I am still 18 months to 2 years away from making my purchase of our new home on Wheels but i do reseach things to death, so i want to get it right the first time.
I know thats just a dream but i can try!
We have been RVing of some kind for over 30 years, so we do have some understanding of what makes a good trailer. I thought we had pretty much made up our minds to go with a new DRV Estate , But we are seeing that they seem to be having a lot of quality issue now for some reason ( Maybe they just can not realy handle the new volume of sales) others that we have looked at have been New Horizon, great units just may be a little to much money and a little to heavy for me.
Don't want to have to go to a HDT.
Heartland ( Landmark) units look Ok but does'nt seem close when looking at the whole package compared to the DRV Estate, have not been able to find much info on artic Fox but hear it is a good unit, Right now i have been looking at the Lifestyle by Ever/Green which i guess is the old Carriage.
Has anybody had any experance yet with Life Style or seen one. I am on the East coast ( New England) and Luxury 5 wheels are hard to find in the area to really check them out so most of my reseach has been online. We do plan to attend one of the larger RV shows before we buy , put i would love to hear some imput for this Group as there seems to be a lot of Knowledge here. Like a lot of you i am counting the days to our next adventure, it just can't get here fast enough
Terry and Jo said
02:58 PM Feb 27, 2014
Bob,
I don't know if you've been there, but check out SOITC (Suites Owners International Travel Club) to find a place where you can find more information on the DRV products. The quality issue is one that generally applies to every brand, so I wouldn't rule out the DRV's just yet. When I've advised folks to check out owner's forums, I usually advise them to register and ask their own questions. One question that I suggest asking is, "If you were to buy another RV, would you buy the "x" brand again. With owner's forums, they tend to draw participants that are looking for a solution to a problem. Because of that, owner's forums can seem to be mostly a listing of problems. However, one can usually determine that the number of participants on a forum are way less than the number of owners out there.
One thing that I will say about DRV specifically is that the factory has a good reputation among the members of the forums for stepping up to the plate and helping buyers with their problems. I'm sure other manufacturers do that as well, but there are some that don't. Another thing to do is research and choose a good dealer by finding out about their reputations. One for DRV that I"m familiar with is Rolling Retreats in Elk City, Oklahoma. Slade and Alicia are the owners and just about the only employees. They deal primarily with DRV products as a dealership. Slade also goes to the factory himself to pick up the trailers that they order so that he can look them over before he even leaves the factory. Shoot, he even delivers anywhere in the 48 states.
Another dealership that seems to have a good reputation is RV's for Less out of Tennessee. However, I don't know anything about them, so I can't verify their reputation.
Good luck in your research. Taking this amount of time to research is a good thing to do as you can have a check to check out as many aspects of the products. If you can, go on factory tours. I've known of folks that changed their minds about what they bought simply by what they saw at the factories.
New Horizons, Spacecraft, and Forks RV's (also known as Continental Coach) are all pretty much custom builds, but also much more expensive. Jack Mayer is an owner and ambassador for New Horizons, so he can tell you a lot more. I can't speak for Spacecraft and Forks RV's but the New Horizon has a 16-inch frame and DRV's Elite, Mobile, and Mobile Estates models have 15-inch frames.
Terry
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
03:48 PM Feb 27, 2014
There is an owners forum for the Lifestyle- www.carriage-lifestyle-owners.com/
Its a mix of Carriage owners and the new Lifestyle. Not many complaints and the rigs seem to be well built. The are having some growing pains though, and their dealer network seems to leave alot to be desired.
jayc said
04:50 PM Feb 27, 2014
Why don't you come over to the Heartland Owners forum where you will find others, like ourselves, who live full time in our Landmark. Others have chosen the Bighorn and Big Country, both of which are rated and warranted for full time use.
Lynn and Ed said
05:06 PM Feb 27, 2014
Bob,
Welcome to the forum. There are many choices out there. Before you discount any, you should look at all the pros and cons--which I am sure you will.
Regarding New Horizons, depending upon the length and set-up, you can easily tow one in a MDT. Regarding the price of the New Horizons, you can always purchase used and/or look at their Summit model. Jack Mayer is currently selling his 2012 Majestic, if he has not already -- and in 18-24 months he will be selling his 2014 (as well as you can likely find other option on NH's website).
From what I've seen so far, they seem to pretty nice quality a little cheaper than New Horizons.
We are preparing to go look at a 41GKE.
TRAILERKING said
10:15 PM Feb 27, 2014
Wow........Some of those are pretty nice a n d BIG. If entered one blind-folded then had a peak you'd swear you're in a full blown house. Quite roomy and comfy.
Bobc said
08:21 PM Feb 28, 2014
Thanks everybody. Really hoping Drv gets there act together overall I really love there product and the ability to customize. The more I look at other brands the more I come back to the DRV .
We really like the Estate. We have been researching rolling tree and RV,S for less and it seems like that both offer very good pricing and up front service.
Also really like New Horizon but just may be to expensive and I don,t want to go bigger than a f550 or the dodge 3500. So I want to keep the trailer loaded under 23000 lbs and at 40'
WestWardHo said
12:09 PM Mar 1, 2014
Bobc,
For what it's worth, we love our Dynamax Trilogy, owned by Forest River. Don't know if they updated their brochure since 2013 but they are awesome units and several of us on here have them. Heartland has great customer service and the Landmarks we've seen have been really nice too. So if NH isn't in your budget you might want to look closely to these two. Also use the search button in the blue bar at the top of the forum to search earlier posts on many brands.
