right now I have on the Fireplace, furnace, lights, frig, space heater, and TV. And of course there's the inverter. I calculate that at about 45 amps. I turn off the heater to use the microwave, induction cooktop, hair dryer... Well really when I use anything else... Coffee pot, toaster, etc.
is this how everyone else lives?
Lucky Mike said
01:39 PM Feb 4, 2014
Most if not all 50 amp service is divided into 2 main circuits coming into the coach and then split up again at the service panel.....so it is possible to overload one side without causing it on another.....50 amps is the total draw minus 20%...
basically you need to find out what outlets and loads are on which incoming legs.....
to figure that out....most 2 legged panels have 2 rows of breakers.....one row is one leg....the other is a leg , if the breakers are marked you can figure out your load simply by looking at what is involved in one leg (Row)!!
-- Edited by Lucky Mike on Tuesday 4th of February 2014 01:41:25 PM
Grams said
01:50 PM Feb 4, 2014
I have one row of breakers and one row of fuses.
LandL Partners said
01:55 PM Feb 4, 2014
What Mike said, but for us lay-women - it translates to we tripped the breaker (no fuses) when we had two space heaters plugged into the front half of the RV, but it was okay when we plugged one into the bedroom area and one out front. I found that I could run all the lights, fridge, tv, 1 heater and one major appliance out front - convection, microwave, toaster, coffee pot but when I tried the 2nd the breaker would trip. No problem (once we found the panel box :!) just had to turn flip the breaker back on and turn the heater off to run everything else.
Grams said
02:00 PM Feb 4, 2014
Maybe after this freezing weather, I'll test out "over loading" the breakers and try to figure out my system. Scary!!!!
Lucky Mike said
02:15 PM Feb 4, 2014
if you have the wiring Schematic to your coach you will be able to see the power leg designation for the breaker box.....normally there are no fuses for 110 operation (outlet/Appliance)
Bill and Linda said
02:22 PM Feb 4, 2014
As a rule of thumb, you probably won’t trip a circuit breaker on 50 amps unless:
Both air conditioners or heat pumps are running - the microwave is running and the hot water heater is on electric and it is heating water – until you plug in a hair dryer or an electric space heater.
Generally speaking the way RV’s are wired the loads are split between two 50 amp circuits coming into the rig on that one power cable going to the pedestal.(“50 amps” in RV speak is actually two 50 amp circuits )For example you will have one air conditioner on one circuit and if you have a second air conditioner it will be on the other circuit.They will also spit the microwave on one circuit and the hot water heater on the other.
When you look in the breaker box, notice there are two breakers tied together with the number “50” on them.That’s two 50 amp circuits.
Understanding that “50 amps” is actually two 50 amp circuits and “30 amps” is only one 30 amp circuit is one of the great: “OH! So, That’s How it Works!” in the RV world.Really not that hard once you know the secret.
Howard has a nice write up on this in his power section.
Glad to explain this more fully if anyone wants to know PM me.
Bill
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Tuesday 4th of February 2014 02:25:21 PM
cherylbrv said
02:24 PM Feb 4, 2014
Dumb question here, and possibly a bit off topic (apologies!).... is it necessary to run a fireplace and a furnace and a space heater at the same time? Does just one of them not do the job to heat the rig?
LandL Partners said
02:35 PM Feb 4, 2014
cherylbrv wrote:
Dumb question here, and possibly a bit off topic (apologies!).... is it necessary to run a fireplace and a furnace and a space heater at the same time? Does just one of them not do the job to heat the rig?
We were in VA when it was 4 degrees outside and snowing. Electric was paid for with the lot so we turned the propane furnace on the lowest setting and used 2 electric space heaters. I put an extra blanket on the bed and still wore two pairs of socks and long jonhs some mornings but it stayed warm enough inside that the furnace only kicked on a couple of times. I don't believe we have a 4 seasons unit so the floors stay cool and I could feel the draft from the windows.
Grams said
03:09 PM Feb 4, 2014
Bill. Thanks! I'll read Howard's article. Had NO idea I had two 50 amp circuits. I tripped the breaker ALL the time in our last trlr.
