 storage, at $600 for a year, until we decide if we really like the lifestyle, so all of our "Can't get rid of" stuff will go in there. We are used to dry camping with about fifteen gallons of water, for a couple of days, and I don't plan to travel with full tanks, unless it's for a short distance to dump them. One of my many reasons for wanting to do this, is to rid myself of the albatross around my neck called stuff. I certainly don't want two tons of junk riding along with me! Feel free to correct my logic. I may very well be missing something. Kyle
-- Edited by Vagabond on Monday 1st of September 2014 03:45:10 PM
Dear Kyle,
The low CCC of the Jayco (which is an otherwise great trailer for the price) would be a deal breaker for me. I am planning on FTing in a TT in the near future so I have considered this subject every carefully.
The most frequently found limiting factor I often see for FT use is carrying capacity. Even after pruning your possessions to a tiny fraction of what you own now will still be quite heavy. I've found that often the actual CCC of units on the dealer's lot is usually a couple hundred lbs lower than advertised because of many "options" like a spare tire, ac, awning, battery, etc. add hidden weight and are not really optional. I recommend that you look at the actual CCC on the weight sticker inside your trailer before you pull the trigger.
Let's look at some of the things that typically eat up an RVs CCC. Let's say you don't carry any water, that's a weight savings there, but it limits your dry camping and boondocking ability. Do you plan on staying in FHU CGs only? Deciding not to carry water restricts where you can stay - eliminating about 1/2 of the places I'd like to go. Maybe your plans are different, but consider this self imposed limitation carefully.
Other things that add weight is propane, so add 60 lbs of propane (plus the weight of the tanks, if not included), and 50-75 lbs of batteries- more if you want to boondock. Next, add the contents of your fridge, a full ice chest, pantry, clothes (4 seasons worth for 4 people), shoes for 4, linens, towels, etc for 4, foam topper for beds, window coverings/decorations, kitchen appliances (toaster ovens, blender, mixer, rice pot, coffee pot, slow cooker, dishwasher, etc.) kitchen utensils, pots and pans, plates, glasses, silverware, misc. household items like lamps, chairs, washer/drier, etc., toiletries, medical supplies, cleaning supplies (vacuum, mop and broom) and chemicals, folding chairs, recliners, floor/door mats, tarps, rope and chains, screen rooms/tentage, toys (bikes, hobby and sporting equipt., fishing gear, hunting gear, guns and ammo, motorcycles, ATVs, helmets and riding gear), TV/DVD/satellite equipt., stereo/music gear, game systems/computers, printers, safe, locks and security system, portable heaters, generator/spare fuel, solar panels (controller, inverter, cabling and extra heavy batteries) - disregard if you won't be staying at anything other than FHU sites), sewage and fresh water hoses and fittings, electrical cords, surge protector, leveling gear, water filters, macerator pump, portable dump tanks, patio/camping lights, lanterns, tables, BBQ grill/fuel, screen room, tentage, tools (very heavy), spare parts for TT, bike and truck, topper or camper for truck (to protect your bike and carry more gear), pet supplies, cages, etc.
Only you know what you will be carrying, but it could easily exceed your weight limit - even if you travel with dry tanks and live a relatively minimalist lifestyle. Then there's souvenirs you will accumulate during your travels and things you will buy later, along the road, that you didn't know you needed or wanted until you start the lifestyle. Think Lucille Ball and rocks - in other words DW and D kids may each have a slightly different idea of what's essential to take with them. ;)
With 4 people onboard, I'd consider something in the 4,000 lb CCC range. This means a toy hauler, as there are few TTs available with this large of CCC - including the Airstreams. Some of the few suitable TTs are used 2012-2013 Gulfstream Conquest 295sbw or Trailmaster 299sbw. Both are towable by your truck, with a with a UVW of 6767 lbs and a CCC of 4473 lbs each. Note: the newer models have lighter wheels/axles and have downgraded carrying capacity. Another TT that has lowered their CCC recently is Palomino Puma 30RKSS. Before 2014 it had a UVW of 6,945 lbs and a CCC of 4,183 lbs now it has been reduced to only 2,721 lbs of CCC due to lighter running gear.
