In recent Journal entries, I've mentioned that Linda & I have found some property in southern Florida that we believe would be great for an RV Park. We've had some interest among the RV-Dreams Community in the idea of a Co-Op park, so we are now trying to see how much interest there really is.
So, if you think you might be interested, please read through our recent Journal entry: More About An RV Park Co-Op
In that entry, you will find a link to a survey. If, after reading the Journal entry, you think you might be interested, please complete the survey. We feel it is important to read through that entry before completing the survey, so that's why I don't have a direct link to the survey here.
Unfortunately, it's way too early in the process to put out details that can be seen by the general public. In the wrong hands, the information could result in the loss of the opportunity.
I know folks will have a lot of questions, most of which I won't be able to answer here. But we will provide additional details to those that complete the survey if there is enough interest to go to the next step.
Just wanted to make sure our Forum members are aware of the possibility. :)
Lucky Mike said
07:42 AM Jan 11, 2014
I'm not sure if it's to early for a reply.....but I'm interested!
mpierce said
08:23 AM Jan 11, 2014
Read what Howard wrote. VERY good article. Covers a lot of bases. Looking forward to discussing in depth at the Boondockers Rally. Would the seller be OK with a small deposit for an option to buy for a year or so? Just to be sure it would not be sold out under?
I have been involved in Coops all my life, and helped start one up. LOTS of work, but can be very worthwhile. However, if you want it to work, need the INVOLVEMENT of a lot of the members.
SnowGypsy said
09:17 AM Jan 11, 2014
I read the articles and anyone that wants an understanding of co-ops and/or the 55 & over deal would find a good explanation of all the possibilities involved and all the complexities. Great articles!
Terry and Jo said
09:55 AM Jan 11, 2014
Interesting articles, but I suspect that Jo and I would not ever be interested. Since a group like Escapees have stopped developing new ones, I'd be a little concerned that a "smaller interest group" would have much success with their endeavor. We certainly don't have the ready cash to invest and Florida is just way too far from where our family is located. When we actually do settle down and no longer pursue the traveling aspect of RV'ing, it will be near family.
Terry
jswharton said
10:26 AM Jan 11, 2014
Nice! good information, Fran and I are interested . . . . .
Bill and Linda said
10:52 AM Jan 11, 2014
We’ve filled out the survey – sign us up.
We’ve been thinking this would / should happen with the RV-Dreams Community for what – about 5 years.Let’s see if we can make this happen.
Airstream has been doing this for like 40+ years and those co-ops work pretty much as was outlined by Howard. The ones we have been associated with work quite well.
Edited to add, Southern Florida is a great place to spend the winter. We've been there for many years.
Bill and Linda
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Saturday 11th of January 2014 10:54:29 AM
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Saturday 11th of January 2014 10:57:18 AM
azrving said
11:06 AM Jan 11, 2014
I would be interested but only if it was located in the southwest. We escaped the east coast 8 years ago and have vowed to never return except to visit family occasionally. Don't like humidity, mosquitoes, sand, etc. and Florida has all of that.
My wife still owns 100 acres of property in SC, it's a couple of miles off of I-26 and about 18 miles from Columbia (plenty of road frontage). We would love to sell it so if you decide to open RV Dreams Co-Op #2 give us a call.
WestWardHo said
04:10 PM Jan 11, 2014
We completed the survey. Our feeling is anything Howard and Linda do will be done right and we love the friendly community we've found here. Time frame would be interesting to hear.
We just got on the list at Jojoba Hills SKP Resort for a lot and we remember H & L stayed here last year. We missed the last available lot by just an hour so we're now #8 on the waiting list. 3 sites alone were sold this week. With industry RV unit sales reported up about 30% we feel the demand will just grow.
Sherry
edit: darn punctuation!
2nd edit: over age 55 wasn't even on our list of priorities. That would leave out H & L, Cherie & Chris and too many other great RV-Dreamers!
-- Edited by WestWardHo on Saturday 11th of January 2014 04:11:55 PM
-- Edited by WestWardHo on Saturday 11th of January 2014 06:45:56 PM
charles said
04:32 PM Jan 11, 2014
First off, I think that it is a good idea, starting point.
I filled in the survey. However, we have a great WINTER home on the bayou in south Louisiana but are seeking a SUMMER spot not unlike what you plan for Fla.
Any suggestions anyone? Mountains preferred.
CCC
Camper Chronicles said
05:41 PM Jan 11, 2014
It would not be a good fit for us for the following reasons
1. We are too young at 45 and 47 to qualify for a 55 plus community.
2. We need to work some every year until we hit 65 so to invest in a property (even with rental possibilities) that we could spend so little time in wouldn't make a lot of sense for us personally
3. We also have spent a considerable amount of time on the east coast and in Florida and we want to explore the west. We may feel differently after we've seen everything we want to see and decide to be closer to family but that decision will largely be based on where our grandchildren are and it's thankfully a little too early for that :)
manycats said
07:13 PM Jan 11, 2014
Hot, humid, muggy, buggy Florida, where I lived for many years, would not be my choice. I would definitely be interested in that Co-op park but only if I could rent my lot most of the year and only be in the area for maybe 10% of the time. When I lived in Miami I would test the heater one day in Winter and then turn the AC back on for the rest of the year. The only way to be comfortable there is to spend your life under water - beach, pool or shower, take your pick.
kb0zke said
08:02 PM Jan 11, 2014
It sounds like there is considerable interest in co-ops in various parts of the country. I've always thought that the Ozarks would be a good place, either here on the Missouri side or in Arkansas, but I wouldn't know how to go about it. We have 10 acres, but it is mainly pasture, so no shade. NOT a good thing for a park. There is land available here in Dallas County that might be suitable for a park, but I don't have either the knowledge or the money to do it.
