We've had numerous issues with our Dometic 1320 4 door fridge. Our trailer is a 2010 unit that we purchased just over a year ago. The cooling unit had already been replaced once on this fridge, since then we've replaced the circuit board, the cooling unit again, added fans, changed out the thermistor, etc., etc. The last modifications included a "wind diverter" to keep the flame from blowing out as we went down the road and has worked well since September, until this weekend.
Driving through a thunderstorm between Dallas and Oklahoma our fridge once again quit. At first it would run on just propane and seemed to have a "gremlin" when connected to electric power (door lock would just keep automatically triggering). We took all our food to our daughter's house and between their deep freeze and relatively empty, large residential fridge managed to keep any food from spoiling. Phew, we've twice thrown out large quantities or had to consume or gift food in a very short timeframe, so that was a huge blessing.
This morning Dale once again tried the fridge and it just "magically" decided to work again. So, his thought it that driving through the thunderstorm we might have somehow gotten way more moisture within the system than recommended so maybe that caused this latest issue.
We're just about at the end of our rope and considering replacement. However, we boondock about 15-20% of the time between enroute layovers, plan to spend some time each winter in Quartzsite and taking advantage of free overnight, non-hookup parking at the art shows when it's available.
We spent part of today researching replacement of RV fridges and aren't totally sold on the idea of a residential fridge. Terry provided a TON of reading material in a PM (Thanks Terry), that we've read and considered. We do plan to replace our 2 batteries with 4 Lifeline AGM batteries and an inverter with solar panels this May as we make a stop at AM Solar in Eugene OR.
Will the battery upgrade, solar, inverter be enough to power a residential fridge? We think so for the art shows and enroute overnight boondocking stops, but if we were boondocking for 1-3 weeks at a time? Not so sure about that. We do have Yamaha 3000 series generator that we could run as needed.
However, we're still somewhat reluctant to change out to a residential fridge, most of the campgrounds we've stayed at over the past 8 months have been 30 AMP hookups. We prefer state / federal / county / City parks to commercial RV parks so we're still not sure a residential fridge is the right solution for us given our location preferences.
So, we're seeking advice / experience from those of you who are much more knowledgeable than us. We assume we are going to need to replace our very problematic fridge sometime in the next 3-6 months, but we're not sure if there are any options besides a residential fridge that will allow us to continue to enjoy 30 AMP hook ups and/or boondocking. We would like to wait to replace the fridge until after we're done with the solar/battery/ inverter upgrade.
Besides replacing our current RV fridge with a residential fridge, has anyone else found a reasonable alternative?
Airplane Guy said
09:28 PM Mar 16, 2014
My fridge is a full size residential and it only draws 3 amps
bjoyce said
10:57 PM Mar 16, 2014
Downsides for residential fridges I know of:
1) They will pull more amps when they do a defrost cycle. Some Samsung fridges have a switch to turn it off, but many fridges do those defrost cycles when they feel like it. Our Whirlpool uses 2200 watts on defrost. When not running a defrost cycle, they run more like 2 to 3 amps.
2) 4 batteries might not be enough, most manufacturers put in 6 when they install residential fridges on order. (I am assuming golf cart batteries or group 31 12volt batteries).
3) Most manufacturers install 2800watt or larger inverter/chargers for fridges and many fridges need pure sinewave.
4) Finding one that is a good fit can sometimes be difficult. It was for us.
We are happy with our 24cuft Whirlpool side-by-side but plan to upgrade our battery bank and inverter/charger because of the defrost cycles.
R12 said
05:41 AM Mar 17, 2014
I've had a residential refrigerator in our Mobile Suites for a little over a year now. It is a Whirlpool side by side installed at the factory by DRV. We stay at a park in RI for three months each summer that only has 30 amp service and there has not been any problem with the fridge at all. The coach has two batteries and a 1000 watt inverter which is plenty for the times we are not plugged in, usually only when traveling. The only wish we have is that if we had waited six months DRV is now installing residential fridges as standard and they are the double door refrigerators with the freezer drawer below.
lindy said
05:58 AM Mar 17, 2014
Now that I have one in our MH I would never have anything else. As R12 says he gets by with 2 batteries and a 1000 watt inverter. With our unit, Winnebago when installing a residential fridge goes from 4 12v AGM batteries to 6 AGM's, and from a 2000 watt to a 2800 watt inverter. But with the low amp draw of modern fridges the 2800 watt is way over kill unless you're planning on running microwave etc too. Where we camp a lot is only 30 amp service and the only issue is if running A/C and microwave at same time, residential fridge does not come into play on a 30 amp service.