Good luck,
Chip
Vagabond said
02:36 PM Sep 6, 2014
David, I will use those tips, for sure. I will be crawling under whatever trailers we look at, to see what the rear of the frame looks like. I have done a lot of welding/fabrication work over the years, and am envisioning a custom built motorcycle carrier for the rear of the trailer. The motorcycle in question is small, (Yamaha XT225), and weighs in around 240. A welded mount of sufficient strength would likely weigh another 100lbs. Just enough bike to haul Wifey and I to the corner store, or me alone with a backpack to do laundry.
Chip, I have also been looking at the Augusta Flex AT-32RE. Can't say I have heard of the brand, and there is only one dealer in our state selling them. There are a lot of dealers in the midwest and southern US. Day to day repairs of plumbing, electrical, and slide mechanicals I can handle myself. Only need for a dealer would be major warranty service, of some kind. Not sure how much of a benefit purchasing a Jayco would be, based only on their massive dealer network? The Augusta offers much lighter tongue weight, and an advertised 4200lb payload capacity. Unfortunately, this puts the GVWR of the trailer about 1400lbs over the stated max for the truck to pull on "the bumper", so absolute max we could haul would still be in the 2500lb range, even with the greater sticker capacity.... I'm just going to have to break out the bathroom scales, and do some serious weighing, of every possible thing we might haul with us.
Time will tell, and it sure seems like there are no shortage of options out there!
Regards, Kyle
Sushidog said
08:27 PM Oct 26, 2014
Vagabond, I researched the CCC of the Augusta Flex AT-32RE and it seems to be only 943 lbs., not the 4,200 lb. payload capacity they list on their website. www.dickgoresrvworld.com/product/new-2014-augusta-rv-flex-at-32-re-132163-5 According to this link the UVW of the TT is 8335 lbs. and the GVWR is only 9856 lbs.
I wonder which is accurate? I'd be sure to look at the weight sticker before making a decision on this model.
Chip
TRAILERKING said
09:28 PM Oct 26, 2014
Don't be praising up JAYCO too much.......I had 2006 27' JAYCO BAJA trailer. It had the same issues like talked about in this Forum. When I talked to JAYCO(Dealer) they admitted to knowing about issues with the TPO roofing product they were using. Water would actually penetrate the membrane and rot the wood structure behind it. You could actually see darker coloured patches where the membrane was penetrated with water. This was nothing to do about bad sealing around vents or trim, it was right in the middle of nowhere. They wouldn't do anything about this problem with mine even though they admitted there was problems with the products they were using. I luckily got rid of the trailer.........
I currently know of someone that purchased a brand new 2014 Jayco White Hawk. It has soft spots in the floor already along with numerous other issues.
Sure they are affordable, entry level campers but that's about as far as it goes. Basicly low quality, "Cookie Cutter" technology. Make them look dazzling, pump them out and flood the market with junk.
I stepped into some of the 5th wheels.. I don't know alot, but seemed cheaply made to me.
The floor moved up and down as I walked in it. And that was always my first test. I got the impression these where economy light weight trailers designed for weekend use..
Though, Giving your weight limit, and your short time of use, and I know they can be cost effective.. Jayco may be a good fit.
Diana and Jim said
05:16 AM Oct 27, 2014
If you have the CCC, the bike on the back will cantilever some of the tongue weight off your hitch. Also, when considering a hitch, consider an Equal-I-zer brand hitch. We used one for many years in our TT days and loved it. We purchased it after nearly getting blown over an embankment by a semi on the Mass Turnpike. We never had sway issues after that purchase.
cejones4210 said
08:57 AM Oct 30, 2014
Bill and Linda wrote:
Kyle:
Actually you probably do have the money for an Airstream and the hitch weight, loaded, will most likely be well under the 1,200 lbs limitation on the truck. And yes, that’s a hard number. Airbags can be used to level a truck – and should be in many cases – but they do not increase the load carrying capability one pound.
Back to the Airstream: Look for used Airstreams. Unlike many trailers they hold up better and owners tend to take care of them. Go look for ads especially at Airstream specific parks. You can many times pickup a used unit and bring it up to snuff for less money than a new Jayco. Your truck would be perfect for those and would be within spec.
This is one place to call and see what they have on the sales board. There are many of these "Harbors." Search around a bit.
People at these Land Yacht Harbors will know of people who do reburbishments, etc. or you can do much of it yourself if required based on your comments. Airstreams have “good bones.” 20 year old Airstreams are not “old” like a 10 year old, well, something else. People in these parks tend to sell them in the spring or early fall for various personal reasons.