Beth and Grady said
09:23 PM Jan 11, 2014
Thank you Howard for the wealth of information concerning co-ops. We have submitted our survey and are hoping everything works out and the cost enables us to pull the trigger. Excited to be a part of this endeavor! :)
Technomadia said
10:15 PM Jan 11, 2014
The concept of a network of co-op parks amongst a like minded community has been fascinating to me. So I'm interested in watching from afar to see how this comes together.
At this point, I'm no where near ready to grow that much of roots myself. Only been on the road for 8 years and just turned 40.... still got lots of adventures ahead of me without ties to any location (and south Florida not being on my list of contending locations). But at some point in the future, I see a model like this being a great option at least seasonally.
- Cherie
Frac999 said
11:26 PM Jan 11, 2014
azrving wrote:
I would be interested but only if it was located in the southwest. We escaped the east coast 8 years ago and have vowed to never return except to visit family occasionally. Don't like humidity, mosquitoes, sand, etc. and Florida has all of that.
My wife still owns 100 acres of property in SC, it's a couple of miles off of I-26 and about 18 miles from Columbia (plenty of road frontage). We would love to sell it so if you decide to open RV Dreams Co-Op #2 give us a call.
I agree with this one, would be nice in the southwest. It very interesting and would be interested also.
Hdrider said
06:05 AM Jan 12, 2014
After staying at a couple co-ops we have certainly pondered the idea. Especially knowing that getting on a waiting list would still mean a few years down the road before it ever really happened. In fact we almost put our names on a list last winter but didn’t.
We have only been on the road a little over a year so it’s a little soon for us to pick one spot when there are so many areas to see in order to make an intelligent decision on just where that spot would be.
At this point I would have to say we also would be more interested in a spot if it were in the southwest. Mainly because what ties we do have are on the west coast. And from the southwest it would be more centrally located, I guess for lack of word’s, to head out from in any direction when the weather turned too hot to hang around.
Bill and Linda said
06:26 AM Jan 12, 2014
WestWardHo wrote:
2nd edit: over age 55 wasn't even on our list of priorities. That would leave out H & L, Cherie & Chris and too many other great RV-Dreamers!
-- Edited by WestWardHo on Saturday 11th of January 2014 04:11:55 PM
-- Edited by WestWardHo on Saturday 11th of January 2014 06:45:56 PM
Actually, not necessarily.When you go through Howard’s explanation it it is quite possible to have some people under 55 and it still be an “adult” community. "Visiting" grandchildren are also permitted under "55 and over" designations as well. Howard and Linda can be there as well as others. Just commenting.
Bill
SnowGypsy said
06:50 AM Jan 12, 2014
Again, anyone that hasn't read the articles really should. Do you know what the 80/20 rule is? Read them and find out. I was looking at a park in AZ that was supposed to have deeded RV lots. The website was down and when it came up, they had decided to go with a co-op instead which had rules that blocked us every which way with the requirements and my husband and I are over 55. Many of the them limit the site to 2 adults, have specifics beyond age requirements on the RV and many others have pet restrictions so, poo poo on them. With our limits, boondocking most of the time and public facilities look like what we'll be doing. AZ can be tough if you can't get in to 55+ or at least it was when we were there. Some have the 80/20 rule but choose not to mention it. Then, if they didn't want us when we were not 55+............... I actually don't want to live in a community that isn't diverse in every way possible so....................
Jack Mayer said
07:28 AM Jan 12, 2014
The first thing I look at for a community I would want to invest in is if they allow children . If they do - I move on. Yes, I'm discriminating. I prefer an all adult community. Mainly because the majority (I made up that number based on experience) of parents these days do not parent - they simply raise "feral" children. No issue with VISITING children, as long as it is limited time. As far as diversity goes - an RV community is typically not very diverse. Almost by definition, since RVers tend to have a certain profile.
Hdrider said
08:00 AM Jan 12, 2014
Jack Mayer wrote:
The first thing I look at for a community I would want to invest in is if they allow children . If they do - I move on. Yes, I'm discriminating. I prefer an all adult community. Mainly because the majority (I made up that number based on experience) of parents these days do not parent - they simply raise "feral" children. No issue with VISITING children, as long as it is limited time. As far as diversity goes - an RV community is typically not very diverse. Almost by definition, since RVers tend to have a certain profile.
LOL!!! We have never met Jack but for some reason I think we would get along great.
Jake62 said
08:12 AM Jan 12, 2014
Howard
Great job in describing what comprises styles/structures of the various "Co-Op" structures out there. My in-laws are farmers in Kansas and participate in a "Co-Op" for farmers.
I understand the advantages/disadvantages you outline; however, we won't hit the road until late 2105 and want to see the entire country. The downside to investing in a Co-Op at this point of our life is that we have no idea what State we want to eventually settle in. It may not be a fair comparison; however, I don't think this is any different than investing in some land/house/property right now, say in FL, TX, TN, for our eventual use as a Home Base in the future. The downside to doing so now is that we really don't know if we want to end up in any of those States. I understand you can "rent out" your space or make money on it, but I could do the same on a S&B, with hopefully better appreciation than an RV Co-Op.
I'm sure this will certainly appeal to many on your forum, but moreover to those who have decided that "Florida" is their end-goal or permanent Home Base. At this time, it's simply not the right timing for us to entertain this opportunity; however, if we were, I can tell that we would be comfortable knowing that you're someone who has the legal background to lead this type of endeavor.
A totally different topic is a "55 & Over" community. Having lived in Tucson for 14-years, we basically decided against living in one of these communities, which are prolific in Arizona. We have our reasons, but we want to be in a community which is diverse in age and not simply around those of similar age. We enjoy building into the lives of young children, teenagers, and college-age adults who would comprise the community. This is a personal decision we've made, but I understand why others choose to be in only 55 & Over communities.
-- Edited by Jake62 on Sunday 12th of January 2014 08:19:11 AM
mpierce said
09:31 AM Jan 12, 2014
Jake62 wrote:
Howard
Great job in describing what comprises styles/structures of the various "Co-Op" structures out there. My in-laws are farmers in Kansas and participate in a "Co-Op" for farmers.