I think my main issue is that I want to use 99% of my power in the front (living room / kitchen area) outside the tank heaters, hot water heater and furnace.
Cheryl, I'm running my fireplace and 1 space heater to save on propane that the furnace requires. And YES all 3 are required to keep all space (including the basement!) at a very comfy 72 degrees in our freezing temperatures! We have free electricity here. Without space heater, I can keep it at 68 very easily (this is my mode when leaving RV. I do not leave the space heater plugged in when we are gone!). Temp Drops drastically in front area without fireplace.
The Bear II said
03:10 PM Feb 4, 2014
We can run everything at the same time except for the washer and dryer. Either the washer or dryer can be in use but not both.
Typically during the day in the summer we will have the A/C, ceiling fan, washer or dryer, TV & Sat Box, a PC, printer and Laptop, several overhead 12V lights (which means the converter is running), a crockpot or electric BBQ grill or microwave in use and not trip the breaker.
Bill and Linda said
03:18 PM Feb 4, 2014
Grams wrote:
Bill. Thanks! I'll read Howard's article. Had NO idea I had two 50 amp circuits. I tripped the breaker ALL the time in our last trlr.
Bet your last trailer was a 30 amp rig.A “50 amp” connection actually has 100 amps of power available, but in two 50 amp feeds.That’s why we say when you go from 30 amps to 50 amps your really going from 30 to 100.That why 50 “seems” so much more than 30 – because it is.
bjoyce said
03:32 PM Feb 4, 2014
You are very unlikely to trip the outside breaker with 50AMP, since it is really 100AMP of 120 volt. But, as it has been pointed out, you can trip inside breakers because you have overloaded them. I know people who have wired in plugs to their air conditioner circuits to run space heaters when the air conditioners are not running. This keeps the space heaters off the circuits that the microwave, toaster, computers, medical equipment, etc., are on.
RV manufacturers and home builders often save money by having as few GFCI circuits as possible. These are required near sinks and outside, the ones with "test/reset" on them (unless they are special circuit breakers in the breaker box). A friend found his entire 3 bedroom house had one 20AMP GCFI and it went to every bathroom, the kitchen sink, the laundry sink and outside. They had to coordinate running a hair dryer and the garbage disposal, with Christmas lights a difficult problem.
Grams said
03:43 PM Feb 4, 2014
Bill and Linda wrote:
Grams wrote:
Bill. Thanks! I'll read Howard's article. Had NO idea I had two 50 amp circuits. I tripped the breaker ALL the time in our last trlr.
Bet your last trailer was a 30 amp rig.A “50 amp” connection actually has 100 amps of power available, but in two 50 amp feeds.That’s why we say when you go from 30 amps to 50 amps your really going from 30 to 100.That why 50 “seems” so much more than 30 – because it is.
it was a 50 amp but staying with friends with only 30 amp service. The trlr was sold to us as "operable" on 30 OR 50. We are newbies! needless to say, we had several issues with trlr and traded it on a new 5th wheel After about 6 months.
bjoyce said
04:03 PM Feb 4, 2014
Yup, a 50 amp RV cannot be run on less than 50 amp service without compromises. When we are on 30 amp we act like we only have one air conditioner and use the propane side of the hot water heater when we run the toaster, microwave, washer/dryer and any other high amp appliance. On 20 amp we can only run one high amp appliance in total, which includes the air conditioner. We have also used a cheater box to hook up to two 20 amp, two 30 amp or a combination of 20 amp and 30 amp, all of which have their compromises and issues.
I know a lot of people are allergic to arithmetic, but to manage on less than 50 amps, it really helps.
Bill and Linda said
04:16 PM Feb 4, 2014
Indeed.Since the requirement by the NEC for GRI breakers on all 20 amp circuits with plugs outside (or near water) the cheater adapter will trip the GFI breaker.I gave up having one due to most all parks I’ve visited having GFI’s on the 20 amp receptacle these days. At least in the lower 48. While there are ways around this they are not particularly safe.
BTW, we’re the same, Bill, on 30 amps.I even put the fridge over on gas as it saves about 5 amps.That’s almost enough for almost all the entertainment stuff.The amp readout on the Progressive Industries EMS lets us know “how goes it” as to loads.That is very helpful on 30 amps.As we know, all 30 amp circuits are not created equal as to the voltage and amps actually available.
