As part of the FT plan, I have been getting some medical tests that I have been putting off for you while I still have the good insurance. One of those tests led to a minor surgery...it only took one hour but the bill came back at $6K. I am mentioning this because the insurance company negotiated the cost down to $1800 and I was stunned by the difference in what was charged and what the insurance company negotiated. I talked to my mom who is a nurse and according to her hospitals over charge knowing that they ill be negotiated down to the medicare rate because they want over time for their medicare rates to be raised. They can't charge private insurers more than medicare so it's basically a big game to charge way more and then take much less. The scary thing is if I didn't have insurance at all I would have been stuck with a $6K bill. Thankfully I have been very healthy and the money in my HSA account before all this was close to $8,000 so I was feeling really pretty positive about healthcare...not so much when those bills started rolling in. Howard isn't kidding when he says healthcare could be your number 1 budget decision when making the FT lifestyle decision.
Anyways, wanted to pass this along. I could have skipped the surgery but they found some abnormal cells in an exam and needed to check for cancer. Everything is fine, and I came back with no issues, but I didn't feel it was optional. It's really made me think about the importance of insurance not only for a catastrophic event but also to negotiate with the healthcare providers so you don't totally get screwed on the price of things.
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
06:12 AM Mar 25, 2014
You wouldn't necessarily be stuck with the $6k bill, but its up to you to go negotiate the final bill. Much like Howard and Linda did. If your able and willing to pay up front and in cash the final amount due, it decreases usually by half or more.
BiggarView said
06:18 AM Mar 25, 2014
Glad to hear that any fears of something more serious have been put to rest.
I agree, healthcare should not be ignored in any budget plan. One should try to plan for the worst case to the best extent possible within that budget. We are still a few years away from FT but we are doing two things to prepare, one is getting all medical and dental things done while we are still covered under our employers plans and the other is building up HSA or other medical emergency funds. It's better to have it and not use it rather than need it and not have it.
Even if the insurance company "negotiated the price" down to $1800, there may still be room to reduce the portion that you are left to pay. Everything is always negotiable. Worth a shot.
Lucky Mike said
06:46 AM Mar 25, 2014
Medications are just as bad!.......my prescriptions for a 2 drug treatment for 6 months came to 83 k ...that was after discounts.!!!!!!
the first day after leaving the drug store I was in tears wondering whether I was going to survive it !!!!
thank the spirits I was reimbursed in the end, it put a great hardship on everyone involved and I had to sell the coach at that time to do it!!!
TheNewhalls said
06:52 AM Mar 25, 2014
A couple of years ago I called a hospital to get the cost for a test I needed. I was told $1400. Confused, I asked if that's my cost after the insurance pays their part? She said well if you have insurance ( and she checked my insurer ) it will be $2400 and your copayment is 20% of the $2400. The cost almost doubled because I had insurance.
BiggarView said
07:35 AM Mar 25, 2014
TheNewhalls wrote:
A couple of years ago I called a hospital to get the cost for a test I needed. I was told $1400. Confused, I asked if that's my cost after the insurance pays their part? She said well if you have insurance ( and she checked my insurer ) it will be $2400 and your copayment is 20% of the $2400. The cost almost doubled because I had insurance.
Just spit-balling here, but something is wrong with the system when the hospital would charge you $1400, or alternately charge the health insurance company $1920 and you $480 (total $2400). Oh yeah, either your employer or you also pays premiums to be covered for this nonsense so the insurance company or the hospital doesn't seem to really care what price they pay or charge respectively, because ultimately you will pay them for it now(copay) and later(premiums). That stinks!!! There has to be a better idea.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 07:37:07 AM
TheNewhalls said
07:45 AM Mar 25, 2014
biggaRView wrote:
Just spit-balling here, but something is wrong with the system when the hospital would charge you $1400, or alternately charge the health insurance company $1920 and you $480 (total $2400). Oh yeah, either your employer or you also pays premiums to be covered for this nonsense so the insurance company or the hospital doesn't seem to really care what price they pay or charge respectively, because ultimately you will pay them for it now(copay) and later(premiums). That stinks!!! There has to be a better idea.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 07:37:07 AM
Agree. I don't remember my exact cost, but I know the insurance didn't pay $2400 or even $1900 it was much less, therefore my co-pay was much less. As has been suggested or mentioned previously the game is to charge more, then the insurance company will only pay an already negotiated lower price and the medical community gets close to what they originally wanted.
