Mitch's Technical Question of the day. (To quote Cheryl, if I need tech support, it MUST be a 'doozie of a question')
I apologize in advance, this will be a quite technical post, possibly over the heads of many readers, please accept my apologies, and just skip the message if that's the case!
quick picture of what we want:
Summary of Questions HERE:
a) Problems getting a win7 bridged connection between wifi and RJ45 to feed into a router successfully b) has anyone done this before to feed their router in their rig? c) how do YOU feed the 2nd/3rd /4th data source into the router after your 20gb monthly is gone???
Details of discussion HERE:
Bill Joyce said (and I quote, because he is using the same Cradlepoint we will be using once we're set up:) original here:
...snip...I run our (Millenicom) through a Cradlepoint MBR95 router to get usage data . ...snip...Comparing the MBR95 usage numbers to the website, it runs about 3% high, which is in my favor.... snip...
Our hotspot does not show usage itself, even though it will if you are a direct Verizon customer.
... KEY POINT TOO highlighted and emphasized(for me...) ...snip... since the Millenicom hotspot isnotour only internet source, using a router makes sense. Our wireless printerand all of our computers and tabletsonlyknow the router's WiFi name (SSID), so we can switch the router from Millenicom to our AT&T hotspot or to campground WiFi, and all the devices still connect and work. mitch says... Let's call this GOAL #1 ...Bill Joyce,
This too is my eventual goal. My network would all have the same IP addresses, and I wouldn't have to move my printers, or tablets to ping each other. _________________
BUT: Problems arise (as always in life, how you solve them is part of the fun of living and growing, and learning!...)
Problem # 1: WE still haven't closed on the sale of our S&B house, therefore have no $$$ to buy the VZ/Mcom plan yet.
Problem # 2: Current internet is coming from a) a local wifi hotspot and b) my 'grandfathered' AT&T smartphone, with unlimited data plan..
Question 1: My initial attempt to achieve Goal # 1 (all units on same internal lan via a gateway) was this: Take my server (Yes, I still have one, but now ONLY ONE!)--ask cheryl about the pains it took to go to ONLY one! Install a USB wifi card, to local WIFI network. (and verify it works ok[validates, gets IP address, and can talk to the internet/DNS ok] info that I need) Take the RJ45/ethernet port, tell Windoze 7 that I want to bridge the wifi and the RJ45 connections, and then assign sequential #'s to the ports (SEE diagram HERE) Test that a laptop COULD get a good address from the rj45 port, and make it out to the internet. Well I stop here, because it didn't WORK. The laptop (192.168.0.8) hard coded did not get online to the internet, but I COULD VNC from 08 (laptop) to 07 (desktop), so the CONNECTION/bridge did work between the two of them. I stopped here, I figured it's smarter to NOT re-invent the wheel if one of you GUYZE have already done it!
Question 2. Remember, I am limited in resources here.
This configuration seems to be the ABSOLUTE wardsback (back ass-wards) version of what I will be doing with the CRADLEPOINT (taking a 3G/4G cell signal from a card, and then passing that to a normal (HOME?) router, which will see that , and distribute the signal on wifi as normally done.
[Here, we are attempting to take a WIFI signal FROM the wifi (guest) network and passing that to the RJ45 WIRED port, and then sending that into a home ROUTER, (via the dsl/cable modem port), and telling the ROUTER that it is a hardcoded Static ip from the ISP.]
I couldn't find a thing in Google. (ugh..)
Questions? Comments, technically feasible???
Question 3:
Alternatives? Has anyone used DD-WRT or Tomato to replace their router's firmware? Couldn't see if either of those would work, and since I dont have a router that supports it, (using an older belkin) I'd need to buy a NEW one, before attempting to try it.
SO... Please help. I really dont want to do 30GB of data on my AT&T plan, and piss them off the first month we're on the road...
Suggestions? Ideas? Yes, as soon as my $$$ is approved, the Millenicom is on my purchase list, and it should work great with any router.
Question 4: Once I have the millenicom plan, will I ALSO need to (still) bridge a network with my server when I switch to (either tethering to a plan), or to a wifi network?
MitchB.. (cheryl's other half!)
-- Edited by cheryls-other-half on Tuesday 17th of June 2014 11:50:53 PM
bjoyce said
03:32 PM Jun 17, 2014
If you do not already have the Cradlepoint MBR95, I would get a Pepwave Surf SOHO, it is more advanced. Both routers have Ethernet ports and WAN (incoming Ethernet port for a modem).
I know people running both DD-WRT and Tomato and they have fun with it, but do you really need it except to play with?
Your diagram looks like you are trying to solve a problem both routers and the WifiRanger already solve. Why? They will all work directly with your cable/dsl modem as one input on the WAN port. You should be able to feed from your server via an Ethernet cable, maybe a cross-over Ethernet cable if needed.
For all these routers you configure like any other router and attach your devices, laptops, printers, etc., via wifi and/or Ethernet. Where they are more interesting is they support multiple input methods, Ethernet, USB modems (which can be a hotspot tethered via USB if supported) and taking a wifi signal as input. And bandwidth monitoring. Then you can set up the inputs with priorities, fall back rules (slow or no internet, fall back to the next input on the list), bandwidth monitoring per input, etc.
One campground I go to uses Tengo wifi, 300MB of usage per 12 hours. I set it up as a wifi input, monitor the bandwidth and set up a 300MB per day limit (600 would not work many days since we hit the 300 inside 12 hours) and when the 300MB is hit, it falls back to our Millenicom hotspot. But I still get usage data from the campground wifi over our stay, to feed my detail oriented self with numbers. I can go into the router and manually override or change the order.
cheryls-other-half said
11:50 PM Jun 17, 2014
Augh, I hate the software on this board. I type some key, and it deletes all my data, and need to start over. (again...)
That's why the previous message was created in wordpad. (sigh)...
