My husband and I ordered a DRV 5th wheel this summer only to have it delivered November 13, 2013 to the dealership with NUMEROUS problems! We are aware of the fact that when folks (ourselves included) look at RVs on dealership lots all of the problems or "kinks" have been worked out prior to them being put on the lot. However, have any of you folks ordered custom RVs only to have problems (from the factory) keep you from taking immediate ownership (after the thorough PDI is completed of course)? We understand the possibility of problems occurring while in transit from the factory to the dealer, but the amount of problems that LEFT the factory is disheartening! We hope to take ownership FINALLY December 10!! We still will not have the specific couch we ordered at that date. That will not be in until the end of the year or possibly later!!! Please share any comments or experiences if you've ordered RVs before...THANKS!
D and M said
11:30 AM Dec 2, 2013
DavidnRenee,
We didn't custom order ours but we did take possession as soon as it hit the lot. We did a thorough PDI and spent the next week on the dealers lot to try and ensure everything worked correctly. The end result was that we have had numerous problems and several are clearly manufacturing issues. We've had several water problems like leaking fresh water tank and the washer drain pipe not being glued. Our air conditioner wasn't cooling properly and the dealer took it apart and found baffling in the air duct that was installed incorrectly. Even with that correction the AC unit still needs to be replaced. On top of that, we have a couple dozen other less critical but still frustrating problems to be corrected. We too felt we were purchasing a top of the line unit, highly touted by many, and were extremely surprised and disappointed at the poor workmanship from the DRV factory.
GENECOP said
11:40 AM Dec 2, 2013
Like many have said before this is just part of the process.....we the public accept this kind of shoddy workmanship and Quality control.....hopefully the Japanese will enter the market one day and force the US manufacturers to do it better....Stay on the dealer, don't accept the unit until everything meets you expectations...
Sadly, Genecop is spot on! This is not just limited to RVs but to nearly everything anymore. Even with factory direct units, I still issues that should have been resolved and were not and require trips back to the dealership if the problem is significant. Quality control is a thing of the past. I have heard it said that they just get them shipped out and let the dealer take care of the issues. I often shop the thrift shops for items made in Japan from the 60's.
DAVIDnRENEE said
04:43 PM Dec 2, 2013
D and M...
We completely understand! We did a lot of research before deciding on a DRV product. We currently own a 2009 Forest River Cardinal and have been pleased with it, but we are going to be full time since selling our home and wanted a "higher end" unit. We were just displeased (and shocked) with the issues that obviously left the factory that way. We did have a few issues that occurred in transit (and we expected small issues) that also need to be addressed. We just wanted to make sure our issues were REPLACED vs being repaired. We had been told the thorough PDI would take 4-5 days, but our RV has been at the dealership for 19 days and still isn't completed!!!!!! We did take a second trip to see it and are pleased with the progress. The service technicians are working to completely make us happy! We will stay in a nearby RV park once we take ownership (at the expense of the dealership) to test the products and see if we have additional questions ourselves. I know we saw our RV almost immediately upon arrival and the service department didn't have time to "hide" some flaws, but we were just shocked that DRV allowed our RV to leave the factory the way it did. We have spoken to Kyle Miller (@ DRV), and he acknowledged that is an area that needs to be improved @ DRV. We toured the factory in September (and physically saw and looked in our RV) and were quite pleased with what we saw, so it just caught us off guard when we walked in our RV on the dealership lot!!
GENECOP, Mary Sunshine, and SnowGypsy...
I don't know if buying non-American is necessarily the answer, but possibly holding American products to a higher standard and not being willing to settle for less!!! I try (and prefer to buy American made) but realize that is not always an option. Let's just hope we pick up the pace (with regard to products and quality) and run with it!!!
Jo And Craig said
07:54 PM Dec 2, 2013
Oops! My bad! When I agreed with GENECOP, I meant that quality has been slipping for years. Would I rather buy American? You bet I would. Good luck with your unit, Renee and David! Can't wait to hear how it all turns out.
DAVIDnRENEE said
08:38 PM Dec 2, 2013
Mary Sunshine...
So true!!!
We will keep our status updated as to the progress made!
Thanks!
soos said
09:12 PM Dec 2, 2013
When we arrived at the dealership to pickup our new rig, they started to do a Walk thru with us. Very quickly we realized that we prefered to do it on our own. We told him we'd let him know when we were done. 5 hours later we showed him our long list of issues. We walked into the sales office and told them we were not accepting delivery and would not be writing a check.
After going over our list, we agreed to accept the rig if he got confirmation from DRV that we could show up in the morning and they would fix the (way too many) things that were wrong. DRV agreed and we headed to Indiana. We spent almost a week there getting Things fixed and had to go bwck a month later to finish it up.
Although there's no way that these problems should have happened to begin with, DRV was at least good to work with to get them fixed. A couple of the problems were the fault of the dealer, but not many.
Would we order another? I'd think about it pretty hard. In the last year we haven't had many issues, other than an AC that died 3 months out of warranty.
Most of the problems we had were component problems, not "build" issues.
Sue
Terry and Jo said
09:15 PM Dec 2, 2013
Actually, I'm not scratching my head. The issues of quality control goes on in many industries. At one time in my life, I even worked for a few months as a car salesman. When the discussion came up of a vehicle having a problem from the factory, one of the older salesmen stated, "Well, keep in mind that even Rolls Royce has service departments."
It isn't an easy thing to do, but one thing that can make a big difference with the purchase of any product is to know the dealer or business from which one is buying their product. I've heard of cases where dealerships have been known to blame issues on the factory that were actually caused by the dealership. Also, having been in sales, I am fully aware that any salesman must be able to demonstrate their honest interest in the needs of the customer, and if they can't, then maybe then need a different career path. I've personally known salesmen that were "top sellers," but sold a lot of products by being somewhat, if not outright, dishonest about the product.
