I feel so bad for the couple involved in this and my sympathies go out to the officers family. I have seen this time and again. They put the constructions signs way to close to the construction, so that traffic is already upon it or the back-up before they realize it is there or they have signs out for days on end with NO construction that all the regular drivers who pass through the area get apathetic to the signs. We had a UPS semi-driver killed here several years ago, because they were doing construction and there were no signs before a blind hill. He popped over the hill doing 65 and traffic was stopped. He plowed into another semi and it killed him. For days before the accident you could see numerous skid marks from other vehicles that had come over the hill and slammed on their brakes to avoid hitting stopped traffic.
This is just so heartbreaking for all involved. the couple has to live with it for the rest of their lives and a family is grieving for the loss of a father and son.
Well yes it's bad but..............Just read some of the posts in that link.
RV driving in USA is messed up. From what I understand all you need is the money to buy one. There is no special license or test to prove your ability. If you will notice the majority of the time, if you look up when beside one of these monsters, you will notice what I call the "white knuckle effect". The next time check it out you will see what I mean.
We were there, you could see just fine. Traffic was moderate and moving without issue. It was very easy for us to spot that there was a problem and move over. I'm sorry they are hurting but I didn't even notice the sign and had time to move over without incident
I just wonder if this is a case where it's again lack of knowledge and experience to operate the large "Air-Brake" monster down the road.
Looking at that video it looks quite clear too be easily prevented. Looks like driving too fast for the road condition and not paying attention. How high he is sitting in that motorhome you can see quite clearly for a long distance ahead that there is a problem without needing to be notified by signs. He should have been slowing down way in advance before ever getting that close to the scene. I'm sure there would be some interesting information come out in the end of a thorough investigation. Most don't have a clue if they even have properly adjusted brakes.................Just get in and giver. Even wonder if the trailer had any brakes. Anyway most I've seen is the people piloting these large coaches lack any previous experience, do not require any special endorsed license or training, and drive them like they're in their BMW...........And they feel they have the right to do it. Even some people just pulling a tag or 5th wheel don't even have a clue on safe operation and definitely shouldn't be on the roadways endangering others.
Lucky he didn't mow over many other innocent bystanders. The U.S. has to clamp down on this and have mandantory license endorsements required for all that operate heavy weight vehicles equipped with air brakes. Throughout every State.....................No compromises. I'm not be rude or judgmental either........It's just a fact.
Sorry for the officers family.
TheNewhalls said
06:48 AM May 15, 2014
I don't know who was at fault since I wan't there, but it's not fair to hand pick responses. Here are some others.
"You can't move over when people in the other lanes won't allow anyone to enter. Remember that the next time you see merging traffic."
"That stretch of interstate is a mess! It's hard to even tell where the lanes are, no shoulder, uneven lanes, and curves."
"If the sign said there was only one lane blocked when in fact it was two, and on a blind curve at that, how can anyone fault the driver of the RV? He thought his lane WAS clear, not blocked. Clearly not his fault. Whoever put the sign up, it's their fault."
"Unless you were there you don't know what happened!!! I have come across the exact same scenario. With I'm proper lane closure signs on the freeway and even at 15 mph, you can seriously injure someone (hell, school zones are 20). They were driving an RV!!! You people want to blame someone blame the idiot that set up the signs incorrectly on the freeway!!"
This is certainly a tragic case for all involved. This is surely an accident, however I also have questions about whether or not it was avoidable. Having been involved with the RV Safety & Education Foundation the last few years, we understand how little safety knowledge exists among the general RVing public.
I hate to speculate since I was not in the motorhome driver's position, but I do know that an RV driver's visibility is typically better than most and we should all allow plenty of room for emergency stopping. In this case, I also have questions about whether the trailer being towed by the motorhome had auxiliary brakes. And my guess, from looking at the motorhome and the trailer, is that the motorhome may have exceeded it's Gross Combined Weight Rating and possibly its rear Gross Axle Weight Rating as well. If that was the case, that may have had no effect regarding the results of the accident, but it certainly would make stopping more difficult especially in an emergency.
I wouldn't be at all surprised, after investigation, if the motorhome driver is charged. There will likely be an insurance claim at a minimum and perhaps a lawsuit. The insurance company involved may deny a claim and not provide a legal defense IF it is determined the motorhome was overloaded. Not only will the RVing couple have to live with the death of the officer for the rest of their lives, they may also find themselves in legal battles and perhaps a situation that financially bankrupts them.
Also, let's not forget that the reason that the traffic situation requiring the services of the officer existed in the first place was because: "The entrance ramp to the I-65 northbound lanes had become blocked by a large overturned trailer being pulled by a pickup truck." Nashville.gov Press Release
Was the pick-up overloaded or not properly equipped? We'll probably never hear about that.
