This RV site has a great reputation for taking on the touchy subjects without its members attacking one another. That being said, I would like to find out how the RV-Dreams community feels about the 55+ rule at some resorts/parks. I hope Terry & Jo - Howard & Linda will allow this topic to run its course, I don't feel that it is political and it does have an impact on many people that RV.
I want to know if any other full-timers below the age of 55 have been turned away from an RV resort or park because of their age.
We want to sell our home and buy a couple of RV sites in areas that appeal to us but we are finding this extremely difficult because most of the permanent or extended stay sites have age restrictions, and many don't post this in their listing/websites, you find out when show up at the resort or call for more info. I have an issue with discrimination of any kind whether it's age, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. For that matter I don't think parks should be able to turn you away because of the age of your RV either.
In my opinion the Senior Housing Exemption needs to be repealed. Most of the senior communities (including RV) we have visited do not meet the requirements outlined in the Fair Housing Act. Discrimination is discrimination regardless of whether its age, color, religion, etc. I feel these communities only exist to provide a tax shelter for many of their residents, from what I understand some if not all of these communities are exempt from paying local school taxes...really, what about people under 55 that don't have kids, shouldn't we be exempt too. This restriction has always angered me and I apologize in advance if my views on this subject offend anyone...that was not my intention. JMO
The Fair Housing Act (FHAct) protects all residents from discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin, religion, sex, handicap or familial status (families with children under the age of 18 living with parents or legal guardians; pregnant women and people trying to get custody of children under 18).
Senior Housing Exemption
Although the FHAct was amended in 1988 to prohibit discrimination on the basis of disability and familial status, Congress intended to preserve housing specifically designed to meet the needs of senior residents. Housing that meets the FHAct definition of housing for older persons is exempt from the law's familial status requirements, provided that:
HUD has determined that the dwelling is specifically designed for and occupied by elderly persons under a Federal, State or local government program or
It is occupied solely by persons who are 62 or older or
It houses at least one person who is 55 or older in at least 80 percent of the occupied units, and adheres to a policy that demonstrates intent to house persons who are 55 or older.
Therefore, housing that satisfies the legal definition of senior housing or housing for older persons described above, can legally exclude families with children.
-- Edited by azrving on Thursday 12th of September 2013 12:46:20 PM
Edit by moderator: Removed comment requesting thread to be moved to another category. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Thursday 12th of September 2013 02:21:33 PM
azrving said
08:56 PM Sep 12, 2013
dream reachers wrote:
I feel that businesses have the right to cater to the type of clients that they want to do business with without extreme government interference. This includes businesses dealing with RVs . Many parks are family oriented and have playgrounds and activities for children. Other parks specify 55+ and do not have playgrounds etc. I could go on but you see my point that it is up to the owner to set his rules, not me the customer. I may want to set out my birdfeeder but the owner of the park where I am staying says no bird feeders so I either abide by his rules or go elsewhere. It is not really my right to say "unfair, you are discriminating". The same goes with rules for dogs, etc. if the owner says "no dogs" that is his right, find another park. I have never had a problem finding a park that I could stay at all across the USA. I may have had to look more and travel afew more miles but there are many places that will take you regardless of your age or your RV age. It just takes some investigation. No sense in getting upset. Life is too short
I understand your position and as a previous business owner I certainly didn't want the government meddling in my business. This is the exact opposite though, the government is allowing certain RV park operators, apartment owners, homeowners, and etc. to discriminate based on age so in essence the park owner and the government are guilty of age discrimination. I can assure you I would have been sued if I had refused to service someone’s vehicle due to their age. Everyone’s money spent just the same and I never turned away a potential customer. Would you have an issue with a business that wouldn't allow customers based on skin color, gender, religion or hair color? I guess you wouldn't have a problem with RV resort that didn't allow anyone over the age of 50 to enter their park either. There's a big difference between standard rules (allowing bird feeders or not) and excluding an entire segment of the population just because you don't want to see someone younger than yourself or heaven forbid a child when you look out your RV window. I do understand why some parks don't want certain dog breeds or they refuse all dogs, it's a liability issue. I haven't ever bitten a fellow camper (yet) so in my opinion I shouldn't be denied entry...Lol
I posted this question because I wanted to know if others found this age restriction unfair. I'm not mad at any person or business, I am angry that some businesses with the help of the government are limiting my purchase options because I'm not 55+ years of age.
I too haven't had a problem finding a place to rent for a weekend getaway but I have run into some big problems trying to buy an RV site because most of the ones we like are in these restrictive communities.
Try to understand my position too.
-- Edited by azrving on Friday 13th of September 2013 11:24:38 AM
The Bear II said
09:16 PM Sep 12, 2013
It's been our experience there are more "any age" resorts in most areas than there are age restricted.
That being said it sounds like you want to be in an area where there are only "age restricted" resorts or the "any age" resorts aren't as appealing as the age restricted.
In my mind, whatever rules an RV resort wants to put in place are fine by me....if I don't like the rules I will go someplace else. That's the beauty of RVs, you have lots of choices of where to park for a night, a week, a month, a year, many years or the rest of your life.