BiggarView said
07:56 AM Mar 25, 2014
TheNewhalls wrote:
biggaRView wrote:
.... There has to be a better idea.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 07:37:07 AM
Agree. ...... the game is to charge more, then the insurance company will only pay an already negotiated lower price and the medical community gets close to what they originally wanted.
Game is the operative(Pun not intended) word. And it's rigged in their favor.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 07:59:25 AM
Russ Ranger said
08:15 AM Mar 25, 2014
Last year, just 2 months before we were to begin our RV adventure, I had open heart surgery. That meant a six figure medical bill. Fortunately we have very good insurance and I had a quick recovery, so we did not miss our retirement or departure date.
Without the insurance our plans for the future would have suffered a major setback.
Each month when I see the $1,130.21 premium come out of our account I am grateful that we can and do have that insurance. It's a big hit each month but still much smaller than paying off a six figure medical bill.
Barbaraok said
08:19 AM Mar 25, 2014
Hospitals report the difference between what the insurance company (or you if you negotiate with them) pays and what they bill as a LOSS on their financial statements. Which means that they always appear on paper to be on the brink of disaster even as they are opening the fancy new wing to treat some group of aliments.
Barb
RonaldNC said
08:25 AM Mar 25, 2014
Over the last couple of years (since having a high-deductable plan), I negotiate everything in healthcare. When I need a procedure, I start down a series of questions:
1. Simply tell them that I am paying out of my own pocket... is there anything anything they can do about the price. This usually gets me from 10% to 40% off.
2. I ask them if there are times that I could schedule the procedure that would cost me less. Surprisingly, this sometimes gets me a bit more off.
3. I ask if I can get a discount for paying in advance (or now). I almost always get a pretty good (10% to 15%) discount for doing this. I just bought new hearing aides... got 10% off for simply paying in advance.
4. I ask if I can get another 2% to 3% for paying in cash or check. This sometimes works.
I had a colonoscopy done last year and my price went from $2,200 to $900 by invoking each of these.
Hope these ideas help... are there other techniques that I haven't tried?
Ron
-- Edited by RonaldNC on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 08:35:05 AM
BiggarView said
08:28 AM Mar 25, 2014
Russ, glad to hear you had a quick recovery. I'm not going to dismiss your arrangement for medical coverage as BarbaraOK would say "everybody has their own situation" and you have to be comfortable with that. You are, so much the better.
Still doesn't take away from the fact that there has to be a better way for the system to work. Your premiums may well be lower. FWIW
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 08:34:16 AM
MarkS said
01:38 PM Mar 25, 2014
I had a heart attack and spent two days in ICU? The bill was $63K. The insurance paid $8K and I paid nothing. Based on the bills and payments I have surmised that the insurance companies typically pay 10 to 15 cents on the dollar. You can negotiate too.
Terry and Jo said
05:33 PM Mar 25, 2014
While not really itemized for us, we've seen two different occasions with family members having to be hospitalized. While insurance was available in one case, it wasn't in the other. In both cases, the "balance" was taken care of by the hospital using a generally unknown fund. It seems that there are a number of philanthropic individuals out there that donate to hospitals so that "needy" families can have financial assistance.
Now, having said that, I kind of doubt that our experience is repeated in all hospitals.
Terry
BiggarView said
06:03 PM Mar 25, 2014
Terry, it's true that it is generally unknown about such funds but I can assure you it's more widespread than one might imagine. I, personally, know of several cases in different parts of the country and completely unrelated to the others where hospitals have done this sort of "pro bono work" and funded it out said funds, broken ankle, heart bypass surgery, burn victims to name a few. So yeah, something else to consider when it comes time for figuring out ways to cut expenses though each case suceeds on its merits and the policies in place at a particular hospital.
