My wife and I have pretty much determined that we will retire in June of 2017, sell the house and go full time with our daughter who has Down Syndrome. We have had two little hybrids over the last seven years and are looking to take the huge step of moving from a Forest River Solara that can be easily towed with our Honda Pilot to a fifth wheel. The problem I am seeing is that very few floor plans contemplate full timing with an extra person. Do the hideaway beds in most slides have a good enough mattress for prolonged use? Will the custom builders such as New Horizon modify a plan to add an accessible loft bed over a couch or desk? (Sort of like some of the dorm room arrangements you see).
We are planning to retire as I turn 59 and a half and travel for quite some time. I am pretty much sold on the idea that a fifth wheel makes a lot more sense than a Class A in our situation but I have a ton of time to plan and plot this major life step.
bjoyce said
10:35 PM Mar 22, 2014
Travel Supreme made some 5th wheels that had two bedrooms. You might find one used.
PaulandMB said
08:10 AM Mar 23, 2014
Thanks. I have been reading what others think and looking at plans. Heartland has a very nice layout in its Big Country line 37 feet with a walk-up living room that appears to have 2 hideaway beds and enough separation to meet our daughter's needs if the pull out sofa's have reasonable mattresses.. It seems that Heartland is well thought of on this forum. We are planning to go to the Hershey RV show in the fall. Is Heartland typically there?
NurseJudy said
08:10 AM Mar 23, 2014
I don't know how large you want to go, but some of the manufacturers make very nice bunkhouse units that have 2 bedrooms. Heartland has some very nice ones in their Silverado & Elkridge lines. We saw some at Hershey and they were very nice. Good luck!
PaulandMB said
08:26 AM Mar 23, 2014
I have driven smaller cars for most of my life. Went to a Toyota Highlander when we bought our first trailer. A little baby R-Pod that was cute as a button that we went to after years of tenting. We found that 4 of us (my son was in school at the time) could handle the close quarters of the hybrid tent trailer for up to 2 weeks. Last year we traded up to a Solara which has two tent pop-outs and gives our daughter her own bed.
37 feet, which is the size of the Big Country seems huge to me, but I will absolutely look at the lines you have recommended and take a lot of time at Hershey this year, Syracuse next winter and Hershey the year thereafter.
I likely will be posting frequently for feedback on a lot of issues since we are pretty compulsive planners and slow to make decisions.
Thanks for the feedback
nomorsno said
09:33 AM Mar 23, 2014
If you are going to a show perhaps check out a toy hauler with the bed in the garage area. Could be a separate room for your daughter without the garage function. Many have tables and dinette areas that fold out and washer hookups that could be plumbed as a little sink. With a little work it could be a little separate suite with its own door and windows......even a patio with rails if you drop the back door. Just a thought instead the bunk models.
PaulandMB said
11:20 AM Mar 23, 2014
Interesting idea. I am getting lots to think about. Thanks
Terry and Jo said
02:36 PM Mar 23, 2014
Paul,
Just as a thought to go along with your question about supplemental beds. While I can't speak for all RV's, I'm doubtful that there are very many that provide a comfortable bed in a "pull-out" on a couch. While we don't envision many times that more that the two of us will be sleeping in our Mobile Suites, we found the couch and its bed to be uncomfortable. So, we modified and then bought an air mattress that can be used. However, in your case, that would involve setting up and taking the bed down every day. Not what most folks want to do.
As for a rig, choose a trailer first before buying a truck. Once you've chosen a trailer, then you will have an idea of how big of a truck will be needed to safely handle that size and weight of trailer. Otherwise, if one buys a truck first, one might be limiting themselves on how big of a trailer they could buy.
Terry
PaulandMB said
03:06 PM Mar 23, 2014
Thanks Terry.
We have looked at Hearland's toy haulers and bunkhouses at their home page and at some dealers. I expect to spend a deal of time with them at Hershey including talking about whether it would be possible to switch out bunks for one of two hideaway beds. The beauty of starting this process three years is out is that one can sketch a plan, get feedback, revise and repeat.... I understand about camper first. With our little hybrids we have always had to compromise to accommodate our vehicle. Anyway in our plan is beginning to have a framework:
1 Bunkhouse or Toy Trailer with a real bed for Emily. The toy trailer would be nice for bicycles and kayaks when travelling but I suspect that we will be able to manage without one if needed. Heartland seems to be well thought of and within our price range.