I understand the advantages/disadvantages you outline; however, we won't hit the road until late 2105 and want to see the entire country.
-- Edited by Jake62 on Sunday 12th of January 2014 08:19:11 AM
we won't hit the road until late 2105
2105! Wow! You must be really young! LOL
SnowGypsy said
09:43 AM Jan 12, 2014
Jack: "Almost by definition, since RVers tend to have a certain profile." Well, if this were Jeopardy, I guess the question would be "What is stereotyping?" For those that segregate themselves to certain types of RV communities, I am sure that this is the reality but for others, it really isn't and the RV world is changing with the lose of those investments that tanked and the decrease in companies offering pensions. Since I don't want to be banned here, I won't elaborate on people who would be uncomfortable with us being a neighbor because we have an adult son with Down syndrome that travels with us. When we moved into AZ, we found an RV park that offered diversity and didn't cherry pick. The older people there were always delighted to visit with our children and our dog over 20 lb. x 4 and I often found a neighbor outside petting our dog when she was tied under the awning. I think though that ultimately, it is good that people who are uncomfortable with diversity are able to segregate themselves from people like us! And, yes, I probably shouldn't have posted this but, this is who I am.
bjoyce said
11:03 AM Jan 12, 2014
SnowGypsy: I find a huge lack of diversity in those who live in trailer parks and campgrounds, especially those of working age. Less so in the retired and fulltimer RV communities, but still there is a lack of racial diversity that makes me uncomfortable. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest (PNW), where Asians are well integrated and so are a lot of Blacks and Hispanics. I don't encounter that even in campgrounds in the PNW, almost everyone is white. In the fulltimer and retired RV world I encounter many white collar people mixed with blue collar, but it is very rare to encounter an engineer, doctor, businessperson, or other more white collar profession living in a trailer park or campground. Not that the people in these places, and many of their children, are bad people, but I don't find them that diverse.
I know diverse. I worked with people from every inhabited continent, of about every race, sex, religion and sexual orientation. I made friends with and enjoyed them all. I have had to bite my tongue over the misconceptions about racial groups and unfortunately common prejudice that I encounter all the time in the RVer community. It is sad. People are missing so much by taking such a limited and simple view of others.
SnowGypsy said
11:35 AM Jan 12, 2014
Thank you byjoyce. We have been moving around for over 30 years and camping longer. I grew in MI where the underground railroad ended so I ended up "color-blind" and brought my kids up that way. I also grew up in a tiny village of about 75 people where the older people were respected and called by all "Grandma Wilson", "Grandpa Wilson", "Grandma Sayer", etc. and they loved children. I was in the AF and worked for 8 years on an Army base, my older son (just made LTC!) has an wife of Asian decent so I have been around. As for children, I can understand some not wanting them around but sometimes there is an attitude that comes across with that. But, the grand kids, which from my experience aren't "all that", are always another story. We were in the south and I made friends with the RV maintenance man who was black that came in to do "house calls", this is the best way to keep everyone else at bay. We were there 2 years and I learned a lot about the attitudes.............. I do think that minorities generally avoid situations where they aren't accepted and that includes people with disabilities, certain ages, people with children, religious affiliations where such is obvious, etc. Life is too short to be where you aren't wanted.
What I see though that is good in the discussion is that a co-op would never work for us. Seriously, our bodies may be over 55+ but our in our heads, we are "Forever Young"!
Edit: Our son is 27 years old but since he has DS, he looks like he is about 12 or 13 years and functions about like a 6 year old, so he comes across as being a child. I am sure that would give us grief.
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Sunday 12th of January 2014 12:13:53 PM
GENECOP said
11:37 AM Jan 12, 2014
In the fulltimer and retired RV world I encounter many white collar people mixed with blue collar, but it is very rare to encounter an engineer, doctor, businessperson, or other more white collar profession living in a trailer park or campground.
Those people don't know what they are missing....it's unfortunate that many of the "WHITE COLLAR" types get stuck on living the so called Dream.....I lived and worked surrounded by that type for many years, STUCK is the best way I can describe them......BTW, I almost got stuck myself!!!!
southernvagabond said
12:38 PM Jan 12, 2014
I agree with ManyCats. We grew up in Fl and endured heat, humidity, mosquitos, lovebugs, hurricanes & the farther south you go lots of congestion. I 'm talking about heat & humidity so bad it feels like it is sucking the air right out of your lungs.
I like the idea of a co-op but we're not ready for that yet since we need to get our last child through school before we will head out.
We do appreciate all the research Howard has done on this & other subjects.
bjoyce said
01:36 PM Jan 12, 2014
Farmers, people who own cabinet shops and such do not live in campgrounds either, but some do when they retire. These people don't live in condos or closely packed houses, either, while working. I do encounter all manner of career types who retire and go on the road, your best buddy might have a Phd in engineering, or worked as a car mechanic all their life, but you might not know until it comes up in conversation. I am especially happy when I encounter someone culturally or ethnically different, that is enjoying the RV lifestyle.
We have many happy friends who own co-op lots, or own RV lots in Texas, Washington, Wyoming, Florida, Alabama and Arizona. My mother-in-law has two Escapees co-op lots, one in Chimacum WA and the other in Casa Grande AZ. We know from their experience what owning such a lot means, and it is not for us. Florida is out for us, our family is all on the West Coast. Luckily we have saved off the money for our exit plan and can make the exit decision when it is forced on us.
