We went to an RV dealership today to look at the Sanibel 3500. We have seen it a couple of times at the Chicago and Grand Rapids RV. It meets our needs and wants. My question is when the salesman asked what truck I had I indicated that I did not have a truck yet but was thinking about an F350 DRW Diesel. He said I didn't need that much truck to tow that 5th wheel. So I am asking for some help. Would I be under powered, over weight capacity, dangerous to tow this rig with the F 250 SRW or would it be best to go with the F350 DRW What other information do I need to look at in making this decision. Fortunately we are still about 6 - 8 months from making any purchases. He also mentioned having air bags installed on the F 250. What difference does that make and would it make enough difference in making my decision? Here are the specs.
Sanibel 3500
Dry Hitch Weight 2250
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 12,505
Cargo Carrying 2936
GVWR 15441
F 250 SRW Diesel 4x2 Super Cab
5th wheel towing capacity 16500
Payload capacity 3760 141.8 WB 3660 158 WB
GVWR 10000
GCWR 23500
3.55 axle ratio
F350 DRW Diesel 4x2 Super Cab
5th wheel towing capacity 22800
Payload capacity 6160 158 WB
GVWR 13000
GCWR 30000
3.73 axle ratio
What do you think?
Curt
Terry and Jo said
07:24 AM Jul 14, 2013
Curt,
With the Sanibel, both would likely be able to tow the trailer. With the truck's GCVW though, if you get anywhere close to the GVWR of the truck (10,000 lbs), you would be pushing the GCVW or be over on it. Now, with most trucks, we don't get close to the full GVWR of the truck. I like that because it gives me some "cushion" in the weight capabilities.
However, if you would ever decide the Sanibel was too small after a few months or years and wanted to trade up to something heavier, you would likely also have to trade up with the truck as well. There are a number of us that believe in the philosophy that one should prefer to have more truck than is needed than have more trailer than the truck can safely handle. (Handle meaning safety with both handling and braking with the trailer.)
Beyond that, the dually also gives you two advantages over the SRW 3/4 ton truck. One, the duals will give you a lot more stability, especially when turning and in crosswinds. Secondly, with a dually, if you have a flat or a blowout on one of the rear wheels, you've still got a tire that will let you get to a safe area for changing or replacing the tire.
I remember a few years ago that someone on one of the forums that I participate at stated that he had heard at an RV seminar that duallys should be avoided because one "had to deduct the extra weight of the extra tires and wheels from the trucks GVWR and GCVW." I would really like for that seminar instructor to explain why it is that the dually trucks actually have a higher weight rating than a similar SRW truck. I'm not sure about GM and Dodge, but Ford sells both a SRW and a DRW in the F350 range, and the DRW definitely has a higher weight capacity.
As for air bags, if the guy is suggesting air bags before you even choose the truck, perhaps he may know that an F250 with enough weight is going to hit any "overload springs" pretty quick and would require the addition of air bags to make the ride more comfortable. Now, having said that, I can't even really say if pickup trucks even still have overload springs. In either case, I'd suggest you at least check on the number of spring leafs that are on each size of truck.
Good luck with the research. As for me, I'd recommend the dually, even if it means buying extra tires on occasion.
Terry
lindy said
01:16 PM Jul 14, 2013
Remember that a salesman will say/do anything that he thinks will help him sell, even steering you toward the cheaper truck so that you'll have more money to spend on what he's selling. I've heard time after time salesman trying to sell units that could not possibly be towed with what the customer planned on towing the unit with. Like Terry pointed out the dulley will give you the added stability and safety that you'll really need with a unit the size you're thinking about. Sure the F-250 could pull it, BUT how safe would you be once the unit was FULLY loaded??? Always err on the side of caution and go with an oversized tow vehicle.
We were in the same situation as you, we started with a GM 2500HD pulling our Jayco Pinnacle.
Did it pull it, yes.
Were we within the GCWR ratings, barely.
The only thing that was over was the rear axle weight (most common problem with any SRW)
Also, remember when looking at the trucks carrying capacity you must subtract, people (driver & passenger), fuel and anything put in the truck.
Be careful looking at brochure published weights, this is with NO options like Dual Pane windows, only 1 A/C unit, no generator and such.
When you add options, you add to the Unloaded Vehicle Weight.
Our Pinnacle came in quite a bit heaver on the required "As Shipped Label" that is applied to all RVs today than the published weight due to our must have options, Dual Pane Windows, 2nd A/C, 12 Cu Ft 4 Door Refrigerator and such.
When you get a chance to look at a Sanibel in person, but sure to look at the required Yellow Label that shows the As Shipped Weight.
As a example, our published numbers.
Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs) 11,565
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs) 2,600
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs) 15,950
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs) 4,385
Our "As Shipped Label" shows a Shipping Weight of 12,981 lbs.
Also when we had our 5er weighted, our brochure published pin weight was 2,600 lbs. our actual pin weight is 3,400 lbs. with our stuff, propane tanks full, batteries and such.
