Looks like our route is changing again and we'll be heading east out of Moab UT in a couple of weeks headed towards New Horizons in Junction City KS…which means taking I-70 straight east from Grand Junction through Denver.
Looking at the wiki and grades on this route…it looks like the max grade is 7% on Vail Pass and 6% on the approaches to the Eisenhower Tunnel. In addition; the height limitation for the tunnel is 13'11".
Our New Horizons is 13'4" with maybe an additional inch once I air up the air hitch; so height wise we're fine (albeit a little tighter on vertical clearance than I really like to have, but it is what it is I guess)…and we've had no issues with grades up to 9% on our journeys through the Canadian Rockies.
Given that…is there anything else to worry about on this route? Does anybody know if the tunnel roof is round or flat…if the former then does the listed clearance the minimum over at the lane outer edges or the number at the center…just wondering if I would need to hug the centerline on the way through. The alternate route is Loveland Pass…is this something we should consider or do I just need to suck it up and take the tunnel and grit my teeth?
Thanks.
-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Thursday 19th of September 2013 09:42:36 PM
Cindy T said
06:15 AM Sep 20, 2013
Just plan on going thru the tunnel, going over Loveland Pass would be more of a teeth-gritter & unnecessary.
Here's a link to the CDOT (Colo Dept of Transportation) cameras so you can see the tunnel.
-- Edited by Cindy T on Friday 20th of September 2013 06:33:54 AM
folivier said
02:23 PM Sep 20, 2013
Are they finished with the road construction on I-70?
Earlier this summer there were detours around the tunnel.
Any other problems due to the flooding?
We're in Salt Lake City and need to head east to northeast Oklahoma in a couple weeks but looking at I-80 instead. Unless there are early winter storms.
Jack Mayer said
02:33 PM Sep 20, 2013
Neil you will not have any tunnel issues. There is lots of space.
You might want to plan to hit Denver during non-rush hours. You will be slow going through. I'd plan on a weekend if that works for your schedule. I70 will be slow, but you will get there. We usually stop in Oakley at High Plains on the way.
sdman said
03:46 PM Sep 20, 2013
We are on I70 in Gypsum CO right now heading to Moab UT. We came through the Eisenhower tunnel Wednesday the 18th. We are only 12' 10" so we didn't have any issues. The tunnel top is flat by the way. Jack is right about traffic, we left Denver at Noon and there was quite a bit of traffic in both directions then. The short tunnel after the Eisenhower going east is only using one tube of two right now as they are working on the eastbound side. Traffic is detoured around the tunnel going east.
Cold here this morning at 36!
Mark
MarkS said
07:51 PM Sep 20, 2013
Semis go through the tunnel all the time and they are taller than an RV. My truck is 13'3".
Bill and Linda said
08:46 PM Sep 20, 2013
X3 or X4Not a problem.Just drove the route a couple of weeks ago. Not a problem at all.However, we drove it on a Sunday and there was a lot of traffic backup coming from the Vail area.Some of it due maybe to construction on the east bound side of the road. Not stopped - just a lot of slow traffic.I would suspect a lot of this traffic was due to it being the last weekend of summer and a great many people were returning east from the Vail area toward Denver.That was our take as the east bound lanes were open, just a lot of traffic.
As to the mountains and tunnels: not a big deal at all for our rig - up, down or thru.
Bill
Neil and Connie said
03:42 AM Sep 25, 2013
Thanks all; we'll take 70 and the tunnel unless Connie changes her mind again…she's thinking about going through Durango, Sante Fe, and Amarillo instead to get to Junction City. It's a couple hundred miles longer that way but she's always wanted to visit Sante Fe. We'll be heading through on a Thursday afternoon and leaving from Grand Junction it's 257 miles to our planned stop in Aurora at the Army base Famcamp…so that will put us through Denver in the early afternoon which should miss most of rush hour. At worst we'll just sit in traffic for awhile I guess. We will check the Colorado Roads site and also the camera site recommended by Cindy T to verify that there aren't any road closures due to snow or ice before heading across…Eisenhower Pass had snow and chains required a couple days ago but if the forecast is clear then there won't be much worry about that.