Airplane Guy said
06:53 AM Mar 17, 2014
I did make clip to ensure the double doors don't open during travel, it hasn't happened to me but I heard of someone else say it did. It would be a distraction in traffic.
Lucky Mike said
07:10 AM Mar 17, 2014
I would have someone go back into the fridge and seal all the connections and inspect the wiring......alltho it seems major right now....you have a bad connection or a short....if it is only happening when water is introduced it is most likely a bare wire or pinched on the harness..(you have already changed the board so Im going to rule it out)
Howard said
08:09 AM Mar 17, 2014
Dale & Ruth, If you are leaning toward repairing your RV unit, I'd highly recommend making the trip to National RV Refrigeration in Shipshewana, Indiana. That's where we had our Dometic RV refrigerator repaired and it works better than ever.
We struggled with just replacing it with a residential fridge but, like you, we boondock quite a bit. Our solar panels and four batteries may be fine for the west, but in the east where there are more cloudy days and more trees, we just didn't want to have to worry about it. We also struggled with finding one that wouldn't take much in the way of modification for the spot that's available.
Because our current fridge is working so well now, we're glad we didn't make the change. We still like the option of running on propane. However, if it goes out again, it'll be hard not to make the decision to go residential, but we'd likely add batteries and solar panels.
I have an email in to some friends that boondock way more than we do, and they have a residential fridge and love it. Hopefully, he'll give us some insight on their set-up, the pros, cons, etc.
Bill and Linda said
08:41 AM Mar 17, 2014
Dale and Ruth
X2on Howard’s suggestion.Leo really knows his stuff and that’s our direction if our RV fridge ever needs service.We were there taking the tour with H & L last year.
Should you decide to go with the residential the battery upgrade will make a huge difference in your capacity, probably double it, and they require zero attention.
I’ve done the math and IMO, 4 – 6 volt AGM GPL 6-CT batteries seem to be the best choice for space vs. capacity vs. weight, if I were to install a residential fridge. They give you 600AH (300AH useable) in a relatively small foot print.They are taller.So check that dimension.As you know these do not have to be vented so they can be placed anywhere in any physical orientation. They do not have to be placed in the DRV's battery compartment as such.(This is what we are putting in our new rig.)
X2 on Bill J’s comment about the pure sine wave inverter.You just don’t want to use modified sign wave inverters these days; too many touchy electronics.
Due to boondocking and staying were 120 volt shore power capacity is sometimes limited, we made an active decision not to install a residential fridge in the new rig.We can always change later.It was a close call but without Jack’s 1,000+ AH battery bank I just didn’t like having to use ½ our battery bank’s usable capacity (noted above) each day just to run the fridge. (Note Howard's comment - more batteries and solar.) Personal decision and IMO it’s a tossup if you travel and don’t boondock much.Sitting in a park most of the time we’d probably go with the residential.But your stated lifestyle, much like ours, would keep me with an RV fridge as we selected for the new rig.
Hope you find the fix.
Bill
bjoyce said
10:06 AM Mar 17, 2014
As Jack has noted and I have measured, a residential fridge uses around 100 amp-hours of battery a day, give or take 20 amp-hours, or about the usable capacity of two normal batteries. My experience with a 12cuft Norcold is it used around 40 amp-hours of battery while running on LP. 6 out 7 days or so, our residential fridge only uses 2 to 3 amps of 120 volt to run, the other day it uses a lot more to do a defrost cycle. I left my meter (much like a Kill-A-Watt, but no longer made) on the fridge for 3 weeks to get those numbers. Defrost cycles only run a few minutes. On metered electric our residential is using much less electricity than the Norcold, about 5 kilo-watt hours a day less.