Terry and Jo said
09:26 PM Sep 12, 2013
According to the HOPA link to their "FAQ's" at the bottom of the link you provided, I get the impression that one can contest the "community's" rules a bit because of the 80/20 percent rule. That being a rule that allows up to 20% of the residents to fall under the upper age limit. However, my presumption would be that if one took the "community" to court to be able to reside there, then one might find the "community" to be a hostile environment after such a drastic action was taken.
Personally, I might be inclined to find a mobile home park that would allow RV's. It would be likely that lots in such a place would be less expensive anyway.
Terry
CJSX2fromCT said
09:41 PM Sep 12, 2013
They want to turn my $$$$$$ away on account of my age..... I won't be back there anytime soon.
azrving said
09:56 PM Sep 12, 2013
The Bear II wrote:
It's been our experience there are more "any age" resorts in most areas than there are age restricted.
That being said it sounds like you want to be in an area where there are only "age restricted" resorts or the "any age" resorts aren't as appealing as the age restricted.
In my mind, whatever rules an RV resort wants to put in place are fine by me....if I don't like the rules I will go someplace else. That's the beauty of RVs, you have lots of choices of where to park for a night, a week, a month, a year, many years or the rest of your life.
Yes, unfortunately most of the nicer, more appealing resorts (where we would like to own property) are age restricted. The developers/owners of these resorts/parks seem to cater to the "over 55" groups. I shouldn't have to go somewhere else just because I don't fall into a particular age group, if I like the RV park or resort, I should be able to rent or buy same as the next guy.
If my money isn't welcome at a business when I am below 55 years of age, I can assure you they won't get it when I do reach the age requirement.
azrving said
09:56 PM Sep 12, 2013
CJSX2fromCT wrote:
They want to turn my $$$$$$ away on account of my age..... I won't be back there anytime soon.
Amen!
bjoyce said
10:29 PM Sep 12, 2013
We started our fulltiming with both of us under 55 and did stay at 55+ parks. Our experience is was easy to fit into the 20% that were under 55, but it might require talking to the owners or management, not someone doing checkins. We had a nice RV and no kids, so no real issue. In many places the property taxes are lower for 55+ parks, no school taxes.
SnowGypsy said
11:12 PM Sep 12, 2013
I'm agreeing with "azrving". We came across this when we were younger and now, over 55, we would not patronize these parks/resorts in the future. At that time, I made complaints but unless the law is changed, well, it is the law. I tend to not want myself, family members or pets in places where we aren't wanted. You cannot force acceptance even when the law is in your favor. I have done plenty of trying to change the system, more than my fair share. I'd rather be camping in the woods!
Jwar said
11:54 PM Sep 12, 2013
X 2 with "azrving"
I think their are far more and nicer resorts without the age description on people. However they have the age restrictions of the rig you drive, the lenght and number of folks inside, of course I never party much er... not as much as I should...so perhaps the loud noise clause may become an issue.
Of course Im only 72 years young and I hate it when some ole farts park next to me with their soft music...sorry about that...off my meds today and grumpy
cherylbrv said
01:07 AM Sep 13, 2013
I don't have any experience with this, but I just turned 55 and am actually happy that now I will have a choice if I wanted to stay in a place without noisy kids. I thought that was the only reason such places existed, as some seniors without little ones (including grandchildren) can enjoy peace and quiet. Of course, if you come in without children, you should be allowed in, no matter what your age. I suppose these communities (apartments and RV parks) should really be "no children" as opposed to having an age limit.
dream reachers said
01:12 AM Sep 13, 2013
I feel that businesses have the right to cater to the type of clients that they want to do business with without extreme government interference. This includes businesses dealing with RVs . Many parks are family oriented and have playgrounds and activities for children. Other parks specify 55+ and do not have playgrounds etc. I could go on but you see my point that it is up to the owner to set his rules, not me the customer. I may want to set out my birdfeeder but the owner of the park where I am staying says no bird feeders so I either abide by his rules or go elsewhere. It is not really my right to say "unfair, you are discriminating". The same goes with rules for dogs, etc. if the owner says "no dogs" that is his right, find another park.
I have never had a problem finding a park that I could stay at all across the USA. I may have had to look more and travel afew more miles but there are many places that will take you regardless of your age or your RV age. It just takes some investigation. No sense in getting upset. Life is too short
cherylbrv said
01:15 AM Sep 13, 2013
You said it much better than I did! Thanks!
Hdrider said
11:32 AM Sep 13, 2013
We stayed at a park that was 18 or older. I thought that was great.
Racerguy said
12:21 PM Sep 13, 2013
Mark that's why I still frequent this site even though we Can no longer full time RV.I feel like I'm conversing with family here.We can agree to disagree without being hateful.
on edit: why is it we never see our mistakes until AFTER we hit the submit button
-- Edited by Racerguy on Friday 13th of September 2013 12:23:08 PM
Dance Chick said
01:00 PM Sep 13, 2013
azrving...you make a very good point. If a park, community, apartment complex, etc. were to deny someone because they weren't the right color or religion (or whatever), the world would stop turning and everyone, including the government, would be ready for a fight. I'm afraid the age restricted communities are here to stay, though. I don't see them changing any time soon.