OK Bill: thanks for the answer, but I think I may have mis-stated the questions, and requests for suggestions:
a) Yes, I already have the Cradlepoint 95 hardware.
b) and feel free to correct me here...
The Cradlepoint will take the 3g/4g signal and distribute it via the rj45 port to a standard router (or just to a hub if I want),
where I can then distribute the signal to my internal lan. I am pretty sure this system will NOT take a USB wifi-card and understand the signal, (but will verify that tomorrow again!)
c) The current environment I currently have appears to be the exact inverse of this, where my desktop's wifi card is stealing the local (think mcdonalds or campground) wifi signal, and piping that info via the RJ45/ethernet wired port to a regular desktop router, which is then going to distribute it to my internal lan with MY SSID and password.
I asked about the WRT and/or Tomato software, because the stock router (belkin) I'm currently using stinks, (can't do dhcp reservations to ensure the devices keep the same ip)-[yes I can hardcode them too,just like i did in solaris or SunOS 20 years ago too], as well as unsure of the advanced features of those routers.. and it didn't work right away either.
and... SINCE we STILL haven't closed, money (for a new router that will RUN WRT or tomato firmware ) is DEFINITELY an issue right now...
and (yet another question) while you're using the Cradlepoint MBR95, when you get to the 20gb limit from milinicom, how are you passing the other signals to it (ie, simply via another usb modem/card?
I ask this because among the methods I plan to use are to occasionally tether my grandfathered phone in (most likely I guess via a usb cable to the (??) [I'm guessing I need to use the PC here, that it would NOT work simply phone to the usb port in the cradlepoint...)
it sucks being stuck in limbo here... I really want to get started and get back to work asap!)
cherylbrv said
09:28 AM Jun 18, 2014
The Junkman wrote:
...
Why are you folks doing all this software / hardware upgrades?... Is this for security? are you running some sort of online business where the outside world accesses your data? ...
I keep asking him the same question! I don't understand why we can't both have our laptops connected via a network and that's that. But I guess his answers are way too technical for me. I'm sure there's a method to his madness!!!
bjoyce said
10:18 AM Jun 18, 2014
The Cradlepoint MBR95 is pulling in the Millenicom hotspot via "Wifi as WAN" since Cradlepoint does not support the Pantech 291 via USB. I have multiple wifi's configured as input, ordered for fail over. I also have a Pepwave Surf Mini, which is an external wifi adapter that has an Ethernet port instead of USB. I can use it in the WAN port of the Cradlepoint if I need a stronger wifi adapter than the MBR95 can pull in. Download and read the MBR95 manual, it really is a nice router with useful firmware.
One reason I am thinking of getting the Pepwave Surf SOHO is it does support the Pantech 291 via USB. The Pepwave has really good firmware, you will feel at home with it. You can download its manual and look.
The WifiRanger will also do these things. I am not a fan of WifiRanger because they have a tendency to dumb down their systems too much for my liking and have had way too many problems with firmware updates. But, they seem to be much better now and I respect their champions like Jack Mayer and Technomadia. I have not had a chance to play with a WifiRanger or Pepwave Surf SOHO since I haven't really needed them and can find other things to spend money on.
Edit: Step back and get some perspective on what these things really do, instead of how you want them to work.
-- Edited by bjoyce on Wednesday 18th of June 2014 10:21:29 AM
cheryls-other-half said
10:40 AM Jun 18, 2014
cherylbrv wrote:
The Junkman wrote:
...
Why are you folks doing all this software / hardware upgrades?... Is this for security? are you running some sort of online business where the outside world accesses your data? ...
I keep asking him the same question! I don't understand why we can't both have our laptops connected via a network and that's that. But I guess his answers are way too technical for me. I'm sure there's a method to his madness!!!
PLAIN ENGLISH ANSWER.. (simple mode on...)
well. just like the technomadia folks, we need to be online. absolutely...
and that means not just having milenicom access, but ways of feeding other internet signals to our home devices.
(home devices = 2 laptops, a server, 2 tablets, 2 cell phones and a wifi printer.) phew.
[when you go WOW, just remind yourself at one point I had about 5 servers more in the mix... I be a techie at heart!]
Noone accessing OUR data. We need outside access to run OUR business.
So. simple again...
one (IP/internet) address inside the RV/HOUSE <<--->> a box to connect to the outside world (aka a router), and multiple thingies to connect to the router at different times/circumstances
hope that is non-technical enough.
cherylbrv said
10:51 AM Jun 18, 2014
So is it safe to assume that we need all this stuff in order to connect all the devices to the same IP address? If so, why is that important and is it something Steve (The Junkman) needs to do to run his Ebay business?
01zeosix said
11:39 AM Jun 18, 2014
cherylbrv wrote:
So is it safe to assume that we need all this stuff in order to connect all the devices to the same IP address? If so, why is that important and is it something Steve (The Junkman) needs to do to run his Ebay business?
I sent Mitch an email concerning this. It appears that you are over-engineering the setup.
You need is a SOURCE for/from the Internet (Hotspot i.e. Millenicom, USB 3G-4G - like a Pantech, Phone, External WIFI - Campground, Micky Dee's, etc.)
Connect your SOURCE to the CradlePoint MBR which will route your connection(s). It supports 32 concurrent connections out of the box. Connect via Wireless or through one of the four (yellow) LAN ports on the back of the router.
Using the information I sent to you via email, log into the MBR control panel and setup the private network and other settings there. Including a check for new BIOS software etc......
I have a Cradlepoint MBR 1400 that I use with a couple of GB switches. Handles everything for me, including VPN connections to a FTP server. Multiple PC's, NAS, Roku, multiple Android tablets, All-N-One printer, etc.... etc....
Easy Peasy.... Forget the Belkin unless it's a bridge. Start at the MBR and setup from there. Remember that the MBR is a 2GHz radio, not 5 GHz. You might also want to assign channels to various devices to help eliminate cross-chatter.