Terry and Jo said
02:18 PM Sep 25, 2013
Neil,
If you do go through Santa Fe, keep in mind that there is a bypass on the west side of the city that would be best for towing a large trailer. We took the route you just mentioned back in 2009 on our way to Pagosa Springs, and we ended up driving through Santa Fe itself on Highway 84. Fortunately, we were only towing a 26-foot trailer with an F250, but even with that, it was fun finding a place to fuel up with even that short of a rig. The bypass is labeled as Highway 599.
Terry
Neil and Connie said
12:53 AM Sep 27, 2013
Thanks Terry, we'll probably stay 1 extra day to look around Santa Fe if we go but will keep the bypass in mind.
MarkS said
08:10 PM Sep 27, 2013
Terry, after reading your post I think I finally figured out why there is so much conversation about carefully picking a route. You are all in the four wheeler mentality. Once I get squared away and start to attend some rally's I need to teach a course about shifting that mentality to big rigs. I pull 53' trailers and have a different mindset when I set out. I know I can't pull up to just any old pump but I navigate my way through towns and cities with little or no concern for my size. I have been in situations where I had my front bumper within a inch or two of a building and my steer tire on the sidewalk just to get the trailer to clear a phone pole on the opposite side of the street. I wouldn't have gone that way a second time but my point is that a huge 40' fifth wheel equates to about a twenty foot trailer because of the axle location. Once we shift your thinking to big rig from four wheeler, you will easily adapt to tight inner city streets and no longer have a phobia about picking routes. My goal is to make all of you comfortable about exploring without worrying about backing out do a bad situation. I should also teach a course on backing. Believe it or not, you can back your motorhome or fifth wheel into places you could never pull them into.
Bill and Linda said
12:46 AM Sep 28, 2013
Mark:
Well said and a very important point.I many times have a problem when I go into some campgrounds and the “parking committee” person has no clue about “square jacking” or walking the tractor (i.e. pickup truck) around an obstacle after I pull right up to it or even beyond it such as to set the trailer wheels where I need them to make a turn.I have to ask them to just indicate if I’m going to hit something, otherwise, please just watch and don’t wave your arms so much.
You teaching such as class would be very helpful toward the understanding of the geometry of a 5th wheel trailer and the location of the axles relative to the 5th wheel king pin.
I will make one other point – people need to be more concerned with a trailer “tilting” during a turn for whatever reason and the top leaning over into something, like a tree, while they are watching the wheels have plenty of clearance.Been a lot of telephone poles hit because of that little issue.
Thanks for your comments. Very important
Bill
Terry and Jo said
03:23 AM Sep 28, 2013
Mark,
Keep in mind that I've also driven 18-wheelers. I always mention being cautious of one's route and choosing a fuel stop simply because I've read a number of RV novices that have hit fuel pumps stanctions (not sure of that word - metal posts set in concrete at the edges of the corners of fuel islands), poles and even overhead covers. As for your "course," knowing the geometry would be fine, but until one has actually gotten the experience, I still suggest caution.
Terry
Jack Mayer said
11:09 PM Sep 29, 2013
Practice is what gives you the ability to make reasonable judgments about Iffy situations. Many/Most people that get larger RVs have not a clue as to how to maneuver and park them. I make that statement after watching them for 13+ years fulltiming, and working in campgrounds for much of those 13 years.
Like Mark said, it is not all that "difficult" to park a large rig, or maneuver it in most situations. It does take some experience. I do wish people would at least READ some commercial driving training literature and do a little practice with some cones.
Bill and Linda said
12:21 AM Sep 30, 2013
Jack Mayer wrote:
Practice is what gives you the ability to make reasonable judgments about Iffy situations. Many/Most people that get larger RVs have not a clue as to how to maneuver and park them. I make that statement after watching them for 13+ years fulltiming, and working in campgrounds for much of those 13 years.
Like Mark said, it is not all that "difficult" to park a large rig, or maneuver it in most situations. It does take some experience. I do wish people would at least READ some commercial driving training literature and do a little practice with some cones.
Jack and Mark:
So spot on.
One thing to bring to people’s attention who have pulled “bumper” trailers and then move to 5th wheels is the big difference between the two as to what the wheels of the trailer will do – and when – in both reverse and forward.They’re really different (due to the geometry) and that can cause someone who, for lack of a better word, “graduates” to a 5th wheel some surprises as to how they handle – and how to handle them.30 minutes in a big open parking lot can sure be worth a lot to someone starting out.