Perhaps 55 is a bit too old to put as a restriction. We live in a retirement community with golf courses, fitness rooms, and activities designed to attract retirees. I believe our age requirement is 45 or 50, and I don't think anyone really cares, actually. No one with children would want to move here, so a single or couple who are post children fit right in, and our grandkids are always welcome here.
SnowGypsy said
01:10 PM Sep 13, 2013
After reading through the posts here, I got to wondering if both my husband and myself being over 55 but traveling with our son, who although 27, with Down syndrome, you might think he was much younger as most do, maybe 15 at most, should we expect that people will complain thinking we have brought a child into an adult park? I suspect there would be complaints to the management especially if the park were larger. Personally, I have spent my life opposing segregation of all types and plan to continue to do that until I die but if people 55+ don't want to be around younger people or children, I don't think I would fit in there anyway. My guess is avoiding the school taxes was probably what brought that about. I don't feel a business operating should have a right to pick and choose who they want to serve.
Dance Chick said
01:37 PM Sep 13, 2013
I also think avoiding school taxes is wrong. While I don't want to pay any more taxes than I have to, and I also think a lot of the money received is wasted or not handled well, we all must pay. Our kids went to private school, so we didn't "use" the public schools, but we still had to pay a school tax. Those of us that live in our retirement community pay school taxes, so I don't know that any of these communities are exempt. They might be. I just don't know of any.
SnowGypsy said
01:54 PM Sep 13, 2013
I know that some communities in AZ do not pay school taxes. We lived there 6 years.
Dance Chick said
02:27 PM Sep 13, 2013
Wow, that's unbelievable, Cathy. Not to be argumentative, but trying to figure out the reason or "fairness" (don't we know life has to be fair....LOL), I'll present this...I'm assuming the reason for being exempt is that they don't use the schools anymore....been there, done that. Keeping that same thought, then I only want to pay the fire department if I have to use them. I also rarely use the city and county parks for recreation, so I don't want to pay taxes to have them. I only want to pay for them on a use basis. And, someone made a good point that if one never has children, what about them? Are they exempt?
bjoyce said
04:20 PM Sep 13, 2013
Many years ago apartment complexes that were "adult only" were deemed against the law. Suddenly they had to make changes to their pools, etc, since they now had to be child safe. Yes, there are differences in laws for children and adults. It cost money to make the changes, it caused problems, it increased my rent. I moved into a rental house.
Del Webb spent millions of dollars in legal fees to get age-restricted communities defined and legal. That is where the 80% rule. 55+, and no kids except short visits came from. In most states at least 7% of the residents need to be under 55, so 7 to 20% are under 55. In most states 55+ communities do not pay school taxes, that was determined in court. Courts determine what is legal and illegal, that has nothing to do with fairness or anyone's personal sense of what is right or wrong.
In many snowbird areas, like Mesa/Apache Junction, Arizona, it is hard to find a non-55+ campground. Amazingly, they are full in February, so they can "discriminate" and stay in business.
Racerguy said
04:46 PM Sep 13, 2013
We live in Sun City West,Arizona.We pay no school taxes as we have no schools.When we had to leave full time RVing we specifically looked for an age restricted community for many reasons.We Love children as much as anyone but at our age we prefer not to live next to them.Children will be children and they make noise and sometimes go where they aren't supposed too.Younger generation's just live a different type of lifestyle( We did back then) and it's only causes problems when you try to mix the two.To repeal sections of the fair housing act such as the Senior exemption would have many unintended consequences.Our whole City infrastructure was designed around 55+.If you allow under 55 to start moving in soon they will want services that fit their lifestyle and it will cause a rift in the community.We kinda have that problem here right now because the Baby Boom Generation(us) is asking for different services and the Greatest Generation are fighting it tooth and nail because they like it the way it is.Just an example of what could happen.I hope I explained my position well enough it can be understood and I hope the OP can find a place that will fit their needs.
azrving said
06:52 PM Sep 13, 2013
Racerguy wrote:
We live in Sun City West,Arizona.We pay no school taxes as we have no schools.When we had to leave full time RVing we specifically looked for an age restricted community for many reasons.We Love children as much as anyone but at our age we prefer not to live next to them.Children will be children and they make noise and sometimes go where they aren't supposed too.Younger generation's just live a different type of lifestyle( We did back then) and it's only causes problems when you try to mix the two.To repeal sections of the fair housing act such as the Senior exemption would have many unintended consequences.Our whole City infrastructure was designed around 55+.If you allow under 55 to start moving in soon they will want services that fit their lifestyle and it will cause a rift in the community.We kinda have that problem here right now because the Baby Boom Generation(us) is asking for different services and the Greatest Generation are fighting it tooth and nail because they like it the way it is.Just an example of what could happen.I hope I explained my position well enough it can be understood and I hope the OP can find a place that will fit their needs.