2. Truck second. I have a bias towards Ford if I get an American truck. Hoping that a F-350 dual/diesel can comfortably pull the rigs we have in mind.
3. Airlift rig
4 South Dakota domicile and purchase point. Looks to me like this would make the most financial sense and the excellent medical insurance links I found here led me to a plan in South Dakota which includes all my doctors in NY in their PPO. We have family in NY, colleagues, (I worked for my company for over 20 years and do want to pop in once a year), and some of our favorite places in the world are in the Finger Lakes and Adirondacks so coming home once a year for a physical and visits will be nice.
Appreciate all the feedback folks are providing and if anything in this outline seems unrealistic, feel free to tell me I am off base.
This is a roug
kb0zke said
06:15 PM Mar 23, 2014
Welcome, PaulandMB. When Jo Ann and I first started talking about going full-time we were open to travel trailers, 5'ers, and motor homes. Your choice may well be limited to what you can find a second bedroom in, rather than considering how you will be traveling. Most people make the decision on the class of RV based on how they will travel (moving fairly often or staying in one place for a couple of months or more) and whether they need a truck for work or other purposes, not just to tow a trailer.
Heartland is a good company with decent products. They do stand behind their trailers, but only the Landmark, Bighorn, and Big Country are (or were, when we were looking) rated for full-time use. Those three lines are all 5'ers, and are listed in descending price order. Since they are all built on the same line, the same floor plans are generally available on all three. Heartland does have limited capability to customize a coach, so it would be worth your time to at least talk to the company.
The conventional wisdom is to buy the coach and then the truck. I suspect that few people do that in real life. As you are shopping for the coach you can also start looking for the truck. Get the gross weight of each coach you are considering (available on the manufacturer's site) and use the heaviest one on your list. Pin weight is generally around 20-25% of the trailer weight, so if the heaviest coach you are looking at has a GW of 20,000 pounds you will need a truck that can handle 5,000 pounds on the hitch and have a gross combined weight rating of 20,000 pounds PLUS the gross weight of the truck.
The Heartland Owners Forum is an open one, so you can join it and ask questions there even before you buy a trailer. There are line-specific forums there, too, so you can ask more targeted questions.
Bob and Lindy said
08:53 PM Mar 23, 2014
Welcome to the forum. I know several manufacturers have bunkhouse type 5ers. One I saw recently is the Redwood brand and they call it a 'bonus room'. I be!ieve it can be configured several ways such as a large pantry or small garage or bunkhouse. Here is thier website and they are a new brand. www.redwood-rv.com. There are others also. Good luck hunting and shopping.
Safe travels.
-- Edited by Bob and Lindy on Sunday 23rd of March 2014 08:55:03 PM
-- Edited by Bob and Lindy on Sunday 23rd of March 2014 08:56:25 PM
PaulandMB said
05:18 AM Mar 24, 2014
Thanks all.
I am curious about what it means to be rated for full time use. I took a look at specs on the Big Country line and the biggest difference I could see between full time rigs and the bunkhouses was the amount of insulation in the floors and ceilings. Is there more to it than that and if not and if we spend winters in the deep South how important a consideration is full time rating?
Budget is a big consideration after we sell our house but we can stretch it a bit to make sure we get a rig that will stand up to prolonged use and a safe and comfortable tow.
Neil and Connie said
03:07 PM Mar 24, 2014
PaulandMB wrote:
Will the custom builders such as New Horizon modify a plan to add an accessible loft bed over a couch or desk?
New Horizons will do just about whatever you want…they don't have a model with a second bedroom but if you've got an idea for where to add another loft type bed and it doesn't take up space that is already filled with something else I'm pretty sure they would do it. Looking at our NH rig which is 39 feet with the entertainment center and kitchen on the street side slide and the recliners and dinette on the curb side the only feasible place would to be put the loft bed in the rear but that would kill the windows. Maybe if you went with the rear entertainment system and the loft bed over the top of that and had the TV low instead of on a lift it would work.
I have seen a couple of bunkhouse type 5vers on the web but never paid much attention to them, maybe a google for bunk house fifth wheel? Alternatively you could get a toy hauler and have the garage area made into a combination living area and loft bed arrangement.
I'm sure what you need is out there…just a matter of finding it.
SD is a good call for residency; the only stickler is that you actually have to spend one night there to meet the rules before getting your drivers license. Everything else can be done by email/phone/internet or by your mailing service…we use Americas Mailbox in Box Elder on the west side of the state but there's another one in Sioux Falls that also gets pretty good press and probably another dozen that I don't know about.