Barbaraok said
05:01 PM Feb 4, 2014
On 50 amps we can run everything we have - provided that we don't overload an individual circuit. But the A/Cs are on separate circuits, as is the w/d, the microwave, water heater, etc. Never have had a problem.
On 30 amps, we do a lot of what Bill does, with the exception that we leave the water heater on electric, as well as the fridge. If I am going to use the microwave, then I make sure the w/d isn't running. Actually, with the exception of just being careful about not using 2 high amp appliances at the same time, we live just the same.
Barb
Grams said
06:50 AM Mar 3, 2014
Our dealership sent a service tech down to discuss the electricity with me. Explained what items on which 50 amp circuit. Looks like 90% of what I want to use during day is on the living area circuit! All of my GFI outlets (every single one in my kitchen and the bath), microwave, etc on same. They did put fireplace on bedroom circuit with converter and amps for 2 things we didn't get ... W/D and on board generator. So spare power there! They couldn't tell which circuits the regular outlets are on, so After we get thru this freezing weather I'll test them out.
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
07:07 AM Mar 3, 2014
Grams- what brand RV do you have?
Grams said
07:14 AM Mar 3, 2014
We bought the Columbus 320RS by Palomino manufactured by Forest River. Absolutely love it!
Alie and Jims Carrilite said
07:19 AM Mar 3, 2014
The way they wire these things makes it difficult to change things around. Its not impossible but I wouldn't want to tackle it.
We have about the opposite situation as the kitchen outlets are separate from the rest, but we only have 2 living room outlets to plug all the accessories into- phones, computers, lamps, etc.
Grams said
07:28 AM Mar 3, 2014
I have 5 outlets in living room, and 3 in kitchen. Bedroom only has 2. Could use 1 more beside bed. And we have a phone charging station on end of one of the overhead kitchen cabinet. It's very handy.
bjoyce said
09:19 AM Mar 3, 2014
A friend, who is way more handy than I, put plugs on the ceiling that were wired into the air conditioner circuits. He used them for electric space heaters.
Grams: A friend found his brand new 3 bedroom house wired the same way. One 20AMP GFCI circuit for all bathrooms, the kitchen and the outside. I know it doesn't help, but it is not just RVs that get wired cheaply.
I'm paranoid about blowing fuses!
right now I have on the Fireplace, furnace, lights, frig, space heater, and TV. And of course there's the inverter. I calculate that at about 45 amps. I turn off the heater to use the microwave, induction cooktop, hair dryer... Well really when I use anything else... Coffee pot, toaster, etc.
is this how everyone else lives?
Most if not all 50 amp service is divided into 2 main circuits coming into the coach and then split up again at the service panel.....so it is possible to overload one side without causing it on another.....50 amps is the total draw minus 20%...
basically you need to find out what outlets and loads are on which incoming legs.....
to figure that out....most 2 legged panels have 2 rows of breakers.....one row is one leg....the other is a leg , if the breakers are marked you can figure out your load simply by looking at what is involved in one leg (Row)!!
-- Edited by Lucky Mike on Tuesday 4th of February 2014 01:41:25 PM
What Mike said, but for us lay-women - it translates to we tripped the breaker (no fuses) when we had two space heaters plugged into the front half of the RV, but it was okay when we plugged one into the bedroom area and one out front. I found that I could run all the lights, fridge, tv, 1 heater and one major appliance out front - convection, microwave, toaster, coffee pot but when I tried the 2nd the breaker would trip. No problem (once we found the panel box :!) just had to turn flip the breaker back on and turn the heater off to run everything else.
As a rule of thumb, you probably won’t trip a circuit breaker on 50 amps unless:
Both air conditioners or heat pumps are running - the microwave is running and the hot water heater is on electric and it is heating water – until you plug in a hair dryer or an electric space heater.
Generally speaking the way RV’s are wired the loads are split between two 50 amp circuits coming into the rig on that one power cable going to the pedestal. (“50 amps” in RV speak is actually two 50 amp circuits ) For example you will have one air conditioner on one circuit and if you have a second air conditioner it will be on the other circuit. They will also spit the microwave on one circuit and the hot water heater on the other.