Both you guys should teach a course on that – and put some of that literature on your website – Jack.
Bill
NWescapee said
03:44 AM Oct 1, 2013
And that is a course I would sign up for in a heart beat!!! LOL, now that we sold the car after downsizing enough to get rid of it, (2 weeks ago), I am learning to drive the F450. So far I have not towed, Dale has been more than patient but a bit nervous with my learning to corner with a wider truck with dual wheels. I truly need to learn but my last towing experience was with a mini van and small (18 ft) TT. Yep, big learning curve ahead of me.
Terry and Jo said
05:32 AM Oct 1, 2013
NWescapee wrote:
And that is a course I would sign up for in a heart beat!!! LOL, now that we sold the car after downsizing enough to get rid of it, (2 weeks ago), I am learning to drive the F450. So far I have not towed, Dale has been more than patient but a bit nervous with my learning to corner with a wider truck with dual wheels. I truly need to learn but my last towing experience was with a mini van and small (18 ft) TT. Yep, big learning curve ahead of me.
Not meaning to get off-topic here, but the time you drove our F450, you didn't seem to have any problems at all. Granted, it wasn't in town, but I'll bet that before long your confidence level will be way up there. So, stick with it and don't be afraid to tow. Just do your first towing on either 4-lane roads or 2-lane with shoulders until that confidence builds.
Terry
el Rojo and Pam said
11:47 AM Oct 1, 2013
As a 20 year MH driver who graduated to a 5th wheel:
The best advice I got about driving a MH in skinny/construction lanes was to focus on the center stripe of the road and not the big concrete blocks on the passenger side. They said your vehicle will drift to the side you're looking at and by looking in the center of the road I have more confidence when driving in narrow lanes.
I've backed many TT style trailers ie. boat, cargo etc. all my adult life, BUT this 5th wheel is different. I've only had it since June. Mark I need your course!!!!
MarkS said
12:33 PM Oct 1, 2013
I would have a good time teaching backing techniques. One of the first rules is don't back the truck, steer the trailer. You never know where the truck will end up...steer the back end of the trailer, you know exactly where you want it. Put you hands on the bottom of the wheel, push it the direction you want the trailer to go. By the way, you guys in pickups don't have a blind side, I'll let you back my truck up. That will introduce you to a true blind side. But keep in mind, I don't have an automatic. It is against my religion to put an automatic in a semi. Sorry Jack. I can't change me. I still only use the clutch for starting and stopping. And not always stopping.
two additional rules, no matter how good you are, you will have to pull up to correct backing angles and, you will not always be able to get under it fast enough.
-- Edited by MarkS on Tuesday 1st of October 2013 12:38:15 PM
Bill and Linda said
05:58 PM Oct 1, 2013
el Rojo wrote:
I've backed many TT style trailers ie. boat, cargo etc. all my adult life, BUT this 5th wheel is different. I've only had it since June. Mark I need your course!!!!
This is what I was talking about when I referred to the “geometry” of the 5th wheel vs. a TT.It’s different and you sort of need to get into a big empty parking lot and practice.Try stuff with the truck and see what happens.Like you will notice it takes a lot more distance when backing to get the fiver trailer to start turning than with a TT.I could explain why, but the physics doesn’t matter. It’s getting in your head what you have to do that matters.And getting out and looking three times when parking is not unusual. If you can’t judge it in the mirrors, especially when doing a “blind back,” then get out and look.A quick look is worth the 30 seconds it takes and will help you have better perspective of where the rig really is going in relation to obstacles.Learn that “pulling up” to correct a backing angle is actually a professionally taught procedure.
And the little comment that you back a 5er into a spot that you can’t pull it out of is absolutely true in a few cases.Before I park a rig I always ask the question, now how do I get it out of here?That thinking has served me well over the years.
Just perspective FWIW
Mark, plan a class. I'll bet you'll get some takers. (Jack could do one as well, and maybe should.)