Hope this helps some.... Glad to hear that you're enjoying the "Suh-Weet"
cheryls-other-half said
12:58 PM Jun 18, 2014
cherylbrv wrote:
So is it safe to assume that we need all this stuff in order to connect all the devices to the same IP address? If so, why is that important and is it something Steve (The Junkman) needs to do to run his Ebay business?
Heh heh heh. our daughter used to chide us for IM'ing in the same room, now we're BBSing in the same room over the internet (again...just like 25 years ago with a 1 line analog bbs).
OK.. plain english:
a) our situation is more convoluted then normal, because we don't actually have a VZ/Millenicom 3G/4G modem yet... IF we did, that would cover 80% of our setup/configuration.
b) you said...snip... is it safe to assume that we need all this stuff in order to connect all the devices to the same IP address?
--yes, with the amount of devices we have (2pc's, 2 tablets, printers, server, etc), we want them to all be on one lan, and MOST IMPORTANT, when we change where we're getting the internet from (VZ/wifi/etc), we DONT want to have to change the IP addresses on ALL of those devices each time.,
------>> >THAT is the key... NOT changing the ip addresses .,..
c) If so, why is that important and is it something Steve (The Junkman) needs to do to run his Ebay business? I call a spade a spade. IDK (I don't know!) Perhaps??
did that help?
cheryls-other-half said
01:39 PM Jun 18, 2014
...snip...snip...snip...
and that means not just having milenicom access, but ways of feeding other internet signals
to our home devices. ...snip...
I said......snip... one (IP/internet) address inside the RV/HOUSE > a box to connect to the outside world (aka a router), and multiple thingies to connect to the router at different times/circumstances
----------------------------
What is "other internet signals" ? .. Please explain..
OK: Technomadia has discussed much of this already... but...
There are several reasons why you would have multiple internet signals
a) coverage (vendors) varies (verizon/AT&T/sprint)
b) monthly limits on transmit/receive.
unlike a S&B house, (Cable/DSL modems, Uverse or FIOS where you get unlimited
transmit/receive), the amount you get to send and receive per month in your RV WILL be limited.
Our future Millenicom plan will be 20GB per month
Cheryl's Verizon plan for her SmartpI hone will be 2GB max per month.
My grandfathered ATT plan for my theoretically unlimited smartphone is not really unlimited, I'd guess when I get to 10-15 gb in a month I'll get a nastygram from them telling me I am violating my Terms and Conditions, and that they will terminate me!
so that's why we might need multiple internet SOURCES
as usual, tell me if that ISN't simple enough!
-- Edited by cheryls-other-half on Wednesday 18th of June 2014 01:57:50 PM--formatting again..
-- Edited by cheryls-other-half on Wednesday 18th of June 2014 01:59:37 PM
cheryls-other-half said
02:54 PM Jun 18, 2014
... junkman said... Ok I get it. You are trying to set up multiple internet providers into a single wireless router? ( real simple..) biggrin
Price of the service is driving added internet suppliers? I was looking at the verizon Millencom, and you can just add another 20gb , once the first is gone.. I assume this is not cost effective?
...no, not really the greatest option. yes, it would work, but not greatest option, especially if I do have other options, like X Gb from my brother, or Y GB from (say MCDonalds or campsite), or even a cell phone in a pinch... and if there is no signal from Verizon/Millencom, but there is on AT&T... more agita.
cherylbrv said
03:17 PM Jun 18, 2014
My brain is exploding!
Lucky Mike said
03:46 PM Jun 18, 2014
I thought I heard a little firecracker go off.......
BiggarView said
03:47 PM Jun 18, 2014
cherylbrv wrote:
My brain is exploding!
Need a refill on that drink ma'am? Apparently not enough brain cells killed off on the first one.... have another. Repeat until you are incomprehensible. You won't care if your brain explodes then.
I only vaguely get what they are talking about. Something about networks, addresses, gigabits.... Oh geez now my brain hurts too. Gimme that drink, I need it
Brian
Lucky Mike said
05:25 PM Jun 18, 2014
I have sprint as one provider.....verizon(Milinicom) as my other....if all else fails Im well versed in smoke signals!!!
bjoyce said
10:07 PM Jun 18, 2014
The Cradlepoint has a guest wifi ability, which is a second outbound wifi that plays in its own IP space but will get bandwidth tracked. Set up the MBR95 as the center of the universe router, all inputs go through it, including multiple wifi inputs, and it puts out two networks, one that has Ethernet and wifi and the guest wifi that is for your devices you need to keep off the main network.
Update the MBR95 to the latest firmware, and go into the router webpages. Where you see "Basic", change to "Advanced".
We have two hotspots, plus campground wifi, plus sometimes have wired Ethernet input. I can manage all of these with my MBR95, which are on, which are off, which have higher priority, what usage levels they can handle and when those usage levels reset to zero. I think you will find it will do most, if not all you need, and if you need more it should be obvious.
Jack Mayer said
09:09 AM Jun 19, 2014
I'll make some comments which may or may not apply to the various situations here. I really don't want to insert myself in this at this point (been out of town busy for 4 days so I was not monitoring the board).
1) you do not - in general - want to have two routers in your typical RV/home network. If you do, you have to carefully configure them. There really is little reason to do this.
2) the more devices you have the more problems you have. Period. While this may seem obvious, simple is always best in networking.
3) I see little reason to buy a Cradlepoint 95 if you are buying it today. There are better devices, IMO. For the non-network aficionado I'd recommend another device. If you love networking and want a CP95, go for it....Personally, I'd rather see the "normal" person in a Pepwave SOHO over the 95. Or a WiFiRanger Go2. I see absolutely no reason to own a 95 at this point in time (although I have one).
4) Bill has provided some good advice about simplifying this and still achieving the goals. This actually is pretty simple to do with the right equipment.
