Still in research phase shopping for a 5er to be our full-time, or at least most-time home. We've visited a local rv show, and some dealerships. Found some floorplans we like. It seems most companies have the same or very similar floor plans so there's choices across a wide number of companies. We really want to move around and see a lot of country, at a leisurely pace of course ;) .. but this has us thinking we should stay in the 32 foot area so we can fit in more campgrounds and boondocking areas. We're not looking top of the line residential models, but more mid-range. Some companies we've liked have been Artic Fox, Open Range, Mountaineers and Wildcat Maxx, and maybe on the high end we've been looking at Grand Design. I'm sure there's more similar ones I either haven't seen yet or forgotten at the moment.
My question is what quality, or lack of quality in this range should I be looking for? Is all aluminum frame ok? I've seen that dual pane windows are great, are thermopane similar? What type of 4 season features should I look for? Is the RVIA seal an indication of four season worthiness? What type of suspension? Rating of tires? basically anything and everything a newbie should be looking at before saying "I want that!"
Just today on these forums I've seen people referring to the size of the frame, but I haven't seen that when I was out shopping. Does that refer to the base of the frame? and is 12 inch the standard?
Hope the questions make sense. Hoping for some feedback that will let me have a better idea of what I should be looking for so I can compare apples to apples :) Would also appreciate any brand recommendations people may have in the mid range area.
Thanks in advance
Jim
Terry and Jo said
06:41 PM Jun 26, 2014
Jim,
It's good to do the research in advance. A 32 to 34-foot fifth wheel would be a good choice for being able to stay in more primitive places. We did that for decades with different campers (and tents) until we got our present coach. While I think I could take it there, our favorite National Forest Campground would only have maybe two or three sites to fit our length, and all but one of those is out in a meadow where folks with horse trailer can "camp."
If one is considering even a part-time full time life in an RV, I wouldn't go for anything less than a 12" frame. (I can't speak to how good an aluminum frame would be.) Most of those will be I-beam types, but if I remember right, there is one manufacturer that has a 12-inch double-box frame. That is a rectangular box that is welded to another like it, both of which are 6-inches high. Getting into the bigger coaches, one can find some that are 15-inch (DRV Suites) and larger (up to either 16-inches or 18-inches.) DRV Suites does have both a 32-foot and 34-foot fifth wheel in the Mobile Suites models. Granted, the DRV's are more of the higher line of coaches rather than mid-range. If you were interested in a DRV, I'd suggest looking for a used one, although I've seen darn few used 32 and 34-footers available.
In addition to the frame, pay close attention to the suspension, axles, wheels and tires. All those things make up the very foundation of the RV. Beyond that, you will want to look at the amenities of the interior. When looking, also find brochures online or in dealerships that list the standard and optional features for each brand. On occasion, you may find that some brands don't have quite all the nicer amenities.
If you are really thinking true four-seasons usage, also check out the insulation R-ratings. As a point of interest, the DRV's Mobile Suites have 3 1/4" walls and excellent R-ratings. We've lived in our Mobile Suites now for 3 years on a full time basis in Oklahoma City and have been comfortable in temperatures ranging from 6 degrees all the way up to 115 degrees. Should you happen to decide to "snow-bird," then insulation won't be quite so important for you.
I definitely recommend the dual pane windows, as that is what is in our Mobile Suites. I'm not really sure what the difference is between dual-pane and thermopane.
Terry
Gadfly said
06:53 PM Jun 26, 2014
Thank you for the info Terry. I'm having fun doing research and it's keeping me busy while I have to wait until next year! Is it time yet? :)
I appreciate the info about the frame. That will give me something I can question on any of these coaches I'm looking at.
Jim
NWescapee said
08:14 PM Jun 26, 2014
Jim - another manufacturer to put on your list if you're looking at mid range pricing for 4 seasons is Outdoors RV Manufacturing. Relatively new out of OR, we had one of their first TT's before we went FT and wanted something bigger. Good 4 season rigs, we stayed in 100+ temps and below freezing in the time we owned it without issues. They have just started making a few 5th wheels in the length you are looking at, so I can't speak to their floor plans. At the time we had one of their trailers they only offered TT's.
The Bear II said
08:31 AM Jun 27, 2014
We could never justify buying the top of the line models so we always have chosen mid-level RVs. Our two most recent RVs (a 23ft TT and current 38ft 5th wheel) have lasted 16 plus years without any major problems. Our 5th wheel just turned 19 this month.