Bill
el Rojo and Pam said
08:21 PM Oct 1, 2013
Bill, thanks for your comments. I'm sure not afraid to get out an look when backing up.....a lot. Looking is cheap, hitting stuff isn't. Never thought about not getting out of a site though. And yes you loose the leverage at the trailer connection on a 5th wheel due to it being on top of the axle "if that makes sense".
el Rojo and Pam said
08:31 PM Oct 1, 2013
MarkS wrote:
One of the first rules is don't back the truck, steer the trailer. You never know where the truck will end up...steer the back end of the trailer, you know exactly where you want it. Put you hands on the bottom of the wheel, push it the direction you want the trailer to go.
two additional rules, no matter how good you are, you will have to pull up to correct backing angles and, you will not always be able to get under it fast enough.
-- Edited by MarkS on Tuesday 1st of October 2013 12:38:15 PM
Mark, I do steer the trailer, that part is the same. I guess for me it would be learning to pull up to the correct backing angle. And then staying ahead of the 5th wheel with its slower response time. I have a 90 degree angle to my drive way and a 30' wide street, a few times I have backed in perfect and never pulled forward. Most times however require back and forth travel. I'm not consistent yet.
Thanks for the comments, every little bit helps.
Red
Bill and Linda said
09:24 PM Oct 1, 2013
MarkS wrote:
I would have a good time teaching backing techniques. One of the first rules is don't back the truck, steer the trailer. You never know where the truck will end up...steer the back end of the trailer, you know exactly where you want it. Put you hands on the bottom of the wheel, push it the direction you want the trailer to go. By the way, you guys in pickups don't have a blind side, I'll let you back my truck up. That will introduce you to a true blind side. But keep in mind, I don't have an automatic. It is against my religion to put an automatic in a semi. Sorry Jack. I can't change me. I still only use the clutch for starting and stopping. And not always stopping.
two additional rules, no matter how good you are, you will have to pull up to correct backing angles and, you will not always be able to get under it fast enough.
-- Edited by MarkS on Tuesday 1st of October 2013 12:38:15 PM
Mark:
I understand the blind side in a semi is different from a pickup as I used to do what you did – just not for as long. Yep, it was a lot easier with a city tractor that had a rear window, like a pickup does, to back a trailer.When you can see it becomes so much easier. I was referring to backing the trailer to the curb side and but not being able to see around the street side of the trailer thus the street side becoming the blind side in so many words.
Your comments about steering the trailer and not the truck is very good advice.When I have taught someone to back a fiver that is the first thing I would advise.Drive the trailer, not the truck.But make sure you know where the front of the truck is going so as not to back it onto something.‘Must keep the head on a swivel.(Have a story where a driver of the remote truck in Atlanta stadium, not me, didn’t see a VW bug and backed the right front steer wheel of the tractor right up on the hood of that VW.He just didn’t see it. Except for the cost, pretty funny picture.)
Please keep the good advice to all coming.
Bill
PS, I learned to not use the clutch early on when I lost mine on the opposite side of the state.Had to learn in a hurry early on.Had to put the trans in a low gear and actually start the engine “in gear” and then knock it out of gear to stop.It was a long way home doing that but I made it. All good 'ole guy stories. I know you have many many more.
Terry and Jo said
01:30 AM Oct 2, 2013
Not to be picky, Guys, but we are now way off topic.
Looks like our route is changing again and we'll be heading east out of Moab UT in a couple of weeks headed towards New Horizons in Junction City KS…which means taking I-70 straight east from Grand Junction through Denver.
Looking at the wiki and grades on this route…it looks like the max grade is 7% on Vail Pass and 6% on the approaches to the Eisenhower Tunnel. In addition; the height limitation for the tunnel is 13'11".
Our New Horizons is 13'4" with maybe an additional inch once I air up the air hitch; so height wise we're fine (albeit a little tighter on vertical clearance than I really like to have, but it is what it is I guess)…and we've had no issues with grades up to 9% on our journeys through the Canadian Rockies.
Given that…is there anything else to worry about on this route? Does anybody know if the tunnel roof is round or flat…if the former then does the listed clearance the minimum over at the lane outer edges or the number at the center…just wondering if I would need to hug the centerline on the way through. The alternate route is Loveland Pass…is this something we should consider or do I just need to suck it up and take the tunnel and grit my teeth?
Thanks.
-- Edited by Neil and Connie on Thursday 19th of September 2013 09:42:36 PM
Just plan on going thru the tunnel, going over Loveland Pass would be more of a teeth-gritter & unnecessary.
