If you are planning to keep an RV for some length of time, the warranty runs out at which time the workmanship and materials become very important. It is funny really because years ago, I had an accounting teacher in college and he had worked at a battery factory and he said, all the batteries were the same and they just put different warranties, 1 year, 2 year, etc. and priced accordingly. To me, a warranty is pretty much the manufacturer betting the product will last that long and they come pretty close because how many things fail just a couple of months after the warranty is up? I once did some computations on the difference in buying a high end versus a low end, how many times you could replace the low end one versus the high end one taking into consideration replacement of appliances, tires, etc. over the years on the high end whose structure should last longer but maybe not. I love math!
So, my experience is that the winner that most likely will meet our expectations is mid-level price, aluminum-skinned and no OSB but for others, their expectations/experiences will be different. That doesn't make anyone wrong, just different and that is why there are so many choices.
Additionally, we became debt-free by weighing our choices carefully and choosing those items that we could most likely maintain under "do it yourself", sidewalls delaming isn't a "do it yourself" project and neither is OSB degrading. Buying anything has some risk involved. Last year we bought a house built in 1927 not a choice for everyone else either.
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Wednesday 30th of October 2013 08:09:40 PM
SnowGypsy said
01:20 PM Oct 30, 2013
Having had a few RVs and seeing many, many more both new and used, we are going to go with an aluminum-sided trailer. The three manufacturers that I know of have all been in business for some time, having passed my "test of time" requirement, and produce rather classic/plain interiors/exteriors which we prefer. This thing with delamination for us is a deal breaker since we plan to buy, travel and eventually park and live in our unit. So, what we are looking at: 1. Taylor Coach and they make travel trailers up to 24' in Canada, have a website and youtube video tours online. 2. Allen Coach in Oklahoma and they TT, 5th and park models and I have seen used models of some years on the internet and they still look solid, they have a website and appear to be able to customize. 3. Airstream which everyone is aware of although I like the vintage better with those. If anyone is aware of any other mid-level aluminum-sided trailers, I would appreciate that info being passed on as I know that often there are smaller regional manufacturers that many never hear of.
Lucky Mike said
02:27 PM Oct 30, 2013
you could go out and buy a brand new provost coach for millions and it will have problems....in fact most of its problems will be lack of care and preventative maintenance issues.
dont let De-lamination issues scare you off. you see the bad because people only complain about bad....if you could take an honest poll of those that really take preventative measures to keep there coach in top shape consistently you would find the numbers low....the old additive.."If it ain't broke ,don't fix it" .keeps them from looking for problems and preventing them before they occur.
Whether it be a Travel trailer or a motor coach...it is going down the road feeling the affects of a major earthquake as it moves down the highway....seams loosen....sealant separates.....things crack....and due to extreme changes in environment things happen.
aluminum sided units still leak if not cared for just as fast as fiberglass...On a new unit , it passed down an assembly line....after a few parts are added it goes thru its first Quality control inspection and then it moves on to its next process to be repeated....quality control is only as good as the frame of mind and attention the inspector is putting forward at that moment.....it is also only as good as Joe shmo is feeling while he does his part to build it.
all units are built on an equal standard and it doesnt matter if you paid 10k or 10 m......address the problems before they occur and they wont.........listen to someone else s problems and they will become yours if you dont educate and put a plan in place for yourself......but the work will still be there and it has to be done
Bill and Linda said
02:35 PM Oct 30, 2013
Being a long time Airstream family I agree about the “vintage” Airstreams.If I were getting another one (we still have a 34’ Excella 1000) I would purchase an older one and renovate it.There a lot out there for very modest prices.Most Airstreamers will agree that if you know how and where to get the renovations completed, the older ones are “better.”
If reasonably cared for an Airstream doesn’t wear out as far as the frame and skin is concerned.You just update the interior, appliances, electrical, etc.Some have even put solar on them.Very cool and they are relatively light.A “heavy” Airstreams is like 10,000lbs.(Generic statement)
Funny thing is that Airstream has the same “type” of suspension system (trailing link) that MOR/ryde is building today.They were way ahead of their time.
Bill
Bill and Linda said
02:42 PM Oct 30, 2013
Lucky Mike wrote:
you could go out and buy a brand new provost coach for millions and it will have problems....in fact most of its problems will be lack of care and preventative maintenance issues.
dont let De-lamination issues scare you off. you see the bad because people only complain about bad....if you could take an honest poll of those that really take preventative measures to keep there coach in top shape consistently you would find the numbers low....the old additive.."If it ain't broke ,don't fix it" .keeps them from looking for problems and preventing them before they occur.