Those of us that are RVers can certainly take a few lessons from this tragedy. Remain alert, keep speed down, allow lots of distance for emergency stopping, expect and be prepared for the unexpected, know how to engage brakes properly in an emergency, have auxiliary brakes on anything being towed, know your RV weights and combined weights, drive even slower and allow even more distance to stop if overloaded.
We can't prevent what others do on the road, but we can certainly be educated about what we do and be responsible RV drivers that decrease the odds of us being involved in such tragic events.
TRAILERKING said
07:56 AM May 15, 2014
Well said Howard........That's exactly what I was getting at. Just watch the video at the :41 second mark and you can see the visibility isn't that bad especially when up high in a coach. The curve is not so blind especially when up higher in the coach. If paying attention one can see far ahead into the curve of to the right. Just think of all the cars and semi's that went buzzing by without a collision. That kind of tells you something. This is surely an accident, however I also have questions about whether or not it was avoidable. Having been involved with the RV Safety & Education Foundation the last few years, we understand how little safety knowledge exists among the general RVing public.
Just as Howard put it above, and I'll stand firm on my statement, "How very little safety knowledge exists among the general RVing public". "lack of knowledge with Air-Brakes, handling of the heavy weight, just plain and simple.......Training, endorsed licenses.
The Bear II said
12:29 PM May 15, 2014
I read this post first thing this morning and then had to go out on a field visit to a site on a nearby mountain (hill really). There is a narrow two lane road leading to the site. The road has some pretty tight blind curves. There are two ways to get to the site, I went up one way and started down the other way. About halfway down, I came around a blind curve and traffic was dead stopped due to construction. The only warning was a "road construction ahead" sign about 100 feet before the blind curve. Luckily I had slowed down mostly due to the tight curve but I think the crash story was still fresh so that I was cautious.
A little further down the hill just around another blind curve traffic was stopped again.... At both stops the "flagman ahead" signage was placed after the curve. But due to the amount of traffic on the road the cars were backed up almost into the curve.
The signage really needed to be better placed.
kb0zke said
07:12 PM May 20, 2014
Many years ago I worked for the Nebraska Department of Roads and Irrigation (aka Dept. of Ruts and Irritation). There were several copies of a book floating around the office that were consulted by nearly everyone there on a regular basis. That book was The Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices. In that Manual one could find all sorts of good information about how large a sign should be, how far before an intersection, hazard, etc. Those distances depended not only on the posted speed limit but also traffic volume and sight distance. Obviously an accident scene is much different than a construction zone, but the premise is the same - drivers need adequate warning about what is ahead.
The other side of that is that drivers need to drive in such a manner that they can safely stop in the clear space ahead of them. That may actually require slowing down on hilly or curvy roads. Yes, letting one's speed drop to 25 mph as you crest a hill on a two-lane highway may not make the driver behind you very happy, but an accident just over the crest will probably irritate that driver even more.
cherylbrv said
07:33 PM May 20, 2014
kb0zke wrote:
Yes, letting one's speed drop to 25 mph as you crest a hill on a two-lane highway may not make the driver behind you very happy, but an accident just over the crest will probably irritate that driver even more.
That is definitely one habit I am going to need to learn to change when I start driving my rv. I get very anxious when people start tailgating me because I'm going too slow, so if I can't change lanes, I speed up to make them happy. I'll need to take a truck driver attitude and let them be irritated or pass me. Mostly I plan to stay in the slow lane anyway.
Lucky Mike said
07:50 PM May 20, 2014
tailgators are not a bad thing......there behind you , if they were in a hurry they would be in front of you......same place your attention should always be....
manycats said
09:46 PM May 20, 2014
When I get a tailgater I go slower and slower until he/she/it gets the message. If I'm driving just a car or truck and the tailgater is close enough to be dangerous, I lightly step on the brake and step on the gas at the same time. I don't lose speed so the idjit wont rearend me but it's a wake up call to back off me.
TheNewhalls said
05:18 AM May 21, 2014
This is really off topic and deserves its own thread. I don't understand the reasoning behind angering a tailgater (especially in this world of road rage). If you're on a multi Lane highway just move over and let them go. It's not personal they just want to go faster.
-- Edited by TheNewhalls on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 05:32:05 AM
BiggarView said
05:38 AM May 21, 2014
I agree Gene... as to tailgators...
Lucky Mike wrote:
tailgators are not a bad thing......there behind you , if they were in a hurry they would be in front of you......same place your attention should always be...
