Does anyone use or have a review on the Magnum Auto Gen Start (AGS)? There are times I would love to be able to put the generator on a timer, and this appears to fit the bill (here's a link to where I saw it: http://www.palmerenergysystems.com/, 4th link down on the left).
On the subject of automatic generator start systems I have some opinions. Most people I know who installed them use them rarely, if they use them at all. They installed for piece of mind or worry about their pets in hot weather. But, there are definitely people who use them.
AGS units use inside temperature and/or low battery voltage to determine when to start and these are programmable. Most also have a clock in them so you can set "quiet hours" when the generator will not be started, a requirement in many places. The fun comes in on how they turn off the generator. If your air conditioner is running when the generator stops, it can be damaged if you do this a lot. They are not built to be shut off hard on a regular basis. If your generator is under a good load when turned off, it can also be damaged. Generators should have a chance to stabilize when they start and when they stop. If you commonly use the AGS to stop the generator while under load it will fail, as will the air conditioners you keep shutting off while they are running. I have heard of people damaging their air conditioners and/or generators with common use of an AGS. The Magnum version has been called out since it is common to set it to run for a certain time and then shut off, about the worst case.
Why do you want it? Are you worried your batteries will get too low or you pets will get too hot? How often will you need it? You have to make sure the generator you have is compatible, you have to run the proper wiring to it, you have to buy all the parts, and you have to spend the money for it all.
We do not have one. We try not to boondock in hot weather. When we do boondock in hot weather we use our roof fans to keep the air moving.
cherylbrv said
04:46 PM May 27, 2014
To be honest, I am Jewish and observe the sabbath, when I am really not supposed to turn on electricity. Having the generator on a timer or able to start and stop at certain hours would be great. Ideally what appealed to me was that it would turn on when the batteries got low, so I wouldn't need to be concerned about turning it on, but then, if I don't program it to turn off, it would keep on running, right? And if that's at night, it could disturb folks whose driveway I may be moochdocking in during the sabbath. But I understand what you're saying and it may not be an ideal solution after all.
Oh well, back to the drawing board....
bjoyce said
06:16 PM May 27, 2014
If you are not using electricity, then your batteries will not run down.
I admit to not knowing the rules, but suspect most Jewish people keep their electricity usage to a minimum, but still leave the main breaker on to the house so the fridge, etc., still runs. You can do the same.
I don't think you can configure an AGS to run an efficient external generator like a Honda. They are for built-in models, which are often larger and use more fuel. Our previous gas motorhome had a 5500 watt generator that used around 3/4 gallon of gas per hour, our current 7500 watt diesel uses about 1/2 gallon per hour. You do not want to run these all day, the fuel cost will pay for a full hookup campground.
When we moochdock, we hook up an extension cord and live with the 5 to 10 amps of usable shore power we get.
cherylbrv said
06:22 PM May 27, 2014
The fridge, a/c and some lights would need to be kept on for 24 hrs. We should have an Onan 5500. We'll figure it out. Again, this is me over planning too far in advance!!!
Jack Mayer said
07:10 AM May 28, 2014
Personally, I don't like the AGS, for the reasons Bill stated. I've put them in, but in every case the people have not used them much - in one case not at all. You cannot use them in an RV park. And if boondocking they really are not necessary, since you will be there to monitor your systems. The ONLY possible use I can come up with is for pets, and as a backup only for AC. And that may not work as well as you think.
I'm sure there are people that use them and love them. I just don't know anyone in that category.
DEWhit said
06:37 PM May 28, 2014
This is just an off the cuff idea, but could not a used standard household lo voltage thermostat be used and wired lo voltage into a seperate generator starter relay and fuel pump or the primary relay to crank the generator in very hot or very cold weather ?
The thermostat could be set for temp or for time duration to kick out the starter relay and the fuel shutoff.
This type setup could be cheap but also has some flaws as far as keeping it on a cheap budget due to fuel usage and shutoff or including your generator safety shutdown in the wiring.
I think I would just take any animals with me where I went and save the cash.
Another idea would be to look for a used or salvage reefer thermostat.
They are expensive new, but cheap used.
Some would do the trick but many are set up for perishable lo temps and frozen temps and would need resetting and match to your particular generator unit.
cherylbrv said
07:16 PM May 28, 2014
The concept was that the generator would go on to charge the batteries when they started to run low, so that I didn't have to turn it on manually on my Sabbath. Clearly this doesn't seem like an option and I will just need to work around - either God will forgive me, or I'll make sure to be on FHU during that time.
manycats said
07:42 PM May 28, 2014
Do you turn your breakers off in your house or do you leave your fridge/freezer on during Sabbath? I don't think you're obligated to risk damaging your appliances or hurting your pets, not using electricity is more a personal sacrifice that you offer for your faith and it's not intended to cause harm.
bjoyce said
09:19 PM May 28, 2014
I think Cheryl has figured out she is overplanning at this stage. About any RV can run 24 hours on its batteries, if you have enough batteries and turn off all non-essential devices. That would be my solution, enough batteries to run the minimum needed for 24 hours, which will cover Shabbat. For some RVs this would be 2 batteries, for most of the rest 4 will be enough. You don't need to come up with complex solutions like AGS, there are simpler methods.
cherylbrv said
08:40 AM May 29, 2014
Thanks Bill! Yep - overplanning and looking for something to worry about. My tagline in my business is "I sweat the small stuff." As you can see, I really DO!!!