WestWardHo said
07:59 PM Mar 25, 2014
My hairdresser in a small town in AZ (low wages there as in some other states) was a young, single uninsured woman who developed Mersa (she thinks from the gym). She went thru lots of medications (out of pocket) but it was spreading. Her doctor (out of pocket) advised surgery. She ended cutting it out herself with a razor blade. Later she was married and pregnant. Cost to have a baby in the local hospital = $10,000. Drive 2 hours to Phoenix and the cost was $2500. I won't get political but she's way better off now as is her son with a "pre-existing" minor kidney condition.
Please, you healthier folks out there thinking about going on the road and NOT worrying about health insurance because you're "so healthy", please make it #1! I used to think, not me, but sooner or later it's all of us.
Sherry who is so grateful to have exceptional insurance and who is so grateful to have had excellent insurance when raising 4 children
TheNewhalls said
06:46 AM Mar 26, 2014
WestWardHo wrote:
I used to think, not me, but sooner or later it's all of us.
Amen!
Lucky Mike said
07:40 AM Mar 26, 2014
WestWardHo wrote:
Please, you healthier folks out there thinking about going on the road and NOT worrying about health insurance because you're "so healthy", please make it #1! I used to think, not me, but sooner or later it's all of us.
I tried this.......then I tried cheap insurance with high deductibles feeling I was immortal.....the outcome was a near disaster!!!
its funny....We insure our homes....we insure our cars....we will buy burial insurance...life insurance , yet we will not comprehend how important good health insurance is
BiggarView said
08:40 AM Mar 26, 2014
The bottom line for health insurance is simple.... If a major health event(any major health event) could put one in the poor house then one should have health insurance. The more one can survive a "worst case" financial hit the less one will need. Only that person/family/couple can decide the right amount for their situation and needs. WestWardHo, Mike and others are giving prudent and wise advice.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Wednesday 26th of March 2014 08:40:35 AM
-- Edited by biggaRView on Wednesday 26th of March 2014 08:45:40 AM
As part of the FT plan, I have been getting some medical tests that I have been putting off for you while I still have the good insurance. One of those tests led to a minor surgery...it only took one hour but the bill came back at $6K. I am mentioning this because the insurance company negotiated the cost down to $1800 and I was stunned by the difference in what was charged and what the insurance company negotiated. I talked to my mom who is a nurse and according to her hospitals over charge knowing that they ill be negotiated down to the medicare rate because they want over time for their medicare rates to be raised. They can't charge private insurers more than medicare so it's basically a big game to charge way more and then take much less. The scary thing is if I didn't have insurance at all I would have been stuck with a $6K bill. Thankfully I have been very healthy and the money in my HSA account before all this was close to $8,000 so I was feeling really pretty positive about healthcare...not so much when those bills started rolling in. Howard isn't kidding when he says healthcare could be your number 1 budget decision when making the FT lifestyle decision.
Anyways, wanted to pass this along. I could have skipped the surgery but they found some abnormal cells in an exam and needed to check for cancer. Everything is fine, and I came back with no issues, but I didn't feel it was optional. It's really made me think about the importance of insurance not only for a catastrophic event but also to negotiate with the healthcare providers so you don't totally get screwed on the price of things.
Glad to hear that any fears of something more serious have been put to rest.
I agree, healthcare should not be ignored in any budget plan. One should try to plan for the worst case to the best extent possible within that budget. We are still a few years away from FT but we are doing two things to prepare, one is getting all medical and dental things done while we are still covered under our employers plans and the other is building up HSA or other medical emergency funds. It's better to have it and not use it rather than need it and not have it.
Even if the insurance company "negotiated the price" down to $1800, there may still be room to reduce the portion that you are left to pay. Everything is always negotiable. Worth a shot.
the first day after leaving the drug store I was in tears wondering whether I was going to survive it !!!!
thank the spirits I was reimbursed in the end, it put a great hardship on everyone involved and I had to sell the coach at that time to do it!!!