Sherry
Neil and Connie said
03:14 PM Mar 1, 2014
Bobc wrote:
We have been RVing of some kind for over 30 years, so we do have some understanding of what makes a good trailer. I thought we had pretty much made up our minds to go with a new DRV Estate
Hi Bob. When we decided to go full time we pretty quickly narrowed our choices down to a high end DRV or a New Horizons. So those were the two factory tours we went on…did the DRV first and were not overly impressed with the wall construction. Did the NH next…and if you're an engineer then it took about the first 10 minutes of that tour to see that in all the matters that matter (strength, insulation, cabinet quality, included items that are an option for DRV, etc) that the NH was clearly a better built coach.
That said…a couple of things to remember; but since you'e been RVing for many years you probably already know these.
All RVs are built like crap…it's just that NH and DRV built better quality crap. No RV is built like or will last like even a cheap tract house. However, they have the advantage of wheels so you can move them around.
Sure, the NHs are more expensive; but if you forego a few of the higher end items and get their Summit model instead of the higher end (and wider) Majestic then the total price similarly equipped is pretty close to the fully equipped DRV. It's a matter of what you can afford and want though…H&L's Cambridge is pretty nice and was a lot less than our NH.
I can't really speak for the other high end brands…we looked at a Heartland at a show and thought it was on par with the Keystone products…nice but if you're going to live full time in it and can afford it then nicer is better.
Our NH Majestic is 39' and weights 21,500 loaded. We're well within all of the weight limits of our 2012 F450 except we are a couple hundred pounds over on the rear axle…can't do anything about this but I bumped the rear tire pressure up a bit so we're well clear of the tire limits. A couple of friends of ours have a 41' NH currently in production and they went with either a 550 or a 650 (can't remember which) and a hauler bed…their original plan was the higher tow capacity Chevy HD3500 but were going to be well over the rear axle limit since the extra length over ours is all in the bedroom.
With the sole exception of the axle load we have had no issues at all towing; all up and down the Rockies and Canadian Rockies last summer…New England the summer before and cross the country 3 times now. We cruise at 58 for mileage purposes and usually the truck will downshift to 5th or maybe 4th on steep hills but I don't think we've ever dropped below about 46 or 47 mph on climbs. We got the hydraulic disks brakes and the ABS option from NH and have no issues with braking as well. So…you don't really need an HDT for a NH (at least for up to 39')…although I think if were doing it again we might go with the 550/650 and put on a hauler body instead of the pickup bed. The big drawback (at least for us) with the HDT is parking (I know, they say you can park it anywhere…but we have issues with parking our F450 dualley and the HDT is at least as big)…but mostly is was that we don't know anything about HDTs. We're not afraid of learning but we don't even know what we don't know…there are maintenance items to worry about that I don't even know exist. We felt like we would easily be led astray by unscrupulous sales folks due to our complete lack of knowledge. That said…the HDT does have better towing and braking than anything smaller…but given our complete lack of towing/braking issues I don't feel like the HDT would have been a wise decision for us. I have had to almost panic stop twice in the two years we've been on the road and while the HDT might have stopped a little quicker the 21,500 pound trailer isn't going to stop like a car anyway.
Bobc said
03:34 PM Mar 1, 2014
Neil I am with you 100% on the truck! the 39' majestic would work for use if I can keep it in the 21-23,000 # range. I do want to go with a hauler bed if we can, but not sure how much more weight that add,s. So so many things to think about. I do also like that NH can help match up the truck with the trailer. That could be a huge advantage. This is going to be our home foe awhile, so I want to start out on the right foot.
Bill and Linda said
05:12 PM Mar 1, 2014
The current issue F-450 2011 and forward, has only a 9,100lb rear axle which is its major limiting factor. The 2015 F-450 is rumored, according to publications, to be seriously improved in the rear axle department along with bigger tires, an exhaust brake, etc. This could make it much more suitable for adding a hauler bed and still handling a 102 Majestic depending on the size of the trailer.The specs of the week are due out from Ford by April.
The “thing” with the F-550, or the RAM 5500HD, is the reduced horse power and torque.The F-450 has 100 HP more and a lot (can’t recall the exact number) more torque than the F-550’s because of EPA limitations for the CA trucks.But the RAM 5500HD and F-550 certainly can handle the weight.But you should consider true air ride or you will really bounce (ride rough) when running solo with either of these trucks.
The RAM 3500HD and the Chevy 3500HD, like the F-450, don’t have the reduce engine capacity.
Just info
Bill
nomorsno said
05:32 PM Mar 1, 2014
I had a real good look at a Lifestyle 38RS last weekend while we were visiting friends in Phoenix AZ. That is our floorplan of choice for right now and similar to you we are looking to buy later this year or beginning of '15. I did some research on the Lifestyle website etc. and I like that they build their own frame in house from box tubing. 2 welded 6" box tubes for a 12" frame rail, similar but smaller than DRV or NH but same design. An engineer friend at work tells me that box tubing would help with torsional loads where I beam may twist a bit more. The name Lippert brings up mixed reviews for sure. Lots of I beam frames out there so not a deal breaker. Slides look like a schwintek gear system and all electrical is wrapped to avoid damage. The interior was very nice with the right fridge/stove,countertops, cabinets etc that my wife likes and wants in a fulltime unit. Furniture seemed comfortable and well built, Samsung tv instead of some unknown brand that I have seen in other rigs. The king mattress was not great to lie on, could feel springs or something in there but again not a tough upgrade. All the woodwork seemed well done and felt and sounded like real wood not a laminate. This looks like the right unit for us but as mentioned here many times it is all about personal choice and budget. The Heartland Landmark beside the Lifestyle was also a very nice rig with loads of nice features. I think Lifestyle is the one for us but not closing the door completely on other units.