When many of us mention that one find owners association forums in order to learn about any issues with a product, we know that there are also times when one will learn of exceptional dealerships and those that aren't. Even good brand names can have lousy dealerships, and DRV is no different.
Sadly, I can't say that any manufacturer is exempt from having problems and at some point, many do learn that they are beginning to get a bad reputation. While DRV has had some issues, I do know that they also try to address the problems. There are lots of folks on the forums related to DRV owners that really do praise the factory for doing the right thing. So, if something isn't being done exactly up to snuff, it just might be the dealership.
Terry
Dog Folks said
05:54 AM Dec 3, 2013
Gene Cop is right on.
Those of us old enough to remember the new car industry in the 60's remember the poor quality of American cars then. It was very common to buy a new car and drive it for 30 days while making a long list of problems for the dealer to fix. Sound familiar with today's RV units?
Enter the foreign cars. Quality of American cars is way up and technology is getting better everyday because of the competition. Buying a new car and making a repair list is virtually unheard of today.
I still try to buy American, but that is another issue.
DAVIDnRENEE said
10:57 AM Dec 3, 2013
Soos and Terry/Jo...
It seems we have some of the same issues as you Soos! Our Elite arrived at the dealership Wednesday, November 13, and today is Tuesday, December 3...and it is STILL there!! Like you Soos, we have not written our final check. We let the dealership know we will NOT write it either until every issue is resolved to our satisfaction. We want items replaced (as opposed to repaired)! When you spend a large amount of money for a new item...you want new quality!!
Terry and Jo I can assure you the dealership did not cause any of these problems!!!! The truck delivering our RV had just unhooked and the service department @ the dealership was still doing their initial walk thru (before allowing the driver to leave the lot) when we arrived. After almost 3 hours (and a HUGE list compiled) the driver was released. The particular items inside the unit (with the exception of the dinette chair being damaged due to transit) we have issues with all left the factory that way!!!!! Even speaking with K. Miller (who called us) at DRV he acknowledged their quickly control (at the factory) is not up to par!! He admitted that the folks in that area are "complacent" (his word not ours) and get so used to "looking" at the rigs before they leave that they so often miss things. Our dealership is working with us to ensure we are completely satisfied. Our particular salesman has been a huge benefit to us and definitely rallies on our behalf (along with the service department) with DRV. It's just that I would have had higher regards to DRV products than this. I wondered if we just had a fluke (or lemon) and most folks have no problems, but as I read more and more comments (on other forums as well) I believe our case isn't all that unusual. Sad!!!
Dog Folks...
Yep...is all I can say, so true!!!
MarkS said
12:24 PM Dec 3, 2013
Knowing the quality of a DRV, you could have done much worse. At least they are working with you and understanding your concerns. Those that consider the Japanese superior have obviously forgotten the early datsuns, Toyotas, and Hondas, @cough-junk-cough@. They improved because Americans required quality. At any rate, I expect that once you get through the rough spots with your RV, you will be satisfied that you made a good choice. Lord knows you bought quality.
SnowGypsy said
01:24 PM Dec 3, 2013
Quality control personnel shouldn't get so used to inspecting something that they miss things as they should have a checklist and adhere to it with each and every inspection The issue becomes that there are things you cannot see and if handled similarly to what you do see..... I make a huge effort to buy American, starting locally BUT I buy eyeglasses for our entire family online and I tried twice to work with a US company, quality was poor and after fighting with them and losing twice, I now use one which comes out of China but the service, quality and price are exceptional. Know that every RV I have researched has come up short and I have looked at nearly everything. Hey, if you are handy and don't mind those more old-fashioned looking ones, Glen-L has plans for some "classic" 5th wheels for people with simple tastes. We bought their smallest plans for a camper but have yet to build it and have considered seeing if we could find someone to build exactly what we wanted with the plans for larger units. Some people make some great trailers out of the cargo trailers.
jswharton said
05:06 PM Dec 3, 2013
Wow, DRV is aware of their quality control issues and does what? Sounds to me like there is a leadership problem, an attitude that may have infected the organization. Trust and integrity is built one coach at a time. Like the stock fund disclaimer, "Past Performance Does Not Ensure Current Performance".
I sure hope they come thru and fix your problems
DAVIDnRENEE said
05:18 PM Dec 3, 2013
MarkS...
This is our 3rd 5th wheel (we owned a 2001 Jayco Designer, still own a 2009 Forest River Cardinal) we have purchased. We custom designed a 41RSSB4 Elite Suites and have never seen so many issues straight from the factory! While we are glad DRV and our dealership we ordered from are working with us...we are just aggravated with the amount of problems needing to be replaced or repaired. Brand new RVs should not need carpet and flooring replaced along with baseboards and valances not to mention toilets along with the items needing repair!! 90% of the problems left the factory in that condition and should never have been allowed (again confirmed by K. Miller of DRV) to leave in such condition! While I agree most American made items are far superior...others still have a long way to go!
SnowGypsy...
I think we take our chances with each and every item we purchase - American made or not. However, it is the quality, customer service, and the ease of return/refund that keep us going back! I'm like you...I go where I get the best service as well as product!!
DAVIDnRENEE said
05:41 PM Dec 3, 2013
jswharton...
We agree 100% with you!! It kind of caught us off guard when the gentleman from DRV blatantly admitted their quality control PDI employees have become "complacent" and often overlook things. You would think they would expect more from them than to merely explain their actions later!!! I can understand a couple issues, but not so many that it takes - to date 20 days to fix - and still are not completed!! We received confirmation just this afternoon that our RV would not be ready December 10...the 2nd date they promised!
sdman said
09:31 AM Dec 4, 2013
Just a short note on this subject. I spent 34 years in the passenger rail car/locomotive manufacturing industry. The situation I see here is that there is a lack of leadership in the company. Production will always try to push stuff out the door. In a true quality lead organization each issue found by the inspectors would be brought back to where the problems occurred and a corrective action taken. Corrective action means that a plan is made so the issue doesn't happen again. This is clearly not happening in the RV industry.