Both had cabinets that were made from 1/8 inch luan plywood with fake wood vinyl covering for side panels and real wood doors. The cabinets were built with a 1 inch pine frame covered on the inside and outside with the 1/8 inch fake wood. They look great and have held up well. They are much lighter than the real wood or pressboard veneer cabinets used in high end models.
I suggest finding 3 floorplans/5th wheels you like and spend time in each one as if you are living in them. Spend a few hours in each. See what it's like if you both are fixing meals in the kitchen. Watch for bottlenecks, spots where if you are going one direction and she is going in the opposite direction where will it be tough to pass.
If the slideouts are in will you be able to get to the refrigerator, sink and toilet or sleep in the bed ? There have been many times when we have had to do all of these.
Make sure there is lots of storage inside and out.
Narrow your choice down to the perfect one for both of you.
We have always been able to find a spot to camp in even with the 38 foot 5th wheel. There are always private RV Parks within 20 to 50 miles of national and state parks. Most private RV Parks will accomodate large RVs. You may have to drive a little ways to see the sights but you'll be able to find a spot and have the comfort of the extra square footage.
Choose a model you both like. We have yet to find a 5th wheel we like better than the one we have now.
Gadfly said
09:12 AM Jun 27, 2014
Great thanks! I"ll check them out.
Gadfly said
09:15 AM Jun 27, 2014
Thanks Bear, sounds like good advice.
jayc said
08:31 AM Jun 28, 2014
We've been living in our Heartland Landmark for about three years now and love it. We went through last winter- the worst in my lfe- very comfortably. We try to stay in cooler climes during the summer but have experienced upper 90's with no problem. Our two a/c's handle the heat with no problem. We recently saw a new model prototype that sported 3 a/c's!
I think that for your money, you won't go wrong with a Heartland. Check 'em out!
Sushidog said
07:58 AM Jun 29, 2014
Be sure to select one with sufficient carrying capacity for your needs. It amazes me that I often see beautiful, otherwise FT capable rigs with only 2,000-2,500 lbs ccc. Most full-timers I've talked with recommend at least 3,000 lbs CCC for a couple. Remember you will be carrying all your worldly possessions with you, which for most folks, even after pruning your possessions to a tiny fraction of what you own now will still be quite heavy. I've found that often the actual CCC of units on the dealer's lot is usually a couple hundred lbs lower than advertised because of "options" many of which are not really options as they are part of a forced package. Some options, like a spare tire, ac, awning, etc. add hidden weight and are not really optional. I recommend that you look at the actual CCC on the weight sticker before you pull the trigger.
Let's look at some of the things that typically eat up an RVs CCC. First there's water. Let's say you like a unit with a 90 gal fresh water capacity - about 800lbs of it if you like to boondock and need to travel with your fresh tank full (90gal.+ 6gal hot water x 8.34 lbs/gal), next add 60 lbs of propane (plus the weight of the tanks, if not included), and 50-75 lbs of batteries- more if you like to boondock. Next, add the contents of your fridge, a full ice chest, pantry, clothes (4 seasons worth), shoes, linens, foam topper for bed, window coverings/decorations, kitchen appliances (toaster ovens, blender, mixer, rice pot, coffee pot, slow cooker, dishwasher, etc.) kitchen utensils, pots and pans, misc. household items like lamps, chairs, washer/drier, etc., toiletries, medical supplies, cleaning supplies (vacuum, mop and broom) and chemicals, folding chairs, recliners, floor/door mats, tarps, rope and chains, screen rooms/tentage, kids toys, adult toys (bikes, hobby and sporting equipt., fishing gear, guns and ammo), TV/DVD/satellite equipt., stereo/music gear, game systems/computers, printers, family heirlooms/treasures, portable heaters, generator/spare fuel, solar panels (controller, inverter, cabling and extra heavy batteries), sewage and fresh water hoses and fittings, electrical cords, surge protector, leveling gear, water filters, macerator pump, portable dump tanks, water bladder, patio/camping lights, lanterns, tables, BBQ grill/fuel, tools (very heavy), spare parts for 5er and truck, pet supplies, cages, etc.
Only you know what you will be carrying, but it could easily sneak up on your weight limit - even if you travel with dry tanks and live a relatively minimalist lifestyle. Then there's souvenirs you will accumulate during your travels - Lucy, put that big rock back! Aww, Ricky!