Terry and Jo said
05:57 PM Mar 1, 2014
Bill and Linda wrote:
The current issue F-450 2011 and forward, has only a 9,100lb rear axle which is its major limiting factor.The 2015 F-450 is rumored, according to publications, to be seriously improved in the rear axle department along with bigger tires, an exhaust brake, etc. This could make it much more suitable for adding a hauler bed and still handling a 102 Majestic depending on the size of the trailer.The specs of the week are due out from Ford by April.
Just info
Bill
Bill,
According to the Ford Brochures, the F450 for 2011 had a rear axle weight rating of 9750 lbs. 2012, 2013, and 2014 all were a little less at 9650 lbs for the rear axle rating.
Terry
Jack Mayer said
06:28 PM Mar 1, 2014
You do not need an HDT to tow a 40' New Horizons - even one fully optioned up. Bill and others have covered the available options. The new Ford is going to be a good one to watch. The biggest thing to look for in a tow vehicle for a heavier RV is the rear axle rating, and the height of the bedsides. IMO, ALL of the pickups should be converted to hauler bodies. It avoids a lot of issues, but it may increase the weights on the rear axle.
There are very good reasons to use an HDT, that you may wish to explore. You can pretty much do what you want with them. And carrying a smart on deck is becoming pretty common. Before you "po-po" the smart you really need to do more than just look at one on the road. They are a surprising car if you only need to carry two people.
Our trailer probably would not suit you, but the info is here. There is a link to pictures in the data sheet. LOTS of pictures.....
-- Edited by Jack Mayer on Saturday 1st of March 2014 06:32:37 PM
Bill and Linda said
07:56 PM Mar 1, 2014
Terry and Jo wrote:
Bill and Linda wrote:
The current issue F-450 2011 and forward, has only a 9,100lb rear axle which is its major limiting factor.The 2015 F-450 is rumored, according to publications, to be seriously improved in the rear axle department along with bigger tires, an exhaust brake, etc. This could make it much more suitable for adding a hauler bed and still handling a 102 Majestic depending on the size of the trailer.The specs of the week are due out from Ford by April.
Just info
Bill
Bill,
According to the Ford Brochures, the F450 for 2011 had a rear axle weight rating of 9750 lbs. 2012, 2013, and 2014 all were a little less at 9650 lbs for the rear axle rating.
Terry
Terry, I think you’re looking at the F-350 not the F-450.
The current F-450 is 9,100 lbs for the RAWR. I believe it was 2011 when the reduced it to improve the ride.
Independent twin I-Beam (narrow front track) with coil springs, shock absorbers, stabilizer bar (F-250/F-350 4x2)
Mono beam (narrow front track) with coil springs, shock absorbers, stabilizer bar (F-250/F-350 4x4) Mono beam (wide front track) with coil springs, shock absorbers, stabilizer bar (F-450)
Max. Front GAWR
5250 lbs. (F-250/F-350 4x2)
5600 lbs. (F-250/F-350 SRW 4x4)
5940 lbs. (F-350/F-450 DRW 4x4)
Springs
Coil
Shock absorbers
Heavy-duty gas
Stabilizer bar
Standard
REAR SUSPENSION
Type
Solid axle
Max. Rear GAWR
6290 lbs. (F-250);
7180 lbs. (F-350 SRW);
9650 lbs. (F-350 DRW);
9100 lbs. (F-450)
kb0zke said
08:09 PM Mar 1, 2014
Welcome to the head-scratching part, Bob. Jo Ann and I spent nearly three years researching, first deciding on what type of coach would suit us, then finding the highest quality brands for that type, and eventually looking for the coach we would buy. If you haven't already done so, spend some time deciding what your full-time life will be like. Will you be moving frequently (at least monthly) or will you stay for several months in one place? How many people? How many and what kind of pets? Will you be in very hot or very cold places?
We started out thinking that a motor home would cost too much for us to afford to drive, and we were greatly impressed by a 5'er we saw. As we researched, though, we realized that a 5'er capable of being a full-time coach will be heavy and require a pretty strong (large) truck to safely tow it. That truck would, of necessity, be our daily driver. A motor home, though, can tow a more fuel-efficient vehicle. As Jack says, getting a really big truck can make sense if you also carry a small car.
We thought about a Smart as a toad, too. Last summer we found out why one wouldn't work for us. We had three of us in our MH, and we couldn't have all gone together in the Smart. Our part-time job had something to do with our choice of a toad, too, which is why we're driving a Jeep Liberty.
Ask lots of questions and don't lock yourself into a particular type of coach just yet. You may find yourself changing your mind, maybe even more than once. It is much easier (and cheaper) to change your mind BEFORE you buy something.
Bobc said
09:01 PM Mar 1, 2014
We have already been back and forth on the MH versus the 5th wheel, we have had both over there years and each does have its advantages. But we have come to the conclusion that a 5th wheel for long term leaving would just feel more like home to us. But you never know we are open and do still check out MH,s just to see what may change. As it is I am driving my wife crazy with all the research I am doing. I am a planner and love the hunt.