Racerguy,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on age restricted communities. I do understand your reasons for wanting to live in this type of community. I may not agree with the government allowing these types of communities to exist but I am trying to better understand why someone would want to make one their home. Your post summed that up without being mean or argumentative. That's why I prefer to post on RV Dreams, if I had posted this on another RV site there would have been a hundred or more responses telling me to go to H#*L.
I want to thank the moderators and the RV Dreams Community for allowing members to ask tough/controversial questions without fear of being attacked or ridiculed.
Mark W.
Dance Chick said
08:46 PM Sep 13, 2013
azrving and racerguy....that is why I have left the other forums. I got tired of being blasted or wincing and being uncomfortable as I would read them blasting someone else.
Dog Folks said
10:53 PM Sep 13, 2013
azrving wrote:
CJSX2fromCT wrote:
They want to turn my $$$$$$ away on account of my age..... I won't be back there anytime soon.
Amen!
X2. I am over the age 55 so I can stay there but I will not. It is the principle of the thing, and the fact that I don't want to be in among all those "old folks."
If they want that type of park, so be it. They just won't get any of my money.
Jim01 said
11:40 PM Sep 13, 2013
It's possible that when you become one of those "Old Folks", you may feel differently.
Jim
SnowGypsy said
12:28 AM Sep 14, 2013
Jim01 wrote:
It's possible that when you become one of those "Old Folks", you may feel differently.
Jim
While I can't speak for "Dog Folks", I totally see where he is coming from. And, "Dog Folks", we won't be becoming one of those "old folks". It is deeper than age emphasis is on "those". In one of those other forums, probably 10 or 15 years ago, before we full-timed for 2 years, we were trying to figure out how to put it together and we were told by "those" old folks that full-timing was something that you earned and that we needed to just work until retirement age like they did and then we would be "entitled" to the lifestyle. This was one that had a membership for which we obviously had paid more than it could ever be worth especially after finding out by age restrictions involved. And, then, we face the fact that they believe it is wrong that we have our son with us and that full-timing with him would be unfair. I don't need another set of parents, one was more than enough but at least, they taught me that people were different but none better than the other. I have had a lifestyle that has allowed me to experience the great diversity of the population, another thing I am very grateful for. Anyone looking for peace and quiet probably won't find that in a lot of RV parks despite the age range, think small barking dogs/loud tvs versus children. We spent 3 years in an RV/mobile park near Tucson and 2 years in one in Fayetteville, NC and 2 years in Ozark, AL. Love AL! "These" older folks that we met, loved our kids and even our big dogs! I guess the difference is between "these" and "those"?
WestWardHo said
04:50 PM Sep 14, 2013
We happen to be in a park without a lot of restrictions. While we're not in AZ and you can't own lots here, there are no age restrictions and few others. We have "permanents" and have been working on getting many of those sites and rigs cleaned up. It's not pretty in that section but there are a couple of grandparents raising grandchildren on very limited means but doing their very best. There are also a couple of small families. My heart stopped when an 8 year old permanent brought her 3 year old friend and new neighbor into the office to get a candy and introduce her while mentioning her grandpa was helping them out as they had "nothing to eat". Turns out gramps was babysitting while mom of precious 3 year old went grocery shopping - fortunately I checked that out before emptying our pantry and freezer! Mostly these children are very respectful and polite. This is not what I call a child friendly park so the fact that they are well behaved without many outlets is impressive.
In our weekly site we currently have a full-time family of 7 in a huge motorhome and the 5 children are the best behaved you've ever met anywhere. We have bikers, small pop ups and huge motorhomes. We have many elderly with canes and younger people just on vacation before they go back to thief jobs. Seems like the oldest folks are the sweetest.
We have people with big dogs and lots of smaller and medium sized ones.
Guess I'm just reflecting on the diversity of of this park but the only complaints we hear is the barking dogs in one permanent rig and the wifi which goes up and down but is better than many parks.
We personally avoid KOAs because they are family parks but yet stay in military parks which also are.
I can appreciate wanting to buy lots in places with two climates and understand your frustration, AZrRVng, about being restricted by your age. It sounded to me like Bill Joyce's comment meant there has to be exceptions of from 7 to 20% but maybe I misunderstood it.
Hope you find what you're looking for. SnowGypsy, you can park with your Down Syndrome son next to us anytime! Love to meet him.
Sherry
SnowGypsy said
07:38 PM Sep 14, 2013
Westward Ho: Thank you, I am sure our son would be happy to meet you. You do bring up another issue that I am sure starts to play into the conversation of why RV parks have restrictions. Like you, we have seen those people that have become trapped in poverty that stay in the mobile/RV and RV parks. Motorhomes that no longer run and are rusted out, thus probably the 10 year age rule allowing some flexibility for the management. I think a lot of rules are in place "just in case" and I don't think it ever hurts to ask if there might be an exception. We were once renting KOA cabins and stopped at one and they said "no dogs in the cabins" so my husband explained that our dogs sleep in crates and would not be left unattended. They eyed us and thought about it and said "They'll be in crates?" We said "Yes." and they allowed the dogs. Most people are extremely kind to our son and always want to pet our dogs who will sit patiently to be petted while on a traffic leads (24") and pinch collars (1 - 60 lb & 1 - 80 lb). We are "campers" at heart, not RVers! I'll take the bugs and coyotes to the club house and pool.