5) Netgear N900 is a nice home router. It is not suitable - alone - for RV use IN MY OPINION. It does not have wifi as WAN, and it does not integrate cellular modems as an Internet source.
bjoyce said
09:17 AM Jun 19, 2014
The Junkman: Don't overlook the Pepwave Surf SOHO and the WifiRanger series. If I was buying new I would get a Pepwave Surf SOHO with added antennas instead since it can pull in wifi better, you can run the Millenicom 291 hotspot via USB and it has better bandwidth usage tracking. It does cost more, $130 alone or $160 with the added antennas from 3Gstore.com. Jack Mayer's review is linked from http://www.jackdanmayer.com/communication.htm.
cheryls-other-half said
11:30 AM Jun 19, 2014
Jack Mayer wrote:
I'll make some comments which may or may not apply to the various situations here. I really don't want to insert myself in this at this point (been out of town busy for 4 days so I was not monitoring the board).
1) you do not - in general - want to have two routers in your typical RV/home network. If you do, you have to carefully configure them. There really is little reason to do this.
2) the more devices you have the more problems you have. Period. While this may seem obvious, simple is always best in networking.
3) I see little reason to buy a Cradlepoint 95 if you are buying it today. There are better devices, IMO. For the non-network aficionado I'd recommend another device. If you love networking and want a CP95, go for it....Personally, I'd rather see the "normal" person in a Pepwave SOHO over the 95. Or a WiFiRanger Go2. I see absolutely no reason to own a 95 at this point in time (although I have one).
4) Bill has provided some good advice about simplifying this and still achieving the goals. This actually is pretty simple to do with the right equipment.
5) Netgear N900 is a nice home router. It is not suitable - alone - for RV use IN MY OPINION. It does not have wifi as WAN, and it does not integrate cellular modems as an Internet source.
Jack thanks for the comments.
some discussion: ... 1) you do not - in general - want to have two routers in your typical RV/home network. .. Agree whole-heartedly... Simpler is better-er.
...2) the more devices you have the more problems you have. Period. While this may seem obvious, simple is always best in networking. ..Ditto. See # 1 above.
3a) I see little reason to buy a Cradlepoint 95 if you are buying it today. ... Totally understand, this unit --not a mbr95, was gifted to me...at least I dont lose money there...
3b) There are better devices, IMO. ... Duly noted.
3c)For the non-network aficionado I'd recommend another device. ...durn, I'd agree. I don't like re-inventing the wheel.
3d) If you love networking and want a CP95, go for it.... ... See 3c above...
3d) Personally, I'd rather see the "normal" person in a Pepwave SOHO over the 95. ... hmm, need to compare the two.
Or a WiFiRanger Go2. I see absolutely no reason to own a 95 at this point in time (although I have one).
and see if I can limp by till september, when we'll be at the rally, and near the factory, and see if I can have that re-done, and rewired better ...
Thanks for your input..
Jack Mayer said
03:49 PM Jun 19, 2014
If you want to see a comparison of the SOHO to the WFR and Cradlepoint look at the review I wrote. You can find it here.
Jack Mayer said
07:23 AM Jun 28, 2014
The Junkman wrote:
Jack Mayer wrote:
If you want to see a comparison of the SOHO to the WFR and Cradlepoint look at the review I wrote. You can find it here.
How old is this review?
Someone posted I get the wi-fi ranger Sky with my DRV.. But don't see a review of it..? I do see other Ranger stuff...thx
Less than a year old - the date is on it.
The Sky will not perform as well as a Go2 with Mobile. But it will outperform the SOHO in almost every circumstance if you JUST want to capture wifi. But be aware that comparing the Sky to a SOHO is not an apples-to-apples comparison. They have different features and capabilities. The SKY has no ethernet ports and cannot connect a cellular modem. It is WiFi capture ONLY.
bjoyce said
09:13 AM Jun 29, 2014
I have been to a couple RV parks where you could go into the office and use an Ethernet cable to get online, but none to each campsite.
As to why have Ethernet, I can give you examples. They might not matter to you, but they might to others.
1) I have had to use Ethernet to set up a new computer. Once set up I could install or download the wireless driver.
2) You can hook a second router up via Ethernet to keep the networks separated for security.
3) I used Ethernet to update my DVD player since I did not want it on my wifi network. These kind of connected devices use lots of internet bandwidth, so keep those DVD players, game machines and smart TVs off your cellular wifi network.
4) You might bring a computer, printer, or something else with you that is set up for Ethernet and not wifi. With Ethernet available you can use it as-is and do not have to spend more money for a wifi adapter or a replacement for the unit.
Also, 4GLTE can be very fast and support many users. I have had better speeds than DSL. Yesterday I downloaded a 1.2GB file in 20 minutes.
Jack Mayer said
02:26 PM Jul 1, 2014
Just be aware that the Sky does not handle cellular modems directly. It will pick them up as a hotspot and repeat, but you do lose speed that way.
One use in your scenario for a hardwired system would be a NAS that you put all your movies on and served the up from there. Just a thought.
cheryls-other-half said
03:15 PM Jul 1, 2014
The Junkman wrote: ...snip...
Jack Mayer wrote:
One use in your scenario for a hardwired system would be a NAS that you put all your movies on and served the up from there. Just a thought.
Yeah, that's exactly the scenario, our nas /file server
Jack Mayer said
12:50 PM Jul 2, 2014
The Junkman wrote:
Jack Mayer wrote:
Why would I use the SKY with a hot spot? I would just connect to the hotspot direct. as in my cellphone hotspot.???
It didn't seem this hard when I was on the road using the verizon hotspot card thing.. turn it on.. connect.. done.. your on.. Pretty quick service too...
Will get to looking more into it.. Slammed training new owners for a couple weeks.