SnowGypsy said
12:05 PM Dec 4, 2013
RV manufacturers have quotas just like other industries. In order to keep up, they really can't send the units back through so they push them out to the dealers to handle. Seriously, this has been the situation for some time with quality dropping as a unit becomes more popular so one gets bragged up, sales increases and quality drops and that is why just because the units used to be quality means not a heck of a lot today. We started looking at units over 30 years ago, mostly dreaming of new and purchasing used and the quality difference is indescribable but this has happened pretty much across the board with manufactured goods. When I have to purchase something I just call it "Luck of the Draw".
Jack Mayer said
12:49 PM Dec 4, 2013
SnowGypsy wrote:
When I have to purchase something I just call it "Luck of the Draw".
Unfortunately, that is true....especially on RVs. Some come out good. Some come out with more issues. None are perfect - even the custom built ones. They are all hand built. The middle to upper middle lines that add lots of glitz tend to sacrifice on the structure/infrastructure. Basically all RV appliances and most of the purchased infrastructure elements - like furnaces, etc - are almost all built as cheaply as possible. It is amazing they work as well as they do. I try to stay away from "RV Junk" appliances as much as possible. Although sometimes you make a tradeoff on price/quality knowingly.
WestWardHo said
08:09 PM Dec 4, 2013
I clearly see Jack's point that none are perfect but I'm with SDMan, it's top down in any business. I also feel individual pride in workmanship is lacking in many cases. We can't all afford New Horizons but to get a DRV, which is a pretty high end unit, in that condition is disgraceful! Not doubting anyone's posts but it's difficult to imagine a senior management person stating that QC had become complacent but wasn't taking action about it.
While I understand that manufacturers put out different levels of product to meet different buyer's budgets and needs, I am astounded that many RV manufacturers seem unaware today how damaging various digital forum and blog reviews can damage their reputation. Guess I grew up in a different age where reputation mattered.
I know, I'm naive!
Sherry
WendysPhotos said
09:17 AM Dec 5, 2013
We have been looking at a DRV model, but after all the stuff I have read on here and other forums, I have to wonder if it is really worth spending that kind of money on one. I mean if I can go with a 'less top of the line' manufacturer and get a less buggy unit for less. It seem good to me. It seems like everyone seems to be going with DRV though, but I do not want to have to spend months dealing with problems before I even get on the road and then if they have all these obvious problems out of the factory, How many are breaking down 6 months out?
This is sort of scary. My hubby is NOT Mr. fix it and we do not want to have to be fixing things all the time. I expect some thing to need repair, but if I bought a new house things should work for a couple of years before I had to call a repair man.
Lucky Mike said
09:30 AM Dec 5, 2013
Wendy...
Keep in mind there are many DVR's that come out without problems......ALL brands have issues , you are just reading these.
its kinda like buying a stick and brick......when you buy a used home it comes with the fixer upper.......buy a new home and it comes with several punch lists...
buy a new car same problem..(some cars cost millions)
you should see the problems a QC inspector has at the Toilet paper factory!!!!
Remember .....if you can look at, it hold it or dream it........there is a repairman in the wings and an App. for that!!!
SnowGypsy said
11:37 AM Dec 5, 2013
Search the internet for issues with the unit you are considering. I would not buy something because that is what others seem to be buying because that doesn't take the place of research.
waltben said
01:47 PM Dec 5, 2013
Sorry to hear about your new DRV! Your experience just reaffirms what I've been saying all along - doesn't matter new or used, YOU have to do a really thorough PDI (using checklists, flashlight, mirror, etc.) and negotiate fixes with the dealer BEFORE signing anything. Even the most thorough inspection may not uncover something too big to fix yourself though. DRV is rated very highly even by RV Consumer's Group, but even they can have problems.
jswharton said
01:57 PM Dec 5, 2013
These reports just give me the hebegebees. The DRV owner’s forum doesn't seem to have any stories of this magnitude, but it is a very small forum. In the link the Sunshine Mary posted, those folks have been fighting their battle for 18 months. If these problems are a result of DRV growth and success they may be just starting to show up, maybe in the last year or so. Even with several Google searches I could not come up with the blog Mary showed us.
About a month ago Fran and I went looking specifically at DRV. We were ready to be impressed. The units we looked at in the MS and Traditions lines had some nice features, plenty of bling but we walked out thinking that someone will get hurt with the way some of the bath doors opened onto the stairs and they were all just a bit ragged. At 1½ to twice the cost of our Montana, we just didn’t see the value.And now with these stories we crossed DRV off our list.
We are going to look at Excel and Artic Fox.
Terry and Jo said
05:38 PM Dec 5, 2013
Like Mike said, all brands will have their problems. And, he also alluded to the fact that forums, especially owner's forums, will tend to "draw" participants that are looking for a solution to a problem that they are having. Something else to think of is that I would imagine that there are a lot more folks that aren't having problems at all. Since we are owners of a DRV and that I am involved on two different forums that are related to that brand, I can say that there are more than 6000 of those DRV products out there, but the forums likely have less than 100 to 200 people that really participate there.
I've stated this several times and it never goes out of date. If one registers on a forum to ask their own questions, there is one question that I suggest people ask. That question would be directed to the owners of the brand in question. Since we are talking about DRV's, I'll use then as an example in the question: "If you were to buy another RV would you buy a DRV Suites product again?" In my experiences with that question, I get a LOT more folks saying they would buy a DRV again.
We made the decision to buy a Mobile Suites because we knew we would be living in this trailer for "a lot of years to come." We also knew we were going to be living where it gets cold and wanted something that had the thicker walls and more insulation than the normal RV's. So far, we've been in temps as low as 14 degrees and as high as 115 and stayed comfortable. Now, we are scheduled to REALLY TEST that within the next week. Earlier today, I saw a report that one morning next week we should see a low of -2 degrees. However, a more recent look at their website shows that they are now saying +7 degrees for the lows.