Jack Mayer said
08:49 AM Mar 2, 2014
The weight and tow issues questions constantly come up....and while there are some resources to help none of them are as complete as I feel they should be. So for heavier 5ers I was planning to write a "towing guide" of sorts. Bill and I have been discussing this for awhile now....once I settle down a little longer I'll knock something out....I need to do it for New Horizons, anyway - because it CONSTANTLY comes up in conjunction with their trailers. The average length of a NH is now slightly over 40' (lets just call it 40'). So it is right in the "heavy" category. The problem with doing this will be in keeping it current....
kb0zke said
09:09 AM Mar 2, 2014
"once I settle down a little longer I'll knock something out" That seems to be my problem, too. When we moved down here in 1998 we were told that life in the Ozarks was slower than "up north." With three teens we didn't see anything slower. I retired almost a year ago and thought things would slow down. They still haven't. Maybe when we're completely full-timing that will happen, but somehow I don't think so.
Bill and Linda said
12:16 PM Mar 2, 2014
kb0zke wrote:
I retired almost a year ago and thought things would slow down. They still haven't. Maybe when we're completely full-timing that will happen, but somehow I don't think so.
That’s because retirement is a full-time job; especially when you travel.Always busy going and doing.Great job – I highly recommend it.
BTW, I warn people who retire that they will need a portable calendar with them at all times to keep their schedule straight.
Terry and Jo said
12:23 PM Mar 2, 2014
Bill and Linda wrote:
Terry, I think you’re looking at the F-350 not the F-450.
The current F-450 is 9,100 lbs for the RAWR. I believe it was 2011 when the reduced it to improve the ride.
Independent twin I-Beam (narrow front track) with coil springs, shock absorbers, stabilizer bar (F-250/F-350 4x2)
Mono beam (narrow front track) with coil springs, shock absorbers, stabilizer bar (F-250/F-350 4x4) Mono bm (wide front track) with coil springs, shock absorbers, stabilizer bar (F-450)
Max. Front GAWR
5250 lbs. (F-250/F-350 4x2)
5600 lbs. (F-250/F-350 SRW 4x4)
5940 lbs. (F-350/F-450 DRW 4x4)
Springs
Coil
Shock absorbers
Heavy-duty gas
Stabilizer bar
Standard
REAR SUSPENSION
Type
Solid axle
Max. Rear GAWR
6290 lbs. (F-250);
7180 lbs. (F-350 SRW);
9650 lbs. (F-350 DRW);
9100 lbs. (F-450)
All of the following were "copied and pasted" from each year's brochures. I would think that those were pretty well proof-read prior to publishing. Not so sure a website listing would be proofed as well. Note that for all years, both the F350 DRW and the F450 have the same ratings.
Independent twin I-Beam (narrow front track) with coil springs, shock absorbers, stabilizer bar (F-250/F-350 4x2)
Mono beam (narrow front track) with coil springs, shock absorbers, stabilizer bar (F-250/F-350 4x4) Mono bm (wide front track) with coil springs, shock absorbers, stabilizer bar (F-450)
Max. Front GAWR
5250 lbs. (F-250/F-350 4x2)
5600 lbs. (F-250/F-350 SRW 4x4)
5940 lbs. (F-350/F-450 DRW 4x4)
Springs
Coil
Shock absorbers
Heavy-duty gas
Stabilizer bar
Standard
REAR SUSPENSION
Type
Solid axle
Max. Rear GAWR
6290 lbs. (F-250);
7180 lbs. (F-350 SRW);
9650 lbs. (F-350 DRW);
9100 lbs. (F-450)
All of the following were "copied and pasted" from each year's brochures. I would think that those were pretty well proof-read prior to publishing. Not so sure a website listing would be proofed as well. Note that for all years, both the F350 DRW and the F450 have the same ratings.
Terry, I not going to argue the point.The brochures are printed way ahead of production. I believe I have pointed this out before as some were found to be in error. The Ford web site and the placard on the door give the current number for the current offerings as to ratings. Again, I encourage all to do their own homework and verify for themselves before assuming anything.
Bill and Linda said
12:54 PM Mar 2, 2014
Jack Mayer wrote:
The weight and tow issues questions constantly come up....and while there are some resources to help none of them are as complete as I feel they should be. So for heavier 5ers I was planning to write a "towing guide" of sorts. Bill and I have been discussing this for awhile now....once I settle down a little longer I'll knock something out....I need to do it for New Horizons, anyway - because it CONSTANTLY comes up in conjunction with their trailers. The average length of a NH is now slightly over 40' (lets just call it 40'). So it is right in the "heavy" category. The problem with doing this will be in keeping it current....
One of the challenges, IMO, is there is no such thing as an “F-350,” an “F-450,” or a Chevy 3500HD for example, with knownby the badge ratings.Ford’s especially are all over the place as to ratings and they change year to year and sometimes mid-year.This doesn’t make anything or any brand “bad” as such. But it means you have to check the specific truck by year and equipment you are considering and not by the badge on the side. 3500HD, means nothing these days and neither does F-450 without further investigation.There are F-450’s with a 12,000 RAWR; but not with a pickup bed on them and a 400HP engine.
As I alluded to, the trucks with greater capacity, such as a RAM 5500HD or an F-550, have seriously reduced engine ratings from their lighter weight counter parts.For example, the 2014 F-350 offers 400HP and 800 ft-lbs of torque.But the 2014 F-550 is de-rated to 300 HP and 660 ft-lbs or torque.The same is true for the RAM trucks if ordered as a CA (cab and axle) truck.They de-rate the engines from the RAM 3500HD “pickup” offerings.