Florida from December through March is normally a nice place, not so hot, no hurricanes and few bugs.
azrving said
01:57 PM Jan 12, 2014
SnowGypsy wrote:
Again, anyone that hasn't read the articles really should. Do you know what the 80/20 rule is? Read them and find out. I was looking at a park in AZ that was supposed to have deeded RV lots. The website was down and when it came up, they had decided to go with a co-op instead which had rules that blocked us every which way with the requirements and my husband and I are over 55. Many of the them limit the site to 2 adults, have specifics beyond age requirements on the RV and many others have pet restrictions so, poo poo on them. With our limits, boondocking most of the time and public facilities look like what we'll be doing. AZ can be tough if you can't get in to 55+ or at least it was when we were there. Some have the 80/20 rule but choose not to mention it. Then, if they didn't want us when we were not 55+............... I actually don't want to live in a community that isn't diverse in every way possible so....................
Amen!! I totally agree with you on the 55+.....and I also think the more rules/guidelines/restrictions you have in place, the less desirable the RV community becomes. I would rather be on a couple of acres in the middle of nowhere than have everyone in the park critiquing every move I make.
Trix said
02:05 PM Jan 12, 2014
Filled out my survey :)
-- Edited by Trix on Sunday 12th of January 2014 03:09:48 PM
azrving said
02:18 PM Jan 12, 2014
Jack Mayer wrote:
The first thing I look at for a community I would want to invest in is if they allow children . If they do - I move on. Yes, I'm discriminating. I prefer an all adult community. Mainly because the majority (I made up that number based on experience) of parents these days do not parent - they simply raise "feral" children. No issue with VISITING children, as long as it is limited time. As far as diversity goes - an RV community is typically not very diverse. Almost by definition, since RVers tend to have a certain profile.
We raised 4 children (none of them feral) that absolutely loved the camping lifestyle. We never had a ton of money and most hotels and motels wouldn't allow 6 individuals in one room so we decided to invest in a small travel trailer and our family vacations were spent camping. Now most of the children are out of the house and don't really want to go camping with us old folk's anymore.LOL
In all our years of camping we never had a campground host, park owner, neighbor, etc. complain about our children. We always taught them to treat other people's belongings the same as their own and I made sure they respected other camper's space too. I can honestly say we have never had a serious issue with children in any campground we have stayed at. The only people that have annoyed us were the "feral" adults or the grumpy old couple that snarls every time you walk or ride your bike by their site. Camping to me should be diverse and I would hope that Howard and Linda wouldn't discriminate when it come to kids (if they decide to go for the CO-OP). There are already enough of the "Adult Communities" out there, we don't need anymore of those. I respect your opinion but I totally disagree with it.
Hey Terry,
Sorry if I was one of those getting a little off topic.
I did read Howard's RV Park Co-Ops What is a Co-Op? and as usual Howard did an awesome job explaining the positive and negatives of being in a Co-Op. It doesn't seem like a good fit for us at this time, I don't like a bunch of restrictions/rules. I think everyone knows how I feel about the 55+ restriction. That being said, if Howard and Linda were to ever expand into the Southwest we may be on board because we know it would be run properly.
Co-Op is a lot like an HOA, you have to ask permission or get approval to make improvements, there may be restrictions on the number of people allowed to stay onsite, types of vehicles, age of vehicles, etc. So you actually don't own the lot because you aren't able to use it as you see fit. There are also restrictions on the sale of the lot (usually) and sometimes you can't even profit even though most require a substantial investment. I'm sure there would be monthly dues put in place to cover maintenance of the park too. We looked at a Co-Op in Georgia that wouldn't even allow you to stay on your RV lot all year round....what's up with that? If you own it you should be able to stay there.
Bottom line the Co-Op is only as good as the people that run it and finding a large group of like minded people will be very difficult.
When we get a little older a Co-Op may work out great, we could have one up north for summer and one down south for the winter months. Just not right for us at this stage of the game.
Howard,
Thank you for taking the time to post all of the info about Co-Ops.
-- Edited by azrving on Sunday 12th of January 2014 05:42:03 PM
Jake62 said
02:21 PM Jan 12, 2014
mpierce wrote:
Jake62 wrote:
Howard
Great job in describing what comprises styles/structures of the various "Co-Op" structures out there. My in-laws are farmers in Kansas and participate in a "Co-Op" for farmers.
I understand the advantages/disadvantages you outline; however, we won't hit the road until late 2105 and want to see the entire country.
-- Edited by Jake62 on Sunday 12th of January 2014 08:19:11 AM
we won't hit the road until late 2105
2105! Wow! You must be really young! LOL
Ha :) Yes ... 2015, but maybe the great-great-grandkids (when they come along) will be interested in hitting the road in 2105!
Terry and Jo said
02:56 PM Jan 12, 2014
We are in danger of straying off the original topic here. So, please keep the comments closer to that. Especially since Howard and Linda may be monitoring this one to gauge what others think of the RV co-op idea. And, if anyone has read Howard's suggestions in the upper part of the forums, he really doesn't like seeing threads get way off topic.
Terry
Lynn and Ed said
03:18 PM Jan 12, 2014
As soon to be full timers, we know that we will be spending Winters somewhere in the southern tier of the United States. It is very likely that Florida will be at the top of our list, to spend a few months. So we are interested to know more. Further specifics will be in our survey reply.
BiggarView said
06:03 PM Jan 12, 2014
While the idea of being part of an RV-Dreams Co-op park has merits, Howard's RV-D page on this is excellent, and since we are so far away from a date that we'd serious look into participating, our interest is strictly financial. Our vision has to be long term in this regard. If we were planning an exit that included plopping down somewhere such as this we'd like to investigate initial costs, ongoing expenses and ways to have an unused site(by us till such time as we were ready to occupy it) pay for itself in the meantime. People we know wanted a large sailboat for their retirement and purchased one about 5 years before they retired and chartered it out to pay for it and had money in the bank come retirement to refurbish the craft before they took possession for themselves. This would be the angle we'd be interested in a Co-op park and site. I don't know if the places that have RV lots are a similar concept to a Co-op but they would be also under consideration.
Sure, we'd like to be part a community of friendly, civil minded people who care, support and respect each other but that quality would be better determined nearer to the time of actually considering/moving there. Family needs, available healthcare etc. need to be rightfully considered. Communities change and evolve constantly. Developers or industry could determine the area worthy of their interest.... so many other factors can change with time.