I guess we shall really put the test to this trailer before we move to the Colorado Springs area next summer. As I write this, it is 21 degrees outside, 54.7 degrees in the underbelly area, and a balmy 71 degrees inside.
Terry
Bill and Linda said
10:01 AM Dec 6, 2013
jswharton wrote:
We are going to look at Excel and Artic Fox.
We’ve been to the Excel plant and have done what we consider a lot of first hand – eyes on - research.The Excel built quality is really good in our opinion and we’ve been to a lot of plants.Nice options that actually matter - in our opinion - and a “tank” for a frame.I would strongly consider going to the factory and checking out any you are considering.The plant tour won’t tell you everything, but after you do a few plant walk thoughts it will become more evident as to the build quality and quality control. Pay no attention, in our opinion, to the pretty insides or the paint as such. They all look "pretty" these days. It's under what counts. Take a close look at a rig under construction and see what’s really behind the walls, especially as pertains to the electrical where many times it will never be seen.
Bill
jswharton said
11:55 AM Dec 6, 2013
Bill, sound advice! My son lives in Minneapolis, don't know how they survive the winters, but are headed up for a visit in the spring. Thought we would stop by Excel and New Horizons on the way up.
Jack Mayer said
03:23 PM Dec 6, 2013
Scott, since you are going through the area Spacecraft is not too far from New Horizons. Depends on how your travel route takes you , but you might want to consider a visit there, as well.
If you want to see how the frame on a New Horizons is built - a Majestic frame, anyway - take a look here. There is a reason why a New Horizons or a Spacecraft is so heavy. They have heavier frames to start with, and they use heavier (higher quality) materials for the rest of the coach. To a very large extent, you DO get what you pay for.
kb0zke said
06:57 PM Dec 6, 2013
A few factory tours will really help you learn about the quality (or lack thereof). As others have said, EVERY manufacturer will have some sort of quality issue that a new owner will have to deal with. A year or two ago there was a story on one of the forums about someone who purchased a new MH, about $1.5M worth, and on the first outing the a/c units all failed. He called the factory, and they said to go back to the dealer for warranty work. I don't know exactly what the real problem was or what the outcome was, but even the most expensive coaches will have some issues. Yes, it would be nice if the factory could thoroughly check over each and every unit before it leaves the factory, but that just isn't completely practical. The dealer should inspect and repair any problems when it arrives from the factory, but again, they can't thoroughly test every coach that arrives on the lot. The real test is how the dealer and factory take care of the problems that will show up. Unfortunately, some companies won't reimburse the dealer at the dealer's normal labor rate, which leads to other problems.
Jack's comment about looking at the frame construction is well taken. When we were touring factories a few years ago we were partial to one builder, and actually thought that we'd end up with one of that company's products, albeit used rather than new. After touring the DRV factory, though, we quickly saw the shortcuts that our "favorite" took, and crossed them off the list. The biggest difference was in the frame construction. Yes, there was a price and weight difference, but not as much as we thought there would be. Since we would be buying used anyway, it just meant that we would be looking at a DRV that was a couple of years older than the other brand. Since we ended up with a 20-year-old coach, age doesn't mean that much to us. Quality does.
DAVIDnRENEE said
10:50 PM Dec 8, 2013
I did post a very similar thread on the Suites Owners' forum site as well. I cannot recall which area I posted it under (possibly community chat).
DAVIDnRENEE said
11:08 PM Dec 8, 2013
We understand that with any product (RV, vehicles, ATV, motorcycles, homes, etc) there is a potential to have problems immediately. With RVs because so many products (from other manufacturers) are used within the units there is possibly a larger potential to have problems (RV manufacturers cannot control quality of the products they use [until there is a large enough problem with one to cause them to discontinue their usage]). We guess our biggest gripe was how the factory allowed the RV to leave its lot looking (cosmetic issues) the way it did. It didn't take a very thorough eye to spot the numerous mishaps with our RV. The DRV rep did tell us that some of their PDI employees have become complacent and often overlook these mishaps. Again, because we have not taken ownership of our unit we are not aware of any potential problems with the appliances, satellite, slides, generator, etc (other than the issue with the toilet discovered by the dealer). IWe honestly hope that mechanical problems are few to none (especially since the cosmetic issues were great), and that we have nothing but great news to share once we actually take ownership of our RV. As with the purchase of our other 2 previous RVs we too have completed extensive research on numerous brands. Like we read in an earlier post - no product is going to be 100% free from defects or flaws. Best word of advice is to do the best research you can and make a decision that is best for you and your family. Good luck to everyone making a new RV purchase, enjoying their current RV, or contemplating the purchase of an RV.
DAVIDnRENEE said
04:13 PM Dec 9, 2013
We toured the factory in September, but it never occurred to us to ask the question relating to the employees' work schedule. Everyone was working - what looked like diligently -but it was early in the AM. I did read a previous post (on another thread) that mentioned the employees were allowed to leave once their job was completed while receiving a full day's pay. I have not verified that, but the consensus was the quality would possibly suffer if someone knows they get to leave early (and still get full pay) because they would "slap" the RVs together...scary thought! However, since we are still waiting to take ownership of our new RV (26 days and counting) since it arrived at the dealership. I had positive things to say about the dealership and both Kyle Miller and Chad Olinger @ DRV last night while updating my post, but today is another thing!!! We found out we are no further along today than we were a month ago!!!!!! We called Chad (head of customer service) this AM, and still haven't received a call back today (and they are closed since it's way after 4 their time)! We are beginning to rethink our DRV purchase and contemplating looking AGAIN at other high end RVs.