I just offer all this for perspective as to say it is simply necessary to do your homework by brand, model year and specific truck or you may be in for a surprise.Then we need to get into bed rail heights and the issues all the relatively new and very tall pickup bed rails can cause if you don’t lift your trailer or use a hauler bed.
Bobc said
01:30 PM Mar 2, 2014
Ok, jack and Bill you have now confused me completely, I want to allow for a hitch weight of around 5500 lbs. I plan on traveling across country and need to be able to handle the Mtn out west.
I want a 40' trailer with disk brake,s and the trailer will be well optioned out. What truck do I want? I would like a hauler bed if I can afford it.
Confused what do I buy, was looking at the f-450 crew with 4 wheel drive or the Dodge 3500 set up the same way, I like the bigger hp.
Bill and Linda said
02:36 PM Mar 2, 2014
Bobc wrote:
Ok, jack and Bill you have now confused me completely, I want to allow for a hitch weight of around 5500 lbs. I plan on traveling across country and need to be able to handle the Mtn out west. I want a 40' trailer with disk brake,s and the trailer will be well optioned out. What truck do I want? I would like a hauler bed if I can afford it. Confused what do I buy, was looking at the f-450 crew with 4 wheel drive or the Dodge 3500 set up the same way, I like the bigger hp.
Bob:
Based on the above spec, IMO, you want a RAM 5500HD or an F-550.The RAM officers more torque and higher HP than the Ford, but if you like Ford, it will be just fine.But to get to a 5,500lb pin I say you need one of these two trucks or you will have no weight headroom beyond the pin weight in the 3500HD or the current F-450 and you could exceed some other ratings I won't get into.
With the 5500HD or the F-550 you will be good to a 24,000lb trailer and a 6,000lb pin with a hauler bed, a big aux tank, plus tools and a lot of etc.You have to add a hauler bed because both these are CA (crew cab and axle only) trucks.Hauler beds are a really good idea regardless due to the truck bed rails to trailer pan clearance issues.
With either of these trucks I highly recommend a full air-ride suspension upgrade – at least on the rear or the solo ride will be “not too good.”
I’ve done the charts for these trucks and I believe those are good working numbers.You will need to get the max towing package to make this work and stay within all ratings.
I've got more info on the upfit needed for these two trucks but, IMO, you need to make sure of the trailer specs first. Pick the trailer, then the truck is the good rule many advise.
This is a point of discussion - I want 4-WD and have used it a lot. Others say you don't need it. But we travel a lot and I say get it if you can.Jack's turn.
Bill
Jack Mayer said
05:31 PM Mar 2, 2014
I think I'd be waiting on the new Fords....if you can.
Otherwise, I'd pretty much agree with Bill. In fact, I think I totally agree with him. And it is very important to do the hauler bed, or you ARE going to have issues. Of course, with those choices you have to do it...
Bobc said
06:10 PM Mar 2, 2014
That is my feeling also. The hauler bed is a must have, and I do have the time to wait on the new 450. I really would like to avoid the lower Hp 550.
Not sure why they would lower the HP on the bigger trucks, seems to defeat the purpose.
Bill and Linda said
09:04 AM Mar 3, 2014
Bobc wrote:
Not sure why they would lower the HP on the bigger trucks, seems to defeat the purpose.
EPA and durability issues.All the CA (cab and axle only from the factory) trucks, the ones without pickup beds, with the exception of the Chevy / GM current issue, have reduced power engines.Makes for better emissions and longer engine life in commercial service which is where 99% of these CA trucks end up.The Chevy / GM 3500HD CA trucks used to have a power reduction but they discontinued that engine as of 2012 as I recall.Now they all have the same LML engine offering.
HighwayRanger said
07:31 PM Mar 3, 2014
Excellent discussion! We are in exactly the same situation as the OP. We are looking at the DRV, Excel, and the Lifestyle, and want to go with a dually. I see a hauler bed in our future, and, perhaps a custom 2L brand F450, even though I'd prefer to have Wayland build us a RAM 3500. The 2015 or 2016 F450 is intriguing, and we'll have time to look into that option. We are also on a similar timeline, intending to order the truck/trailer by the summer of 2015.
Hi Everybody
I am still 18 months to 2 years away from making my purchase of our new home on Wheels but i do reseach things to death, so i want to get it right the first time.
I know thats just a dream but i can try!
We have been RVing of some kind for over 30 years, so we do have some understanding of what makes a good trailer. I thought we had pretty much made up our minds to go with a new DRV Estate , But we are seeing that they seem to be having a lot of quality issue now for some reason ( Maybe they just can not realy handle the new volume of sales) others that we have looked at have been New Horizon, great units just may be a little to much money and a little to heavy for me.
Don't want to have to go to a HDT.
Heartland ( Landmark) units look Ok but does'nt seem close when looking at the whole package compared to the DRV Estate, have not been able to find much info on artic Fox but hear it is a good unit, Right now i have been looking at the Lifestyle by Ever/Green which i guess is the old Carriage.
Has anybody had any experance yet with Life Style or seen one. I am on the East coast ( New England) and Luxury 5 wheels are hard to find in the area to really check them out so most of my reseach has been online. We do plan to attend one of the larger RV shows before we buy , put i would love to hear some imput for this Group as there seems to be a lot of Knowledge here. Like a lot of you i am counting the days to our next adventure, it just can't get here fast enough
Bob,
I don't know if you've been there, but check out SOITC (Suites Owners International Travel Club) to find a place where you can find more information on the DRV products. The quality issue is one that generally applies to every brand, so I wouldn't rule out the DRV's just yet. When I've advised folks to check out owner's forums, I usually advise them to register and ask their own questions. One question that I suggest asking is, "If you were to buy another RV, would you buy the "x" brand again. With owner's forums, they tend to draw participants that are looking for a solution to a problem. Because of that, owner's forums can seem to be mostly a listing of problems. However, one can usually determine that the number of participants on a forum are way less than the number of owners out there.