We do not have the height to use the taller Lifeline 6-CT AGMs, we have 4-CTs and four give us 440 amp-hours, with a usable capacity of 220 amp-hours.
NWescapee said
12:07 PM Mar 17, 2014
Thanks all, you've given us some great suggestions. The research will continue.
01zeosix said
12:36 PM Mar 17, 2014
Lucky Mike wrote:
I would have someone go back into the fridge and seal all the connections and inspect the wiring......alltho it seems major right now....you have a bad connection or a short....if it is only happening when water is introduced it is most likely a bare wire or pinched on the harness..(you have already changed the board so Im going to rule it out)
Lucky Mike is correct - in my opinion. Take the time to rule out the fact that you might have a short or bad connection somewhere. Intermittent failures seems to be the indicator here.
I boondock 90% of the time in my DRV. I still have my Dometic Refer and have not really had any issues with it other than adding a couple of fans and the usual mods. I really cannot compare or recommend a residential fridge unit because I have never had one in a fifth wheel to compare to. However, if the Q or other long-term boondocking is in your future, you may find that you're running your genny a little more often to keep the batteries topped off. May, or may not, be a good trade off. Your decision.
As far as your future solar install is concerned, I mounted four Lifeline GPL-8D 12V. AGM Batteries (510 Amp/Hrs reserve -yup, I said 12 volt) in the center bay where the generators are usually mounted. Worked out great. I built a "cover" for the top of the batteries and have piled a bunch of "necessities" there. The sub-panel is mounted on the ceiling of the storage bay next to the sliding access door on the curb-side.
I put a Magnum MagnaSine Hybrid – inverter/charger in the battery bay where the 2 six volt batteries used to live. In fact, all of the peripherals with the exception of the solar controller fit in that old battery bay. I included a Magnum battery monitoring kit and remote panel.
On the roof over the bedroom (flat there) are four Kyocera KD100-36 Series Modules (140 Watt ea.) connected in series running high voltage to the MPPT 500 controller (which is mounted to the outside wall of the OLD battery compartment -above the new battery bank).
On sunny days the solar tops me to Float Charge by NOON. On cloudy days, I have the generator in reserve. Rarely used. If I have to run it for 4 or 5 hours, that's only ten dollars worth of fuel.
If it was me, I'd spend some money on LED replacements for all those HOT halogens that DRV puts into these units. Best bang for the buck for electrical management and conservation.
Hope this helps some-
Lucky Mike said
01:00 PM Mar 17, 2014
something else you might consider in your choice.....
Most manufactures will not warranty the refrigerator when it is run on an inverter..........
I called 4 major Tech lines today to question this...... all 4 major Mfg. said no as far as covering damages under warranty.
Please note:
I am an authorized servicer for these companies and directed my questions directly to payment/warranty processing...
this means that if it is a factory installation the warranty is only valid while it is being operated on shore power...
major components under warranty have to be shipped back for testing ,and will know immediately the cause.
Bill and Linda said
01:02 PM Mar 17, 2014
01zeosix
A nice installation indeed; but if I may comment:The issue, IMO, going with the GPL-8D battery is not the 12 volt part as such, it is the individual battery weights.The GPL-8 weighs 156 lbs. each and, for me, I can’t lift that much into a compartment by myself. (Nope, you don’t have to do it that often I admit that.) The GPL-6’s weight 90 lbs. per battery and I can handle those in a confined space by myself and have.
For some you might want to keep this in mind when selecting batteries.It’s not only the combined total weight of the battery bank, but the individual weights I was looking at. As these threads may be helpful to others I just point this out as selections are made.“It depends” on each individual situation.
Bill
NWescapee said
06:52 PM Mar 17, 2014
Again, thanks for the info. One of our limitations is the weight of the batteries, we are planning a "purge" before heading to AM Solar in May so we have the weight capacity for the batteries and solar panels. We think the AGM 6-CT will fit in the current compartment, but know that only 2 will fit there, we were hoping the other 2 could be put in the basement and wired in so they would all work together as appropriate.