When you look in the breaker box, notice there are two breakers tied together with the number “50” on them. That’s two 50 amp circuits.
Understanding that “50 amps” is actually two 50 amp circuits and “30 amps” is only one 30 amp circuit is one of the great: “OH! So, That’s How it Works!” in the RV world. Really not that hard once you know the secret.
Howard has a nice write up on this in his power section.
Glad to explain this more fully if anyone wants to know PM me.
Bill
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Tuesday 4th of February 2014 02:25:21 PM
We were in VA when it was 4 degrees outside and snowing. Electric was paid for with the lot so we turned the propane furnace on the lowest setting and used 2 electric space heaters. I put an extra blanket on the bed and still wore two pairs of socks and long jonhs some mornings but it stayed warm enough inside that the furnace only kicked on a couple of times. I don't believe we have a 4 seasons unit so the floors stay cool and I could feel the draft from the windows.
I think my main issue is that I want to use 99% of my power in the front (living room / kitchen area) outside the tank heaters, hot water heater and furnace.
Cheryl, I'm running my fireplace and 1 space heater to save on propane that the furnace requires. And YES all 3 are required to keep all space (including the basement!) at a very comfy 72 degrees in our freezing temperatures! We have free electricity here. Without space heater, I can keep it at 68 very easily (this is my mode when leaving RV. I do not leave the space heater plugged in when we are gone!). Temp Drops drastically in front area without fireplace.
Typically during the day in the summer we will have the A/C, ceiling fan, washer or dryer, TV & Sat Box, a PC, printer and Laptop, several overhead 12V lights (which means the converter is running), a crockpot or electric BBQ grill or microwave in use and not trip the breaker.
Bet your last trailer was a 30 amp rig. A “50 amp” connection actually has 100 amps of power available, but in two 50 amp feeds. That’s why we say when you go from 30 amps to 50 amps your really going from 30 to 100. That why 50 “seems” so much more than 30 – because it is.
RV manufacturers and home builders often save money by having as few GFCI circuits as possible. These are required near sinks and outside, the ones with "test/reset" on them (unless they are special circuit breakers in the breaker box). A friend found his entire 3 bedroom house had one 20AMP GCFI and it went to every bathroom, the kitchen sink, the laundry sink and outside. They had to coordinate running a hair dryer and the garbage disposal, with Christmas lights a difficult problem.
it was a 50 amp but staying with friends with only 30 amp service. The trlr was sold to us as "operable" on 30 OR 50. We are newbies! needless to say, we had several issues with trlr and traded it on a new 5th wheel After about 6 months.
I know a lot of people are allergic to arithmetic, but to manage on less than 50 amps, it really helps.
Indeed. Since the requirement by the NEC for GRI breakers on all 20 amp circuits with plugs outside (or near water) the cheater adapter will trip the GFI breaker. I gave up having one due to most all parks I’ve visited having GFI’s on the 20 amp receptacle these days. At least in the lower 48. While there are ways around this they are not particularly safe.
BTW, we’re the same, Bill, on 30 amps. I even put the fridge over on gas as it saves about 5 amps. That’s almost enough for almost all the entertainment stuff. The amp readout on the Progressive Industries EMS lets us know “how goes it” as to loads. That is very helpful on 30 amps. As we know, all 30 amp circuits are not created equal as to the voltage and amps actually available.
On 30 amps, we do a lot of what Bill does, with the exception that we leave the water heater on electric, as well as the fridge. If I am going to use the microwave, then I make sure the w/d isn't running. Actually, with the exception of just being careful about not using 2 high amp appliances at the same time, we live just the same.
Barb
We have about the opposite situation as the kitchen outlets are separate from the rest, but we only have 2 living room outlets to plug all the accessories into- phones, computers, lamps, etc.
Grams: A friend found his brand new 3 bedroom house wired the same way. One 20AMP GFCI circuit for all bathrooms, the kitchen and the outside. I know it doesn't help, but it is not just RVs that get wired cheaply.