I'm getting a 2014 Coachmen Catalina 33ft. tow behind. I want to add solar (stand alone panels not roof mounted) and I am looking at a 450 watt system. It says you need at least a bank of 4 12v batteries. The company I'm getting the RV from says you can only put two 6V batteries in the compartment. I asked about 2 12v and they're saying I would get more amps with 2 6V.
Can you please advise on the 6V vs. 12V regarding amps. And is there another way to have the 4 bank of batteries as in can you carry two with you and hook them up externally or something when you're parked?
-- Edited by Tmalloy21 on Sunday 16th of March 2014 07:53:05 AM
bjoyce said
10:14 AM Mar 16, 2014
The batteries need to be the same and need to be charged and discharged together. Getting all the batteries charged properly is the only way to have the full capacity from your battery bank. Any deviation will not allow you to use them as deeply and their life will be shortened. If you split the bank then the ones always being used would get slightly weaker than the ones not being used as much. If the batteries are different, they will charge a bit differently and the whole bank will not get charged properly. Mismatching usage or size is a quick way to turn a 450 amp-hour battery bank into a 400 amp-hour battery bank and eventually a 300 amp-hour battery bank.
The 6V vs 12V is due to normal battery sizes, since the 6V golf cart batteries have thicker plates and thus have better deep cycle performance. It requires 4 plates for 6V and 8 plates for 12V. 8D batteries and others that are physically much larger do not have this problem, the batteries are wide enough to support 8 thick plates.
It sounds like the company is not creative on finding a place to put the batteries or using alternative batteries. Look for a place to weld a battery cage, move the chassis battery (or batteries). You could use AGMs, they do not need to be vented and are maintenance free, but are around twice as much. You could go with lithium batteries, another price jump, but they can be discharged to 80% safely and there is little voltage sag, so 200 amp-hours of lithium will power a microwave.
-- Edited by bjoyce on Sunday 16th of March 2014 10:19:03 AM
I did not want the panels on the roof as well. I have unique set up but as for the batteries you should be able to get 4 - 225 amp AGM batteries in one of the front compartments as 4 batteries would take up a 22" x 14" footprint x 12" high. Take a look in the front compartments and see where they would best fit.
I went with AGM's so I did not have to build a vented battery box and could put the batteries and inverter in the front compartment together.
Hope this helps.
Les
-- Edited by bigboomer on Sunday 16th of March 2014 05:51:24 PM
Tmalloy21 said
03:10 PM Mar 16, 2014
Thanks for the replies! I'm going to call them tomorrow and run some of these suggestions by them. I may have to take a drive up there to talk to the mechanics personally if I can't get answers thru the sales staff. I like the idea of the AMG batteries so I will ask about that too.
bjoyce said
03:50 PM Mar 16, 2014
If they don't seem to know what you are talking about, then find someone else for this task.
Tmalloy21 said
04:03 AM Mar 17, 2014
What manufacturer did you all go with? Do you have the same company for all of the components or did you mix and match? I'm looking at Zamp Solar and Go Power.
Howard said
08:19 AM Mar 17, 2014
DITTO!!!!
We've seen lots and lots of people that aren't getting the full benefit of their solar panels and battery banks because the dealer (and even manufacturer) installers don't know what they are doing and don't cable the system properly.
bjoyce wrote:
If they don't seem to know what you are talking about, then find someone else for this task.
Tmalloy21 said
08:34 AM Mar 17, 2014
Who should I be looking for to do the install? An automotive electrical person, an electrical engineer, a solar person? Does anyone have any recommendations in New England to do a solar install on an RV? I'm not doing roof panels. Thanks!
Lucky Mike said
09:24 AM Mar 17, 2014
if you are doing a quick disconnect type system where the panels are carried in and out for set up and need it installed check with someone Solar that is local or wait....depending on your route of travel...(most New englanders go south...LOL) you will find more solar installers in the southern areas....a few at rallys here and there too......it will also help you see more of what is available and different installation methods for Travel trailers..