SnowGypsy said
01:30 PM Sep 15, 2013
Some PARENTS are responsible. It just seems it has nothing to do with the people who you want to be with but those people that you want to avoid. Gosh, that does sound like the case with discrimination though. And, over time, as younger people come in from another generation, you'll have people that are 55 and people that are 85 and expectations will be different.
What if I make a statement about people over 55+, a blanket statement of their behavior because of what I have seen many do: leave barking small dogs in their RVs while gone for the day, play their TV at levels that can be heard 6 RVs away, not pick up their doggie's dodo after looking around to see if someone is looking, driving off leaving their trash on site even when they are supposed to take it to the dumpster and often their doggie dodo and the list could go....................... If all children are the same and all parents not responsible than everyone 55+ must be the same? Keep in mind that we are 59 years old when I am saying this. My son and his wife are also responsible parents with well-behaved children. Good grief, this is starting to remind of the other forum I left when we had kids at home. If this needs to be deleted or me suspended, so be it.
While I understand about 55+, this became political several posts back when people were saying that they believe a business should only have to serve the people they want to. I thought "How un-American." and then the slams against kids started. I guess this is what I can expect, just like with Escapees. I am disappointed but very particular about the forums that I associate myself with.
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Sunday 15th of September 2013 02:24:07 PM
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Sunday 15th of September 2013 04:39:22 PM
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Sunday 15th of September 2013 08:26:42 PM
folivier said
03:35 PM Sep 15, 2013
Wow, so many differing opinions. But that's what makes our country so great.
We are 55+ and are glad that we have the option of staying at a 55+ park. We like to mix it up, stay at nice parks for a while, rv resort occasionally, state park, etc.
On the school tax issue we paid our taxes and sent our kids to a private school because we wanted to raise and educate them to be moral and successful. Both sons earned full scholarships to college, that more than paid for the private schools. Both are conservative, responsible young adults.
Our plans are to fulltime for 5+ years then buy a condo or house in a 55+ community we have been looking at for a couple years. It has the amenities we want.
Think about it this way: if you bought into a 55+ campground or development you know what you are getting. And you know you are protected that the community will not change once you are settled. Without these restrictions you could find yourself in an undesirable place if enough of the residents decide they want to change things.
Discrimination? Don't think so, just choices. The world will never be a perfect place because everybody thinks perfection is a different thing than others do.
Restrictions are in place because the owner wants to attract a certain clientele. He is the one putting forth the money and taking the risks inherent in any business. Please don't force him to change because YOU don't like his rules. Just go to another place.
There are plenty of different types. Remember one day you will be one of the "old folks" and believe me as you age your wants do change.
cherylbrv said
03:53 PM Sep 15, 2013
Sherry- I love the Freudian slip typo (at least I hope it was!)... "We have many elderly with canes and younger people just on vacation before they go back to thief jobs"
I also appreciate the different views on this thread. Per my post, I had always been of the impression that a 55+ community was a choice of the owner's which gave clientele the ability to choose a quieter environment. Thank you to those who have opened my eyes. Not that I've completely changed my view, but I can now definitely see how this can be considered discriminatory. How much different is it than not wanting to live near others of a different race or culture because we don't want to be exposed to their behaviors? If I don't like it, I can go elsewhere. Just another bone for me to chew on. Thanks.
azrving said
03:58 PM Sep 15, 2013
Thank all of you for the comments! Although my opinion on the 55+ remains the same, I do understand why some of you feel they are a needed option. I chuckled when I read Jack Mayer's comment ("I like not having "objects" hitting my truck and trailer") because many moons ago my youngest son lost the chain on his bicycle (thus he had no brakes) while we were at Boy Scout Camp and rammed into my friends "Brand New" Chevy Truck! I was mortified and so thankful there was no serious damage, just a little scratch on the rear bumper. Not being a Chevy fan, I used to tell my friend that's all a Chevy good for....stopping a kid's runaway bike..LOl.
-- Edited by azrving on Sunday 15th of September 2013 03:59:14 PM
WestWardHo said
04:03 PM Sep 15, 2013
Cheryl,
Yup, a slip but ill leave it for others. Was kind of funny!
Sherry
Jack Mayer said
07:35 PM Sep 15, 2013
Personally, I LIKE 55+ campgrounds. I like the quiet of not having children running around, screaming and yelling. I like not having "objects" hitting my truck and trailer, and I like not having kids running across my lot, messing with my chairs, etc. Now, if PARENTS were responsible and trained their children well none of this would be an issue.