SnowGypsy said
04:36 PM Dec 9, 2013
I am really sorry to hear this and you have EVERY right to be upset whether nothing is perfect or not, I realize the kind of money that you are talking about when it comes to this purchase and you have EVERY right to expect them to provide you in the end with a product and customer service that you deserve and this sure ain't it! I know how disappointed you must be at this point and it really is taking away from the enjoyment that you should be experiencing now. And, yes, I would be extra concerned if employees were allowed to leave when they completed their work for the day whether it was quitting time or not but that might indicate that they have a hard time keeping their employees, for some reason, and need an incentive. Wages can be very low and the people taking those jobs at the wages paid are often not as competent as they should be. So many people trash Forest River but at least, you get what you pay for, maybe not a Cadillac, but what you pay for and we had really good luck with the factory authorizing the limited warranty work that we needed. I truly hope this turns around for you soon. Have you mentioned to them that you considering looking at other high end RVs or maybe at this point, high end and not DRV?
GENECOP said
04:59 PM Dec 9, 2013
Some part of of me has begun to think that a quality used unit might be something to consider...There are several highly reputable used dealers......as amazing as it sounds these guys will go over a used unit Top To Bottom, Front To Back, detail, and fine tune a second hand unit in a way that new dealers do not.....The New dealer ASSUMES that everything is ok, these assumptions are a big problem........Additionally by the time a used unit is Customer ready to show, it has been thoroughly checked out....and is ready to go.......all these new units coming in poorly prepped, weeks and weeks to fix problems......Just a thought....
DAVIDnRENEE said
08:42 PM Dec 10, 2013
SnowGypsy...
This DRV RV is our 3rd RV. Our 2nd RV, which we currently still have, is a Forest River Cardinal. We love it, but wanted to upgrade now that we sold our home. We are going to be full timers and travel to work camp so we wanted something - we thought (and still hope!!!) is made very well and with awesome quality. Again, the issues we have now (that have prevented us from taking ownership) are cosmetics and not necessarily durability (fingers crossed we don't find any once we take ownership!!). We do know the toilet has to be replaced but to our knowledge that is the only problem (discovered by the service department). We have told several people that we had little to no problems with our Cardinal...go figure!!
DAVIDnRENEE said
08:47 PM Dec 10, 2013
GENECOP...
That is a very viable option we probably wish we had considered before now. We did tell the dealership that if we had wanted everything (needing cosmetic help) repaired vs replaced - we would have bought a pre-owned unit and had them repair (and possibly quicker but hopefully not better) than our new RV. We'll just have to see. Since today (2nd supposedly take ownership day has come and gone) did not transpire we have now been told Friday is the (3rd time is hopefully the charm) new pick up day. We'll let everyone know if we get to hook up to our RV, and we'll report how all looks as well.
-- Edited by DAVIDnRENEE on Tuesday 10th of December 2013 08:49:06 PM
-- Edited by DAVIDnRENEE on Tuesday 10th of December 2013 08:49:42 PM
SnowGypsy said
07:00 AM Dec 11, 2013
Hoping for good news on Friday that you are past this "bump" in your dream.
DAVIDnRENEE said
01:11 PM Dec 12, 2013
SnowGypsy...
THANK YOU!!
The date has actually been moved once again but only to Saturday. The recent wintry weather postponed delivery of our item shipped from the factory. One set of items arrived yesterday, but the other package is scheduled for today by "close of busines." We are going to give them an extra day to complete everything. Plus, weather is not forecasted to be agreeable tomorrow (70% chance of rain @ the dealershp [100% chance @ home]), but it is forecasted to be beautiful Saturday!!!! We are excited and many of the dealership "higer ups" are scheduled to be there as well. I guess all of the problems and delays was brought to the attention of many who want to wish us well on our maiden voyage...
I'll keep everyone updated as to how it goes!
Camper Chronicles said
08:11 AM Dec 15, 2013
Thank you for this thread. We decided to special order and because of this thread and our upcoming Tennessee rally commitment that if the unit was not ready by that week the dealer would provide a comparable loaner unit until it was. The salesperson looked at me like I had two heads when I suggested it could come from the manufacturer wrong, but I held my ground and finally he called the owner in who agreed. Crazy but knowing your experience really helped me stand up so thank you
-- Edited by Trace on Sunday 15th of December 2013 08:12:27 AM
DAVIDnRENEE said
01:55 PM Dec 15, 2013
Trace wrote:
Thank you for this thread. We decided to special order and because of this thread and our upcoming Tennessee rally commitment that if the unit was not ready by that week the dealer would provide a comparable loaner unit until it was. The salesperson looked at me like I had two heads when I suggested it could come from the manufacturer wrong, but I held my ground and finally he called the owner in who agreed. Crazy but knowing your experience really helped me stand up so thank you
-- Edited by Trace on Sunday 15th of December 2013 08:12:27 AM
I'm glad to hear that Trace! We never dreamed our brand new RV would have had issues that delayed us taking ownership immediately once the initial PDI was completed. I do realize we are the exception and not the rule, but it truly caught us off guard. Like you we had a trip planned and we had to postpone it and then eventually cancel it (our wasn't something we had prepaid for so we were out the experience and not money). We made plans for a totally different trip and look forward to traveling again!
DAVIDnRENEE said
02:02 PM Dec 15, 2013
Well folks...after 31 days WE FINALLY TOOK OWNERSHIP LAST NIGHT!!!!! We arrived at our dealership @ 10 AM and left with our new RV hooked to our truck @ 6:15 PM. We were ecstatic to wake up in this new, beautiful RV!! While we did find a few issues while doing our own PDI (completed documented by the tech staff) they did not interfere with us leaving the dealership with our new RV behind us!! While 90% of our initial issues were cosmetic and not operating issues or appliance issues they kept our RV at the dealership for a month after arrival from the factory. I feel very confident in our dealership to complete each and every issue with our RV, and I feel we will be 100% satisfied by the end. I will continue to keep folks updated on the forum (and I did share with each and every person we came in contact with [at the dealership] yesterday that I was active on a few forums and had documented our concerns, frustrations and compliments as well). We do want to thank everyone who read and responded to this thread.
jrzygrl64 said
02:51 PM Dec 15, 2013
Congrat's! Can't wait to see some pics! I'm very glad that ugly chapter waiting to take your new home with you is over! Wishing you many years of happy trails!