Solar is great but it is also an investment that you dont want to have to do twice.........your headed in the right direction but go slowly.....better to understand solar first and its workings than to install a pricey system and then try to understand why it wont do what you want it to.
There are several on here that have intense knowledge on the subject....I would suggest looking at some of Jack Mayer's postings here on the forum and following them to his links to get a good grasp.....you might want to PM him, maybe he has a referral to someone in your route
-- Edited by Lucky Mike on Monday 17th of March 2014 09:26:19 AM
Bill and Linda said
10:38 AM Mar 17, 2014
Just an observation – Have you noted just how much physical area a 450 watt solar panel system takes?That is when placed on the ground or wherever for operation it is a fairly large area. So the physical mechanics of storage and setting up such an array could be somewhat challenging.
In many people’s opinion, 6 volt batteries are a bit better but not enough to lose a lot of sleep over.But I recommend 6 volt.
You could carry “extra” batteries and connect them but they must be the exact same battery and the connecting cables, all things being equal, need to be the same distance from the charge controller as the installed batteries to insure balanced changing and draw.However, if you vehicle charges the batteries which are installed in the trailer when you travel then adding batteries when you stop is not a good idea due to the fact the charged level of the installed vs. “portable” batteries won’t be the same.Will it work?Yes, but it will shorten the life of all the batteries.Now, if you don’t move a lot maybe all this doesn’t matter as much.
Here’s the link to Jack’s discussion as Mike suggested.Get a cup of coffee.This is technical and solar is technical.
Also being in the East you will have less good solar charging days than in the West, especially the Southwest. I think that is why you see fewer RVs in the East with solar and therefore fewer technical types who do installs. I do not know your reasons for wanting solar, but I would concentrate on the battery issue first, since without a good battery bank solar won't do much.
Tmalloy21 said
11:30 AM Mar 17, 2014
Hey Bill, I'm definitely going South West! As far from cold and snow as I can get. It's been a looooonnnng winter! Bill and Linda, no I haven't really looked into that yet so I will check out the size. Mike, I have been reading Jack's info and it's a good idea to PM him. Also, great advice to wait, thanks! I think I may do that as I'm getting any level of confidence that the RV guys where I"m buying it from know anything about solar systems, even though they represent one!
Thanks for all the info and advice, I really appreciate it!
blijil said
04:17 PM Mar 17, 2014
Just a thought about another consideration it is easy to forget about a solar installation. How much with it weigh and can you afford that much in your cargo carrying capacity. Batteries of any type are heavy and large systems usually get to be considerable. Dont get me wrong, we love our solar but we found a small generator combined with a 200 watt or so system was sufficient and the maximum we could handle with our cargo carrying limits.
Good luck on finding the right mix.
Larry and Jacki
bigboomer said
07:23 PM Mar 17, 2014
Bill and Larry both make good points....our 3 panels take up a 5' x 10' foot print. Each panel weighs about 69 lbs. The 6 batteries we carry in the front compartment put an additional 450 lbs into the hitch pin. At 75 lbs each they are not portable by any means. Careful patient planning is key and consulting with Jack is a must!
Tmalloy21 said
06:17 AM Mar 18, 2014
Great point. I didn't realize it weighed that much. Larry and Jacki - With the 200 watt panels and the generator are you finding you can fully charge the batteries? From the research I'm doing it seems like the biggest issue is that people don't understand how to hook it up and they're not fully charging their batteries. What manufacturer are your solar components from? Which generator do you have? Thank you!
jimindenver said
11:16 AM Mar 23, 2014
If I may
I use a 230 watt high voltage panel and a 20 amp mppt controller unmounted. There are ups and downs to using a portable, some you can mitigate.
The ups are
A portable can track the sun from before sun up until after sun down, allowing you to collect twice as much as you can with a ridged roof mounted panel of the same size. On a clear summer day we can collect around 200 ah with 230w.
You can take advantage of the sun when you get it. We had many morning sun, afternoon cloud days last year. A mounted system would have had only 3 hours of peak sun at best.