So I LIKE the 55+ campgrounds. :)
Hdrider said
08:07 PM Sep 15, 2013
I agree with Jack even though we don't or at least have not stayed at many. Or as I mentioned before,, maybe a min. age limit of 18 or what ever the state legal age limit is.
kb0zke said
02:04 AM Sep 16, 2013
Many years ago I was a single man, teaching in central Wisconsin. I bought a small, cheap trailer in a new trailer park. The owner decided that since I had to "put up with" kids all day I shouldn't have to live close to them, so he assigned me a spot on the senior citizen section. I was 26, and when the kids heard about it I was promptly nicknamed Grandpa. I've been called Grandpa ever since, but this spring it finally became official. It never occurred to the owner that maybe I became a teacher because I enjoyed being around kids.
We haven't started our full-time journey yet (still trying to get rid of lots of stuff), but we're already thinking about what to do when we decide to settle down somewhere. Since we are both past 55, that age minimum doesn't concern us. We'll make our decision on where to stay, for a night or for years, based on what the community is like. If we don't like what a place has become we'll move elsewhere.
PIEERE said
03:10 AM Sep 16, 2013
That is exactly why they put wheels and tires under our RV's; for me if I don't like where I am and they don't want to accommodate me; adios. Some where down the road around the next bend is a place that will gladly accept my older Motorhome and this old Boy; He! He! I'm 62 and fall into the OLD BOY Class Now!!! LOL!
Lucky Mike said
01:50 PM Sep 16, 2013
Now I understand Why Boondocking is for me..........Only I make the decision of is it nice enough, and I bring the extra amenities that mother nature..(or Walmart) does'nt supply!!!!
Terry and Jo said
02:28 PM Sep 16, 2013
I believe that this thread has actually said most of what could be said on the topic, so rather than need to come back and continually read it to make sure it isn't "getting political," I'm going to close it.
This RV site has a great reputation for taking on the touchy subjects without its members attacking one another. That being said, I would like to find out how the RV-Dreams community feels about the 55+ rule at some resorts/parks. I hope Terry & Jo - Howard & Linda will allow this topic to run its course, I don't feel that it is political and it does have an impact on many people that RV.
I want to know if any other full-timers below the age of 55 have been turned away from an RV resort or park because of their age.
We want to sell our home and buy a couple of RV sites in areas that appeal to us but we are finding this extremely difficult because most of the permanent or extended stay sites have age restrictions, and many don't post this in their listing/websites, you find out when show up at the resort or call for more info. I have an issue with discrimination of any kind whether it's age, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. For that matter I don't think parks should be able to turn you away because of the age of your RV either.
In my opinion the Senior Housing Exemption needs to be repealed. Most of the senior communities (including RV) we have visited do not meet the requirements outlined in the Fair Housing Act. Discrimination is discrimination regardless of whether its age, color, religion, etc. I feel these communities only exist to provide a tax shelter for many of their residents, from what I understand some if not all of these communities are exempt from paying local school taxes...really, what about people under 55 that don't have kids, shouldn't we be exempt too. This restriction has always angered me and I apologize in advance if my views on this subject offend anyone...that was not my intention. JMO
http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/seniors
The Fair Housing Act (FHAct) protects all residents from discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin, religion, sex, handicap or familial status (families with children under the age of 18 living with parents or legal guardians; pregnant women and people trying to get custody of children under 18).
Senior Housing Exemption
Although the FHAct was amended in 1988 to prohibit discrimination on the basis of disability and familial status, Congress intended to preserve housing specifically designed to meet the needs of senior residents. Housing that meets the FHAct definition of housing for older persons is exempt from the law's familial status requirements, provided that:
Therefore, housing that satisfies the legal definition of senior housing or housing for older persons described above, can legally exclude families with children.
-- Edited by azrving on Thursday 12th of September 2013 12:46:20 PM
Edit by moderator: Removed comment requesting thread to be moved to another category. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Thursday 12th of September 2013 02:21:33 PM
I understand your position and as a previous business owner I certainly didn't want the government meddling in my business. This is the exact opposite though, the government is allowing certain RV park operators, apartment owners, homeowners, and etc. to discriminate based on age so in essence the park owner and the government are guilty of age discrimination. I can assure you I would have been sued if I had refused to service someone’s vehicle due to their age. Everyone’s money spent just the same and I never turned away a potential customer. Would you have an issue with a business that wouldn't allow customers based on skin color, gender, religion or hair color? I guess you wouldn't have a problem with RV resort that didn't allow anyone over the age of 50 to enter their park either. There's a big difference between standard rules (allowing bird feeders or not) and excluding an entire segment of the population just because you don't want to see someone younger than yourself or heaven forbid a child when you look out your RV window. I do understand why some parks don't want certain dog breeds or they refuse all dogs, it's a liability issue. I haven't ever bitten a fellow camper (yet
) so in my opinion I shouldn't be denied entry...Lol
I posted this question because I wanted to know if others found this age restriction unfair. I'm not mad at any person or business, I am angry that some businesses with the help of the government are limiting my purchase options because I'm not 55+ years of age.
I too haven't had a problem finding a place to rent for a weekend getaway but I have run into some big problems trying to buy an RV site because most of the ones we like are in these restrictive communities.
Try to understand my position too.