Kyle
we are currently fulltiming in a 40 year old 25' Airstream, so it can be done. I recommend you check out AirForums as it is exclusively for and about Airstreams. Look at the classifieds, you can search by year. For your needs I would definitely recommend a 30 or 34'. Airstream no longer makes a 34', so that would definitely be used. While we love our little Airstream if I would have known we would be fulltiming in it I would not have sold our 2001 30'. But, we wanted vintage so here we are. It works for 2 people but no way for more. I think a 30' would be too tight for more than 2 also, but that is just me. Airstream is creative with storage but you have to be extremely organized in them as they do not hold as much as a "box" trailer, or so I am guessing.
Towing is great with the Airstream and we have towed in 40 mph winds in SD. We have sat through over 60 mph winds twice in the last year. Once hooked to the truck and once not. She rocked a bit but overall it was better than I was anticipating; I was imagining Dorothy and Toto in "The Wizard of Oz" and being blown into Kansas from Oklahoma. :)
We have sway bars and highly recommend that you tow with them, It really does make a difference. I believe what Bill is referring to is the private Airstream parks around the U.S. I believe there are 7-8 currently; 2-3 in Florida, one each in MN and TN and one in WA, also 2 in TX. Also, in the club's magazine, people will list their AS, but most use AirForums or the WBCCI website (club site). If you have questions about Airstreaming, just PM me. Best wishes in finding your trailer.
Hi folks,
We are in the early stages of looking at large bumper pull trailers, for our planned 2016 departure on a one year tour of the country. We walked through one of these:
http://www.jayco.com/products/travel-trailers/2015-eagle-travel-trailers/338rets/
...and were very impressed with the layout. The build quality seems to be slightly better than average. We have a 2002 Chevrolet 2500HD with the 8.1 gasser and Allison 5 speed, to tow with. According to the information I have found, I should be well within the safe towing ability of the truck. Do any of you own one of these trailers, or have a good/bad/neutral opinion of Jayco, in general?
We looked at a few fifth wheels, but with two adults and two teens, by the time we get up to a usable size, the weight is off the charts.
All input appreciated. We will likely be making a purchase next fall, so I want to get the research done early!
Thanks, Kyle
Kyle,
I've no opinion on the Jayco as I've never looked at them, but I do have a couple of questions or points to bring up for you.
1. Have you looked at one personally and considered the amount of storage space it gives? With four people, travel trailers generally are limited.
2. When looking at weights, do not go by the truck manufacturer's "towing weight." You want to know what the GCVW (Gross Combined Vehicular Weight) for the truck is to begin with. Then, get the GVWR (Gross Vehicular Weight Rating) for the trailer. Then add the trailer's GVWR to the "practical" weight of the truck to see what the two weigh combined. (Practical weight is the truck with full fuel, all passengers, and cargo that you plan to carry in the truck itself.
If you can, try to find one configured (bed-wise) as you would like. Then, check to see if that bed will be comfortable.
Jayco seems to have a good reputation, but I'm no judge of that either pro or con.
Good luck in your research and planning.
Terry
As far as trucks pulling Terry and Jo gave good advice; always have more truck carrying capacity than the weight of the trailer. When I use the brakes I expect the vehicle to stop and when I approach a mountain I expect it will pull it over it and when I let off the accelerator expect the engine compression to assist holding the speed down. I have only heard good things about GM's Allison Transmissions.
Kyle: Are you only going to keep the trailer for the year that you will be traveling? We have had a couple of Jayco products, used ones, and we were considering buying a new one for our "adventure" so I joined the owner's group. To me, Jayco like many other manufacturers is not making the product they used to when it comes to quality. Jayco does nearly everything in-house which gives them a price advantage for an equal quality unit. I do not like OSB which is my biggest issue with Jayco and many of the other manufacturers and I don't care for the fiberglass sandwich bonded side wall, roof and especially the floor. I suggest joining the Jayco owner's forum for specific information. I have standards across the board that no one could probably ever meet but I intend to come close on getting what I want. I am RV world obsessed.