Whether it be a Travel trailer or a motor coach...it is going down the road feeling the affects of a major earthquake as it moves down the highway....seams loosen....sealant separates.....things crack....and due to extreme changes in environment things happen.
aluminum sided units still leak if not cared for just as fast as fiberglass...On a new unit , it passed down an assembly line....after a few parts are added it goes thru its first Quality control inspection and then it moves on to its next process to be repeated....quality control is only as good as the frame of mind and attention the inspector is putting forward at that moment.....it is also only as good as Joe shmo is feeling while he does his part to build it.
all units are built on an equal standard and it doesnt matter if you paid 10k or 10 m......address the problems before they occur and they wont.........listen to someone else s problems and they will become yours if you dont educate and put a plan in place for yourself......but the work will still be there and it has to be done
Mike, can I offer an “Amen” to that.Just like a S&B, actually more so, these things require care and maintenance no matter the cost.I’ve seen major problems with brands from New Horizons to DRV / Mobile Suites to KZ to HR to Jayco, etc. etc.Like you, we’ve been around a lot of RVs and their factories.Purchase price was not the determining factor with most of these problems.In some cases it was maintenance and in some cases, even with very high end units, it was manufacturing error or simply a lack of competence to build what they said they could build.But the question was, in the case of manufacturing or material, did the builder step up and fix the problem and did the owner do their part and make the manufacturer aware of the problem before it got so bad it was almost impossible to fix.
If you don’t care of these rigs before they get in big trouble, you will have big trouble.And water is the number one trouble maker for any RV, IMO.
My perspective and opinion
Bill
SnowGypsy said
04:18 PM Oct 30, 2013
On RV number 8, having spent 2 years living full-time in NC, 2 in AZ and some extended stays, we are pretty sure what we want. I have been looking at RVs since realizing that people full-timed, about 24 years at this point. Oh, and another reason for our choices is no OSB. And, yes, I know, I know but when it gets wet and I don't care how much maintenance you do, leaks can happen and once they happen the material degrades quickly not to mention that a plumbing leak can often not be predicted. If you look at the construction and condition of the trailers and motorhomes from the 60s to maybe mid-1970, it was good and made to last and it has. I see a lot of models and manufacturers come and go, mostly go these days thus my "test of time" requirement. Service after the sale is fine but not in the case that they screwed something up, pushed it out the door with the attitude that the dealer can take care of it. Not just RVs, this is all too common across the board.
We had friends with a Nu-Wa that developed a moisture problem that they could not track. No one was able to figure out what the problem was. They tried a few different things. Well, I did locate a thread where someone had the problem, diagnosed it and found a fix which they detailed but, by this time, a lot of damage was done to the unit. Nu-Wa, as everyone knows, had some issues and closed it doors. It was at one time, a great trailer with many of their very early units still on the road but it doesn't take much where re-doing is necessary under warranty to knock a struggling company out of the market.
Being frugal and stubborn, these are just my thoughts.
Jack Mayer said
04:39 PM Oct 30, 2013
Bill and Linda wrote:
Mike, can I offer an “Amen” to that.Just like a S&B, actually more so, these things require care and maintenance no matter the cost.I’ve seen major problems with brands from New Horizons to DRV / Mobile Suites to KZ to HR to Jayco, etc. etc.Like you, we’ve been around a lot of RVs and their factories.Purchase price was not the determining factor with most of these problems.In some cases it was maintenance and in some cases, even with very high end units, it was manufacturing error or simply a lack of competence to build what they said they could build.But the question was, in the case of manufacturing or material, did the builder step up and fix the problem and did the owner do their part and make the manufacturer aware of the problem before it got so bad it was almost impossible to fix.
If you don’t care of these rigs before they get in big trouble, you will have big trouble.And water is the number one trouble maker for any RV, IMO.
My perspective and opinion
Bill
Bill is spot on. All RVs can have issues - I don't care who the manufacturer is. ALL RVs are hand built - not like a car on an automated production line. How the manufacturer warrants the product does say something about the product. And how the manufacturer handles "issues" is important to understand.
el Rojo and Pam said
06:08 PM Oct 30, 2013
Jack May
Bill is spot on. All RVs can have issues - I don't care who the manufacturer is. ALL RVs are hand built - not like a car on an automated production line. How the manufacturer warrants the product does say something about the product. And how the manufacturer handles "issues" is important to understand.
If you are planning to keep an RV for some length of time, the warranty runs out at which time the workmanship and materials become very important. It is funny really because years ago, I had an accounting teacher in college and he had worked at a battery factory and he said, all the batteries were the same and they just put different warranties, 1 year, 2 year, etc. and priced accordingly. To me, a warranty is pretty much the manufacturer betting the product will last that long and they come pretty close because how many things fail just a couple of months after the warranty is up? I once did some computations on the difference in buying a high end versus a low end, how many times you could replace the low end one versus the high end one taking into consideration replacement of appliances, tires, etc. over the years on the high end whose structure should last longer but maybe not. I love math!