Chip
-- Edited by Sushidog on Sunday 29th of June 2014 07:59:28 AM
-- Edited by Sushidog on Sunday 29th of June 2014 08:00:35 AM
kb0zke said
04:46 PM Jul 3, 2014
I believe that Thermo-Pane is a brand name for dual-pane windows.
dewwood said
07:03 PM Jul 3, 2014
I had a dealer tell me that the dual panes are just that, two panes of glass put together. The thermopanes are more like the residential ones with a gas filled space between the panes of glass. That is what he told me and it makes sense to me.
Glenn West said
08:41 AM Jul 9, 2014
Heartland Landmark has been suggested and I believe it is tops in mass produced 5thers. Noticed I stated "mass produced". Price reflects it too. They are not wide body and that's a big deal for us. They have a forum and they are some very happy owners. Some have had problems and Heartland really took care of them. Problems are to be expected with mass produced units. This is important. I personally would not buy one but have seriously considered one.
Gadfly said
11:02 AM Jul 9, 2014
Thanks for all the good info
Neil and Connie said
01:17 PM Jul 9, 2014
Hi Jim…you didn't say what your price range was either so that's another thing to think about. Higher end models like New Horizons or DRV or Spacecraft(?) will generally be heavier, have stronger frames and components, real wood cabinets as well as other amenities. If you don't have a truck yet then pick out your RV first and get a truck that will pull it.
Service after the sale is also important. If having the ability to pull back into either a Brand X dealership or a Brand Y factory and expect a full service service department then the larger makers are more likely to have one of those. New Horizons…while they build an excellent coach…have a…let's call it less than fully satisfactory service department because they don't have many employees dedicated full time for service work and have to frequently borrow man hours from the production line. Nothing wrong with that of course…but pulling back into Camp Horizons for work is frequently an adventure in scheduling. For example…we just finished a warranty work/upgrade period. Left the rig here for 3 weeks while we were gone to Ireland on vacation and of our 9 or 10 warranty items and 6 desired upgrades only 2/3 of the warranty items and none of the upgrades were finished when we got back. Turns out that 1 of our upgrades wasn't really possible but nobody explained that to us on original discussion of the list. We got back Monday and only then did it appear that things really got rolling on the remainder of our lists.
Again, nothing wrong with that but that's the way NH runs their service department and I would suspect that most of the other low volume higher end builders will be the same as they don't have the production base to better support a fully staffed service department.
Look at a lot of rigs and read the forums here to see what you want and what you might not want. For instance…we've got the electric fireplace option and beyond looking nice and homey it pretty much serves as our only heat source in wintertime; we rarely use the furnaces. We don't frequent the snow belt though, we're in FL for the winter. We also have the built in dishwasher…it does a whole load of about 1.5 days worth of dishes on 2 gallons of water which is less than it would take to hand wash. Washer/dryer is another idea…do you want to do 1 load every day or so or 3 loads every 10 days at the local laundromat? Again…there are many threads on the forum here dealing with various options and their pros and cons but you need to decide what you want to have, what your budget is, and then see how those two lists match up.
Ann and Steve said
08:10 PM Jul 10, 2014
Dual-pane are two pieces of glass with air between. Thermopane is a trademarked dual pane window but with [I believe] Argon in between. The inert gas prevents fogging and moisture and is a better heat-transfer insulator.
Hi all!
Still in research phase shopping for a 5er to be our full-time, or at least most-time home. We've visited a local rv show, and some dealerships. Found some floorplans we like. It seems most companies have the same or very similar floor plans so there's choices across a wide number of companies. We really want to move around and see a lot of country, at a leisurely pace of course ;) .. but this has us thinking we should stay in the 32 foot area so we can fit in more campgrounds and boondocking areas. We're not looking top of the line residential models, but more mid-range. Some companies we've liked have been Artic Fox, Open Range, Mountaineers and Wildcat Maxx, and maybe on the high end we've been looking at Grand Design. I'm sure there's more similar ones I either haven't seen yet or forgotten at the moment.
My question is what quality, or lack of quality in this range should I be looking for? Is all aluminum frame ok? I've seen that dual pane windows are great, are thermopane similar? What type of 4 season features should I look for? Is the RVIA seal an indication of four season worthiness? What type of suspension? Rating of tires? basically anything and everything a newbie should be looking at before saying "I want that!"
Just today on these forums I've seen people referring to the size of the frame, but I haven't seen that when I was out shopping. Does that refer to the base of the frame? and is 12 inch the standard?
Hope the questions make sense. Hoping for some feedback that will let me have a better idea of what I should be looking for so I can compare apples to apples :) Would also appreciate any brand recommendations people may have in the mid range area.