True Mike. Operating several tons of machinery on the road is not a place to play games with other operators both larger and small than you. The mere mention of the term "tailgator" seems to invoke irrational behavior in too many drivers. Concentrate on your vehicle, the space around it and the road ahead as you say, let those with the bad driving habits go by as soon as it is safe for you to do so, if they risk getting by in an unsafe manner accomodate them if for no other reason than to protect yourself, your passengers and your rig. They may not appreciate the fact that you may have just saved their life or even care, but at least for that moment they are properly focussed on the road, at least around you. Don't let others bad habits dictate the same behaviour in you.
-- Edited by GENECOP on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 05:40:42 AM
Wildrose Acres said
06:38 PM May 22, 2014
Just last Friday our daughter was the front car in a tailgating accident where a driver hit the truck behind her which then hit her car. She was injured; thankfully not seriously. I was once stopped because of trying to avoid a serious tailgater. This "lady" was right on my bumper even though I wasn't going too slowly. I pulled over to let her around me which made a off-duty officer suspect me of reckless driving. (I did not get a ticket.) I then researched tailgating.
Tailgating is the number one cause of accidents. The tailgaters that really annoy me are the ones that can easily pass me on a lightly traveled four-lane highway, yet stay behind me as I go slower and slower and slower. One was too distracted to notice that we were 20 mph under the speed limit, and no one else was on the road!
I feel so bad for the couple involved in this and my sympathies go out to the officers family. I have seen this time and again. They put the constructions signs way to close to the construction, so that traffic is already upon it or the back-up before they realize it is there or they have signs out for days on end with NO construction that all the regular drivers who pass through the area get apathetic to the signs. We had a UPS semi-driver killed here several years ago, because they were doing construction and there were no signs before a blind hill. He popped over the hill doing 65 and traffic was stopped. He plowed into another semi and it killed him. For days before the accident you could see numerous skid marks from other vehicles that had come over the hill and slammed on their brakes to avoid hitting stopped traffic.
This is just so heartbreaking for all involved. the couple has to live with it for the rest of their lives and a family is grieving for the loss of a father and son.
http://www.wsmv.com/story/25508183/rv-driver-says-one-change-could-have-prevented-officers-death
Well yes it's bad but..............Just read some of the posts in that link.
I just wonder if this is a case where it's again lack of knowledge and experience to operate the large "Air-Brake" monster down the road.
Looking at that video it looks quite clear too be easily prevented. Looks like driving too fast for the road condition and not paying attention. How high he is sitting in that motorhome you can see quite clearly for a long distance ahead that there is a problem without needing to be notified by signs. He should have been slowing down way in advance before ever getting that close to the scene. I'm sure there would be some interesting information come out in the end of a thorough investigation. Most don't have a clue if they even have properly adjusted brakes.................Just get in and giver. Even wonder if the trailer had any brakes. Anyway most I've seen is the people piloting these large coaches lack any previous experience, do not require any special endorsed license or training, and drive them like they're in their BMW...........And they feel they have the right to do it. Even some people just pulling a tag or 5th wheel don't even have a clue on safe operation and definitely shouldn't be on the roadways endangering others.
Lucky he didn't mow over many other innocent bystanders. The U.S. has to clamp down on this and have mandantory license endorsements required for all that operate heavy weight vehicles equipped with air brakes. Throughout every State.....................No compromises. I'm not be rude or judgmental either........It's just a fact.
Sorry for the officers family.
I don't know who was at fault since I wan't there, but it's not fair to hand pick responses. Here are some others.
"You can't move over when people in the other lanes won't allow anyone to enter. Remember that the next time you see merging traffic."
"That stretch of interstate is a mess! It's hard to even tell where the lanes are, no shoulder, uneven lanes, and curves."
"If the sign said there was only one lane blocked when in fact it was two, and on a blind curve at that, how can anyone fault the driver of the RV? He thought his lane WAS clear, not blocked. Clearly not his fault. Whoever put the sign up, it's their fault."
"Unless you were there you don't know what happened!!! I have come across the exact same scenario. With I'm proper lane closure signs on the freeway and even at 15 mph, you can seriously injure someone (hell, school zones are 20). They were driving an RV!!! You people want to blame someone blame the idiot that set up the signs incorrectly on the freeway!!"
poor signage warnings
blocked emergency lanes
personnel in travel lanes
driver inattention.....
poor visibility
unfortunately again it cost a life......
This is certainly a tragic case for all involved. This is surely an accident, however I also have questions about whether or not it was avoidable. Having been involved with the RV Safety & Education Foundation the last few years, we understand how little safety knowledge exists among the general RVing public.