I went and checked that particular model and the cargo carrying capacity is 2240 lbs. This is one of the issues that I have found when looking at the Jayco travel trailers because even if you go bigger (we are planning for ultra-small compared to most), the cargo capacity seems to sit around the 2000 lb mark. I do notice this in 5th wheels with different manufacturers also where they show lots of storage room but when you look at the actual capacity in weight, it just doesn't compute and the opportunity to overload.......... Take a few items and stick them on the bathroom scales, you can hold a box or bundle while you stand on the scale to and just get feel for how fast the weight will go up. Think of things like canned goods, sport equipment, dishes and other kitchen items, clothing/shoes, etc. and this cargo capacity does not take into account the weight of fresh water (except in the water heater usually), gray or black water. Fill the fresh water tank and that takes away 672 lbs of your carrying capacity.
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Saturday 30th of August 2014 08:38:19 AM
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Saturday 30th of August 2014 08:39:20 AM
Welcome, Kyle:
The Jayco, IMO, is one of the better entry line trailers. Many purchase a Jayco for weekending and extended trips. I know of those who full-time in them and if treated well should serve you. IMO, you get a lot for the money and the company is still going strong. You should see the lot near Middlebury, IN. But just keep in mind the Jayco is not what some would call a “heavy duty” trailer.
As to the truck: That’s the good old 454 big block expanded to almost 500 ci in the 8.1 version. Coupled with the Alison it’s a great gas engine / transmission combination. The 454/455 blocks were the towing beasts back in the day before light duty diesels were finally developed – at least the ones that worked well. I had three of them and they are a great combination with the Allison and all gave me zero trouble.
That said, I’d be more comfortable with a dual rear wheel truck due to the length of the trailer – not so much the total weight. The truck is more than capable, especially with the 8.1/Alison combination, of towing that trailer and within trailer weight specifications - even with a 3.76 rear end which is likely what it has installed. But make sure the hitch weight of the trailer, listed at well over 1,000lbs, is within the specs for that year of truck using an equalizing hitch. Chevy, Ford and Dodge 2500 series truck frames, back in the day, were not as capable as those of today’s vintage with the same badge on the side. So just double check on those numbers, they will be in the owner’s manual.
Also, it is critical that the equalizing hitch is properly installed to allow the truck and trailer to run level. Running level is critical for several reasons, but mostly to make sure the front truck tires are not lifted. If they are lifted you will have steering control issues. It’s dangerous if the rig isn’t level.
We used this truck to tow 10,000 lb trailers for a long time. Not an issue. But they were 34 feet long. Not almost 40. You will notice when a semi passes you with a 40 foot tag trailer even with double sway control installed. That’s the reason for suggesting possibly dual rear wheels – better stability with a long trailer. Not trailer weight.
Enjoy the hunt.
Thanks for the weight information. I did some digging, and with both truck and trailer at absolute max weight, I am still under the 22,000lb GCWR, by 2000lbs. I can't imagine loading either truck or trailer anywhere new those limits. I need to find a local weigh station, and get the actual number for my truck, with the four of us in it, and a few sandbags to simulate gear.
What does concern me, is tongue weight. Is the 1200lb rating a hard number, or is it a limitation of the actual factory hitch? The dry trailer tongue weight is listed at 1140lbs. Seems too close, if this is something that a good hitch, and airbags won't overcome. I am a little unclear on how the weight distribution bars affect this rating also, but I suppose that's for another thread. I'll keep Googling!
Pieere, I will definitely check into the construction quality of several different trailers in our budget. (Under 40k) I will also look for used, as well. I am not a finish carpenter by trade, but I have a decent eye for what is excellent/good/slapped together on a hangover Monday. The Jayco warranty is 2 years, and a quick Google of the Better Business Bureau complaints only shows 20 or so for the last few years. Some of those sounded legit, a lot sounded a bit hysterical (Asking them to fix delamination 7 years after purchase). Thanks for the tips.
Gypsy. I'd love to have a trailer built to my specs as well. Unfortunately, I don't have the money for an Airstream. I am not a huge fan of OSB either, but then again, my house is built out of it also. Pretty hard to get away from, anymore, unfortunately. It does stand up to a lot of things better than plywood, and neither like water, so it may be a toss up, in the end? The penciled-in plan is to keep whatever we get for about 10 years. That works out to 4k a year, if the thing literally fell apart went to the scrap yard at the end of that time. I am very good at repairing things, and maybe more importantly, spotting small problems before they become large ones. As for the cargo carrying capacity, I am (tentatively) not too concerned with that. One of the benefits to me, of this whole idea, is getting rid of stuff. Really living lean, if you will. I will definitely make a list of everything that will go, and write down the total weights. Hope you find the perfect trailer!