In sum, we'd be interested but the devil is in the details. On that, we'll wait for further info if/when it becomes available. I have no doubt that there is sufficient interest and if Howard and Linda wish to procede with it, I say more power to them. It may or may not be right for everyone but we'll keep an open mind. It has certainly been an interesting thread. Now, we'll go fill in their survey.
WendysPhotos said
06:19 PM Jan 12, 2014
We haven't even hit the road yet, so a co-op is a not even on our radar. That said I think that if people wanted to possibly do it like a time-share co-op that would cover some of the things I see listed here.
What I mean is to have a park that is divided into two areas. Long term and then a basic campground area. Let people not in the co-op rent spots just like they would in a campground for say up to 2 weeks. All the money that is generated from that would go into the general fund to maintain the park. Then the long term area is where people own a lot, but if they are not going to be there it can be rented out to other people who want to stay 1-12 months. Then the rent for that lot goes to the owner with say 25% taken off the top to help offset the maintenance, park fees etc. People who's lots are rented out can choose to take the profits in a payment or bank it for when they want to permanently live there to cover their fees. This would keep a lot of the cost down for individuals. Also co-op owners could cycle through and put in a month here or there work camping to help maintain it.
On the rules thing: Rules for any co-op should be fair to all and agreed upon by all. Instead of a 55+ resort just say an all adult resort. As far as units in the park make general rules about cleanliness, but I do not see why a 20 year old unit should be banned as long as it is nice and kept up. If people want a storage shed etc. pick a few styles and brands that look nice, vote on them and then people can have storage. It is doable it just needs to be a democracy.
As for the place. FL I plan to visit but long term I don't know plus there are so many already. I think a more moderate climate would fit with a long term plan. If you want a beach with a lot less land cost, Long Beach MS. is awesome, or along the Texas coast. Or if going for a warmer climate desert SW, so at least you do not have the humidity and fist sized bugs.
My 2 cents.
Jack Mayer said
06:27 PM Jan 12, 2014
When I said children in my comment I mean underage children.....not adult children. I'm not looking for a 55+ community....younger is fine with me, in fact to be encouraged. I just don't care for very young children in the community. And as far as diversity goes - I'm all for it - I'm just pointing out it is rare in RV communities.
PIEERE said
11:01 AM Jan 13, 2014
I don't have much of a comment; other than to say finances make it non-feaseable for me! I read the article and you done a great job of explaining it. PIEERE
charles said
12:07 PM Jan 13, 2014
Howard,
When I was interested in purchasing an AIRSTREAM I looked into their parks as well. Here are a couple of links and one can access the other parks from these. Some ideas on what they do and what has worked. I like the ones where erecting a shelter for the RV is permitted and several allow living quarters as well. I personally like the idea of both the shelter and attached living quarters.
Is this just going to be for older retired couples or are families welcome?
NWescapee said
04:15 PM Jan 15, 2014
I think the idea of a co-op is interesting, however, for us Florida holds very little interest due to family locations. We have talked about the possibility in the future as part of our exit plan when we're ready to settle down somewhere. We've gone on the road with an attitude of trying to figure out what location(s) we might want to eventually settle in if the time comes that we either can't be on the road or are ready to start putting down minimal roots.
Love to see this one work and then see where the second RV Dreamers co-op might be in the future. One thing that I like about a H&L designed co-op is that I'm assuming they won't build it so that the sites are almost on top of each other since H&L's blog indicate they much prefer larger sites and a bit of room, privacy and space between sites. We avoid RV Parks as much as possible because of the "claustrophobic" feel so that is definitely something we would really want to understand in any place we were putting down roots.
Barbaraok said
12:17 PM Jan 18, 2014
While it sounds great, there is a problem that develops as the original members age and develop small groups in the park and become hostile towards younger, still mobile potential members. We took our names off of the list at a SKP Co-Op for just that reason. Also infrastructure needs to be maintained but most people won't want to pay what is needed to maintain it.
Barb
Jack Mayer said
03:44 PM Jan 20, 2014
While what Barb says is true, a good park environment negates most of that. For example, although not a coop the North Ranch Escapees park has an original "generation" of owners, and a more recent "generation" of younger owners. Things still get done. And the costs are kept in control BECAUSE people contribute their time. The key to success is that people volunteer their time and welcome new people. Cliques will always be a factor, but that can be managed.
Bill and Linda said
03:56 PM Jan 20, 2014
The co-op park that my parents began in Florida with others in the 70’s is still going strong. The Park looks still great, we were there last week. The “younger” generation, actually now on generation number 3 or more, works quite well with the “originals.”Costs have been kept in line and the renovations continue.After like 40 years things do need upgrading and they have been.
It all depends on the people and the park “culture.”
Bill
leno said
04:22 PM Jan 20, 2014
Sounds great and if I could afford it, I would be in.. Maybe between now and then, I will win the lottery!
Mark V said
02:28 PM Jan 21, 2014
I'm completely ignorant about co-ops and would appreciate a little enlightenment. I assume that you begin by purchasing a lot, but what, if any, are the residency requirements? Is it a place that can be lived in for a few months a year, and then rented out for the remainder?
Jack Mayer said
01:07 PM Jan 23, 2014
Mark V wrote:
I'm completely ignorant about co-ops and would appreciate a little enlightenment. I assume that you begin by purchasing a lot, but what, if any, are the residency requirements? Is it a place that can be lived in for a few months a year, and then rented out for the remainder?
Basically, depending on the park the answers are yes. Some parks do not allow rental though so you have to be clear up front. Some rent from a pool and use the income to reduce expenses overall (applied to your HOA fee). Some take a % and return the rest to you. Some allow you to rent it on your own while some require that the organization rent it. It varies widely. All these things are documented in the covenants and you have to read them CLOSELY.