-- Edited by azrving on Friday 13th of September 2013 11:24:38 AM
That being said it sounds like you want to be in an area where there are only "age restricted" resorts or the "any age" resorts aren't as appealing as the age restricted.
In my mind, whatever rules an RV resort wants to put in place are fine by me....if I don't like the rules I will go someplace else. That's the beauty of RVs, you have lots of choices of where to park for a night, a week, a month, a year, many years or the rest of your life.
According to the HOPA link to their "FAQ's" at the bottom of the link you provided, I get the impression that one can contest the "community's" rules a bit because of the 80/20 percent rule. That being a rule that allows up to 20% of the residents to fall under the upper age limit. However, my presumption would be that if one took the "community" to court to be able to reside there, then one might find the "community" to be a hostile environment after such a drastic action was taken.
Personally, I might be inclined to find a mobile home park that would allow RV's. It would be likely that lots in such a place would be less expensive anyway.
Terry
Yes, unfortunately most of the nicer, more appealing resorts (where we would like to own property) are age restricted. The developers/owners of these resorts/parks seem to cater to the "over 55" groups. I shouldn't have to go somewhere else just because I don't fall into a particular age group, if I like the RV park or resort, I should be able to rent or buy same as the next guy.
If my money isn't welcome at a business when I am below 55 years of age, I can assure you they won't get it when I do reach the age requirement.
Amen!
X 2 with "azrving"
I think their are far more and nicer resorts without the age description on people. However they have the age restrictions of the rig you drive, the lenght and number of folks inside, of course I never party much er... not as much as I should...so perhaps the loud noise clause may become an issue.
Of course Im only 72 years young and I hate it when some ole farts park next to me with their soft music...sorry about that...off my meds today and grumpy
I have never had a problem finding a park that I could stay at all across the USA. I may have had to look more and travel afew more miles but there are many places that will take you regardless of your age or your RV age. It just takes some investigation. No sense in getting upset. Life is too short
Mark that's why I still frequent this site even though we Can no longer full time RV.I feel like I'm conversing with family here.We can agree to disagree without being hateful.
on edit: why is it we never see our mistakes until AFTER we hit the submit button
-- Edited by Racerguy on Friday 13th of September 2013 12:23:08 PM
Perhaps 55 is a bit too old to put as a restriction. We live in a retirement community with golf courses, fitness rooms, and activities designed to attract retirees. I believe our age requirement is 45 or 50, and I don't think anyone really cares, actually. No one with children would want to move here, so a single or couple who are post children fit right in, and our grandkids are always welcome here.
Del Webb spent millions of dollars in legal fees to get age-restricted communities defined and legal. That is where the 80% rule. 55+, and no kids except short visits came from. In most states at least 7% of the residents need to be under 55, so 7 to 20% are under 55. In most states 55+ communities do not pay school taxes, that was determined in court. Courts determine what is legal and illegal, that has nothing to do with fairness or anyone's personal sense of what is right or wrong.
In many snowbird areas, like Mesa/Apache Junction, Arizona, it is hard to find a non-55+ campground. Amazingly, they are full in February, so they can "discriminate" and stay in business.
Racerguy,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on age restricted communities. I do understand your reasons for wanting to live in this type of community. I may not agree with the government allowing these types of communities to exist but I am trying to better understand why someone would want to make one their home. Your post summed that up without being mean or argumentative. That's why I prefer to post on RV Dreams, if I had posted this on another RV site there would have been a hundred or more responses telling me to go to H#*L.
I want to thank the moderators and the RV Dreams Community for allowing members to ask tough/controversial questions without fear of being attacked or ridiculed.
Mark W.
X2. I am over the age 55 so I can stay there but I will not. It is the principle of the thing, and the fact that I don't want to be in among all those "old folks."
If they want that type of park, so be it. They just won't get any of my money.
It's possible that when you become one of those "Old Folks", you may feel differently.
Jim
While I can't speak for "Dog Folks", I totally see where he is coming from. And, "Dog Folks", we won't be becoming one of those "old folks". It is deeper than age emphasis is on "those". In one of those other forums, probably 10 or 15 years ago, before we full-timed for 2 years, we were trying to figure out how to put it together and we were told by "those" old folks that full-timing was something that you earned and that we needed to just work until retirement age like they did and then we would be "entitled" to the lifestyle. This was one that had a membership for which we obviously had paid more than it could ever be worth especially after finding out by age restrictions involved. And, then, we face the fact that they believe it is wrong that we have our son with us and that full-timing with him would be unfair. I don't need another set of parents, one was more than enough but at least, they taught me that people were different but none better than the other. I have had a lifestyle that has allowed me to experience the great diversity of the population, another thing I am very grateful for. Anyone looking for peace and quiet probably won't find that in a lot of RV parks despite the age range, think small barking dogs/loud tvs versus children. We spent 3 years in an RV/mobile park near Tucson and 2 years in one in Fayetteville, NC and 2 years in Ozark, AL. Love AL! "These" older folks that we met, loved our kids and even our big dogs! I guess the difference is between "these" and "those"?