Bill and Linda, I'd love to have a dually, but it isn't in the cards financially. The truck we have now is paid off, and believe it or not, only has 25k on the clock. It has the 4.10 rear end. I currently tow a 28' cargo trailer with it, and it does get a little nervous in crosswinds, or the gusts from a semi. I do not have any sway control or equalizers on it at all. I am considering installing airbags, and will certainly go with the best of the best, when it comes to tires and shocks. I've been looking at aftermarket hitches, as well. The factory units don' seem to be held in high regard, from what I have read. If I have to make an adjustment to the plan, it will have to be a smaller trailer. I briefly looked at diesel dually trucks, but $60,000 cooled that idea off in a hurry!
Thanks again, you have all given me serious food for thought!
Regards, Kyle
Like others, I'd be a bit concerned about the small difference between the trailer's gross weight and the empty weight. Remember that any options you add come out of that difference, as does the water you carry, and all of the other stuff (food, dishes, clothes, etc.) that you will have with you. You are considering full-timing for a year, and the general advice for full-timing is that you should have 1,000 to 1,500 pounds per person. It looks like you will be a bit short on carrying capacity with this rig.
I'm not saying not to buy this, but please do a bit of more research. "I'd rather ask 1,000 questions before writing a large check than ask one question 1,000 times afterward."
Kyle:
Actually you probably do have the money for an Airstream and the hitch weight, loaded, will most likely be well under the 1,200 lbs limitation on the truck. And yes, that’s a hard number. Airbags can be used to level a truck – and should be in many cases – but they do not increase the load carrying capability one pound.
Back to the Airstream: Look for used Airstreams. Unlike many trailers they hold up better and owners tend to take care of them. Go look for ads especially at Airstream specific parks. You can many times pickup a used unit and bring it up to snuff for less money than a new Jayco. Your truck would be perfect for those and would be within spec.
This is one place to call and see what they have on the sales board. There are many of these "Harbors." Search around a bit.
http://landyachtharbormelbourne.com/
People at these Land Yacht Harbors will know of people who do reburbishments, etc. or you can do much of it yourself if required based on your comments. Airstreams have “good bones.” 20 year old Airstreams are not “old” like a 10 year old, well, something else. People in these parks tend to sell them in the spring or early fall for various personal reasons.
Yes, you want an aftermarket class IV receiver hitch for the truck. Most factory hitches, GM included in the far past, aren’t really up to serious towing with equalizer hitches on the OEM receivers. With only 25K mileage on the truck, assuming it has been maintained, it will be a great match to an Airstream. I wouldn't replace it either. I speak from some 30+ years of family experience with this type of truck and trailer combination. There is no tag trailer that tows better than an Airstream. It even has a type of independent suspension. No springs and all the issues with them. Great rig I would consider based on what you’ve said and the truck.
Trust this helps to give some ideas.
I don't know if this will help but can't hurt to look it over: http://changingears.com/rv-sec-calc-trailer-weight-tt.shtml You might get 10 years out of the Jayco that you are looking at if you take really good care of it. Most people don't realize just how much care one needs to stay in shape which, if you look at the used market, you'll notice right off. In the used market, high end is the way to go. We have been debating that, lower end new or higher end used.
David,
I am just beginning the hunt for our trailer, so I will look at many before deciding on one. This Jayco is one of two models we have looked at, the other being Augusta. I've never heard of Augusta before, but the trailer looked very nice. I am really trying to wrap my brain around these weight per-person figures. Clothes for 4 people, (One week supply each), maybe 250lbs of hobby and entertainment stuff, food, a generator, and 4 bicycles. A 240lb dual sport motorcycle in the truck bed will serve as a grocery getter. That's about all I want, or need to haul with us. We plan to rent a 10x10 storage, at $600 for a year, until we decide if we really like the lifestyle, so all of our "Can't get rid of" stuff will go in there. We are used to dry camping with about fifteen gallons of water, for a couple of days, and I don't plan to travel with full tanks, unless it's for a short distance to dump them. One of my many reasons for wanting to do this, is to rid myself of the albatross around my neck called stuff. I certainly don't want two tons of junk riding along with me! Feel free to correct my logic. I may very well be missing something.