Kelly and Bill
DAVIDnRENEE said
10:38 PM Dec 15, 2013
Thank you Kelly and Bill!!
We did discover water that is seeping out under the shower after we each showered today. We'll contact the dealer in the AM for directions as what to do next. We are running the dishwasher and washer to check for leaks with those appliances. We really like the auto leveling system...worked like a charm! It was wonderful to wake up in our new RV!
My husband and I ordered a DRV 5th wheel this summer only to have it delivered November 13, 2013 to the dealership with NUMEROUS problems! We are aware of the fact that when folks (ourselves included) look at RVs on dealership lots all of the problems or "kinks" have been worked out prior to them being put on the lot. However, have any of you folks ordered custom RVs only to have problems (from the factory) keep you from taking immediate ownership (after the thorough PDI is completed of course)? We understand the possibility of problems occurring while in transit from the factory to the dealer, but the amount of problems that LEFT the factory is disheartening! We hope to take ownership FINALLY December 10!! We still will not have the specific couch we ordered at that date. That will not be in until the end of the year or possibly later!!! Please share any comments or experiences if you've ordered RVs before...THANKS!
DavidnRenee,
We didn't custom order ours but we did take possession as soon as it hit the lot. We did a thorough PDI and spent the next week on the dealers lot to try and ensure everything worked correctly. The end result was that we have had numerous problems and several are clearly manufacturing issues. We've had several water problems like leaking fresh water tank and the washer drain pipe not being glued. Our air conditioner wasn't cooling properly and the dealer took it apart and found baffling in the air duct that was installed incorrectly. Even with that correction the AC unit still needs to be replaced. On top of that, we have a couple dozen other less critical but still frustrating problems to be corrected. We too felt we were purchasing a top of the line unit, highly touted by many, and were extremely surprised and disappointed at the poor workmanship from the DRV factory.
I could not agree with GENECOP more! I follow blogs, such as this one: http://robandmeinourlittlerv.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-little-rv-experiences-severe.html. You may want to read it, as well as the updates. They are DRV owners, as well. Don't pull out until you are COMPLETELY satisfied, IMHO! Best of luck!
P.S. I can see Terry scratching his head now!
D and M...
We completely understand! We did a lot of research before deciding on a DRV product. We currently own a 2009 Forest River Cardinal and have been pleased with it, but we are going to be full time since selling our home and wanted a "higher end" unit. We were just displeased (and shocked) with the issues that obviously left the factory that way. We did have a few issues that occurred in transit (and we expected small issues) that also need to be addressed. We just wanted to make sure our issues were REPLACED vs being repaired. We had been told the thorough PDI would take 4-5 days, but our RV has been at the dealership for 19 days and still isn't completed!!!!!! We did take a second trip to see it and are pleased with the progress. The service technicians are working to completely make us happy! We will stay in a nearby RV park once we take ownership (at the expense of the dealership) to test the products and see if we have additional questions ourselves. I know we saw our RV almost immediately upon arrival and the service department didn't have time to "hide" some flaws, but we were just shocked that DRV allowed our RV to leave the factory the way it did. We have spoken to Kyle Miller (@ DRV), and he acknowledged that is an area that needs to be improved @ DRV. We toured the factory in September (and physically saw and looked in our RV) and were quite pleased with what we saw, so it just caught us off guard when we walked in our RV on the dealership lot!!
GENECOP, Mary Sunshine, and SnowGypsy...
I don't know if buying non-American is necessarily the answer, but possibly holding American products to a higher standard and not being willing to settle for less!!! I try (and prefer to buy American made) but realize that is not always an option. Let's just hope we pick up the pace (with regard to products and quality) and run with it!!!
Oops! My bad! When I agreed with GENECOP, I meant that quality has been slipping for years. Would I rather buy American? You bet I would. Good luck with your unit, Renee and David! Can't wait to hear how it all turns out.
After going over our list, we agreed to accept the rig if he got confirmation from DRV that we could show up in the morning and they would fix the (way too many) things that were wrong. DRV agreed and we headed to Indiana. We spent almost a week there getting Things fixed and had to go bwck a month later to finish it up.
Although there's no way that these problems should have happened to begin with, DRV was at least good to work with to get them fixed. A couple of the problems were the fault of the dealer, but not many.
Would we order another? I'd think about it pretty hard. In the last year we haven't had many issues, other than an AC that died 3 months out of warranty.
Most of the problems we had were component problems, not "build" issues.
Sue
Actually, I'm not scratching my head. The issues of quality control goes on in many industries. At one time in my life, I even worked for a few months as a car salesman. When the discussion came up of a vehicle having a problem from the factory, one of the older salesmen stated, "Well, keep in mind that even Rolls Royce has service departments."
It isn't an easy thing to do, but one thing that can make a big difference with the purchase of any product is to know the dealer or business from which one is buying their product. I've heard of cases where dealerships have been known to blame issues on the factory that were actually caused by the dealership. Also, having been in sales, I am fully aware that any salesman must be able to demonstrate their honest interest in the needs of the customer, and if they can't, then maybe then need a different career path. I've personally known salesmen that were "top sellers," but sold a lot of products by being somewhat, if not outright, dishonest about the product.
When many of us mention that one find owners association forums in order to learn about any issues with a product, we know that there are also times when one will learn of exceptional dealerships and those that aren't. Even good brand names can have lousy dealerships, and DRV is no different.
Sadly, I can't say that any manufacturer is exempt from having problems and at some point, many do learn that they are beginning to get a bad reputation. While DRV has had some issues, I do know that they also try to address the problems. There are lots of folks on the forums related to DRV owners that really do praise the factory for doing the right thing. So, if something isn't being done exactly up to snuff, it just might be the dealership.