In our weekly site we currently have a full-time family of 7 in a huge motorhome and the 5 children are the best behaved you've ever met anywhere. We have bikers, small pop ups and huge motorhomes. We have many elderly with canes and younger people just on vacation before they go back to thief jobs. Seems like the oldest folks are the sweetest.
We have people with big dogs and lots of smaller and medium sized ones.
Guess I'm just reflecting on the diversity of of this park but the only complaints we hear is the barking dogs in one permanent rig and the wifi which goes up and down but is better than many parks.
We personally avoid KOAs because they are family parks but yet stay in military parks which also are.
I can appreciate wanting to buy lots in places with two climates and understand your frustration, AZrRVng, about being restricted by your age. It sounded to me like Bill Joyce's comment meant there has to be exceptions of from 7 to 20% but maybe I misunderstood it.
Hope you find what you're looking for. SnowGypsy, you can park with your Down Syndrome son next to us anytime! Love to meet him.
Sherry
Some PARENTS are responsible. It just seems it has nothing to do with the people who you want to be with but those people that you want to avoid. Gosh, that does sound like the case with discrimination though. And, over time, as younger people come in from another generation, you'll have people that are 55 and people that are 85 and expectations will be different.
What if I make a statement about people over 55+, a blanket statement of their behavior because of what I have seen many do: leave barking small dogs in their RVs while gone for the day, play their TV at levels that can be heard 6 RVs away, not pick up their doggie's dodo after looking around to see if someone is looking, driving off leaving their trash on site even when they are supposed to take it to the dumpster and often their doggie dodo and the list could go....................... If all children are the same and all parents not responsible than everyone 55+ must be the same? Keep in mind that we are 59 years old when I am saying this. My son and his wife are also responsible parents with well-behaved children. Good grief, this is starting to remind of the other forum I left when we had kids at home. If this needs to be deleted or me suspended, so be it.
While I understand about 55+, this became political several posts back when people were saying that they believe a business should only have to serve the people they want to. I thought "How un-American." and then the slams against kids started. I guess this is what I can expect, just like with Escapees. I am disappointed but very particular about the forums that I associate myself with.
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Sunday 15th of September 2013 02:24:07 PM
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Sunday 15th of September 2013 04:39:22 PM
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Sunday 15th of September 2013 08:26:42 PM
We are 55+ and are glad that we have the option of staying at a 55+ park. We like to mix it up, stay at nice parks for a while, rv resort occasionally, state park, etc.
On the school tax issue we paid our taxes and sent our kids to a private school because we wanted to raise and educate them to be moral and successful. Both sons earned full scholarships to college, that more than paid for the private schools. Both are conservative, responsible young adults.
Our plans are to fulltime for 5+ years then buy a condo or house in a 55+ community we have been looking at for a couple years. It has the amenities we want.
Think about it this way: if you bought into a 55+ campground or development you know what you are getting. And you know you are protected that the community will not change once you are settled. Without these restrictions you could find yourself in an undesirable place if enough of the residents decide they want to change things.
Discrimination? Don't think so, just choices. The world will never be a perfect place because everybody thinks perfection is a different thing than others do.
Restrictions are in place because the owner wants to attract a certain clientele. He is the one putting forth the money and taking the risks inherent in any business. Please don't force him to change because YOU don't like his rules. Just go to another place.
There are plenty of different types. Remember one day you will be one of the "old folks" and believe me as you age your wants do change.
I also appreciate the different views on this thread. Per my post, I had always been of the impression that a 55+ community was a choice of the owner's which gave clientele the ability to choose a quieter environment. Thank you to those who have opened my eyes. Not that I've completely changed my view, but I can now definitely see how this can be considered discriminatory. How much different is it than not wanting to live near others of a different race or culture because we don't want to be exposed to their behaviors? If I don't like it, I can go elsewhere. Just another bone for me to chew on. Thanks.
Thank all of you for the comments! Although my opinion on the 55+ remains the same, I do understand why some of you feel they are a needed option. I chuckled when I read Jack Mayer's comment ("I like not having "objects" hitting my truck and trailer") because many moons ago my youngest son lost the chain on his bicycle (thus he had no brakes) while we were at Boy Scout Camp and rammed into my friends "Brand New" Chevy Truck! I was mortified and so thankful there was no serious damage, just a little scratch on the rear bumper. Not being a Chevy fan, I used to tell my friend that's all a Chevy good for....stopping a kid's runaway bike..LOl.
-- Edited by azrving on Sunday 15th of September 2013 03:59:14 PM
Yup, a slip but ill leave it for others. Was kind of funny!
Sherry
So I LIKE the 55+ campgrounds. :)
We haven't started our full-time journey yet (still trying to get rid of lots of stuff), but we're already thinking about what to do when we decide to settle down somewhere. Since we are both past 55, that age minimum doesn't concern us. We'll make our decision on where to stay, for a night or for years, based on what the community is like. If we don't like what a place has become we'll move elsewhere.
I believe that this thread has actually said most of what could be said on the topic, so rather than need to come back and continually read it to make sure it isn't "getting political," I'm going to close it.
Terry