The reason to have a single network via a router that can handle multiple back-end connections to the Internet and present a single network connection to your devices is that you do not have to continually connect each device to whatever the "network of the day" is. In other words, connect one time for all the devices - one login, one hotspot name. The backend gets switched out based on available Internet. It could be cellular (directly tethered), or it could be a variety of wifi connections - offered by a park, nearby open hotspots, or your phones.
Having a single network means that your NAS, your TV, your printer, and other more "static" wifi devices that do not make reconfiguration particularly easy do not need to be messed with. Believe me -it makes life FAR simpler. Ever try to change a wifi printer to work on some random network? Now, if none of these factors apply to you, and you have a simple setup of a single laptop accessing an available wifi source (through the Sky) then you simply do not need a router.
Bill and Linda said
03:48 PM Jul 2, 2014
Jack Mayer wrote:
The Junkman wrote:
Jack Mayer wrote:
Why would I use the SKY with a hot spot? I would just connect to the hotspot direct. as in my cellphone hotspot.???
The reason to have a single network via a router that can handle multiple back-end connections to the Internet and present a single network connection to your devices is that you do not have to continually connect each device to whatever the "network of the day" is.
Having a single network means that your NAS, your TV, your printer, and other more "static" wifi devices that do not make reconfiguration particularly easy do not need to be messed with. Believe me -it makes life FAR simpler. Ever try to change a wifi printer to work on some random network?
This is a big deal, IMO as Jack has outlined.We’ve done it this way for years and when the “internet connection device de jour” is required to be changed due to technology moves we don’t have to reconfigure everything. Still one login, etc. as Jack said and the printers and network drives still work with their fixed IPs.
You can also do this with a mechanical switch, believe it or not, that is used to select the internet source to the router required under different situations / sources.Not very high tech, but it works really well and I’ve never had to reboot this switch.
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Wednesday 2nd of July 2014 03:51:06 PM
Jack Mayer said
07:58 AM Jul 3, 2014
Steve, you have to try to look at the big picture and protect against future desires/changes.
The Sky can handle multiple devices and act as a (limited) router. BUT, the limitations are twofold - first, it only handles wifi as the Internet source, and second it offers no LAN hardwired connections. Now, you have said that you do not care about hardwired (at the moment). So we will dismiss the second limitation.
To give you the most flexibility I would suggest that you want the WIFIRanger Go2. It is designed to work in conjunction with the Sky. If you are buying a router to use with the Sky I suggest that you stay within the family of WiFiRanger products.
bjoyce said
09:05 AM Jul 3, 2014
When you say you need Internet connectivity 24/7, satellite comes to mind and it uses Ethernet. People are still adding and using satellite internet because it is the only way to get internet in out of the way places. I had it for many years, until Verizon and AT&T were in enough places I was willing to live with the rare place we camped without internet. But, we do not need Internet 24/7.
bjoyce said
02:32 PM Jul 3, 2014
No, the TV satellites do not provide internet. Hughes.net and Starband come to mind for more normal people, iDirect and others for those willing to pay over $200 a month.
bjoyce said
07:30 PM Jul 3, 2014
Hughes.net is not unlimited, the $60 plan is around 300MB per day of download before they slow you way down. With Hughes.net you need to be on a Ku band plan, mostly they sell Ka band plans (Gen4) that are spot beamed and do not work for mobile. It looks like their website doesn't even cover the mobile plans. To get the mobile plans you probably have to go through http://www.rtc-vsat.com/ . Most users are on an $80 a month plan with a 425MB per day download limit, no upload limit and 5 hours in the middle of the night with no limit.
bjoyce said
09:07 AM Jul 4, 2014
Hughes.net needs its own dishes and modems. Starband can use standard equipment. But I am no expert on what works today, talk to Barb and Joe at http://www.mobileinternetsatellite.com/ to find out about plans, etc.
Mitch's Technical Question of the day. (To quote Cheryl, if I need tech support, it MUST be a 'doozie of a question')
I apologize in advance, this will be a quite technical post, possibly over the heads of many readers, please accept my apologies, and just skip the message if that's the case!
quick picture of what we want:
Summary of Questions HERE:
a) Problems getting a win7 bridged connection between wifi and RJ45 to feed into a router successfully
b) has anyone done this before to feed their router in their rig?
c) how do YOU feed the 2nd/3rd /4th data source into the router after your 20gb monthly is gone???
Details of discussion HERE:
Bill Joyce said (and I quote, because he is using the same Cradlepoint we will be using once we're set up:) original here:
...snip...I run our (Millenicom) through a Cradlepoint MBR95 router to get usage data
. ...snip...Comparing the MBR95 usage numbers to the website, it runs about 3% high, which is in my favor.... snip...
Our hotspot does not show usage itself, even though it will if you are a direct Verizon customer.
... KEY POINT TOO highlighted and emphasized(for me...)
...snip... since the Millenicom hotspot is not our only internet source, using a router makes sense. Our wireless printer and all of our computers and tablets only know the router's WiFi name (SSID), so we can switch the router from Millenicom to our AT&T hotspot or to campground WiFi, and all the devices still connect and work.
mitch says... Let's call this GOAL #1
...Bill Joyce,
This too is my eventual goal. My network would all have the same IP addresses, and I wouldn't have to move my printers, or tablets to ping each other.
_________________
BUT: Problems arise (as always in life, how you solve them is part of the fun of living and growing, and learning!...)
Problem # 1:
WE still haven't closed on the sale of our S&B house, therefore have no $$$ to buy the VZ/Mcom plan yet.
Problem # 2:
Current internet is coming from a) a local wifi hotspot and b) my 'grandfathered' AT&T smartphone, with unlimited data plan..
Question 1:
My initial attempt to achieve Goal # 1 (all units on same internal lan via a gateway) was this:
Take my server (Yes, I still have one, but now ONLY ONE!)--ask cheryl about the pains it took to go to ONLY one!