Most car dealers and RV dealers will take care of registering the vehicles for you in another state…you'll have to pay a 3% fee to SD to register it the first time (sort of like sales tax) but after that it's pretty cheap…about 400 a year for our car, truck, and rig.
You also asked about full time rating…some manufacturers don't warrant their rigs for full time use but you're right, a lot of what the full time rating means is better insulation. NH warranties theirs for full time and having seen both both their production line and Deluxe Suite's lines the NH has better insulation…but then it's more expensive than the Deluxe Suites are. Better insulation is good even if you spend winters in FL…we go to Fort Myers which is pretty far south and had maybe a half dozen or so nights that were below 45. Our neighbors were all running their furnaces and burning lots of propane (probably a 30 pound tank every week or so)…we just used our electric fireplace until we went to bed and then turned it off until morning…the coldest it got inside was 63 but the fireplace gets it toasty warm in 10 minutes or so…we didn't turn our furnace on all winter. Our first fall in the rig we didn't leave NH until almost October as we were watching the leaves turn…we really appreciated the extra insulation up there as it was pretty cool at night.
-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Monday 24th of March 2014 03:19:37 PM
-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Monday 24th of March 2014 03:24:58 PM
Neil and Connie said
03:13 PM Mar 24, 2014
PaulandMB wrote:
I have driven smaller cars for most of my life.
37 feet, which is the size of the Big Country seems huge to me
I would get 39 or 40 if you're going to live with 3 people in it…37 will be a little tight on space for full-time use.
My wife and I never drove anything large before we got the F450 and 39' NH either…our cars since being married were a VW Bug, Toyota Corolla, Ford Probe, VW Jetta, Saturn Ion and Mazda 6 (which we kept for our daily driver on the road. Driving the big truck and rig isn't really difficult at all and having driven a 32 foot class C for a month test spin of the RV life the 450/fifth wheel is actually easier to drive than the smaller class C. You'll get used to the larger size pretty quickly…we've been full time for almost 2 years now, departing from the DC area in July 12 and by September I felt perfectly comfortable driving in almost all places…although I still don't think much of narrow 2 lane bridges…of which there are a couple right where the Mississippi and Ohio rivers come together in western KY…meeting an 18 wheeler on the narrow bridge we both slowed down from the 40 speed limit and crept past each other at maybe 5 mph tops. The cars backed up a little behind us but they got over it.
PaulandMB said
03:53 PM Mar 24, 2014
I have visited the New Horizon site and gawked at their fivers. They might be a bit more than we can afford new though. Heartland was well spoken of here, as is Excel. I also noticed at least one poster had a Grand Design fiver. I looked at their website and Maribeth fell in love with their bunkhouse which was pretty well designed without sacrificing too much in the living room. Took a quick look at their pricing and it is well within budget. Naturally I am concerned that it may be too good to be true. Do they have a good reputation. The model that caught our attention is http://www.granddesignrv.com/reflection-floorplans.php
Still a long time to the Hershey show which is the biggest in our region. So far I want to see Heartland, Excel, Montana, and Grand Design there. The nice thing with being three years is that we can plan compulsively. When the time comes we are likely to sell the house and shop in South Dakota. At 8% sales tax and large registration fees for large vehicles, the premium for shopping conveniently is just too high.
My daughter has been agitating to go to Mt. Rushmore for years and I have fond memories of Custer State Park and Deadwood from a business trip several years ago so making SD's residency requirement is not a problem.
Neil and Connie said
04:08 PM Mar 24, 2014
NHs are expensive…but then you get more with them. Fortunately our purchase had plenty of budget as we were selling our no mortgage house in the DC area that we bought in 1988 before the big housing price boom…so although we did care about price it wasn't the top priority, that went to livability, quality, and features.
NH takes a lot of their slightly lower end Summit models in trade for owners that are upgrading to the more upscale…you might check with them and see what they have either on the lot or coming up in near term trades…the price will likely be significantly lower than a new one.
There are two basic differences between the Majestic and Summit…first is width, the Majestic is 102 and the Summit only 96. Second is that the Summit comes with fewer of the really nice options as standard…but even a standard Summit is equipped pretty well.
kb0zke said
05:30 PM Mar 24, 2014
PaulandMB, there is no industry standard for rating an RV for full-time. Heartland chooses to call their top three lines full-time rated, but about all that really means is that the warranty is still good if you live in it full-time. Their other lines are not full-time rated, and the warranty specifically says that living in them full-time voids the warranty.