Lucky Mike said
09:59 AM May 29, 2014
what -ever you do Cheryl.....Stay out of campers world your first 3 months on the road....theres a possibility your going to be overloaded
Live , breathe ,Relax
you will always buy things you think you need.....better to start out without them and then determine if you really needed them at all !!!!........nothing is worse than the purging that comes after you put what you thought you needed onboard and realized its not....
Nikki...Says!!
Smile your at the gate and soon the leash will be off !!!!
CurveCarver said
10:22 AM May 29, 2014
Bill and Jack are way more knowledgeable and expert than I and I have nothing but the utmost respect for them both. When either of them have something to say I listen, b/c I continue to learn so much from them. Although I'm sure my situation isn't an ideal setup it has worked well for me. So here is my two cents from my experience over the past 4+ years.
I have a 12.5 KW Onan and a Magnum 2800 with AGS. There are 2 15000 BTU A/C's installed. I boondock 98% of the time. AGS is almost always on except @ night, typically set to start VDC @ 12.2 V. This time of the year in S CA when it's going to be hot while I'm working AGS is set to start @ 90* F to run for anywhere from 2 to 6 hours. The genny has more than 5000 hours on it. The only repair it has needed is a set of brushes. I have not had a problem with A/C's. The only time I kick myself about the AGS is when I forget to change the Run Time and the genny runs more hours than needed but other than that I am very thankful for the capability. As I said this may not be ideal but necessary for my lifestyle. Good luck in your endeavors.
BiggarView said
10:38 AM May 29, 2014
I have to agree with Bruce WRT Bill & Jack... in that light, the new Magnum 3000 hybrid invertor/charger. It handles load sharing(yes?) and so would that be a factor in AGS functions and A/C running. As Bill mentioned, potential issues with genny's suddenly stopping or starting and the harm it can do to both genny and A/C. Would the Magnum unit smooth out the power being supplied in some manner during an AGS cycle. To be clear, from the points made by them we don't foresee an AGS system in our future(at least not at this time) and please excuse my ignorance of how the generator, hybrid invertor/charger systems work as a system. I'm learning, with many questions still to come
Brian
-- Edited by biggaRView on Thursday 29th of May 2014 10:40:54 AM
bjoyce said
11:09 AM May 29, 2014
I don't think the hybrid would make any difference in AGS operation, since nothing is said in my manual. The first hybrid's from Magnum did have problems when used with some generators, but they fixed that. I can't see how load sharing would come in with the kind of generators that AGS works with, those are the big built-in models that can provide enough amps of power that load sharing does not come into play.
On damage to both the generator and A/C's, I was going with what I have seen on the Newmar forums and what my father-in-law saw on the Monaco forums. The generator and A/C manufacturers also recommend against doing abrupt shutdowns under load, but who listens to them.
Jack Mayer said
10:35 AM May 30, 2014
The AGS works well in some circumstances. But "mostly" is not needed unless you fall into those sets of circumstances. Most people can avoid the complexity and cost.
Load sharing would only be a factor on devices on the inverter subpanel. Not on high draw appliances which are typically not on the inverter.
BiggarView said
11:00 AM May 30, 2014
Jack Mayer wrote:
The AGS works well in some circumstances. But "mostly" is not needed unless you fall into those sets of circumstances. Most people can avoid the complexity and cost.
Load sharing would only be a factor on devices on the inverter subpanel. Not on high draw appliances which are typically not on the inverter.
Thanks Jack, that cleared that bit of confusion about the load sharing functions. Avoiding complexity and cost are winning arguments for me.
The Hensons said
08:04 PM Jun 18, 2014
I had a Magnum tech out to my rig today and I told him I was considering installing a AGS. He suggested I drop my LowBattCutOut (LBCO) to 11.5v instead. He said that will give enough wiggle room for the inverter to "hang in there" for an extra minute or so when a surge (like a fridge compressor or microwave) takes it that low without cutting off the inverter.
I'm curious to know other opinions on this. What do you set your LBCO at? I'm using a Magnum 3000 hybrid, fwiw.
Jack Mayer said
09:55 AM Jun 19, 2014
Unless you have big draws (loads) the 11.5 will work well. It should never be higher than that. However if your battery bank is smaller and the loads higher then it will dip below the 11.5 for too long and cutout. It all depends on how big the battery bank is....but I assume the tech took that into account.
The Hensons said
08:56 PM Jun 19, 2014
Thanks Jack...I have 440Ah AGM battery bank...so not small but not big either.
Does anyone use or have a review on the Magnum Auto Gen Start (AGS)? There are times I would love to be able to put the generator on a timer, and this appears to fit the bill (here's a link to where I saw it: http://www.palmerenergysystems.com/, 4th link down on the left).
http://www.magnumenergy.com/products/AGS-N.htm links you to the manuals, etc.