Install a USB wifi card, to local WIFI network. (and verify it works ok[validates, gets IP address, and can talk to the internet/DNS ok] info that I need)
Take the RJ45/ethernet port, tell Windoze 7 that I want to bridge the wifi and the RJ45 connections, and then assign sequential #'s to the ports (SEE diagram HERE)
Test that a laptop COULD get a good address from the rj45 port, and make it out to the internet.
Well I stop here, because it didn't WORK.
The laptop (192.168.0.8) hard coded did not get online to the internet, but I COULD VNC from 08 (laptop) to 07 (desktop), so the CONNECTION/bridge did work between the two of them.
I stopped here, I figured it's smarter to NOT re-invent the wheel if one of you GUYZE have already done it!
Question 2.
Remember, I am limited in resources here.
This configuration seems to be the ABSOLUTE wardsback (back ass-wards) version of what I will be doing with the CRADLEPOINT (taking a 3G/4G cell signal from a card, and then passing that to a normal (HOME?) router, which will see that , and distribute the signal on wifi as normally done.
[Here, we are attempting to take a WIFI signal FROM the wifi (guest) network and passing that to the RJ45 WIRED port, and then sending that into a home ROUTER, (via the dsl/cable modem port), and telling the ROUTER that it is a hardcoded Static ip from the ISP.]
I couldn't find a thing in Google. (ugh..)
Questions? Comments, technically feasible???
Question 3:
Alternatives?
Has anyone used DD-WRT or Tomato to replace their router's firmware?
Couldn't see if either of those would work, and since I dont have a router that supports it, (using an older belkin) I'd need to buy a NEW one, before attempting to try it.
SO... Please help. I really dont want to do 30GB of data on my AT&T plan, and piss them off the first month we're on the road...
Suggestions? Ideas? Yes, as soon as my $$$ is approved, the Millenicom is on my purchase list, and it should work great with any router.
Question 4:
Once I have the millenicom plan, will I ALSO need to (still) bridge a network with my server when I switch to (either tethering to a plan), or to a wifi network?
MitchB.. (cheryl's other half!)
-- Edited by cheryls-other-half on Tuesday 17th of June 2014 11:50:53 PM
I know people running both DD-WRT and Tomato and they have fun with it, but do you really need it except to play with?
Your diagram looks like you are trying to solve a problem both routers and the WifiRanger already solve. Why? They will all work directly with your cable/dsl modem as one input on the WAN port. You should be able to feed from your server via an Ethernet cable, maybe a cross-over Ethernet cable if needed.
For all these routers you configure like any other router and attach your devices, laptops, printers, etc., via wifi and/or Ethernet. Where they are more interesting is they support multiple input methods, Ethernet, USB modems (which can be a hotspot tethered via USB if supported) and taking a wifi signal as input. And bandwidth monitoring. Then you can set up the inputs with priorities, fall back rules (slow or no internet, fall back to the next input on the list), bandwidth monitoring per input, etc.
One campground I go to uses Tengo wifi, 300MB of usage per 12 hours. I set it up as a wifi input, monitor the bandwidth and set up a 300MB per day limit (600 would not work many days since we hit the 300 inside 12 hours) and when the 300MB is hit, it falls back to our Millenicom hotspot. But I still get usage data from the campground wifi over our stay, to feed my detail oriented self with numbers. I can go into the router and manually override or change the order.
That's why the previous message was created in wordpad. (sigh)...
OK Bill: thanks for the answer, but I think I may have mis-stated the questions, and requests for suggestions:
a) Yes, I already have the Cradlepoint 95 hardware.
b) and feel free to correct me here...
The Cradlepoint will take the 3g/4g signal and distribute it via the rj45 port to a standard router (or just to a hub if I want),
where I can then distribute the signal to my internal lan. I am pretty sure this system will NOT take a USB wifi-card and understand the signal, (but will verify that tomorrow again!)
c) The current environment I currently have appears to be the exact inverse of this, where my desktop's wifi card is stealing the local (think mcdonalds or campground) wifi signal, and piping that info via the RJ45/ethernet wired port to a regular desktop router, which is then going to distribute it to my internal lan with MY SSID and password.
I asked about the WRT and/or Tomato software, because the stock router (belkin) I'm currently using stinks, (can't do dhcp reservations to ensure the devices keep the same ip)-[yes I can hardcode them too,just like i did in solaris or SunOS 20 years ago too], as well as unsure of the advanced features of those routers.. and it didn't work right away either.
and... SINCE we STILL haven't closed, money (for a new router that will RUN WRT or tomato firmware ) is DEFINITELY an issue right now...
and (yet another question) while you're using the Cradlepoint MBR95, when you get to the 20gb limit from milinicom, how are you passing the other signals to it (ie, simply via another usb modem/card?
I ask this because among the methods I plan to use are to occasionally tether my grandfathered phone in (most likely I guess via a usb cable to the (??) [I'm guessing I need to use the PC here, that it would NOT work simply phone to the usb port in the cradlepoint...)
it sucks being stuck in limbo here... I really want to get started and get back to work asap!)
I keep asking him the same question! I don't understand why we can't both have our laptops connected via a network and that's that. But I guess his answers are way too technical for me. I'm sure there's a method to his madness!!!
The Cradlepoint MBR95 is pulling in the Millenicom hotspot via "Wifi as WAN" since Cradlepoint does not support the Pantech 291 via USB. I have multiple wifi's configured as input, ordered for fail over. I also have a Pepwave Surf Mini, which is an external wifi adapter that has an Ethernet port instead of USB. I can use it in the WAN port of the Cradlepoint if I need a stronger wifi adapter than the MBR95 can pull in. Download and read the MBR95 manual, it really is a nice router with useful firmware.
One reason I am thinking of getting the Pepwave Surf SOHO is it does support the Pantech 291 via USB. The Pepwave has really good firmware, you will feel at home with it. You can download its manual and look.