Thanks in advance
Jim
Jim,
It's good to do the research in advance. A 32 to 34-foot fifth wheel would be a good choice for being able to stay in more primitive places. We did that for decades with different campers (and tents) until we got our present coach. While I think I could take it there, our favorite National Forest Campground would only have maybe two or three sites to fit our length, and all but one of those is out in a meadow where folks with horse trailer can "camp."
If one is considering even a part-time full time life in an RV, I wouldn't go for anything less than a 12" frame. (I can't speak to how good an aluminum frame would be.) Most of those will be I-beam types, but if I remember right, there is one manufacturer that has a 12-inch double-box frame. That is a rectangular box that is welded to another like it, both of which are 6-inches high. Getting into the bigger coaches, one can find some that are 15-inch (DRV Suites) and larger (up to either 16-inches or 18-inches.) DRV Suites does have both a 32-foot and 34-foot fifth wheel in the Mobile Suites models. Granted, the DRV's are more of the higher line of coaches rather than mid-range. If you were interested in a DRV, I'd suggest looking for a used one, although I've seen darn few used 32 and 34-footers available.
In addition to the frame, pay close attention to the suspension, axles, wheels and tires. All those things make up the very foundation of the RV. Beyond that, you will want to look at the amenities of the interior. When looking, also find brochures online or in dealerships that list the standard and optional features for each brand. On occasion, you may find that some brands don't have quite all the nicer amenities.
If you are really thinking true four-seasons usage, also check out the insulation R-ratings. As a point of interest, the DRV's Mobile Suites have 3 1/4" walls and excellent R-ratings. We've lived in our Mobile Suites now for 3 years on a full time basis in Oklahoma City and have been comfortable in temperatures ranging from 6 degrees all the way up to 115 degrees. Should you happen to decide to "snow-bird," then insulation won't be quite so important for you.
I definitely recommend the dual pane windows, as that is what is in our Mobile Suites. I'm not really sure what the difference is between dual-pane and thermopane.
Terry
Thank you for the info Terry. I'm having fun doing research and it's keeping me busy while I have to wait until next year! Is it time yet? :)
I appreciate the info about the frame. That will give me something I can question on any of these coaches I'm looking at.
Jim
Both had cabinets that were made from 1/8 inch luan plywood with fake wood vinyl covering for side panels and real wood doors. The cabinets were built with a 1 inch pine frame covered on the inside and outside with the 1/8 inch fake wood. They look great and have held up well. They are much lighter than the real wood or pressboard veneer cabinets used in high end models.
I suggest finding 3 floorplans/5th wheels you like and spend time in each one as if you are living in them. Spend a few hours in each. See what it's like if you both are fixing meals in the kitchen. Watch for bottlenecks, spots where if you are going one direction and she is going in the opposite direction where will it be tough to pass.
If the slideouts are in will you be able to get to the refrigerator, sink and toilet or sleep in the bed ? There have been many times when we have had to do all of these.
Make sure there is lots of storage inside and out.
Narrow your choice down to the perfect one for both of you.
We have always been able to find a spot to camp in even with the 38 foot 5th wheel. There are always private RV Parks within 20 to 50 miles of national and state parks. Most private RV Parks will accomodate large RVs. You may have to drive a little ways to see the sights but you'll be able to find a spot and have the comfort of the extra square footage.
Choose a model you both like. We have yet to find a 5th wheel we like better than the one we have now.
Great thanks! I"ll check them out.
Thanks Bear, sounds like good advice.
We've been living in our Heartland Landmark for about three years now and love it. We went through last winter- the worst in my lfe- very comfortably. We try to stay in cooler climes during the summer but have experienced upper 90's with no problem. Our two a/c's handle the heat with no problem. We recently saw a new model prototype that sported 3 a/c's!
I think that for your money, you won't go wrong with a Heartland. Check 'em out!
Be sure to select one with sufficient carrying capacity for your needs. It amazes me that I often see beautiful, otherwise FT capable rigs with only 2,000-2,500 lbs ccc. Most full-timers I've talked with recommend at least 3,000 lbs CCC for a couple. Remember you will be carrying all your worldly possessions with you, which for most folks, even after pruning your possessions to a tiny fraction of what you own now will still be quite heavy. I've found that often the actual CCC of units on the dealer's lot is usually a couple hundred lbs lower than advertised because of "options" many of which are not really options as they are part of a forced package. Some options, like a spare tire, ac, awning, etc. add hidden weight and are not really optional. I recommend that you look at the actual CCC on the weight sticker before you pull the trigger.