On the subject of automatic generator start systems I have some opinions. Most people I know who installed them use them rarely, if they use them at all. They installed for piece of mind or worry about their pets in hot weather. But, there are definitely people who use them.
AGS units use inside temperature and/or low battery voltage to determine when to start and these are programmable. Most also have a clock in them so you can set "quiet hours" when the generator will not be started, a requirement in many places. The fun comes in on how they turn off the generator. If your air conditioner is running when the generator stops, it can be damaged if you do this a lot. They are not built to be shut off hard on a regular basis. If your generator is under a good load when turned off, it can also be damaged. Generators should have a chance to stabilize when they start and when they stop. If you commonly use the AGS to stop the generator while under load it will fail, as will the air conditioners you keep shutting off while they are running. I have heard of people damaging their air conditioners and/or generators with common use of an AGS. The Magnum version has been called out since it is common to set it to run for a certain time and then shut off, about the worst case.
Why do you want it? Are you worried your batteries will get too low or you pets will get too hot? How often will you need it? You have to make sure the generator you have is compatible, you have to run the proper wiring to it, you have to buy all the parts, and you have to spend the money for it all.
We do not have one. We try not to boondock in hot weather. When we do boondock in hot weather we use our roof fans to keep the air moving.
Oh well, back to the drawing board....
I admit to not knowing the rules, but suspect most Jewish people keep their electricity usage to a minimum, but still leave the main breaker on to the house so the fridge, etc., still runs. You can do the same.
I don't think you can configure an AGS to run an efficient external generator like a Honda. They are for built-in models, which are often larger and use more fuel. Our previous gas motorhome had a 5500 watt generator that used around 3/4 gallon of gas per hour, our current 7500 watt diesel uses about 1/2 gallon per hour. You do not want to run these all day, the fuel cost will pay for a full hookup campground.
When we moochdock, we hook up an extension cord and live with the 5 to 10 amps of usable shore power we get.
I'm sure there are people that use them and love them. I just don't know anyone in that category.
This is just an off the cuff idea, but could not a used standard household lo voltage thermostat be used and wired lo voltage into a seperate generator starter relay and fuel pump or the primary relay to crank the generator in very hot or very cold weather ?
The thermostat could be set for temp or for time duration to kick out the starter relay and the fuel shutoff.
This type setup could be cheap but also has some flaws as far as keeping it on a cheap budget due to fuel usage and shutoff or including your generator safety shutdown in the wiring.
I think I would just take any animals with me where I went and save the cash.
Another idea would be to look for a used or salvage reefer thermostat.
They are expensive new, but cheap used.
Some would do the trick but many are set up for perishable lo temps and frozen temps and would need resetting and match to your particular generator unit.
Live , breathe ,Relax
you will always buy things you think you need.....better to start out without them and then determine if you really needed them at all !!!!........nothing is worse than the purging that comes after you put what you thought you needed onboard and realized its not....
Nikki...Says!!
Smile your at the gate and soon the leash will be off !!!!
I have a 12.5 KW Onan and a Magnum 2800 with AGS. There are 2 15000 BTU A/C's installed. I boondock 98% of the time. AGS is almost always on except @ night, typically set to start VDC @ 12.2 V. This time of the year in S CA when it's going to be hot while I'm working AGS is set to start @ 90* F to run for anywhere from 2 to 6 hours. The genny has more than 5000 hours on it. The only repair it has needed is a set of brushes. I have not had a problem with A/C's. The only time I kick myself about the AGS is when I forget to change the Run Time and the genny runs more hours than needed but other than that I am very thankful for the capability. As I said this may not be ideal but necessary for my lifestyle. Good luck in your endeavors.
I have to agree with Bruce WRT Bill & Jack... in that light, the new Magnum 3000 hybrid invertor/charger. It handles load sharing(yes?) and so would that be a factor in AGS functions and A/C running. As Bill mentioned, potential issues with genny's suddenly stopping or starting and the harm it can do to both genny and A/C. Would the Magnum unit smooth out the power being supplied in some manner during an AGS cycle. To be clear, from the points made by them we don't foresee an AGS system in our future(at least not at this time) and please excuse my ignorance of how the generator, hybrid invertor/charger systems work as a system. I'm learning, with many questions still to come
Brian
-- Edited by biggaRView on Thursday 29th of May 2014 10:40:54 AM
On damage to both the generator and A/C's, I was going with what I have seen on the Newmar forums and what my father-in-law saw on the Monaco forums. The generator and A/C manufacturers also recommend against doing abrupt shutdowns under load, but who listens to them.
Load sharing would only be a factor on devices on the inverter subpanel. Not on high draw appliances which are typically not on the inverter.
Thanks Jack, that cleared that bit of confusion about the load sharing functions. Avoiding complexity and cost are winning arguments for me.
I'm curious to know other opinions on this. What do you set your LBCO at? I'm using a Magnum 3000 hybrid, fwiw.