Here's a link to the CDOT (Colo Dept of Transportation) cameras so you can see the tunnel.
http://www.cotrip.org/device.htm
-- Edited by Cindy T on Friday 20th of September 2013 06:33:54 AM
Earlier this summer there were detours around the tunnel.
Any other problems due to the flooding?
We're in Salt Lake City and need to head east to northeast Oklahoma in a couple weeks but looking at I-80 instead. Unless there are early winter storms.
You might want to plan to hit Denver during non-rush hours. You will be slow going through. I'd plan on a weekend if that works for your schedule. I70 will be slow, but you will get there. We usually stop in Oakley at High Plains on the way.
Cold here this morning at 36!
Mark
X3 or X4 Not a problem. Just drove the route a couple of weeks ago. Not a problem at all. However, we drove it on a Sunday and there was a lot of traffic backup coming from the Vail area. Some of it due maybe to construction on the east bound side of the road. Not stopped - just a lot of slow traffic. I would suspect a lot of this traffic was due to it being the last weekend of summer and a great many people were returning east from the Vail area toward Denver. That was our take as the east bound lanes were open, just a lot of traffic.
As to the mountains and tunnels: not a big deal at all for our rig - up, down or thru.
Bill
Thanks all; we'll take 70 and the tunnel unless Connie changes her mind again…she's thinking about going through Durango, Sante Fe, and Amarillo instead to get to Junction City. It's a couple hundred miles longer that way but she's always wanted to visit Sante Fe. We'll be heading through on a Thursday afternoon and leaving from Grand Junction it's 257 miles to our planned stop in Aurora at the Army base Famcamp…so that will put us through Denver in the early afternoon which should miss most of rush hour. At worst we'll just sit in traffic for awhile I guess. We will check the Colorado Roads site and also the camera site recommended by Cindy T to verify that there aren't any road closures due to snow or ice before heading across…Eisenhower Pass had snow and chains required a couple days ago but if the forecast is clear then there won't be much worry about that.
Neil,
If you do go through Santa Fe, keep in mind that there is a bypass on the west side of the city that would be best for towing a large trailer. We took the route you just mentioned back in 2009 on our way to Pagosa Springs, and we ended up driving through Santa Fe itself on Highway 84. Fortunately, we were only towing a 26-foot trailer with an F250, but even with that, it was fun finding a place to fuel up with even that short of a rig. The bypass is labeled as Highway 599.
Terry
Thanks Terry, we'll probably stay 1 extra day to look around Santa Fe if we go but will keep the bypass in mind.
Mark:
Well said and a very important point. I many times have a problem when I go into some campgrounds and the “parking committee” person has no clue about “square jacking” or walking the tractor (i.e. pickup truck) around an obstacle after I pull right up to it or even beyond it such as to set the trailer wheels where I need them to make a turn. I have to ask them to just indicate if I’m going to hit something, otherwise, please just watch and don’t wave your arms so much.
You teaching such as class would be very helpful toward the understanding of the geometry of a 5th wheel trailer and the location of the axles relative to the 5th wheel king pin.
I will make one other point – people need to be more concerned with a trailer “tilting” during a turn for whatever reason and the top leaning over into something, like a tree, while they are watching the wheels have plenty of clearance. Been a lot of telephone poles hit because of that little issue.
Thanks for your comments. Very important
Bill
Mark,
Keep in mind that I've also driven 18-wheelers. I always mention being cautious of one's route and choosing a fuel stop simply because I've read a number of RV novices that have hit fuel pumps stanctions (not sure of that word - metal posts set in concrete at the edges of the corners of fuel islands), poles and even overhead covers. As for your "course," knowing the geometry would be fine, but until one has actually gotten the experience, I still suggest caution.
Terry
Like Mark said, it is not all that "difficult" to park a large rig, or maneuver it in most situations. It does take some experience. I do wish people would at least READ some commercial driving training literature and do a little practice with some cones.
Jack and Mark:
So spot on.
One thing to bring to people’s attention who have pulled “bumper” trailers and then move to 5th wheels is the big difference between the two as to what the wheels of the trailer will do – and when – in both reverse and forward. They’re really different (due to the geometry) and that can cause someone who, for lack of a better word, “graduates” to a 5th wheel some surprises as to how they handle – and how to handle them. 30 minutes in a big open parking lot can sure be worth a lot to someone starting out.