Let's look at some of the things that typically eat up an RVs CCC. First there's water. Let's say you like a unit with a 90 gal fresh water capacity - about 800lbs of it if you like to boondock and need to travel with your fresh tank full (90gal.+ 6gal hot water x 8.34 lbs/gal), next add 60 lbs of propane (plus the weight of the tanks, if not included), and 50-75 lbs of batteries- more if you like to boondock. Next, add the contents of your fridge, a full ice chest, pantry, clothes (4 seasons worth), shoes, linens, foam topper for bed, window coverings/decorations, kitchen appliances (toaster ovens, blender, mixer, rice pot, coffee pot, slow cooker, dishwasher, etc.) kitchen utensils, pots and pans, misc. household items like lamps, chairs, washer/drier, etc., toiletries, medical supplies, cleaning supplies (vacuum, mop and broom) and chemicals, folding chairs, recliners, floor/door mats, tarps, rope and chains, screen rooms/tentage, kids toys, adult toys (bikes, hobby and sporting equipt., fishing gear, guns and ammo), TV/DVD/satellite equipt., stereo/music gear, game systems/computers, printers, family heirlooms/treasures, portable heaters, generator/spare fuel, solar panels (controller, inverter, cabling and extra heavy batteries), sewage and fresh water hoses and fittings, electrical cords, surge protector, leveling gear, water filters, macerator pump, portable dump tanks, water bladder, patio/camping lights, lanterns, tables, BBQ grill/fuel, tools (very heavy), spare parts for 5er and truck, pet supplies, cages, etc.
Only you know what you will be carrying, but it could easily sneak up on your weight limit - even if you travel with dry tanks and live a relatively minimalist lifestyle. Then there's souvenirs you will accumulate during your travels - Lucy, put that big rock back! Aww, Ricky!
Chip
-- Edited by Sushidog on Sunday 29th of June 2014 07:59:28 AM
-- Edited by Sushidog on Sunday 29th of June 2014 08:00:35 AM
I had a dealer tell me that the dual panes are just that, two panes of glass put together. The thermopanes are more like the residential ones with a gas filled space between the panes of glass. That is what he told me and it makes sense to me.
Hi Jim…you didn't say what your price range was either so that's another thing to think about. Higher end models like New Horizons or DRV or Spacecraft(?) will generally be heavier, have stronger frames and components, real wood cabinets as well as other amenities. If you don't have a truck yet then pick out your RV first and get a truck that will pull it.
Service after the sale is also important. If having the ability to pull back into either a Brand X dealership or a Brand Y factory and expect a full service service department then the larger makers are more likely to have one of those. New Horizons…while they build an excellent coach…have a…let's call it less than fully satisfactory service department because they don't have many employees dedicated full time for service work and have to frequently borrow man hours from the production line. Nothing wrong with that of course…but pulling back into Camp Horizons for work is frequently an adventure in scheduling. For example…we just finished a warranty work/upgrade period. Left the rig here for 3 weeks while we were gone to Ireland on vacation and of our 9 or 10 warranty items and 6 desired upgrades only 2/3 of the warranty items and none of the upgrades were finished when we got back. Turns out that 1 of our upgrades wasn't really possible but nobody explained that to us on original discussion of the list. We got back Monday and only then did it appear that things really got rolling on the remainder of our lists.
Again, nothing wrong with that but that's the way NH runs their service department and I would suspect that most of the other low volume higher end builders will be the same as they don't have the production base to better support a fully staffed service department.
Look at a lot of rigs and read the forums here to see what you want and what you might not want. For instance…we've got the electric fireplace option and beyond looking nice and homey it pretty much serves as our only heat source in wintertime; we rarely use the furnaces. We don't frequent the snow belt though, we're in FL for the winter. We also have the built in dishwasher…it does a whole load of about 1.5 days worth of dishes on 2 gallons of water which is less than it would take to hand wash. Washer/dryer is another idea…do you want to do 1 load every day or so or 3 loads every 10 days at the local laundromat? Again…there are many threads on the forum here dealing with various options and their pros and cons but you need to decide what you want to have, what your budget is, and then see how those two lists match up.
Dual-pane are two pieces of glass with air between. Thermopane is a trademarked dual pane window but with [I believe] Argon in between. The inert gas prevents fogging and moisture and is a better heat-transfer insulator.