One thing that I will say about DRV specifically is that the factory has a good reputation among the members of the forums for stepping up to the plate and helping buyers with their problems. I'm sure other manufacturers do that as well, but there are some that don't. Another thing to do is research and choose a good dealer by finding out about their reputations. One for DRV that I"m familiar with is Rolling Retreats in Elk City, Oklahoma. Slade and Alicia are the owners and just about the only employees. They deal primarily with DRV products as a dealership. Slade also goes to the factory himself to pick up the trailers that they order so that he can look them over before he even leaves the factory. Shoot, he even delivers anywhere in the 48 states.
Another dealership that seems to have a good reputation is RV's for Less out of Tennessee. However, I don't know anything about them, so I can't verify their reputation.
Good luck in your research. Taking this amount of time to research is a good thing to do as you can have a check to check out as many aspects of the products. If you can, go on factory tours. I've known of folks that changed their minds about what they bought simply by what they saw at the factories.
New Horizons, Spacecraft, and Forks RV's (also known as Continental Coach) are all pretty much custom builds, but also much more expensive. Jack Mayer is an owner and ambassador for New Horizons, so he can tell you a lot more. I can't speak for Spacecraft and Forks RV's but the New Horizon has a 16-inch frame and DRV's Elite, Mobile, and Mobile Estates models have 15-inch frames.
Terry
Its a mix of Carriage owners and the new Lifestyle. Not many complaints and the rigs seem to be well built. The are having some growing pains though, and their dealer network seems to leave alot to be desired.
Why don't you come over to the Heartland Owners forum where you will find others, like ourselves, who live full time in our Landmark. Others have chosen the Bighorn and Big Country, both of which are rated and warranted for full time use.
Bob,
Welcome to the forum. There are many choices out there. Before you discount any, you should look at all the pros and cons--which I am sure you will.
Regarding New Horizons, depending upon the length and set-up, you can easily tow one in a MDT. Regarding the price of the New Horizons, you can always purchase used and/or look at their Summit model. Jack Mayer is currently selling his 2012 Majestic, if he has not already -- and in 18-24 months he will be selling his 2014 (as well as you can likely find other option on NH's website).
Enjoy the research over the next year plus!
Check out Excel RV
From what I've seen so far, they seem to pretty nice quality a little cheaper than New Horizons.
We are preparing to go look at a 41GKE.
Wow........Some of those are pretty nice a n d BIG. If entered one blind-folded then had a peak you'd swear you're in a full blown house. Quite roomy and comfy.
We really like the Estate. We have been researching rolling tree and RV,S for less and it seems like that both offer very good pricing and up front service.
Also really like New Horizon but just may be to expensive and I don,t want to go bigger than a f550 or the dodge 3500. So I want to keep the trailer loaded under 23000 lbs and at 40'
For what it's worth, we love our Dynamax Trilogy, owned by Forest River. Don't know if they updated their brochure since 2013 but they are awesome units and several of us on here have them. Heartland has great customer service and the Landmarks we've seen have been really nice too. So if NH isn't in your budget you might want to look closely to these two. Also use the search button in the blue bar at the top of the forum to search earlier posts on many brands.
Sherry
Hi Bob. When we decided to go full time we pretty quickly narrowed our choices down to a high end DRV or a New Horizons. So those were the two factory tours we went on…did the DRV first and were not overly impressed with the wall construction. Did the NH next…and if you're an engineer then it took about the first 10 minutes of that tour to see that in all the matters that matter (strength, insulation, cabinet quality, included items that are an option for DRV, etc) that the NH was clearly a better built coach.
That said…a couple of things to remember; but since you'e been RVing for many years you probably already know these.
All RVs are built like crap…it's just that NH and DRV built better quality crap. No RV is built like or will last like even a cheap tract house. However, they have the advantage of wheels so you can move them around.
Sure, the NHs are more expensive; but if you forego a few of the higher end items and get their Summit model instead of the higher end (and wider) Majestic then the total price similarly equipped is pretty close to the fully equipped DRV. It's a matter of what you can afford and want though…H&L's Cambridge is pretty nice and was a lot less than our NH.
I can't really speak for the other high end brands…we looked at a Heartland at a show and thought it was on par with the Keystone products…nice but if you're going to live full time in it and can afford it then nicer is better.
Our NH Majestic is 39' and weights 21,500 loaded. We're well within all of the weight limits of our 2012 F450 except we are a couple hundred pounds over on the rear axle…can't do anything about this but I bumped the rear tire pressure up a bit so we're well clear of the tire limits. A couple of friends of ours have a 41' NH currently in production and they went with either a 550 or a 650 (can't remember which) and a hauler bed…their original plan was the higher tow capacity Chevy HD3500 but were going to be well over the rear axle limit since the extra length over ours is all in the bedroom.