Generally, if a manufacturer says a particular line is full-time or four-season rated it means that it has a bit more insulation and probably higher quality furnishings. There can be MAJOR differences in quality, though, from one manufacturer to another. At this point start looking at the quality of construction (frame, fit and finish, drawers, etc.) and don't worry much about price. It won't take you long to find the lowest quality that you are comfortable with. If that brand, new, is too expensive, look for a used one.
A couple of years ago some friends of ours bought a brand-new DP for full-time use. After less than a year in it they traded it even-up for a 10-year-old Foretravel because they could see that the quality in what they originally bought just wasn't there for full-time use. Yes, they took a big financial hit, but it probably saved them some money in the long run. Still, they would have been better off buying a higher quality coach, used, to start with.
Terry and Jo said
07:49 PM Mar 24, 2014
With regards to Neil's comment about "Deluxe Suites," I'm wondering if he meant "DRV Suites." DRV Suites is a brand with some lines that have 3 1/4" walls instead of the standard 2" walls. DRV Suites was begun by the owners of Sunnybrook because a lot of folks were looking for full-time rated RV's. The DRV Suites originally were called Doubletree Suites, but they changed the name so as to not irritate the Doubletree hotel chain.
The DRV Suites line of Elite Suites and Mobile Suites and Mobile Suites Estates all have a triple box 15" frame and the Tradition line has a 12" I-beam frame. The DRV's are heavy, but not as heavy as the New Horizons brands. While a lot of folks with DRV Suites models are pulling with F350/3500 series trucks, I think the New Horizons would need at least a F450/4500 series truck.
DRV Suites will also try to accommodate those that want to customize a bit, but unless you went to a 43 or 44 foot trailer, you might not get the extra bed/bunk room.
If you would consider a used DRV Suites, check out Rolling Retreats in Elk City, Oklahoma. They generally have some good, clean used models, although not likely to be any with the extra room.
Terry
jayc said
04:32 AM Mar 25, 2014
Paul, I can tell you that Heartland will be at the Hershey show as well as a group from our Owners Club, so you'll be able to meet and talk to other actual owners.
marianne57 said
06:40 PM Mar 25, 2014
PaulandMB wrote:
I also noticed at least one poster had a Grand Design fiver. I looked at their website and Maribeth fell in love with their bunkhouse which was pretty well designed without sacrificing too much in the living room. Took a quick look at their pricing and it is well within budget. Naturally I am concerned that it may be too good to be true. Do they have a good reputation. The model that caught our attention is http://www.granddesignrv.com/reflection-floorplans.php
Hi Paul and MB, I couldn't help but notice your question regarding Grand Design. My husband and I have been looking extensively for the last 2 years because we hope to go on the road in a few years as well. The thing that caught my eye about your post was your location in mentioning the Hershey RV show. We live in Carlisle, PA and attended it last year. In researching, we looked at so many and I pulled up so much info from the internet that it is overwhelming. After finding the grand design website and comparing we were extremely impressed but more than that, I have joined their forum and their support for any issues from the CEO on down is simply amazing! They are truly a company wanting to get it right and give the customer the best product for the price. We have decided in the fall to purchase their Solitude 305 RE. There is a dealer close to Hamburg, PA who I know will be at the Hershey show, but also one in MD and Beckley VA. Really....please check them out. We are so excited to get ours, and I believe they have some of the best on the market now. Take care and best of luck in your search!
PaulandMB said
07:11 PM Mar 25, 2014
Thanks for the feedback Marianne. I sent a note to Grand Design to find out whether the trailers are warranted for full time. As it happens the dealer where we bought our camping hybrid carries their product line so we will likely be seeing some of the trailers before Hershey. We store our current trailer there and usually spend time gawking when we drop off and pick up. Reading the specs, it looks like they build their equipment for full time. Very good insulation in the floor and ceilings at any rate so we will see.
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
05:58 AM Mar 26, 2014
As long as you have your South Dakota drivers license, which shows residency, you don't have to shop just in SD for your RV. Any decent dealer can register the RV in SD and send the correct taxes in without you being there.
PaulandMB said
10:42 AM Mar 26, 2014
We are extremely grateful for the great feedback being provided on this thread.