Barbaraok said
07:48 PM Jan 23, 2014
Mark V wrote:
I'm completely ignorant about co-ops and would appreciate a little enlightenment. I assume that you begin by purchasing a lot, but what, if any, are the residency requirements? Is it a place that can be lived in for a few months a year, and then rented out for the remainder?
Actually you don't buy a lot, you buy a share in the total operation and, in most cases, sell back too the co-op when you leave. Requirements are what the members, through the board of directors, decide upon. Some allow renting out whengone, some don't. Like anything else, the details are in the small print and you need to read carefully.
In recent Journal entries, I've mentioned that Linda & I have found some property in southern Florida that we believe would be great for an RV Park. We've had some interest among the RV-Dreams Community in the idea of a Co-Op park, so we are now trying to see how much interest there really is.
So, if you think you might be interested, please read through our recent Journal entry: More About An RV Park Co-Op
In that entry, you will find a link to a survey. If, after reading the Journal entry, you think you might be interested, please complete the survey. We feel it is important to read through that entry before completing the survey, so that's why I don't have a direct link to the survey here.
Unfortunately, it's way too early in the process to put out details that can be seen by the general public. In the wrong hands, the information could result in the loss of the opportunity.
I know folks will have a lot of questions, most of which I won't be able to answer here. But we will provide additional details to those that complete the survey if there is enough interest to go to the next step.
Just wanted to make sure our Forum members are aware of the possibility. :)
Read what Howard wrote. VERY good article. Covers a lot of bases. Looking forward to discussing in depth at the Boondockers Rally. Would the seller be OK with a small deposit for an option to buy for a year or so? Just to be sure it would not be sold out under?
I have been involved in Coops all my life, and helped start one up. LOTS of work, but can be very worthwhile. However, if you want it to work, need the INVOLVEMENT of a lot of the members.
Interesting articles, but I suspect that Jo and I would not ever be interested. Since a group like Escapees have stopped developing new ones, I'd be a little concerned that a "smaller interest group" would have much success with their endeavor. We certainly don't have the ready cash to invest and Florida is just way too far from where our family is located. When we actually do settle down and no longer pursue the traveling aspect of RV'ing, it will be near family.
Terry
We’ve filled out the survey – sign us up.
We’ve been thinking this would / should happen with the RV-Dreams Community for what – about 5 years. Let’s see if we can make this happen.
Airstream has been doing this for like 40+ years and those co-ops work pretty much as was outlined by Howard. The ones we have been associated with work quite well.
Edited to add, Southern Florida is a great place to spend the winter. We've been there for many years.
Bill and Linda
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Saturday 11th of January 2014 10:54:29 AM
-- Edited by Bill and Linda on Saturday 11th of January 2014 10:57:18 AM
I would be interested but only if it was located in the southwest. We escaped the east coast 8 years ago and have vowed to never return except to visit family occasionally. Don't like humidity, mosquitoes, sand, etc. and Florida has all of that.
My wife still owns 100 acres of property in SC, it's a couple of miles off of I-26 and about 18 miles from Columbia (plenty of road frontage). We would love to sell it so if you decide to open RV Dreams Co-Op #2 give us a call.
We completed the survey. Our feeling is anything Howard and Linda do will be done right and we love the friendly community we've found here. Time frame would be interesting to hear.
We just got on the list at Jojoba Hills SKP Resort for a lot and we remember H & L stayed here last year. We missed the last available lot by just an hour so we're now #8 on the waiting list. 3 sites alone were sold this week. With industry RV unit sales reported up about 30% we feel the demand will just grow.
Sherry
edit: darn punctuation!
2nd edit: over age 55 wasn't even on our list of priorities. That would leave out H & L, Cherie & Chris and too many other great RV-Dreamers!
-- Edited by WestWardHo on Saturday 11th of January 2014 04:11:55 PM
-- Edited by WestWardHo on Saturday 11th of January 2014 06:45:56 PM
I filled in the survey. However, we have a great WINTER home on the bayou in south Louisiana but are seeking a SUMMER spot not unlike what you plan for Fla.
Any suggestions anyone? Mountains preferred.
CCC
1. We are too young at 45 and 47 to qualify for a 55 plus community.
2. We need to work some every year until we hit 65 so to invest in a property (even with rental possibilities) that we could spend so little time in wouldn't make a lot of sense for us personally
3. We also have spent a considerable amount of time on the east coast and in Florida and we want to explore the west. We may feel differently after we've seen everything we want to see and decide to be closer to family but that decision will largely be based on where our grandchildren are and it's thankfully a little too early for that :)
At this point, I'm no where near ready to grow that much of roots myself. Only been on the road for 8 years and just turned 40.... still got lots of adventures ahead of me without ties to any location (and south Florida not being on my list of contending locations). But at some point in the future, I see a model like this being a great option at least seasonally.
- Cherie
I agree with this one, would be nice in the southwest. It very interesting and would be interested also.
We have only been on the road a little over a year so it’s a little soon for us to pick one spot when there are so many areas to see in order to make an intelligent decision on just where that spot would be.
At this point I would have to say we also would be more interested in a spot if it were in the southwest. Mainly because what ties we do have are on the west coast. And from the southwest it would be more centrally located, I guess for lack of word’s, to head out from in any direction when the weather turned too hot to hang around.
Actually, not necessarily. When you go through Howard’s explanation it it is quite possible to have some people under 55 and it still be an “adult” community. "Visiting" grandchildren are also permitted under "55 and over" designations as well. Howard and Linda can be there as well as others. Just commenting.
Bill
LOL!!! We have never met Jack but for some reason I think we would get along great.
Howard
Great job in describing what comprises styles/structures of the various "Co-Op" structures out there. My in-laws are farmers in Kansas and participate in a "Co-Op" for farmers.