With the sole exception of the axle load we have had no issues at all towing; all up and down the Rockies and Canadian Rockies last summer…New England the summer before and cross the country 3 times now. We cruise at 58 for mileage purposes and usually the truck will downshift to 5th or maybe 4th on steep hills but I don't think we've ever dropped below about 46 or 47 mph on climbs. We got the hydraulic disks brakes and the ABS option from NH and have no issues with braking as well. So…you don't really need an HDT for a NH (at least for up to 39')…although I think if were doing it again we might go with the 550/650 and put on a hauler body instead of the pickup bed. The big drawback (at least for us) with the HDT is parking (I know, they say you can park it anywhere…but we have issues with parking our F450 dualley and the HDT is at least as big)…but mostly is was that we don't know anything about HDTs. We're not afraid of learning but we don't even know what we don't know…there are maintenance items to worry about that I don't even know exist. We felt like we would easily be led astray by unscrupulous sales folks due to our complete lack of knowledge. That said…the HDT does have better towing and braking than anything smaller…but given our complete lack of towing/braking issues I don't feel like the HDT would have been a wise decision for us. I have had to almost panic stop twice in the two years we've been on the road and while the HDT might have stopped a little quicker the 21,500 pound trailer isn't going to stop like a car anyway.
The current issue F-450 2011 and forward, has only a 9,100lb rear axle which is its major limiting factor. The 2015 F-450 is rumored, according to publications, to be seriously improved in the rear axle department along with bigger tires, an exhaust brake, etc. This could make it much more suitable for adding a hauler bed and still handling a 102 Majestic depending on the size of the trailer. The specs of the week are due out from Ford by April.
The “thing” with the F-550, or the RAM 5500HD, is the reduced horse power and torque. The F-450 has 100 HP more and a lot (can’t recall the exact number) more torque than the F-550’s because of EPA limitations for the CA trucks. But the RAM 5500HD and F-550 certainly can handle the weight. But you should consider true air ride or you will really bounce (ride rough) when running solo with either of these trucks.
The RAM 3500HD and the Chevy 3500HD, like the F-450, don’t have the reduce engine capacity.
Just info
Bill
I had a real good look at a Lifestyle 38RS last weekend while we were visiting friends in Phoenix AZ. That is our floorplan of choice for right now and similar to you we are looking to buy later this year or beginning of '15. I did some research on the Lifestyle website etc. and I like that they build their own frame in house from box tubing. 2 welded 6" box tubes for a 12" frame rail, similar but smaller than DRV or NH but same design. An engineer friend at work tells me that box tubing would help with torsional loads where I beam may twist a bit more. The name Lippert brings up mixed reviews for sure. Lots of I beam frames out there so not a deal breaker. Slides look like a schwintek gear system and all electrical is wrapped to avoid damage. The interior was very nice with the right fridge/stove,countertops, cabinets etc that my wife likes and wants in a fulltime unit. Furniture seemed comfortable and well built, Samsung tv instead of some unknown brand that I have seen in other rigs. The king mattress was not great to lie on, could feel springs or something in there but again not a tough upgrade. All the woodwork seemed well done and felt and sounded like real wood not a laminate. This looks like the right unit for us but as mentioned here many times it is all about personal choice and budget. The Heartland Landmark beside the Lifestyle was also a very nice rig with loads of nice features. I think Lifestyle is the one for us but not closing the door completely on other units.
Bill,
According to the Ford Brochures, the F450 for 2011 had a rear axle weight rating of 9750 lbs. 2012, 2013, and 2014 all were a little less at 9650 lbs for the rear axle rating.
Terry
You do not need an HDT to tow a 40' New Horizons - even one fully optioned up. Bill and others have covered the available options. The new Ford is going to be a good one to watch. The biggest thing to look for in a tow vehicle for a heavier RV is the rear axle rating, and the height of the bedsides. IMO, ALL of the pickups should be converted to hauler bodies. It avoids a lot of issues, but it may increase the weights on the rear axle.
There are very good reasons to use an HDT, that you may wish to explore. You can pretty much do what you want with them. And carrying a smart on deck is becoming pretty common. Before you "po-po" the smart you really need to do more than just look at one on the road. They are a surprising car if you only need to carry two people.
Our trailer probably would not suit you, but the info is here. There is a link to pictures in the data sheet. LOTS of pictures.....
-- Edited by Jack Mayer on Saturday 1st of March 2014 06:32:37 PM
Terry, I think you’re looking at the F-350 not the F-450.
The current F-450 is 9,100 lbs for the RAWR. I believe it was 2011 when the reduced it to improve the ride.
From the current Ford website specifications:
http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty/specifications/chassis/
Type
Independent twin I-Beam (narrow front track) with coil springs, shock absorbers, stabilizer bar (F-250/F-350 4x2)
Mono beam (narrow front track) with coil springs, shock absorbers, stabilizer bar (F-250/F-350 4x4) Mono beam (wide front track) with coil springs, shock absorbers, stabilizer bar (F-450)
Max. Front GAWR
5250 lbs. (F-250/F-350 4x2)
5600 lbs. (F-250/F-350 SRW 4x4)
5940 lbs. (F-350/F-450 DRW 4x4)
Springs
Coil
Shock absorbers
Heavy-duty gas
Stabilizer bar
Standard
REAR SUSPENSION
Type
Solid axle
Max. Rear GAWR
6290 lbs. (F-250);
7180 lbs. (F-350 SRW);
9650 lbs. (F-350 DRW);
9100 lbs. (F-450)
We started out thinking that a motor home would cost too much for us to afford to drive, and we were greatly impressed by a 5'er we saw. As we researched, though, we realized that a 5'er capable of being a full-time coach will be heavy and require a pretty strong (large) truck to safely tow it. That truck would, of necessity, be our daily driver. A motor home, though, can tow a more fuel-efficient vehicle. As Jack says, getting a really big truck can make sense if you also carry a small car.