Both you guys should teach a course on that – and put some of that literature on your website – Jack.
Bill
Not meaning to get off-topic here, but the time you drove our F450, you didn't seem to have any problems at all. Granted, it wasn't in town, but I'll bet that before long your confidence level will be way up there. So, stick with it and don't be afraid to tow. Just do your first towing on either 4-lane roads or 2-lane with shoulders until that confidence builds.
Terry
The best advice I got about driving a MH in skinny/construction lanes was to focus on the center stripe of the road and not the big concrete blocks on the passenger side. They said your vehicle will drift to the side you're looking at and by looking in the center of the road I have more confidence when driving in narrow lanes.
I've backed many TT style trailers ie. boat, cargo etc. all my adult life, BUT this 5th wheel is different. I've only had it since June. Mark I need your course!!!!
I would have a good time teaching backing techniques. One of the first rules is don't back the truck, steer the trailer. You never know where the truck will end up...steer the back end of the trailer, you know exactly where you want it. Put you hands on the bottom of the wheel, push it the direction you want the trailer to go. By the way, you guys in pickups don't have a blind side, I'll let you back my truck up. That will introduce you to a true blind side. But keep in mind, I don't have an automatic. It is against my religion to put an automatic in a semi. Sorry Jack. I can't change me. I still only use the clutch for starting and stopping. And not always stopping.
two additional rules, no matter how good you are, you will have to pull up to correct backing angles and, you will not always be able to get under it fast enough.
-- Edited by MarkS on Tuesday 1st of October 2013 12:38:15 PM
This is what I was talking about when I referred to the “geometry” of the 5th wheel vs. a TT. It’s different and you sort of need to get into a big empty parking lot and practice. Try stuff with the truck and see what happens. Like you will notice it takes a lot more distance when backing to get the fiver trailer to start turning than with a TT. I could explain why, but the physics doesn’t matter. It’s getting in your head what you have to do that matters. And getting out and looking three times when parking is not unusual. If you can’t judge it in the mirrors, especially when doing a “blind back,” then get out and look. A quick look is worth the 30 seconds it takes and will help you have better perspective of where the rig really is going in relation to obstacles. Learn that “pulling up” to correct a backing angle is actually a professionally taught procedure.
And the little comment that you back a 5er into a spot that you can’t pull it out of is absolutely true in a few cases. Before I park a rig I always ask the question, now how do I get it out of here? That thinking has served me well over the years.
Just perspective FWIW
Mark, plan a class. I'll bet you'll get some takers. (Jack could do one as well, and maybe should.)
Bill
Mark, I do steer the trailer, that part is the same. I guess for me it would be learning to pull up to the correct backing angle. And then staying ahead of the 5th wheel with its slower response time. I have a 90 degree angle to my drive way and a 30' wide street, a few times I have backed in perfect and never pulled forward. Most times however require back and forth travel. I'm not consistent yet.
Thanks for the comments, every little bit helps.
Red
Mark:
I understand the blind side in a semi is different from a pickup as I used to do what you did – just not for as long. Yep, it was a lot easier with a city tractor that had a rear window, like a pickup does, to back a trailer. When you can see it becomes so much easier. I was referring to backing the trailer to the curb side and but not being able to see around the street side of the trailer thus the street side becoming the blind side in so many words.
Your comments about steering the trailer and not the truck is very good advice. When I have taught someone to back a fiver that is the first thing I would advise. Drive the trailer, not the truck. But make sure you know where the front of the truck is going so as not to back it onto something. ‘Must keep the head on a swivel. (Have a story where a driver of the remote truck in Atlanta stadium, not me, didn’t see a VW bug and backed the right front steer wheel of the tractor right up on the hood of that VW. He just didn’t see it. Except for the cost, pretty funny picture.)
Please keep the good advice to all coming.
Bill
PS, I learned to not use the clutch early on when I lost mine on the opposite side of the state. Had to learn in a hurry early on. Had to put the trans in a low gear and actually start the engine “in gear” and then knock it out of gear to stop. It was a long way home doing that but I made it. All good 'ole guy stories. I know you have many many more.
Not to be picky, Guys, but we are now way off topic.
Terry