I understand the advantages/disadvantages you outline; however, we won't hit the road until late 2105 and want to see the entire country. The downside to investing in a Co-Op at this point of our life is that we have no idea what State we want to eventually settle in. It may not be a fair comparison; however, I don't think this is any different than investing in some land/house/property right now, say in FL, TX, TN, for our eventual use as a Home Base in the future. The downside to doing so now is that we really don't know if we want to end up in any of those States. I understand you can "rent out" your space or make money on it, but I could do the same on a S&B, with hopefully better appreciation than an RV Co-Op.
I'm sure this will certainly appeal to many on your forum, but moreover to those who have decided that "Florida" is their end-goal or permanent Home Base. At this time, it's simply not the right timing for us to entertain this opportunity; however, if we were, I can tell that we would be comfortable knowing that you're someone who has the legal background to lead this type of endeavor.
A totally different topic is a "55 & Over" community. Having lived in Tucson for 14-years, we basically decided against living in one of these communities, which are prolific in Arizona. We have our reasons, but we want to be in a community which is diverse in age and not simply around those of similar age. We enjoy building into the lives of young children, teenagers, and college-age adults who would comprise the community. This is a personal decision we've made, but I understand why others choose to be in only 55 & Over communities.
-- Edited by Jake62 on Sunday 12th of January 2014 08:19:11 AM
we won't hit the road until late 2105
2105! Wow! You must be really young! LOL
I know diverse. I worked with people from every inhabited continent, of about every race, sex, religion and sexual orientation. I made friends with and enjoyed them all. I have had to bite my tongue over the misconceptions about racial groups and unfortunately common prejudice that I encounter all the time in the RVer community. It is sad. People are missing so much by taking such a limited and simple view of others.
Thank you byjoyce. We have been moving around for over 30 years and camping longer. I grew in MI where the underground railroad ended so I ended up "color-blind" and brought my kids up that way. I also grew up in a tiny village of about 75 people where the older people were respected and called by all "Grandma Wilson", "Grandpa Wilson", "Grandma Sayer", etc. and they loved children. I was in the AF and worked for 8 years on an Army base, my older son (just made LTC!) has an wife of Asian decent so I have been around. As for children, I can understand some not wanting them around but sometimes there is an attitude that comes across with that. But, the grand kids, which from my experience aren't "all that", are always another story. We were in the south and I made friends with the RV maintenance man who was black that came in to do "house calls", this is the best way to keep everyone else at bay. We were there 2 years and I learned a lot about the attitudes.............. I do think that minorities generally avoid situations where they aren't accepted and that includes people with disabilities, certain ages, people with children, religious affiliations where such is obvious, etc. Life is too short to be where you aren't wanted.
What I see though that is good in the discussion is that a co-op would never work for us. Seriously, our bodies may be over 55+ but our in our heads, we are "Forever Young"!
Edit: Our son is 27 years old but since he has DS, he looks like he is about 12 or 13 years and functions about like a 6 year old, so he comes across as being a child. I am sure that would give us grief.
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Sunday 12th of January 2014 12:13:53 PM
Those people don't know what they are missing....it's unfortunate that many of the "WHITE COLLAR" types get stuck on living the so called Dream.....I lived and worked surrounded by that type for many years, STUCK is the best way I can describe them......BTW, I almost got stuck myself!!!!
I agree with ManyCats. We grew up in Fl and endured heat, humidity, mosquitos, lovebugs, hurricanes & the farther south you go lots of congestion. I 'm talking about heat & humidity so bad it feels like it is sucking the air right out of your lungs.
I like the idea of a co-op but we're not ready for that yet since we need to get our last child through school before we will head out.
We do appreciate all the research Howard has done on this & other subjects.
We have many happy friends who own co-op lots, or own RV lots in Texas, Washington, Wyoming, Florida, Alabama and Arizona. My mother-in-law has two Escapees co-op lots, one in Chimacum WA and the other in Casa Grande AZ. We know from their experience what owning such a lot means, and it is not for us. Florida is out for us, our family is all on the West Coast. Luckily we have saved off the money for our exit plan and can make the exit decision when it is forced on us.
Florida from December through March is normally a nice place, not so hot, no hurricanes and few bugs.
Amen!! I totally agree with you on the 55+.....and I also think the more rules/guidelines/restrictions you have in place, the less desirable the RV community becomes. I would rather be on a couple of acres in the middle of nowhere than have everyone in the park critiquing every move I make.
Filled out my survey :)
-- Edited by Trix on Sunday 12th of January 2014 03:09:48 PM
We raised 4 children (none of them feral) that absolutely loved the camping lifestyle. We never had a ton of money and most hotels and motels wouldn't allow 6 individuals in one room so we decided to invest in a small travel trailer and our family vacations were spent camping. Now most of the children are out of the house and don't really want to go camping with us old folk's anymore.LOL
In all our years of camping we never had a campground host, park owner, neighbor, etc. complain about our children. We always taught them to treat other people's belongings the same as their own and I made sure they respected other camper's space too. I can honestly say we have never had a serious issue with children in any campground we have stayed at. The only people that have annoyed us were the "feral" adults or the grumpy old couple that snarls every time you walk or ride your bike by their site. Camping to me should be diverse and I would hope that Howard and Linda wouldn't discriminate when it come to kids (if they decide to go for the CO-OP). There are already enough of the "Adult Communities" out there, we don't need anymore of those. I respect your opinion but I totally disagree with it.
Hey Terry,
Sorry if I was one of those getting a little off topic.
I did read Howard's RV Park Co-Ops What is a Co-Op? and as usual Howard did an awesome job explaining the positive and negatives of being in a Co-Op. It doesn't seem like a good fit for us at this time, I don't like a bunch of restrictions/rules. I think everyone knows how I feel about the 55+ restriction. That being said, if Howard and Linda were to ever expand into the Southwest we may be on board because we know it would be run properly.