Anything that weighs more than that is not something we want to consider, Dale has had back and shoulder problems recently and the older we get, the more worrisome that gets to be.
Given what we have experienced thus far, we'll have several nights a year where we are boondocking enroute or at art shows, we hope to spend a little more time in Q next winter,but probably not more than 2 weeks at a time with a break to head back to Tucson / Phoenix or Southern Cal for an art show or two. Q is a good middle location as we're planning the winter art show schedule between AZ and SoCal. We've also found a few campgrounds that we want to revisit where the "dry camping" sites are nicer than the hookup sites plus cheaper, so we're trying to find the right balance.
deminimis said
10:04 AM Apr 18, 2014
Probably not what you are looking for, as I don't think they have a propane version, but they may, but Vitrifrigo fridges are mighty awesome if running on just AC or DC. After repeated failures with other fridges in our former Sportsmobile, I went with Vitrifrigo and never had a problem again. I wish I could absolutely recall if I ever gave the freezer the ice cream test or not (I think so, but can't swear to it). Anyway, it was awesome. Very efficient, quiet and had a service port (something the similar Nevercold version didn't have and would require an expensive compressor replacement unit every time the refrigerant leaked out, which it repeatedly did as we spent a lot of time in Baja, Moab, and the like). Downside is cost (they be, or were, pricey) and I'm pretty sure they don't have a propane option (but best to check). Upside is they are very well built (they are designed for marine environments) and serviceable (although ours never needed service). I'd love to figure out a way to install one of their drawer freezers under our seating area. Regardless, something to look at www.vfamerica.com/eng/catalog.asp
Den-Bev said
02:57 PM Apr 20, 2014
We installed the Samsung 197 the best mod we did feed up with losing food in the summer heat .
-- Edited by Den-Bev on Sunday 20th of April 2014 02:58:10 PM
bjoyce said
03:45 PM Apr 20, 2014
Also look at http://www.sunfrost.com/, high efficiency fridges and freezers built in the USA. They also have sizes that might fit an RV hole better than others available.
Dimensions are really important in an RV. Our fridge is in a hall, so depth with door open was very important. Height was also important because the furnace was below the fridge. Each RV is different.
We've had numerous issues with our Dometic 1320 4 door fridge. Our trailer is a 2010 unit that we purchased just over a year ago. The cooling unit had already been replaced once on this fridge, since then we've replaced the circuit board, the cooling unit again, added fans, changed out the thermistor, etc., etc. The last modifications included a "wind diverter" to keep the flame from blowing out as we went down the road and has worked well since September, until this weekend.
Driving through a thunderstorm between Dallas and Oklahoma our fridge once again quit. At first it would run on just propane and seemed to have a "gremlin" when connected to electric power (door lock would just keep automatically triggering). We took all our food to our daughter's house and between their deep freeze and relatively empty, large residential fridge managed to keep any food from spoiling. Phew, we've twice thrown out large quantities or had to consume or gift food in a very short timeframe, so that was a huge blessing.
This morning Dale once again tried the fridge and it just "magically" decided to work again. So, his thought it that driving through the thunderstorm we might have somehow gotten way more moisture within the system than recommended so maybe that caused this latest issue.
We're just about at the end of our rope and considering replacement. However, we boondock about 15-20% of the time between enroute layovers, plan to spend some time each winter in Quartzsite and taking advantage of free overnight, non-hookup parking at the art shows when it's available.
We spent part of today researching replacement of RV fridges and aren't totally sold on the idea of a residential fridge. Terry provided a TON of reading material in a PM (Thanks Terry), that we've read and considered. We do plan to replace our 2 batteries with 4 Lifeline AGM batteries and an inverter with solar panels this May as we make a stop at AM Solar in Eugene OR.
Will the battery upgrade, solar, inverter be enough to power a residential fridge? We think so for the art shows and enroute overnight boondocking stops, but if we were boondocking for 1-3 weeks at a time? Not so sure about that. We do have Yamaha 3000 series generator that we could run as needed.