We will look in to the possibility of working with the dealer that we bought our two hybrid towables from. They are pretty good and have been pleasant to work with over the years. I am not sure how sales tax would work even if we register in SD. NY is not shy about taxing and residency requirements and sales tax is 8% on top of registration fees. As we move further along we will look more closely at this. With three years to go, it is too early to really delve in to the tax rules. A lot can change by 2017.
RVKevi said
07:30 PM Mar 26, 2014
In SD the sales tax on vehicles/RVs is currently 3%, I think.
PaulandMB said
10:19 PM Mar 29, 2014
So we are putting together a list of companies whose products we want to see in Hershey.
Ruling out the pricier Excels and New Horizons we are looking to see:
Heartland
Grand Design
Keystone
Dutchmen
Montana
Any obvious contenders we are overlooking? We will obviously do a good deal of looking around but these companies all have floorplans that look like they would work for us and sizes that don't scare us when we think about state and national parks.
BiggarView said
10:54 PM Mar 29, 2014
Out of those you listed we have Heartland Landmark and Bighorn models on our radar as well as the Grand Design. If you are determined to buy new, that looks like a fair group of middle-upper middle of the road 5ers. I've learned on here that you might want to take a look at those higher end units in gently used rigs. Same price range, higher quality. Well taken care of units will have had most if not all the "bugs" worked out too. Not saying you have to go that route but you should keep an open mind. FWIW
Since we aren't going FT for a few more years, our current short list will likely change somewhat over time. If we see a current model we like, we make notes and then when the time comes we will re-evaluate those units for inclusion or exclusion compared to what will be available then. We want to keep as many options on the table as possible.
We'd like to make a pilgrimage to the Hershey show, though its a hike from Chicago. Fortunately for us, a lot of the manufacturers are fairly close that, a day trip or two to Indiana is not out of the question.
I'm sure some with more experience will chime in on rig size vs national/state park issue and possibly offer some suggestions to ease any anxiety you might have. Good luck with your research.
PaulandMB said
06:04 AM Mar 30, 2014
A gently used high quality model would be fine. If we can find one small enough to meet our concerns regarding Emily's sleeping arrangements. We are focusing on new because of the potential to make some custom changes to accomodate her.
My wife and I have pretty much determined that we will retire in June of 2017, sell the house and go full time with our daughter who has Down Syndrome. We have had two little hybrids over the last seven years and are looking to take the huge step of moving from a Forest River Solara that can be easily towed with our Honda Pilot to a fifth wheel. The problem I am seeing is that very few floor plans contemplate full timing with an extra person. Do the hideaway beds in most slides have a good enough mattress for prolonged use? Will the custom builders such as New Horizon modify a plan to add an accessible loft bed over a couch or desk? (Sort of like some of the dorm room arrangements you see).
We are planning to retire as I turn 59 and a half and travel for quite some time. I am pretty much sold on the idea that a fifth wheel makes a lot more sense than a Class A in our situation but I have a ton of time to plan and plot this major life step.
Thanks. I have been reading what others think and looking at plans. Heartland has a very nice layout in its Big Country line 37 feet with a walk-up living room that appears to have 2 hideaway beds and enough separation to meet our daughter's needs if the pull out sofa's have reasonable mattresses.. It seems that Heartland is well thought of on this forum. We are planning to go to the Hershey RV show in the fall. Is Heartland typically there?
I have driven smaller cars for most of my life. Went to a Toyota Highlander when we bought our first trailer. A little baby R-Pod that was cute as a button that we went to after years of tenting. We found that 4 of us (my son was in school at the time) could handle the close quarters of the hybrid tent trailer for up to 2 weeks. Last year we traded up to a Solara which has two tent pop-outs and gives our daughter her own bed.
37 feet, which is the size of the Big Country seems huge to me, but I will absolutely look at the lines you have recommended and take a lot of time at Hershey this year, Syracuse next winter and Hershey the year thereafter.
I likely will be posting frequently for feedback on a lot of issues since we are pretty compulsive planners and slow to make decisions.
Thanks for the feedback
If you are going to a show perhaps check out a toy hauler with the bed in the garage area. Could be a separate room for your daughter without the garage function. Many have tables and dinette areas that fold out and washer hookups that could be plumbed as a little sink. With a little work it could be a little separate suite with its own door and windows......even a patio with rails if you drop the back door. Just a thought instead the bunk models.