The cost of a portable system is cheaper simply because it doesn't have to be mounted with the hardware needed and again it can be twice as effective meaning you buy less from the start.
Not being mounted also means no holes added to the roof and if you trade up your rig, the solar stays with you. You also don't have to remount if you upgrade the system.
You can leave a portable baking in the hot sun while your rig sits in the cool shade.
Cleaning a panel at ground level is much easier than climbing on the roof.
Now for some of the down sides.
Our 230w panel is big. Newer ones are smaller but still, they are not small or light. I can pick ours up and carry it but the size means I need help getting it in and out of the rig so that I don't bang things up.
We have stored ours on the bed or in the walkway. It's fine for us because we never travel and only deal with it once when we get to the spot and again when we go home. Be traveling and stop for the night and you still have to take the panel out to use the rig.
Being in the rig means there is no charging while on the road.
Portables are subject to high winds and theft.
The last thing is that even as much as I like the positive side of portables, I can't wait until I finally mount one of my panels and can just not deal with the system most of the time.
Now the mitigation
You can get portable systems made out of smaller panels hinged together for easier handling. You can lock up and stake down the panel and we have even transported it on top of the truck so that we had charging while on the road.
-- Edited by jimindenver on Sunday 23rd of March 2014 11:18:59 AM
Tmalloy21 said
01:28 PM Mar 23, 2014
That's a great idea of transporting it on the roof so it can keep charging. Thanks for the pros and cons list. I'm glad the pros outweighed the cons. I'm rethinking and probably going to go with a 200W portable. 2 6V AMG batteries and the inverter and charger. I'm looking at Zamp Solar. I've called a couple of companies that represent several different brands to see who they recommend and they have said ZAMP. I was going to go with GoPower but Zamp seems to be getting better reviews so far.
What system are you using? Are all components from the same manufacturer or do you have a mix matched system?
jimindenver said
02:41 PM Mar 23, 2014
My system is bits and pieces from here and there.
I woke one morning, checked craigslist and saw a 230w and 220w set of 24v residential panels for $50 each. I was on the road by 6:30 am to pick them up and was on cloud 9 as I drove home. I had no idea about solar or what I had just bought but I was sure happy about it. That didn't last as I quickly found out that I was going to have to spend at least three times as much on a controller to run them. The panels sat in the garage for a year while we used a generator to keep the battery up while out camping.
A year later I found and took a chance on a new Chinese 20a MPPT controller for $100 and luckily it has done what it said would do. I picked up a set of 25 ft solar cables on ebay for $32 and we started using one of the panels last spring. It was so nice to not hearing the generator run and even better not needing to conserve the power.
I have found that most pre made portables are vastly over priced for what you get. My 230w system would cost roughly $400 to set at retail prices. There are less expensive kits, a 200w kit with two 100w panels, controller and cords for $300 but the controller is low end. Luckily a PWM controller is much less expensive than a MPPT.
jimindenver said
06:56 PM Mar 23, 2014
These are my panels to give you a idea of the sizing for handling and storage. lately most panels in the 230 -270w range are the size of the smaller one.
Hello!
I'm getting a 2014 Coachmen Catalina 33ft. tow behind. I want to add solar (stand alone panels not roof mounted) and I am looking at a 450 watt system. It says you need at least a bank of 4 12v batteries. The company I'm getting the RV from says you can only put two 6V batteries in the compartment. I asked about 2 12v and they're saying I would get more amps with 2 6V.
Can you please advise on the 6V vs. 12V regarding amps. And is there another way to have the 4 bank of batteries as in can you carry two with you and hook them up externally or something when you're parked?
-- Edited by Tmalloy21 on Sunday 16th of March 2014 07:53:05 AM
The batteries need to be the same and need to be charged and discharged together. Getting all the batteries charged properly is the only way to have the full capacity from your battery bank. Any deviation will not allow you to use them as deeply and their life will be shortened. If you split the bank then the ones always being used would get slightly weaker than the ones not being used as much. If the batteries are different, they will charge a bit differently and the whole bank will not get charged properly. Mismatching usage or size is a quick way to turn a 450 amp-hour battery bank into a 400 amp-hour battery bank and eventually a 300 amp-hour battery bank.