Bill and Linda, I love the quality of the Airstreams, but I guess I should have been more clear. We really want slide outs, for the more open feeling they give. I was mostly using Airstream as a metaphor for "High quality". With some background in aviation, I do love formed and riveted aluminum, though! Since the tongue weight is a hard number, is the 10% below max rule still applicable? If the truck will handle 1200, and assuming airbags and levelers, would 1080lbs be safe, or would that be pushing my luck? If the tongue weight increases while loading stuff, is it acceptable to shift it to the rear of the trailer while moving from place to place, to bring the tongue weight back in line? I plan to purchase a tongue weight scale. I've wanted one for a long time, and for a hundred bucks, it seems like a smart investment.
Gypsy, thanks for the link. I squirreled it away in my favorites. I am definitely open to used, and will be looking hard at that market, when the time comes.
Thanks folks!
Kyle
-- Edited by Vagabond on Monday 1st of September 2014 03:45:10 PM
As for weights, the tongue weight of a TT is generally 10-15% of the trailer's weight. For planning purposes you can use the gross weight of the trailer. Once you get the trailer you can get it loaded, then weigh it and redistribute weight if necessary to get the tongue weight just right. There are several threads here about doing the math to match truck and trailer. When you are figuring the gross combined weight be sure that you include the weight of that bike in the back of the truck as well as the people, pets, and stuff in it. Again, the easiest way is to just load everything up and get it weighed.
Dear Kyle,
The low CCC of the Jayco (which is an otherwise great trailer for the price) would be a deal breaker for me. I am planning on FTing in a TT in the near future so I have considered this subject every carefully.
The most frequently found limiting factor I often see for FT use is carrying capacity. Even after pruning your possessions to a tiny fraction of what you own now will still be quite heavy. I've found that often the actual CCC of units on the dealer's lot is usually a couple hundred lbs lower than advertised because of many "options" like a spare tire, ac, awning, battery, etc. add hidden weight and are not really optional. I recommend that you look at the actual CCC on the weight sticker inside your trailer before you pull the trigger.
Let's look at some of the things that typically eat up an RVs CCC. Let's say you don't carry any water, that's a weight savings there, but it limits your dry camping and boondocking ability. Do you plan on staying in FHU CGs only? Deciding not to carry water restricts where you can stay - eliminating about 1/2 of the places I'd like to go. Maybe your plans are different, but consider this self imposed limitation carefully.
Other things that add weight is propane, so add 60 lbs of propane (plus the weight of the tanks, if not included), and 50-75 lbs of batteries- more if you want to boondock. Next, add the contents of your fridge, a full ice chest, pantry, clothes (4 seasons worth for 4 people), shoes for 4, linens, towels, etc for 4, foam topper for beds, window coverings/decorations, kitchen appliances (toaster ovens, blender, mixer, rice pot, coffee pot, slow cooker, dishwasher, etc.) kitchen utensils, pots and pans, plates, glasses, silverware, misc. household items like lamps, chairs, washer/drier, etc., toiletries, medical supplies, cleaning supplies (vacuum, mop and broom) and chemicals, folding chairs, recliners, floor/door mats, tarps, rope and chains, screen rooms/tentage, toys (bikes, hobby and sporting equipt., fishing gear, hunting gear, guns and ammo, motorcycles, ATVs, helmets and riding gear), TV/DVD/satellite equipt., stereo/music gear, game systems/computers, printers, safe, locks and security system, portable heaters, generator/spare fuel, solar panels (controller, inverter, cabling and extra heavy batteries) - disregard if you won't be staying at anything other than FHU sites), sewage and fresh water hoses and fittings, electrical cords, surge protector, leveling gear, water filters, macerator pump, portable dump tanks, patio/camping lights, lanterns, tables, BBQ grill/fuel, screen room, tentage, tools (very heavy), spare parts for TT, bike and truck, topper or camper for truck (to protect your bike and carry more gear), pet supplies, cages, etc.