Co-Op is a lot like an HOA, you have to ask permission or get approval to make improvements, there may be restrictions on the number of people allowed to stay onsite, types of vehicles, age of vehicles, etc. So you actually don't own the lot because you aren't able to use it as you see fit. There are also restrictions on the sale of the lot (usually) and sometimes you can't even profit even though most require a substantial investment. I'm sure there would be monthly dues put in place to cover maintenance of the park too. We looked at a Co-Op in Georgia that wouldn't even allow you to stay on your RV lot all year round....what's up with that? If you own it you should be able to stay there.
Bottom line the Co-Op is only as good as the people that run it and finding a large group of like minded people will be very difficult.
When we get a little older a Co-Op may work out great, we could have one up north for summer and one down south for the winter months. Just not right for us at this stage of the game.
Howard,
Thank you for taking the time to post all of the info about Co-Ops.
-- Edited by azrving on Sunday 12th of January 2014 05:42:03 PM
Ha :) Yes ... 2015, but maybe the great-great-grandkids (when they come along) will be interested in hitting the road in 2105!
We are in danger of straying off the original topic here. So, please keep the comments closer to that. Especially since Howard and Linda may be monitoring this one to gauge what others think of the RV co-op idea. And, if anyone has read Howard's suggestions in the upper part of the forums, he really doesn't like seeing threads get way off topic.
Terry
As soon to be full timers, we know that we will be spending Winters somewhere in the southern tier of the United States. It is very likely that Florida will be at the top of our list, to spend a few months. So we are interested to know more. Further specifics will be in our survey reply.
Sure, we'd like to be part a community of friendly, civil minded people who care, support and respect each other but that quality would be better determined nearer to the time of actually considering/moving there. Family needs, available healthcare etc. need to be rightfully considered. Communities change and evolve constantly. Developers or industry could determine the area worthy of their interest.... so many other factors can change with time.
In sum, we'd be interested but the devil is in the details. On that, we'll wait for further info if/when it becomes available. I have no doubt that there is sufficient interest and if Howard and Linda wish to procede with it, I say more power to them. It may or may not be right for everyone but we'll keep an open mind. It has certainly been an interesting thread. Now, we'll go fill in their survey.
What I mean is to have a park that is divided into two areas. Long term and then a basic campground area. Let people not in the co-op rent spots just like they would in a campground for say up to 2 weeks. All the money that is generated from that would go into the general fund to maintain the park. Then the long term area is where people own a lot, but if they are not going to be there it can be rented out to other people who want to stay 1-12 months. Then the rent for that lot goes to the owner with say 25% taken off the top to help offset the maintenance, park fees etc. People who's lots are rented out can choose to take the profits in a payment or bank it for when they want to permanently live there to cover their fees. This would keep a lot of the cost down for individuals. Also co-op owners could cycle through and put in a month here or there work camping to help maintain it.
On the rules thing: Rules for any co-op should be fair to all and agreed upon by all. Instead of a 55+ resort just say an all adult resort. As far as units in the park make general rules about cleanliness, but I do not see why a 20 year old unit should be banned as long as it is nice and kept up. If people want a storage shed etc. pick a few styles and brands that look nice, vote on them and then people can have storage. It is doable it just needs to be a democracy.
As for the place. FL I plan to visit but long term I don't know plus there are so many already. I think a more moderate climate would fit with a long term plan. If you want a beach with a lot less land cost, Long Beach MS. is awesome, or along the Texas coast. Or if going for a warmer climate desert SW, so at least you do not have the humidity and fist sized bugs.
My 2 cents.
When I was interested in purchasing an AIRSTREAM I looked into their parks as well. Here are a couple of links and one can access the other parks from these. Some ideas on what they do and what has worked. I like the ones where erecting a shelter for the RV is permitted and several allow living quarters as well. I personally like the idea of both the shelter and attached living quarters.
wbcci.org/resources/airstream-parks/677-north-texas-airstream-community-inc-ntac
www.airstreampark.com/current-listings/
www.texasairstreamharbor.com/texasairstreamharbor/gallery.html
Good luck on your efforts,
CCC
Love to see this one work and then see where the second RV Dreamers co-op might be in the future. One thing that I like about a H&L designed co-op is that I'm assuming they won't build it so that the sites are almost on top of each other since H&L's blog indicate they much prefer larger sites and a bit of room, privacy and space between sites. We avoid RV Parks as much as possible because of the "claustrophobic" feel so that is definitely something we would really want to understand in any place we were putting down roots.
Barb
While what Barb says is true, a good park environment negates most of that. For example, although not a coop the North Ranch Escapees park has an original "generation" of owners, and a more recent "generation" of younger owners. Things still get done. And the costs are kept in control BECAUSE people contribute their time. The key to success is that people volunteer their time and welcome new people. Cliques will always be a factor, but that can be managed.
The co-op park that my parents began in Florida with others in the 70’s is still going strong. The Park looks still great, we were there last week. The “younger” generation, actually now on generation number 3 or more, works quite well with the “originals.” Costs have been kept in line and the renovations continue. After like 40 years things do need upgrading and they have been.
It all depends on the people and the park “culture.”
Bill
I'm completely ignorant about co-ops and would appreciate a little enlightenment. I assume that you begin by purchasing a lot, but what, if any, are the residency requirements? Is it a place that can be lived in for a few months a year, and then rented out for the remainder?
Basically, depending on the park the answers are yes. Some parks do not allow rental though so you have to be clear up front. Some rent from a pool and use the income to reduce expenses overall (applied to your HOA fee). Some take a % and return the rest to you. Some allow you to rent it on your own while some require that the organization rent it. It varies widely. All these things are documented in the covenants and you have to read them CLOSELY.
Actually you don't buy a lot, you buy a share in the total operation and, in most cases, sell back too the co-op when you leave. Requirements are what the members, through the board of directors, decide upon. Some allow renting out whengone, some don't. Like anything else, the details are in the small print and you need to read carefully.
Barb
Jack, Danielle, and Barb ... thanks for the info.