The WifiRanger will also do these things. I am not a fan of WifiRanger because they have a tendency to dumb down their systems too much for my liking and have had way too many problems with firmware updates. But, they seem to be much better now and I respect their champions like Jack Mayer and Technomadia. I have not had a chance to play with a WifiRanger or Pepwave Surf SOHO since I haven't really needed them and can find other things to spend money on.
Edit: Step back and get some perspective on what these things really do, instead of how you want them to work.
-- Edited by bjoyce on Wednesday 18th of June 2014 10:21:29 AM
PLAIN ENGLISH ANSWER.. (simple mode on...)
well. just like the technomadia folks, we need to be online. absolutely...
and that means not just having milenicom access, but ways of feeding other internet signals to our home devices.
(home devices = 2 laptops, a server, 2 tablets, 2 cell phones and a wifi printer.) phew.
[when you go WOW, just remind yourself at one point I had about 5 servers more in the mix... I be a techie at heart!]
Noone accessing OUR data. We need outside access to run OUR business.
So. simple again...
one (IP/internet) address inside the RV/HOUSE <<--->> a box to connect to the outside world (aka a router), and multiple thingies to connect to the router at different times/circumstances
hope that is non-technical enough.
I sent Mitch an email concerning this. It appears that you are over-engineering the setup.
You need is a SOURCE for/from the Internet (Hotspot i.e. Millenicom, USB 3G-4G - like a Pantech, Phone, External WIFI - Campground, Micky Dee's, etc.)
Connect your SOURCE to the CradlePoint MBR which will route your connection(s). It supports 32 concurrent connections out of the box. Connect via Wireless or through one of the four (yellow) LAN ports on the back of the router.
Using the information I sent to you via email, log into the MBR control panel and setup the private network and other settings there. Including a check for new BIOS software etc......
I have a Cradlepoint MBR 1400 that I use with a couple of GB switches. Handles everything for me, including VPN connections to a FTP server. Multiple PC's, NAS, Roku, multiple Android tablets, All-N-One printer, etc.... etc....
Easy Peasy.... Forget the Belkin unless it's a bridge. Start at the MBR and setup from there. Remember that the MBR is a 2GHz radio, not 5 GHz. You might also want to assign channels to various devices to help eliminate cross-chatter.
Hope this helps some.... Glad to hear that you're enjoying the "Suh-Weet"
Heh heh heh. our daughter used to chide us for IM'ing in the same room, now we're BBSing in the same room over the internet (again...just like 25 years ago with a 1 line analog bbs).
OK.. plain english:
a) our situation is more convoluted then normal, because we don't actually have a VZ/Millenicom 3G/4G modem yet... IF we did, that would cover 80% of our setup/configuration.
b) you said...snip... is it safe to assume that we need all this stuff in order to connect all the devices to the same IP address?
--yes, with the amount of devices we have (2pc's, 2 tablets, printers, server, etc), we want them to all be on one lan, and MOST IMPORTANT, when we change where we're getting the internet from (VZ/wifi/etc), we DONT want to have to change the IP addresses on ALL of those devices each time.,
------>> >THAT is the key... NOT changing the ip addresses .,..
c) If so, why is that important and is it something Steve (The Junkman) needs to do to run his Ebay business? I call a spade a spade. IDK (I don't know!) Perhaps??
did that help?
My grandfathered ATT plan for my theoretically unlimited smartphone is not really unlimited, I'd guess when I get to 10-15 gb in a month I'll get a nastygram from them telling me I am violating my Terms and Conditions, and that they will terminate me!
so that's why we might need multiple internet SOURCES as usual, tell me if that ISN't simple enough!
-- Edited by cheryls-other-half on Wednesday 18th of June 2014 01:57:50 PM--formatting again..
-- Edited by cheryls-other-half on Wednesday 18th of June 2014 01:59:37 PM
Ok I get it. You are trying to set up multiple internet providers into a single wireless router? ( real simple..) biggrin
Price of the service is driving added internet suppliers? I was looking at the verizon Millencom, and you can just add another 20gb , once the first is gone.. I assume this is not cost effective?
...no, not really the greatest option. yes, it would work, but not greatest option, especially if I do have other options, like X Gb from my brother, or Y GB from (say MCDonalds or campsite), or even a cell phone in a pinch...
and if there is no signal from Verizon/Millencom, but there is on AT&T... more agita.
I thought I heard a little firecracker go off.......
Need a refill on that drink ma'am? Apparently not enough brain cells killed off on the first one.... have another. Repeat until you are incomprehensible. You won't care if your brain explodes then.
I only vaguely get what they are talking about.
Something about networks, addresses, gigabits.... Oh geez now my brain hurts too. Gimme that drink, I need it
Brian
I have sprint as one provider.....verizon(Milinicom) as my other....if all else fails Im well versed in smoke signals!!!
Update the MBR95 to the latest firmware, and go into the router webpages. Where you see "Basic", change to "Advanced".
We have two hotspots, plus campground wifi, plus sometimes have wired Ethernet input. I can manage all of these with my MBR95, which are on, which are off, which have higher priority, what usage levels they can handle and when those usage levels reset to zero. I think you will find it will do most, if not all you need, and if you need more it should be obvious.
1) you do not - in general - want to have two routers in your typical RV/home network. If you do, you have to carefully configure them. There really is little reason to do this.
2) the more devices you have the more problems you have. Period. While this may seem obvious, simple is always best in networking.
3) I see little reason to buy a Cradlepoint 95 if you are buying it today. There are better devices, IMO. For the non-network aficionado I'd recommend another device. If you love networking and want a CP95, go for it....Personally, I'd rather see the "normal" person in a Pepwave SOHO over the 95. Or a WiFiRanger Go2. I see absolutely no reason to own a 95 at this point in time (although I have one).