The 6V vs 12V is due to normal battery sizes, since the 6V golf cart batteries have thicker plates and thus have better deep cycle performance. It requires 4 plates for 6V and 8 plates for 12V. 8D batteries and others that are physically much larger do not have this problem, the batteries are wide enough to support 8 thick plates.
It sounds like the company is not creative on finding a place to put the batteries or using alternative batteries. Look for a place to weld a battery cage, move the chassis battery (or batteries). You could use AGMs, they do not need to be vented and are maintenance free, but are around twice as much. You could go with lithium batteries, another price jump, but they can be discharged to 80% safely and there is little voltage sag, so 200 amp-hours of lithium will power a microwave.
-- Edited by bjoyce on Sunday 16th of March 2014 10:19:03 AM
Terry,
Here is what I did for our system:
http://s962.photobucket.com/user/mybigboomer/library/RV%20Solar%20System?sort=6&page=1
I did not want the panels on the roof as well. I have unique set up but as for the batteries you should be able to get 4 - 225 amp AGM batteries in one of the front compartments as 4 batteries would take up a 22" x 14" footprint x 12" high. Take a look in the front compartments and see where they would best fit.
I went with AGM's so I did not have to build a vented battery box and could put the batteries and inverter in the front compartment together.
Hope this helps.
Les
-- Edited by bigboomer on Sunday 16th of March 2014 05:51:24 PM
What manufacturer did you all go with? Do you have the same company for all of the components or did you mix and match? I'm looking at Zamp Solar and Go Power.
DITTO!!!!
We've seen lots and lots of people that aren't getting the full benefit of their solar panels and battery banks because the dealer (and even manufacturer) installers don't know what they are doing and don't cable the system properly.
if you are doing a quick disconnect type system where the panels are carried in and out for set up and need it installed check with someone Solar that is local or wait....depending on your route of travel...(most New englanders go south...LOL) you will find more solar installers in the southern areas....a few at rallys here and there too......it will also help you see more of what is available and different installation methods for Travel trailers..
Solar is great but it is also an investment that you dont want to have to do twice.........your headed in the right direction but go slowly.....better to understand solar first and its workings than to install a pricey system and then try to understand why it wont do what you want it to.
There are several on here that have intense knowledge on the subject....I would suggest looking at some of Jack Mayer's postings here on the forum and following them to his links to get a good grasp.....you might want to PM him, maybe he has a referral to someone in your route
-- Edited by Lucky Mike on Monday 17th of March 2014 09:26:19 AM
Just an observation – Have you noted just how much physical area a 450 watt solar panel system takes? That is when placed on the ground or wherever for operation it is a fairly large area. So the physical mechanics of storage and setting up such an array could be somewhat challenging.
In many people’s opinion, 6 volt batteries are a bit better but not enough to lose a lot of sleep over. But I recommend 6 volt.
You could carry “extra” batteries and connect them but they must be the exact same battery and the connecting cables, all things being equal, need to be the same distance from the charge controller as the installed batteries to insure balanced changing and draw. However, if you vehicle charges the batteries which are installed in the trailer when you travel then adding batteries when you stop is not a good idea due to the fact the charged level of the installed vs. “portable” batteries won’t be the same. Will it work? Yes, but it will shorten the life of all the batteries. Now, if you don’t move a lot maybe all this doesn’t matter as much.
Here’s the link to Jack’s discussion as Mike suggested. Get a cup of coffee. This is technical and solar is technical.
http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_electrical_and_solar.htm
Bill
Hey Bill, I'm definitely going South West! As far from cold and snow as I can get. It's been a looooonnnng winter! Bill and Linda, no I haven't really looked into that yet so I will check out the size. Mike, I have been reading Jack's info and it's a good idea to PM him. Also, great advice to wait, thanks! I think I may do that as I'm getting any level of confidence that the RV guys where I"m buying it from know anything about solar systems, even though they represent one!