Terry
Those of us old enough to remember the new car industry in the 60's remember the poor quality of American cars then. It was very common to buy a new car and drive it for 30 days while making a long list of problems for the dealer to fix. Sound familiar with today's RV units?
Enter the foreign cars. Quality of American cars is way up and technology is getting better everyday because of the competition. Buying a new car and making a repair list is virtually unheard of today.
I still try to buy American, but that is another issue.
I sure hope they come thru and fix your problems
Just a short note on this subject. I spent 34 years in the passenger rail car/locomotive manufacturing industry. The situation I see here is that there is a lack of leadership in the company. Production will always try to push stuff out the door. In a true quality lead organization each issue found by the inspectors would be brought back to where the problems occurred and a corrective action taken. Corrective action means that a plan is made so the issue doesn't happen again. This is clearly not happening in the RV industry.
Unfortunately, that is true....especially on RVs. Some come out good. Some come out with more issues. None are perfect - even the custom built ones. They are all hand built. The middle to upper middle lines that add lots of glitz tend to sacrifice on the structure/infrastructure. Basically all RV appliances and most of the purchased infrastructure elements - like furnaces, etc - are almost all built as cheaply as possible. It is amazing they work as well as they do. I try to stay away from "RV Junk" appliances as much as possible. Although sometimes you make a tradeoff on price/quality knowingly.
While I understand that manufacturers put out different levels of product to meet different buyer's budgets and needs, I am astounded that many RV manufacturers seem unaware today how damaging various digital forum and blog reviews can damage their reputation. Guess I grew up in a different age where reputation mattered.
I know, I'm naive!
Sherry
This is sort of scary. My hubby is NOT Mr. fix it and we do not want to have to be fixing things all the time. I expect some thing to need repair, but if I bought a new house things should work for a couple of years before I had to call a repair man.
Keep in mind there are many DVR's that come out without problems......ALL brands have issues , you are just reading these.
its kinda like buying a stick and brick......when you buy a used home it comes with the fixer upper.......buy a new home and it comes with several punch lists...
buy a new car same problem..(some cars cost millions)
you should see the problems a QC inspector has at the Toilet paper factory!!!!
Remember .....if you can look at, it hold it or dream it........there is a repairman in the wings and an App. for that!!!
These reports just give me the hebegebees. The DRV owner’s forum doesn't seem to have any stories of this magnitude, but it is a very small forum. In the link the Sunshine Mary posted, those folks have been fighting their battle for 18 months. If these problems are a result of DRV growth and success they may be just starting to show up, maybe in the last year or so. Even with several Google searches I could not come up with the blog Mary showed us.
About a month ago Fran and I went looking specifically at DRV. We were ready to be impressed. The units we looked at in the MS and Traditions lines had some nice features, plenty of bling but we walked out thinking that someone will get hurt with the way some of the bath doors opened onto the stairs and they were all just a bit ragged. At 1½ to twice the cost of our Montana, we just didn’t see the value. And now with these stories we crossed DRV off our list.
We are going to look at Excel and Artic Fox.
Like Mike said, all brands will have their problems. And, he also alluded to the fact that forums, especially owner's forums, will tend to "draw" participants that are looking for a solution to a problem that they are having. Something else to think of is that I would imagine that there are a lot more folks that aren't having problems at all. Since we are owners of a DRV and that I am involved on two different forums that are related to that brand, I can say that there are more than 6000 of those DRV products out there, but the forums likely have less than 100 to 200 people that really participate there.
I've stated this several times and it never goes out of date. If one registers on a forum to ask their own questions, there is one question that I suggest people ask. That question would be directed to the owners of the brand in question. Since we are talking about DRV's, I'll use then as an example in the question: "If you were to buy another RV would you buy a DRV Suites product again?" In my experiences with that question, I get a LOT more folks saying they would buy a DRV again.
We made the decision to buy a Mobile Suites because we knew we would be living in this trailer for "a lot of years to come." We also knew we were going to be living where it gets cold and wanted something that had the thicker walls and more insulation than the normal RV's. So far, we've been in temps as low as 14 degrees and as high as 115 and stayed comfortable. Now, we are scheduled to REALLY TEST that within the next week. Earlier today, I saw a report that one morning next week we should see a low of -2 degrees. However, a more recent look at their website shows that they are now saying +7 degrees for the lows.
I guess we shall really put the test to this trailer before we move to the Colorado Springs area next summer. As I write this, it is 21 degrees outside, 54.7 degrees in the underbelly area, and a balmy 71 degrees inside.
Terry
We’ve been to the Excel plant and have done what we consider a lot of first hand – eyes on - research. The Excel built quality is really good in our opinion and we’ve been to a lot of plants. Nice options that actually matter - in our opinion - and a “tank” for a frame. I would strongly consider going to the factory and checking out any you are considering. The plant tour won’t tell you everything, but after you do a few plant walk thoughts it will become more evident as to the build quality and quality control. Pay no attention, in our opinion, to the pretty insides or the paint as such. They all look "pretty" these days. It's under what counts. Take a close look at a rig under construction and see what’s really behind the walls, especially as pertains to the electrical where many times it will never be seen.
Bill
Bill, sound advice! My son lives in Minneapolis, don't know how they survive the winters, but are headed up for a visit in the spring. Thought we would stop by Excel and New Horizons on the way up.
Scott, since you are going through the area Spacecraft is not too far from New Horizons. Depends on how your travel route takes you , but you might want to consider a visit there, as well.
If you want to see how the frame on a New Horizons is built - a Majestic frame, anyway - take a look here. There is a reason why a New Horizons or a Spacecraft is so heavy. They have heavier frames to start with, and they use heavier (higher quality) materials for the rest of the coach. To a very large extent, you DO get what you pay for.