4) Bill has provided some good advice about simplifying this and still achieving the goals. This actually is pretty simple to do with the right equipment.
5) Netgear N900 is a nice home router. It is not suitable - alone - for RV use IN MY OPINION. It does not have wifi as WAN, and it does not integrate cellular modems as an Internet source.
The Junkman: Don't overlook the Pepwave Surf SOHO and the WifiRanger series. If I was buying new I would get a Pepwave Surf SOHO with added antennas instead since it can pull in wifi better, you can run the Millenicom 291 hotspot via USB and it has better bandwidth usage tracking. It does cost more, $130 alone or $160 with the added antennas from 3Gstore.com. Jack Mayer's review is linked from http://www.jackdanmayer.com/communication.htm.
Jack
thanks for the comments.
some discussion:
... 1) you do not - in general - want to have two routers in your typical RV/home network.
.. Agree whole-heartedly... Simpler is better-er.
...2) the more devices you have the more problems you have. Period.
While this may seem obvious, simple is always best in networking.
..Ditto. See # 1 above.
3a) I see little reason to buy a Cradlepoint 95 if you are buying it today.
... Totally understand, this unit --not a mbr95, was gifted to me...at least I dont lose money there...
3b) There are better devices, IMO.
... Duly noted.
3c)For the non-network aficionado I'd recommend another device.
...durn, I'd agree. I don't like re-inventing the wheel.
3d) If you love networking and want a CP95, go for it....
... See 3c above...
3d) Personally, I'd rather see the "normal" person in a Pepwave SOHO over the 95.
... hmm, need to compare the two.
Or a WiFiRanger Go2. I see absolutely no reason to own a 95 at this point in time (although I have one).
and see if I can limp by till september, when we'll be at the rally, and near the factory, and see if I can have that re-done, and rewired better ...
Thanks for your input..
If you want to see a comparison of the SOHO to the WFR and Cradlepoint look at the review I wrote. You can find it here.
Less than a year old - the date is on it.
The Sky will not perform as well as a Go2 with Mobile. But it will outperform the SOHO in almost every circumstance if you JUST want to capture wifi. But be aware that comparing the Sky to a SOHO is not an apples-to-apples comparison. They have different features and capabilities. The SKY has no ethernet ports and cannot connect a cellular modem. It is WiFi capture ONLY.
As to why have Ethernet, I can give you examples. They might not matter to you, but they might to others.
1) I have had to use Ethernet to set up a new computer. Once set up I could install or download the wireless driver.
2) You can hook a second router up via Ethernet to keep the networks separated for security.
3) I used Ethernet to update my DVD player since I did not want it on my wifi network. These kind of connected devices use lots of internet bandwidth, so keep those DVD players, game machines and smart TVs off your cellular wifi network.
4) You might bring a computer, printer, or something else with you that is set up for Ethernet and not wifi. With Ethernet available you can use it as-is and do not have to spend more money for a wifi adapter or a replacement for the unit.
Also, 4GLTE can be very fast and support many users. I have had better speeds than DSL. Yesterday I downloaded a 1.2GB file in 20 minutes.
One use in your scenario for a hardwired system would be a NAS that you put all your movies on and served the up from there. Just a thought.
The reason to have a single network via a router that can handle multiple back-end connections to the Internet and present a single network connection to your devices is that you do not have to continually connect each device to whatever the "network of the day" is. In other words, connect one time for all the devices - one login, one hotspot name. The backend gets switched out based on available Internet. It could be cellular (directly tethered), or it could be a variety of wifi connections - offered by a park, nearby open hotspots, or your phones.
Having a single network means that your NAS, your TV, your printer, and other more "static" wifi devices that do not make reconfiguration particularly easy do not need to be messed with. Believe me -it makes life FAR simpler. Ever try to change a wifi printer to work on some random network? Now, if none of these factors apply to you, and you have a simple setup of a single laptop accessing an available wifi source (through the Sky) then you simply do not need a router.
This is a big deal, IMO as Jack has outlined. We’ve done it this way for years and when the “internet connection device de jour” is required to be changed due to technology moves we don’t have to reconfigure everything. Still one login, etc. as Jack said and the printers and network drives still work with their fixed IPs.
You can also do this with a mechanical switch, believe it or not, that is used to select the internet source to the router required under different situations / sources. Not very high tech, but it works really well and I’ve never had to reboot this switch.
http://www.amazon.com/2PORT-CAT5-Manual-Switch-Beige/dp/B000JHEKIM
or
http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-NETWORK-SWITCH-PORT-RJ45/dp/B000I96BVK/ref=pd_sim_e_2/181-7318778-9559520?ie=UTF8&refRID=18W6P0F9BYVSRFXB718T
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Wednesday 2nd of July 2014 03:51:06 PM
The Sky can handle multiple devices and act as a (limited) router. BUT, the limitations are twofold - first, it only handles wifi as the Internet source, and second it offers no LAN hardwired connections. Now, you have said that you do not care about hardwired (at the moment). So we will dismiss the second limitation.
To give you the most flexibility I would suggest that you want the WIFIRanger Go2. It is designed to work in conjunction with the Sky. If you are buying a router to use with the Sky I suggest that you stay within the family of WiFiRanger products.
Hughes.net is not unlimited, the $60 plan is around 300MB per day of download before they slow you way down. With Hughes.net you need to be on a Ku band plan, mostly they sell Ka band plans (Gen4) that are spot beamed and do not work for mobile. It looks like their website doesn't even cover the mobile plans. To get the mobile plans you probably have to go through http://www.rtc-vsat.com/ . Most users are on an $80 a month plan with a 425MB per day download limit, no upload limit and 5 hours in the middle of the night with no limit.
Hughes.net needs its own dishes and modems. Starband can use standard equipment. But I am no expert on what works today, talk to Barb and Joe at http://www.mobileinternetsatellite.com/ to find out about plans, etc.