However, we're still somewhat reluctant to change out to a residential fridge, most of the campgrounds we've stayed at over the past 8 months have been 30 AMP hookups. We prefer state / federal / county / City parks to commercial RV parks so we're still not sure a residential fridge is the right solution for us given our location preferences.
So, we're seeking advice / experience from those of you who are much more knowledgeable than us. We assume we are going to need to replace our very problematic fridge sometime in the next 3-6 months, but we're not sure if there are any options besides a residential fridge that will allow us to continue to enjoy 30 AMP hook ups and/or boondocking. We would like to wait to replace the fridge until after we're done with the solar/battery/ inverter upgrade.
Besides replacing our current RV fridge with a residential fridge, has anyone else found a reasonable alternative?
My fridge is a full size residential and it only draws 3 amps
1) They will pull more amps when they do a defrost cycle. Some Samsung fridges have a switch to turn it off, but many fridges do those defrost cycles when they feel like it. Our Whirlpool uses 2200 watts on defrost. When not running a defrost cycle, they run more like 2 to 3 amps.
2) 4 batteries might not be enough, most manufacturers put in 6 when they install residential fridges on order. (I am assuming golf cart batteries or group 31 12volt batteries).
3) Most manufacturers install 2800watt or larger inverter/chargers for fridges and many fridges need pure sinewave.
4) Finding one that is a good fit can sometimes be difficult. It was for us.
We are happy with our 24cuft Whirlpool side-by-side but plan to upgrade our battery bank and inverter/charger because of the defrost cycles.
I did make clip to ensure the double doors don't open during travel, it hasn't happened to me but I heard of someone else say it did. It would be a distraction in traffic.
Dale & Ruth, If you are leaning toward repairing your RV unit, I'd highly recommend making the trip to National RV Refrigeration in Shipshewana, Indiana. That's where we had our Dometic RV refrigerator repaired and it works better than ever.
We struggled with just replacing it with a residential fridge but, like you, we boondock quite a bit. Our solar panels and four batteries may be fine for the west, but in the east where there are more cloudy days and more trees, we just didn't want to have to worry about it. We also struggled with finding one that wouldn't take much in the way of modification for the spot that's available.
Because our current fridge is working so well now, we're glad we didn't make the change. We still like the option of running on propane. However, if it goes out again, it'll be hard not to make the decision to go residential, but we'd likely add batteries and solar panels.
I have an email in to some friends that boondock way more than we do, and they have a residential fridge and love it. Hopefully, he'll give us some insight on their set-up, the pros, cons, etc.
Dale and Ruth
X2 on Howard’s suggestion. Leo really knows his stuff and that’s our direction if our RV fridge ever needs service. We were there taking the tour with H & L last year.
Should you decide to go with the residential the battery upgrade will make a huge difference in your capacity, probably double it, and they require zero attention.
I’ve done the math and IMO, 4 – 6 volt AGM GPL 6-CT batteries seem to be the best choice for space vs. capacity vs. weight, if I were to install a residential fridge. They give you 600AH (300AH useable) in a relatively small foot print. They are taller. So check that dimension. As you know these do not have to be vented so they can be placed anywhere in any physical orientation. They do not have to be placed in the DRV's battery compartment as such. (This is what we are putting in our new rig.)
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/rvflyer.php?id=15
X2 on Bill J’s comment about the pure sine wave inverter. You just don’t want to use modified sign wave inverters these days; too many touchy electronics.
Due to boondocking and staying were 120 volt shore power capacity is sometimes limited, we made an active decision not to install a residential fridge in the new rig. We can always change later. It was a close call but without Jack’s 1,000+ AH battery bank I just didn’t like having to use ½ our battery bank’s usable capacity (noted above) each day just to run the fridge. (Note Howard's comment - more batteries and solar.) Personal decision and IMO it’s a tossup if you travel and don’t boondock much. Sitting in a park most of the time we’d probably go with the residential. But your stated lifestyle, much like ours, would keep me with an RV fridge as we selected for the new rig.
Hope you find the fix.