Just spit-balling here, but something is wrong with the system when the hospital would charge you $1400, or alternately charge the health insurance company $1920 and you $480 (total $2400). Oh yeah, either your employer or you also pays premiums to be covered for this nonsense so the insurance company or the hospital doesn't seem to really care what price they pay or charge respectively, because ultimately you will pay them for it now(copay) and later(premiums). That stinks!!! There has to be a better idea.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 07:37:07 AM
Agree. I don't remember my exact cost, but I know the insurance didn't pay $2400 or even $1900 it was much less, therefore my co-pay was much less. As has been suggested or mentioned previously the game is to charge more, then the insurance company will only pay an already negotiated lower price and the medical community gets close to what they originally wanted.
Game is the operative(Pun not intended) word. And it's rigged in their favor.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 07:59:25 AM
Without the insurance our plans for the future would have suffered a major setback.
Each month when I see the $1,130.21 premium come out of our account I am grateful that we can and do have that insurance. It's a big hit each month but still much smaller than paying off a six figure medical bill.
Barb
Over the last couple of years (since having a high-deductable plan), I negotiate everything in healthcare. When I need a procedure, I start down a series of questions:
1. Simply tell them that I am paying out of my own pocket... is there anything anything they can do about the price. This usually gets me from 10% to 40% off.
2. I ask them if there are times that I could schedule the procedure that would cost me less. Surprisingly, this sometimes gets me a bit more off.
3. I ask if I can get a discount for paying in advance (or now). I almost always get a pretty good (10% to 15%) discount for doing this. I just bought new hearing aides... got 10% off for simply paying in advance.
4. I ask if I can get another 2% to 3% for paying in cash or check. This sometimes works.
I had a colonoscopy done last year and my price went from $2,200 to $900 by invoking each of these.
Hope these ideas help... are there other techniques that I haven't tried?
Ron
-- Edited by RonaldNC on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 08:35:05 AM
Russ, glad to hear you had a quick recovery.
I'm not going to dismiss your arrangement for medical coverage as BarbaraOK would say "everybody has their own situation" and you have to be comfortable with that. You are, so much the better.
Still doesn't take away from the fact that there has to be a better way for the system to work. Your premiums may well be lower. FWIW
-- Edited by biggaRView on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 08:34:16 AM
While not really itemized for us, we've seen two different occasions with family members having to be hospitalized. While insurance was available in one case, it wasn't in the other. In both cases, the "balance" was taken care of by the hospital using a generally unknown fund. It seems that there are a number of philanthropic individuals out there that donate to hospitals so that "needy" families can have financial assistance.
Now, having said that, I kind of doubt that our experience is repeated in all hospitals.
Terry
Terry, it's true that it is generally unknown about such funds but I can assure you it's more widespread than one might imagine. I, personally, know of several cases in different parts of the country and completely unrelated to the others where hospitals have done this sort of "pro bono work" and funded it out said funds, broken ankle, heart bypass surgery, burn victims to name a few. So yeah, something else to consider when it comes time for figuring out ways to cut expenses though each case suceeds on its merits and the policies in place at a particular hospital.
Please, you healthier folks out there thinking about going on the road and NOT worrying about health insurance because you're "so healthy", please make it #1! I used to think, not me, but sooner or later it's all of us.
Sherry who is so grateful to have exceptional insurance and who is so grateful to have had excellent insurance when raising 4 children
Amen!
I tried this.......then I tried cheap insurance with high deductibles feeling I was immortal.....the outcome was a near disaster!!!
its funny....We insure our homes....we insure our cars....we will buy burial insurance...life insurance , yet we will not comprehend how important good health insurance is
The bottom line for health insurance is simple.... If a major health event(any major health event) could put one in the poor house then one should have health insurance. The more one can survive a "worst case" financial hit the less one will need. Only that person/family/couple can decide the right amount for their situation and needs. WestWardHo, Mike and others are giving prudent and wise advice.
-- Edited by biggaRView on Wednesday 26th of March 2014 08:40:35 AM
-- Edited by biggaRView on Wednesday 26th of March 2014 08:45:40 AM