I hate to speculate since I was not in the motorhome driver's position, but I do know that an RV driver's visibility is typically better than most and we should all allow plenty of room for emergency stopping. In this case, I also have questions about whether the trailer being towed by the motorhome had auxiliary brakes. And my guess, from looking at the motorhome and the trailer, is that the motorhome may have exceeded it's Gross Combined Weight Rating and possibly its rear Gross Axle Weight Rating as well. If that was the case, that may have had no effect regarding the results of the accident, but it certainly would make stopping more difficult especially in an emergency.
I wouldn't be at all surprised, after investigation, if the motorhome driver is charged. There will likely be an insurance claim at a minimum and perhaps a lawsuit. The insurance company involved may deny a claim and not provide a legal defense IF it is determined the motorhome was overloaded. Not only will the RVing couple have to live with the death of the officer for the rest of their lives, they may also find themselves in legal battles and perhaps a situation that financially bankrupts them.
Also, let's not forget that the reason that the traffic situation requiring the services of the officer existed in the first place was because: "The entrance ramp to the I-65 northbound lanes had become blocked by a large overturned trailer being pulled by a pickup truck." Nashville.gov Press Release
Was the pick-up overloaded or not properly equipped? We'll probably never hear about that.
Those of us that are RVers can certainly take a few lessons from this tragedy. Remain alert, keep speed down, allow lots of distance for emergency stopping, expect and be prepared for the unexpected, know how to engage brakes properly in an emergency, have auxiliary brakes on anything being towed, know your RV weights and combined weights, drive even slower and allow even more distance to stop if overloaded.
We can't prevent what others do on the road, but we can certainly be educated about what we do and be responsible RV drivers that decrease the odds of us being involved in such tragic events.
Well said Howard........That's exactly what I was getting at. Just watch the video at the :41 second mark and you can see the visibility isn't that bad especially when up high in a coach. The curve is not so blind especially when up higher in the coach. If paying attention one can see far ahead into the curve of to the right. Just think of all the cars and semi's that went buzzing by without a collision. That kind of tells you something.
Just as Howard put it above, and I'll stand firm on my statement, "How very little safety knowledge exists among the general RVing public". "lack of knowledge with Air-Brakes, handling of the heavy weight, just plain and simple.......Training, endorsed licenses.
A little further down the hill just around another blind curve traffic was stopped again.... At both stops the "flagman ahead" signage was placed after the curve. But due to the amount of traffic on the road the cars were backed up almost into the curve.
The signage really needed to be better placed.
The other side of that is that drivers need to drive in such a manner that they can safely stop in the clear space ahead of them. That may actually require slowing down on hilly or curvy roads. Yes, letting one's speed drop to 25 mph as you crest a hill on a two-lane highway may not make the driver behind you very happy, but an accident just over the crest will probably irritate that driver even more.
That is definitely one habit I am going to need to learn to change when I start driving my rv. I get very anxious when people start tailgating me because I'm going too slow, so if I can't change lanes, I speed up to make them happy. I'll need to take a truck driver attitude and let them be irritated or pass me. Mostly I plan to stay in the slow lane anyway.
tailgators are not a bad thing......there behind you , if they were in a hurry they would be in front of you......same place your attention should always be....
This is really off topic and deserves its own thread. I don't understand the reasoning behind angering a tailgater (especially in this world of road rage). If you're on a multi Lane highway just move over and let them go. It's not personal they just want to go faster.
-- Edited by TheNewhalls on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 05:32:05 AM
I agree Gene... as to tailgators...
True Mike. Operating several tons of machinery on the road is not a place to play games with other operators both larger and small than you. The mere mention of the term "tailgator" seems to invoke irrational behavior in too many drivers. Concentrate on your vehicle, the space around it and the road ahead as you say, let those with the bad driving habits go by as soon as it is safe for you to do so, if they risk getting by in an unsafe manner accomodate them if for no other reason than to protect yourself, your passengers and your rig. They may not appreciate the fact that you may have just saved their life or even care, but at least for that moment they are properly focussed on the road, at least around you. Don't let others bad habits dictate the same behaviour in you.
Go placidly among the noise and haste....
[video=http://www.wsmv.com/story/25508183/rv-driver-says-one-change-could-have-prevented-officers-death]
Intersting Interview...
-- Edited by GENECOP on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 05:40:42 AM
Tailgating is the number one cause of accidents. The tailgaters that really annoy me are the ones that can easily pass me on a lightly traveled four-lane highway, yet stay behind me as I go slower and slower and slower. One was too distracted to notice that we were 20 mph under the speed limit, and no one else was on the road!