Jack's comment about looking at the frame construction is well taken. When we were touring factories a few years ago we were partial to one builder, and actually thought that we'd end up with one of that company's products, albeit used rather than new. After touring the DRV factory, though, we quickly saw the shortcuts that our "favorite" took, and crossed them off the list. The biggest difference was in the frame construction. Yes, there was a price and weight difference, but not as much as we thought there would be. Since we would be buying used anyway, it just meant that we would be looking at a DRV that was a couple of years older than the other brand. Since we ended up with a 20-year-old coach, age doesn't mean that much to us. Quality does.
I did post a very similar thread on the Suites Owners' forum site as well. I cannot recall which area I posted it under (possibly community chat).
We understand that with any product (RV, vehicles, ATV, motorcycles, homes, etc) there is a potential to have problems immediately. With RVs because so many products (from other manufacturers) are used within the units there is possibly a larger potential to have problems (RV manufacturers cannot control quality of the products they use [until there is a large enough problem with one to cause them to discontinue their usage]). We guess our biggest gripe was how the factory allowed the RV to leave its lot looking (cosmetic issues) the way it did. It didn't take a very thorough eye to spot the numerous mishaps with our RV. The DRV rep did tell us that some of their PDI employees have become complacent and often overlook these mishaps. Again, because we have not taken ownership of our unit we are not aware of any potential problems with the appliances, satellite, slides, generator, etc (other than the issue with the toilet discovered by the dealer). IWe honestly hope that mechanical problems are few to none (especially since the cosmetic issues were great), and that we have nothing but great news to share once we actually take ownership of our RV. As with the purchase of our other 2 previous RVs we too have completed extensive research on numerous brands. Like we read in an earlier post - no product is going to be 100% free from defects or flaws. Best word of advice is to do the best research you can and make a decision that is best for you and your family. Good luck to everyone making a new RV purchase, enjoying their current RV, or contemplating the purchase of an RV.
We toured the factory in September, but it never occurred to us to ask the question relating to the employees' work schedule. Everyone was working - what looked like diligently -but it was early in the AM. I did read a previous post (on another thread) that mentioned the employees were allowed to leave once their job was completed while receiving a full day's pay. I have not verified that, but the consensus was the quality would possibly suffer if someone knows they get to leave early (and still get full pay) because they would "slap" the RVs together...scary thought! However, since we are still waiting to take ownership of our new RV (26 days and counting) since it arrived at the dealership. I had positive things to say about the dealership and both Kyle Miller and Chad Olinger @ DRV last night while updating my post, but today is another thing!!! We found out we are no further along today than we were a month ago!!!!!! We called Chad (head of customer service) this AM, and still haven't received a call back today (and they are closed since it's way after 4 their time)! We are beginning to rethink our DRV purchase and contemplating looking AGAIN at other high end RVs.
SnowGypsy...
This DRV RV is our 3rd RV. Our 2nd RV, which we currently still have, is a Forest River Cardinal. We love it, but wanted to upgrade now that we sold our home. We are going to be full timers and travel to work camp so we wanted something - we thought (and still hope!!!) is made very well and with awesome quality. Again, the issues we have now (that have prevented us from taking ownership) are cosmetics and not necessarily durability (fingers crossed we don't find any once we take ownership!!). We do know the toilet has to be replaced but to our knowledge that is the only problem (discovered by the service department). We have told several people that we had little to no problems with our Cardinal...go figure!!
GENECOP...
That is a very viable option we probably wish we had considered before now. We did tell the dealership that if we had wanted everything (needing cosmetic help) repaired vs replaced - we would have bought a pre-owned unit and had them repair (and possibly quicker but hopefully not better) than our new RV. We'll just have to see. Since today (2nd supposedly take ownership day has come and gone) did not transpire we have now been told Friday is the (3rd time is hopefully the charm) new pick up day. We'll let everyone know if we get to hook up to our RV, and we'll report how all looks as well.
-- Edited by DAVIDnRENEE on Tuesday 10th of December 2013 08:49:06 PM
-- Edited by DAVIDnRENEE on Tuesday 10th of December 2013 08:49:42 PM
SnowGypsy...
THANK YOU!!
The date has actually been moved once again but only to Saturday. The recent wintry weather postponed delivery of our item shipped from the factory. One set of items arrived yesterday, but the other package is scheduled for today by "close of busines." We are going to give them an extra day to complete everything. Plus, weather is not forecasted to be agreeable tomorrow (70% chance of rain @ the dealershp [100% chance @ home]), but it is forecasted to be beautiful Saturday!!!! We are excited and many of the dealership "higer ups" are scheduled to be there as well. I guess all of the problems and delays was brought to the attention of many who want to wish us well on our maiden voyage...
I'll keep everyone updated as to how it goes!
Thank you for this thread. We decided to special order and because of this thread and our upcoming Tennessee rally commitment that if the unit was not ready by that week the dealer would provide a comparable loaner unit until it was. The salesperson looked at me like I had two heads when I suggested it could come from the manufacturer wrong, but I held my ground and finally he called the owner in who agreed. Crazy but knowing your experience really helped me stand up so thank you
-- Edited by Trace on Sunday 15th of December 2013 08:12:27 AM
I'm glad to hear that Trace! We never dreamed our brand new RV would have had issues that delayed us taking ownership immediately once the initial PDI was completed. I do realize we are the exception and not the rule, but it truly caught us off guard. Like you we had a trip planned and we had to postpone it and then eventually cancel it (our wasn't something we had prepaid for so we were out the experience and not money). We made plans for a totally different trip and look forward to traveling again!
Congrat's! Can't wait to see some pics! I'm very glad that ugly chapter waiting to take your new home with you is over! Wishing you many years of happy trails!
Kelly and Bill
Thank you Kelly and Bill!!
We did discover water that is seeping out under the shower after we each showered today. We'll contact the dealer in the AM for directions as what to do next. We are running the dishwasher and washer to check for leaks with those appliances. We really like the auto leveling system...worked like a charm! It was wonderful to wake up in our new RV!