Interesting idea. I am getting lots to think about. Thanks
Paul,
Just as a thought to go along with your question about supplemental beds. While I can't speak for all RV's, I'm doubtful that there are very many that provide a comfortable bed in a "pull-out" on a couch. While we don't envision many times that more that the two of us will be sleeping in our Mobile Suites, we found the couch and its bed to be uncomfortable. So, we modified and then bought an air mattress that can be used. However, in your case, that would involve setting up and taking the bed down every day. Not what most folks want to do.
As for a rig, choose a trailer first before buying a truck. Once you've chosen a trailer, then you will have an idea of how big of a truck will be needed to safely handle that size and weight of trailer. Otherwise, if one buys a truck first, one might be limiting themselves on how big of a trailer they could buy.
Terry
Thanks Terry.
We have looked at Hearland's toy haulers and bunkhouses at their home page and at some dealers. I expect to spend a deal of time with them at Hershey including talking about whether it would be possible to switch out bunks for one of two hideaway beds. The beauty of starting this process three years is out is that one can sketch a plan, get feedback, revise and repeat.... I understand about camper first. With our little hybrids we have always had to compromise to accommodate our vehicle. Anyway in our plan is beginning to have a framework:
1 Bunkhouse or Toy Trailer with a real bed for Emily. The toy trailer would be nice for bicycles and kayaks when travelling but I suspect that we will be able to manage without one if needed. Heartland seems to be well thought of and within our price range.
2. Truck second. I have a bias towards Ford if I get an American truck. Hoping that a F-350 dual/diesel can comfortably pull the rigs we have in mind.
3. Airlift rig
4 South Dakota domicile and purchase point. Looks to me like this would make the most financial sense and the excellent medical insurance links I found here led me to a plan in South Dakota which includes all my doctors in NY in their PPO. We have family in NY, colleagues, (I worked for my company for over 20 years and do want to pop in once a year), and some of our favorite places in the world are in the Finger Lakes and Adirondacks so coming home once a year for a physical and visits will be nice.
Appreciate all the feedback folks are providing and if anything in this outline seems unrealistic, feel free to tell me I am off base.
This is a roug
Heartland is a good company with decent products. They do stand behind their trailers, but only the Landmark, Bighorn, and Big Country are (or were, when we were looking) rated for full-time use. Those three lines are all 5'ers, and are listed in descending price order. Since they are all built on the same line, the same floor plans are generally available on all three. Heartland does have limited capability to customize a coach, so it would be worth your time to at least talk to the company.
The conventional wisdom is to buy the coach and then the truck. I suspect that few people do that in real life. As you are shopping for the coach you can also start looking for the truck. Get the gross weight of each coach you are considering (available on the manufacturer's site) and use the heaviest one on your list. Pin weight is generally around 20-25% of the trailer weight, so if the heaviest coach you are looking at has a GW of 20,000 pounds you will need a truck that can handle 5,000 pounds on the hitch and have a gross combined weight rating of 20,000 pounds PLUS the gross weight of the truck.
The Heartland Owners Forum is an open one, so you can join it and ask questions there even before you buy a trailer. There are line-specific forums there, too, so you can ask more targeted questions.
Welcome to the forum. I know several manufacturers have bunkhouse type 5ers. One I saw recently is the Redwood brand and they call it a 'bonus room'. I be!ieve it can be configured several ways such as a large pantry or small garage or bunkhouse. Here is thier website and they are a new brand. www.redwood-rv.com. There are others also. Good luck hunting and shopping.
Safe travels.
-- Edited by Bob and Lindy on Sunday 23rd of March 2014 08:55:03 PM
-- Edited by Bob and Lindy on Sunday 23rd of March 2014 08:56:25 PM
Thanks all.
I am curious about what it means to be rated for full time use. I took a look at specs on the Big Country line and the biggest difference I could see between full time rigs and the bunkhouses was the amount of insulation in the floors and ceilings. Is there more to it than that and if not and if we spend winters in the deep South how important a consideration is full time rating?
Budget is a big consideration after we sell our house but we can stretch it a bit to make sure we get a rig that will stand up to prolonged use and a safe and comfortable tow.
New Horizons will do just about whatever you want…they don't have a model with a second bedroom but if you've got an idea for where to add another loft type bed and it doesn't take up space that is already filled with something else I'm pretty sure they would do it. Looking at our NH rig which is 39 feet with the entertainment center and kitchen on the street side slide and the recliners and dinette on the curb side the only feasible place would to be put the loft bed in the rear but that would kill the windows. Maybe if you went with the rear entertainment system and the loft bed over the top of that and had the TV low instead of on a lift it would work.