Bill
We do not have the height to use the taller Lifeline 6-CT AGMs, we have 4-CTs and four give us 440 amp-hours, with a usable capacity of 220 amp-hours.
Lucky Mike is correct - in my opinion. Take the time to rule out the fact that you might have a short or bad connection somewhere. Intermittent failures seems to be the indicator here.
I boondock 90% of the time in my DRV. I still have my Dometic Refer and have not really had any issues with it other than adding a couple of fans and the usual mods. I really cannot compare or recommend a residential fridge unit because I have never had one in a fifth wheel to compare to. However, if the Q or other long-term boondocking is in your future, you may find that you're running your genny a little more often to keep the batteries topped off. May, or may not, be a good trade off. Your decision.
As far as your future solar install is concerned, I mounted four Lifeline GPL-8D 12V. AGM Batteries (510 Amp/Hrs reserve -yup, I said 12 volt) in the center bay where the generators are usually mounted. Worked out great. I built a "cover" for the top of the batteries and have piled a bunch of "necessities" there. The sub-panel is mounted on the ceiling of the storage bay next to the sliding access door on the curb-side.
I put a Magnum MagnaSine Hybrid – inverter/charger in the battery bay where the 2 six volt batteries used to live. In fact, all of the peripherals with the exception of the solar controller fit in that old battery bay. I included a Magnum battery monitoring kit and remote panel.
On the roof over the bedroom (flat there) are four Kyocera KD100-36 Series Modules (140 Watt ea.) connected in series running high voltage to the MPPT 500 controller (which is mounted to the outside wall of the OLD battery compartment -above the new battery bank).
On sunny days the solar tops me to Float Charge by NOON. On cloudy days, I have the generator in reserve. Rarely used. If I have to run it for 4 or 5 hours, that's only ten dollars worth of fuel.
If it was me, I'd spend some money on LED replacements for all those HOT halogens that DRV puts into these units. Best bang for the buck for electrical management and conservation.
Hope this helps some-
Most manufactures will not warranty the refrigerator when it is run on an inverter..........
I called 4 major Tech lines today to question this...... all 4 major Mfg. said no as far as covering damages under warranty.
Please note:
I am an authorized servicer for these companies and directed my questions directly to payment/warranty processing...
this means that if it is a factory installation the warranty is only valid while it is being operated on shore power...
major components under warranty have to be shipped back for testing ,and will know immediately the cause.
01zeosix
A nice installation indeed; but if I may comment: The issue, IMO, going with the GPL-8D battery is not the 12 volt part as such, it is the individual battery weights. The GPL-8 weighs 156 lbs. each and, for me, I can’t lift that much into a compartment by myself. (Nope, you don’t have to do it that often I admit that.) The GPL-6’s weight 90 lbs. per battery and I can handle those in a confined space by myself and have.
For some you might want to keep this in mind when selecting batteries. It’s not only the combined total weight of the battery bank, but the individual weights I was looking at. As these threads may be helpful to others I just point this out as selections are made. “It depends” on each individual situation.
Bill
Anything that weighs more than that is not something we want to consider, Dale has had back and shoulder problems recently and the older we get, the more worrisome that gets to be.
Given what we have experienced thus far, we'll have several nights a year where we are boondocking enroute or at art shows, we hope to spend a little more time in Q next winter,but probably not more than 2 weeks at a time with a break to head back to Tucson / Phoenix or Southern Cal for an art show or two. Q is a good middle location as we're planning the winter art show schedule between AZ and SoCal. We've also found a few campgrounds that we want to revisit where the "dry camping" sites are nicer than the hookup sites plus cheaper, so we're trying to find the right balance.
We installed the Samsung 197 the best mod we did feed up with losing food in the summer heat .
-- Edited by Den-Bev on Sunday 20th of April 2014 02:58:10 PM
Also look at http://www.sunfrost.com/, high efficiency fridges and freezers built in the USA. They also have sizes that might fit an RV hole better than others available.
Dimensions are really important in an RV. Our fridge is in a hall, so depth with door open was very important. Height was also important because the furnace was below the fridge. Each RV is different.