So, my experience is that the winner that most likely will meet our expectations is mid-level price, aluminum-skinned and no OSB but for others, their expectations/experiences will be different. That doesn't make anyone wrong, just different and that is why there are so many choices.
Additionally, we became debt-free by weighing our choices carefully and choosing those items that we could most likely maintain under "do it yourself", sidewalls delaming isn't a "do it yourself" project and neither is OSB degrading. Buying anything has some risk involved. Last year we bought a house built in 1927 not a choice for everyone else either.
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Wednesday 30th of October 2013 08:09:40 PM
Having had a few RVs and seeing many, many more both new and used, we are going to go with an aluminum-sided trailer. The three manufacturers that I know of have all been in business for some time, having passed my "test of time" requirement, and produce rather classic/plain interiors/exteriors which we prefer. This thing with delamination for us is a deal breaker since we plan to buy, travel and eventually park and live in our unit. So, what we are looking at: 1. Taylor Coach and they make travel trailers up to 24' in Canada, have a website and youtube video tours online. 2. Allen Coach in Oklahoma and they TT, 5th and park models and I have seen used models of some years on the internet and they still look solid, they have a website and appear to be able to customize. 3. Airstream which everyone is aware of although I like the vintage better with those. If anyone is aware of any other mid-level aluminum-sided trailers, I would appreciate that info being passed on as I know that often there are smaller regional manufacturers that many never hear of.
dont let De-lamination issues scare you off. you see the bad because people only complain about bad....if you could take an honest poll of those that really take preventative measures to keep there coach in top shape consistently you would find the numbers low....the old additive.."If it ain't broke ,don't fix it" .keeps them from looking for problems and preventing them before they occur.
Whether it be a Travel trailer or a motor coach...it is going down the road feeling the affects of a major earthquake as it moves down the highway....seams loosen....sealant separates.....things crack....and due to extreme changes in environment things happen.
aluminum sided units still leak if not cared for just as fast as fiberglass...On a new unit , it passed down an assembly line....after a few parts are added it goes thru its first Quality control inspection and then it moves on to its next process to be repeated....quality control is only as good as the frame of mind and attention the inspector is putting forward at that moment.....it is also only as good as Joe shmo is feeling while he does his part to build it.
all units are built on an equal standard and it doesnt matter if you paid 10k or 10 m......address the problems before they occur and they wont.........listen to someone else s problems and they will become yours if you dont educate and put a plan in place for yourself......but the work will still be there and it has to be done
Being a long time Airstream family I agree about the “vintage” Airstreams. If I were getting another one (we still have a 34’ Excella 1000) I would purchase an older one and renovate it. There a lot out there for very modest prices. Most Airstreamers will agree that if you know how and where to get the renovations completed, the older ones are “better.”
If reasonably cared for an Airstream doesn’t wear out as far as the frame and skin is concerned. You just update the interior, appliances, electrical, etc. Some have even put solar on them. Very cool and they are relatively light. A “heavy” Airstreams is like 10,000lbs. (Generic statement)
Funny thing is that Airstream has the same “type” of suspension system (trailing link) that MOR/ryde is building today. They were way ahead of their time.
Bill
Mike, can I offer an “Amen” to that. Just like a S&B, actually more so, these things require care and maintenance no matter the cost. I’ve seen major problems with brands from New Horizons to DRV / Mobile Suites to KZ to HR to Jayco, etc. etc. Like you, we’ve been around a lot of RVs and their factories. Purchase price was not the determining factor with most of these problems. In some cases it was maintenance and in some cases, even with very high end units, it was manufacturing error or simply a lack of competence to build what they said they could build. But the question was, in the case of manufacturing or material, did the builder step up and fix the problem and did the owner do their part and make the manufacturer aware of the problem before it got so bad it was almost impossible to fix.
If you don’t care of these rigs before they get in big trouble, you will have big trouble. And water is the number one trouble maker for any RV, IMO.
My perspective and opinion
Bill
We had friends with a Nu-Wa that developed a moisture problem that they could not track. No one was able to figure out what the problem was. They tried a few different things. Well, I did locate a thread where someone had the problem, diagnosed it and found a fix which they detailed but, by this time, a lot of damage was done to the unit. Nu-Wa, as everyone knows, had some issues and closed it doors. It was at one time, a great trailer with many of their very early units still on the road but it doesn't take much where re-doing is necessary under warranty to knock a struggling company out of the market.
Being frugal and stubborn, these are just my thoughts.
Bill is spot on. All RVs can have issues - I don't care who the manufacturer is. ALL RVs are hand built - not like a car on an automated production line. How the manufacturer warrants the product does say something about the product. And how the manufacturer handles "issues" is important to understand.
This is as important as the purchase price IMHO.