I have seen a couple of bunkhouse type 5vers on the web but never paid much attention to them, maybe a google for bunk house fifth wheel? Alternatively you could get a toy hauler and have the garage area made into a combination living area and loft bed arrangement.
I'm sure what you need is out there…just a matter of finding it.
SD is a good call for residency; the only stickler is that you actually have to spend one night there to meet the rules before getting your drivers license. Everything else can be done by email/phone/internet or by your mailing service…we use Americas Mailbox in Box Elder on the west side of the state but there's another one in Sioux Falls that also gets pretty good press and probably another dozen that I don't know about.
Most car dealers and RV dealers will take care of registering the vehicles for you in another state…you'll have to pay a 3% fee to SD to register it the first time (sort of like sales tax) but after that it's pretty cheap…about 400 a year for our car, truck, and rig.
You also asked about full time rating…some manufacturers don't warrant their rigs for full time use but you're right, a lot of what the full time rating means is better insulation. NH warranties theirs for full time and having seen both both their production line and Deluxe Suite's lines the NH has better insulation…but then it's more expensive than the Deluxe Suites are. Better insulation is good even if you spend winters in FL…we go to Fort Myers which is pretty far south and had maybe a half dozen or so nights that were below 45. Our neighbors were all running their furnaces and burning lots of propane (probably a 30 pound tank every week or so)…we just used our electric fireplace until we went to bed and then turned it off until morning…the coldest it got inside was 63 but the fireplace gets it toasty warm in 10 minutes or so…we didn't turn our furnace on all winter. Our first fall in the rig we didn't leave NH until almost October as we were watching the leaves turn…we really appreciated the extra insulation up there as it was pretty cool at night.
-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Monday 24th of March 2014 03:19:37 PM
-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Monday 24th of March 2014 03:24:58 PM
I would get 39 or 40 if you're going to live with 3 people in it…37 will be a little tight on space for full-time use.
My wife and I never drove anything large before we got the F450 and 39' NH either…our cars since being married were a VW Bug, Toyota Corolla, Ford Probe, VW Jetta, Saturn Ion and Mazda 6 (which we kept for our daily driver on the road. Driving the big truck and rig isn't really difficult at all and having driven a 32 foot class C for a month test spin of the RV life the 450/fifth wheel is actually easier to drive than the smaller class C. You'll get used to the larger size pretty quickly…we've been full time for almost 2 years now, departing from the DC area in July 12 and by September I felt perfectly comfortable driving in almost all places…although I still don't think much of narrow 2 lane bridges…of which there are a couple right where the Mississippi and Ohio rivers come together in western KY…meeting an 18 wheeler on the narrow bridge we both slowed down from the 40 speed limit and crept past each other at maybe 5 mph tops. The cars backed up a little behind us but they got over it.
I have visited the New Horizon site and gawked at their fivers. They might be a bit more than we can afford new though. Heartland was well spoken of here, as is Excel. I also noticed at least one poster had a Grand Design fiver. I looked at their website and Maribeth fell in love with their bunkhouse which was pretty well designed without sacrificing too much in the living room. Took a quick look at their pricing and it is well within budget. Naturally I am concerned that it may be too good to be true. Do they have a good reputation. The model that caught our attention is http://www.granddesignrv.com/reflection-floorplans.php
Still a long time to the Hershey show which is the biggest in our region. So far I want to see Heartland, Excel, Montana, and Grand Design there. The nice thing with being three years is that we can plan compulsively. When the time comes we are likely to sell the house and shop in South Dakota. At 8% sales tax and large registration fees for large vehicles, the premium for shopping conveniently is just too high.
My daughter has been agitating to go to Mt. Rushmore for years and I have fond memories of Custer State Park and Deadwood from a business trip several years ago so making SD's residency requirement is not a problem.
NHs are expensive…but then you get more with them. Fortunately our purchase had plenty of budget as we were selling our no mortgage house in the DC area that we bought in 1988 before the big housing price boom…so although we did care about price it wasn't the top priority, that went to livability, quality, and features.
NH takes a lot of their slightly lower end Summit models in trade for owners that are upgrading to the more upscale…you might check with them and see what they have either on the lot or coming up in near term trades…the price will likely be significantly lower than a new one.