Thanks for all the info and advice, I really appreciate it!
Just a thought about another consideration it is easy to forget about a solar installation. How much with it weigh and can you afford that much in your cargo carrying capacity. Batteries of any type are heavy and large systems usually get to be considerable. Dont get me wrong, we love our solar but we found a small generator combined with a 200 watt or so system was sufficient and the maximum we could handle with our cargo carrying limits.
Good luck on finding the right mix.
Larry and Jacki
Bill and Larry both make good points....our 3 panels take up a 5' x 10' foot print. Each panel weighs about 69 lbs. The 6 batteries we carry in the front compartment put an additional 450 lbs into the hitch pin. At 75 lbs each they are not portable by any means. Careful patient planning is key and consulting with Jack is a must!
Great point. I didn't realize it weighed that much. Larry and Jacki - With the 200 watt panels and the generator are you finding you can fully charge the batteries? From the research I'm doing it seems like the biggest issue is that people don't understand how to hook it up and they're not fully charging their batteries. What manufacturer are your solar components from? Which generator do you have? Thank you!
If I may
I use a 230 watt high voltage panel and a 20 amp mppt controller unmounted. There are ups and downs to using a portable, some you can mitigate.
The ups are
A portable can track the sun from before sun up until after sun down, allowing you to collect twice as much as you can with a ridged roof mounted panel of the same size. On a clear summer day we can collect around 200 ah with 230w.
You can take advantage of the sun when you get it. We had many morning sun, afternoon cloud days last year. A mounted system would have had only 3 hours of peak sun at best.
The cost of a portable system is cheaper simply because it doesn't have to be mounted with the hardware needed and again it can be twice as effective meaning you buy less from the start.
Not being mounted also means no holes added to the roof and if you trade up your rig, the solar stays with you. You also don't have to remount if you upgrade the system.
You can leave a portable baking in the hot sun while your rig sits in the cool shade.
Cleaning a panel at ground level is much easier than climbing on the roof.
Now for some of the down sides.
Our 230w panel is big. Newer ones are smaller but still, they are not small or light. I can pick ours up and carry it but the size means I need help getting it in and out of the rig so that I don't bang things up.
We have stored ours on the bed or in the walkway. It's fine for us because we never travel and only deal with it once when we get to the spot and again when we go home. Be traveling and stop for the night and you still have to take the panel out to use the rig.
Being in the rig means there is no charging while on the road.
Portables are subject to high winds and theft.
The last thing is that even as much as I like the positive side of portables, I can't wait until I finally mount one of my panels and can just not deal with the system most of the time.
Now the mitigation
You can get portable systems made out of smaller panels hinged together for easier handling. You can lock up and stake down the panel and we have even transported it on top of the truck so that we had charging while on the road.
-- Edited by jimindenver on Sunday 23rd of March 2014 11:18:59 AM
What system are you using? Are all components from the same manufacturer or do you have a mix matched system?
I woke one morning, checked craigslist and saw a 230w and 220w set of 24v residential panels for $50 each. I was on the road by 6:30 am to pick them up and was on cloud 9 as I drove home. I had no idea about solar or what I had just bought but I was sure happy about it. That didn't last as I quickly found out that I was going to have to spend at least three times as much on a controller to run them. The panels sat in the garage for a year while we used a generator to keep the battery up while out camping.
A year later I found and took a chance on a new Chinese 20a MPPT controller for $100 and luckily it has done what it said would do. I picked up a set of 25 ft solar cables on ebay for $32 and we started using one of the panels last spring. It was so nice to not hearing the generator run and even better not needing to conserve the power.
I have found that most pre made portables are vastly over priced for what you get. My 230w system would cost roughly $400 to set at retail prices. There are less expensive kits, a 200w kit with two 100w panels, controller and cords for $300 but the controller is low end. Luckily a PWM controller is much less expensive than a MPPT.
These are my panels to give you a idea of the sizing for handling and storage. lately most panels in the 230 -270w range are the size of the smaller one.
The 230w in use.