We thought about a Smart as a toad, too. Last summer we found out why one wouldn't work for us. We had three of us in our MH, and we couldn't have all gone together in the Smart. Our part-time job had something to do with our choice of a toad, too, which is why we're driving a Jeep Liberty.
Ask lots of questions and don't lock yourself into a particular type of coach just yet. You may find yourself changing your mind, maybe even more than once. It is much easier (and cheaper) to change your mind BEFORE you buy something.
That’s because retirement is a full-time job; especially when you travel. Always busy going and doing. Great job – I highly recommend it.
BTW, I warn people who retire that they will need a portable calendar with them at all times to keep their schedule straight.
All of the following were "copied and pasted" from each year's brochures. I would think that those were pretty well proof-read prior to publishing. Not so sure a website listing would be proofed as well. Note that for all years, both the F350 DRW and the F450 have the same ratings.
Ford Superduty Rear Axle Ratings
2011
Rear Suspension
Type Solid axle
Axle (rating @ ground) 6200 lbs. (F-250); 7280 lbs. (F-350 SRW); 9750 lbs.(F-350 DRW); 9750 lbs. (F-450)
2012
Rear Suspension
Type Solid axle
Axle (rating @ ground) 6,200 lbs. (F-250); 7,180 lbs. (F-350 SRW); 9,650 lbs.; (F-350 DRW); 9,650 lbs. (F-450)
2013
Rear Suspension
Type Solid axle
Axle (rating @ ground) 6,200 lbs. (F-250); 7,280 lbs. (F-350 SRW); 9,650 lbs. (F-350 DRW/F-450)
2014
Rear Suspension
Solid axle
Axle (rating @ ground) –
6,200 lbs. (F-250); 7,280 lbs. (F-350 SRW); 9,650 lbs. (F-350 DRW/F-450)
Terry, I not going to argue the point. The brochures are printed way ahead of production. I believe I have pointed this out before as some were found to be in error. The Ford web site and the placard on the door give the current number for the current offerings as to ratings. Again, I encourage all to do their own homework and verify for themselves before assuming anything.
One of the challenges, IMO, is there is no such thing as an “F-350,” an “F-450,” or a Chevy 3500HD for example, with known by the badge ratings. Ford’s especially are all over the place as to ratings and they change year to year and sometimes mid-year. This doesn’t make anything or any brand “bad” as such. But it means you have to check the specific truck by year and equipment you are considering and not by the badge on the side. 3500HD, means nothing these days and neither does F-450 without further investigation. There are F-450’s with a 12,000 RAWR; but not with a pickup bed on them and a 400HP engine.
As I alluded to, the trucks with greater capacity, such as a RAM 5500HD or an F-550, have seriously reduced engine ratings from their lighter weight counter parts. For example, the 2014 F-350 offers 400HP and 800 ft-lbs of torque. But the 2014 F-550 is de-rated to 300 HP and 660 ft-lbs or torque. The same is true for the RAM trucks if ordered as a CA (cab and axle) truck. They de-rate the engines from the RAM 3500HD “pickup” offerings.
I just offer all this for perspective as to say it is simply necessary to do your homework by brand, model year and specific truck or you may be in for a surprise. Then we need to get into bed rail heights and the issues all the relatively new and very tall pickup bed rails can cause if you don’t lift your trailer or use a hauler bed.
I want a 40' trailer with disk brake,s and the trailer will be well optioned out. What truck do I want? I would like a hauler bed if I can afford it.
Confused what do I buy, was looking at the f-450 crew with 4 wheel drive or the Dodge 3500 set up the same way, I like the bigger hp.
Bob:
Based on the above spec, IMO, you want a RAM 5500HD or an F-550. The RAM officers more torque and higher HP than the Ford, but if you like Ford, it will be just fine. But to get to a 5,500lb pin I say you need one of these two trucks or you will have no weight headroom beyond the pin weight in the 3500HD or the current F-450 and you could exceed some other ratings I won't get into.
With the 5500HD or the F-550 you will be good to a 24,000lb trailer and a 6,000lb pin with a hauler bed, a big aux tank, plus tools and a lot of etc. You have to add a hauler bed because both these are CA (crew cab and axle only) trucks. Hauler beds are a really good idea regardless due to the truck bed rails to trailer pan clearance issues.
With either of these trucks I highly recommend a full air-ride suspension upgrade – at least on the rear or the solo ride will be “not too good.”
I’ve done the charts for these trucks and I believe those are good working numbers. You will need to get the max towing package to make this work and stay within all ratings.
I've got more info on the upfit needed for these two trucks but, IMO, you need to make sure of the trailer specs first. Pick the trailer, then the truck is the good rule many advise.
This is a point of discussion - I want 4-WD and have used it a lot. Others say you don't need it. But we travel a lot and I say get it if you can.Jack's turn.
Bill
Otherwise, I'd pretty much agree with Bill. In fact, I think I totally agree with him. And it is very important to do the hauler bed, or you ARE going to have issues. Of course, with those choices you have to do it...
Not sure why they would lower the HP on the bigger trucks, seems to defeat the purpose.
EPA and durability issues. All the CA (cab and axle only from the factory) trucks, the ones without pickup beds, with the exception of the Chevy / GM current issue, have reduced power engines. Makes for better emissions and longer engine life in commercial service which is where 99% of these CA trucks end up. The Chevy / GM 3500HD CA trucks used to have a power reduction but they discontinued that engine as of 2012 as I recall. Now they all have the same LML engine offering.
Thanks for all the info!
Roy