There are two basic differences between the Majestic and Summit…first is width, the Majestic is 102 and the Summit only 96. Second is that the Summit comes with fewer of the really nice options as standard…but even a standard Summit is equipped pretty well.
Generally, if a manufacturer says a particular line is full-time or four-season rated it means that it has a bit more insulation and probably higher quality furnishings. There can be MAJOR differences in quality, though, from one manufacturer to another. At this point start looking at the quality of construction (frame, fit and finish, drawers, etc.) and don't worry much about price. It won't take you long to find the lowest quality that you are comfortable with. If that brand, new, is too expensive, look for a used one.
A couple of years ago some friends of ours bought a brand-new DP for full-time use. After less than a year in it they traded it even-up for a 10-year-old Foretravel because they could see that the quality in what they originally bought just wasn't there for full-time use. Yes, they took a big financial hit, but it probably saved them some money in the long run. Still, they would have been better off buying a higher quality coach, used, to start with.
With regards to Neil's comment about "Deluxe Suites," I'm wondering if he meant "DRV Suites." DRV Suites is a brand with some lines that have 3 1/4" walls instead of the standard 2" walls. DRV Suites was begun by the owners of Sunnybrook because a lot of folks were looking for full-time rated RV's. The DRV Suites originally were called Doubletree Suites, but they changed the name so as to not irritate the Doubletree hotel chain.
The DRV Suites line of Elite Suites and Mobile Suites and Mobile Suites Estates all have a triple box 15" frame and the Tradition line has a 12" I-beam frame. The DRV's are heavy, but not as heavy as the New Horizons brands. While a lot of folks with DRV Suites models are pulling with F350/3500 series trucks, I think the New Horizons would need at least a F450/4500 series truck.
DRV Suites will also try to accommodate those that want to customize a bit, but unless you went to a 43 or 44 foot trailer, you might not get the extra bed/bunk room.
If you would consider a used DRV Suites, check out Rolling Retreats in Elk City, Oklahoma. They generally have some good, clean used models, although not likely to be any with the extra room.
Terry
Thanks for the feedback Marianne. I sent a note to Grand Design to find out whether the trailers are warranted for full time. As it happens the dealer where we bought our camping hybrid carries their product line so we will likely be seeing some of the trailers before Hershey. We store our current trailer there and usually spend time gawking when we drop off and pick up. Reading the specs, it looks like they build their equipment for full time. Very good insulation in the floor and ceilings at any rate so we will see.
We are extremely grateful for the great feedback being provided on this thread.
We will look in to the possibility of working with the dealer that we bought our two hybrid towables from. They are pretty good and have been pleasant to work with over the years. I am not sure how sales tax would work even if we register in SD. NY is not shy about taxing and residency requirements and sales tax is 8% on top of registration fees. As we move further along we will look more closely at this. With three years to go, it is too early to really delve in to the tax rules. A lot can change by 2017.
So we are putting together a list of companies whose products we want to see in Hershey.
Ruling out the pricier Excels and New Horizons we are looking to see:
Heartland
Grand Design
Keystone
Dutchmen
Montana
Any obvious contenders we are overlooking? We will obviously do a good deal of looking around but these companies all have floorplans that look like they would work for us and sizes that don't scare us when we think about state and national parks.
Out of those you listed we have Heartland Landmark and Bighorn models on our radar as well as the Grand Design. If you are determined to buy new, that looks like a fair group of middle-upper middle of the road 5ers. I've learned on here that you might want to take a look at those higher end units in gently used rigs. Same price range, higher quality. Well taken care of units will have had most if not all the "bugs" worked out too. Not saying you have to go that route but you should keep an open mind. FWIW
Since we aren't going FT for a few more years, our current short list will likely change somewhat over time. If we see a current model we like, we make notes and then when the time comes we will re-evaluate those units for inclusion or exclusion compared to what will be available then. We want to keep as many options on the table as possible.
We'd like to make a pilgrimage to the Hershey show, though its a hike from Chicago. Fortunately for us, a lot of the manufacturers are fairly close that, a day trip or two to Indiana is not out of the question.
I'm sure some with more experience will chime in on rig size vs national/state park issue and possibly offer some suggestions to ease any anxiety you might have. Good luck with your research.
A gently used high quality model would be fine. If we can find one small enough to meet our concerns regarding Emily's sleeping arrangements. We are focusing on new because of the potential to make some custom changes to accomodate her.