Only you know what you will be carrying, but it could easily exceed your weight limit - even if you travel with dry tanks and live a relatively minimalist lifestyle. Then there's souvenirs you will accumulate during your travels and things you will buy later, along the road, that you didn't know you needed or wanted until you start the lifestyle. Think Lucille Ball and rocks - in other words DW and D kids may each have a slightly different idea of what's essential to take with them. ;)
With 4 people onboard, I'd consider something in the 4,000 lb CCC range. This means a toy hauler, as there are few TTs available with this large of CCC - including the Airstreams. Some of the few suitable TTs are used 2012-2013 Gulfstream Conquest 295sbw or Trailmaster 299sbw. Both are towable by your truck, with a with a UVW of 6767 lbs and a CCC of 4473 lbs each. Note: the newer models have lighter wheels/axles and have downgraded carrying capacity. Another TT that has lowered their CCC recently is Palomino Puma 30RKSS. Before 2014 it had a UVW of 6,945 lbs and a CCC of 4,183 lbs now it has been reduced to only 2,721 lbs of CCC due to lighter running gear.
Good luck,
Chip
Chip, I have also been looking at the Augusta Flex AT-32RE. Can't say I have heard of the brand, and there is only one dealer in our state selling them. There are a lot of dealers in the midwest and southern US. Day to day repairs of plumbing, electrical, and slide mechanicals I can handle myself. Only need for a dealer would be major warranty service, of some kind. Not sure how much of a benefit purchasing a Jayco would be, based only on their massive dealer network? The Augusta offers much lighter tongue weight, and an advertised 4200lb payload capacity. Unfortunately, this puts the GVWR of the trailer about 1400lbs over the stated max for the truck to pull on "the bumper", so absolute max we could haul would still be in the 2500lb range, even with the greater sticker capacity.... I'm just going to have to break out the bathroom scales, and do some serious weighing, of every possible thing we might haul with us.
Time will tell, and it sure seems like there are no shortage of options out there!
Regards, Kyle
Here's another that lists the same low CCC as the previous link: www.bankstonmotorhomes.com/rv/huntsville+al/augustarv+traveltrailer/2731/augusta+rv+flex+at32re
I wonder which is accurate? I'd be sure to look at the weight sticker before making a decision on this model.
Chip
Don't be praising up JAYCO too much.......I had 2006 27' JAYCO BAJA trailer. It had the same issues like talked about in this Forum. When I talked to JAYCO(Dealer) they admitted to knowing about issues with the TPO roofing product they were using. Water would actually penetrate the membrane and rot the wood structure behind it. You could actually see darker coloured patches where the membrane was penetrated with water. This was nothing to do about bad sealing around vents or trim, it was right in the middle of nowhere. They wouldn't do anything about this problem with mine even though they admitted there was problems with the products they were using. I luckily got rid of the trailer.........
I currently know of someone that purchased a brand new 2014 Jayco White Hawk. It has soft spots in the floor already along with numerous other issues.
Sure they are affordable, entry level campers but that's about as far as it goes. Basicly low quality, "Cookie Cutter" technology. Make them look dazzling, pump them out and flood the market with junk.
http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4148
The floor moved up and down as I walked in it. And that was always my first test. I got the impression these where economy light weight trailers designed for weekend use..
Though, Giving your weight limit, and your short time of use, and I know they can be cost effective.. Jayco may be a good fit.
Kyle
we are currently fulltiming in a 40 year old 25' Airstream, so it can be done. I recommend you check out AirForums as it is exclusively for and about Airstreams. Look at the classifieds, you can search by year. For your needs I would definitely recommend a 30 or 34'. Airstream no longer makes a 34', so that would definitely be used. While we love our little Airstream if I would have known we would be fulltiming in it I would not have sold our 2001 30'. But, we wanted vintage so here we are. It works for 2 people but no way for more. I think a 30' would be too tight for more than 2 also, but that is just me. Airstream is creative with storage but you have to be extremely organized in them as they do not hold as much as a "box" trailer, or so I am guessing.
Towing is great with the Airstream and we have towed in 40 mph winds in SD. We have sat through over 60 mph winds twice in the last year. Once hooked to the truck and once not. She rocked a bit but overall it was better than I was anticipating; I was imagining Dorothy and Toto in "The Wizard of Oz" and being blown into Kansas from Oklahoma. :)
We have sway bars and highly recommend that you tow with them, It really does make a difference. I believe what Bill is referring to is the private Airstream parks around the U.S. I believe there are 7-8 currently; 2-3 in Florida, one each in MN and TN and one in WA, also 2 in TX. Also, in the club's magazine, people will list their AS, but most use AirForums or the WBCCI website (club site). If you have questions about Airstreaming, just PM me. Best wishes in finding your trailer.