We moved up to a 3500 DRW a year ago, what a difference, tows much better, rides much better, much more stable during those windy / stormy days.
We are very happy with our decision to move up to the 3500 DRW and have no regrets.
All you have to do is ride down any interstate and you will see people pulling very large / heavy 5th Wheels and Toy Haulers with up to 3 axles with 3/4 ton trucks, does it make it right just because they can?
Many people get away with overloaded trucks for short trip / weekend use, but for us as much as we move around, we wanted to be safe, stable and enjoy the move and not be tired, stressed and white knuckled when we arrived at our stop for the day.
Dog Folks said
10:12 PM Jul 14, 2013
How can you tell when the salesman if lying? His lips are moving. He is not there to be your savior, father or big brother. He is there to SELL you a trailer.
Get the Dually. The bigger the truck, the easier it tows a given weight, without strain and wearing out the truck. To a certain point, you can't have too much truck.
We tow a smaller travel trailer, 8100 pounds scale weight, with Dodge One Ton Dually. When asked if we have enough truck, I tell them, as a matter of fact, no, I am thinking of a semi tractor. Th look on their face is priceless.
Racerguy said
01:55 AM Jul 15, 2013
Get the dually.....hands down the only way to go.
rclvnv said
02:25 AM Jul 15, 2013
I think your decision needs to be based on how you will use the truck, as well as the obvious "you can never have too much truck". Yes you can. If the vehicle is to be your only vehicle, I'd seriously consider a 350 or 3500 series SRW 4x2 truck, as opposed to the DRW. At the very least, drive one (DRW) for a period. If you are always in rural areas (no parking lots or garages) or will use the truck only for towing and have another vehicle, then fine. IMHO, but the DRW can be problematic otherwise.
FWIW I have a 5th wheel of the size & weight that falls within the safety margins of my F-250 DSL Super Cab. If I wanted to get something bigger, I'd need to upgrade. I don't, but when thinking I might I looked at F-350 DRW. Did not want that as my only car. I spend a lot of time in Urban to semi-urban areas.
We tow an Open Range 345RLS, which is lighter than the unit you are looking at, with a 2010 F-250 DSL Super Cab. Have towed 20,000 miles effortlessly and without any problems. The truck has 50K on it, shocks & brakes still good. We added Timbren load assists on the rear. Did not want to be concerned with airbag system. Not sure the Timbrens were necessary as there was no "squat" when hooked up prior to install. No squat for sure, now. We maintain the truck carefully. That said, if I didn't already have the truck, I'd have gone with a F-350 SRW.
Richard
lowryc50 said
02:51 AM Jul 15, 2013
Thank you to all that have replied to my question. I didn't feel comfortable with what the salesman was saying but the wife wasn't too keen on getting a dually in the first place and that started some conversation between us. I also think it is best not to be close to the upper limits of the truck as mentioned. Rob Fla, Thank you for your personal experience story, it helps a lot. I relayed your story to the wife and she has a better understanding of why a dually would be the best choice. We do plan to move around once we transition to full time next year and I have read Howard's journal posts on weighting so I was feeling pretty good until we talked to the salesman. We also plan to have a second car so the wife says "you'll be driving the truck so get what you think you need". Conversation over. I posted my question because I knew that folks like you all who are actually do it would have the best idea on what works and is safest. I know you have all been where I am now. A huge burden has been lifted just by reading your responses. Seriously. As you know this process can get a little confusing. Curt
Rob_Fla said
11:09 AM Jul 15, 2013
My wife had the same concerns about driving a Dually Truck, she had been driving our 3/4 Ton SRW for years and was comfortable with it.
We had the same discussion about safety and the frequency of moving around so she said lets go ahead and lets get the DRW.
I could tell she was still nervous and concerned about driving it, but she started driving it on short trips to the store and such and now she is comfortable driving it just about anywhere.
There are still a few tight places I will go with it that she would not go, but overall she has done a great job getting around in it.
Terry and Jo said
02:28 PM Jul 15, 2013
Curt,
If you can, find someone that you know or check out a nearby RV park to see if you could find anyone with a dually that would allow you and Glenda to drive it.
One of the couples here on RV Dreams was in the Oklahoma City area some time back, and we met up with them for lunch after church on Sunday. When we went to church and then on to meet them, we took our F450 so that I could offer them the opportunity to drive our truck. From their comments on the forums, I had the impression that they had never driven a dually, especially one the size of an F450, so I thought it might put their minds at ease a bit if they had already driven one.
They now have a Ford F450 to tow their Mobile Suites, and I "think" they are happy with it. I've yet to get any comments from them as to Dale's thoughts on the truck.
Terry
lowryc50 said
04:05 PM Jul 15, 2013
Terry, I was able to drive a dually this spring when I started doing my research on trucks so I have a good idea about how they handle and ride. The wife was out of town the day I went and looked(test drove) the dually. Probably should have had her along and we wouldn't be having this conversation. The dealership that I went to is in a more rural area( IL farmers) and they typically have a couple of duallys on the lot. I'm sure they would have no problem with us coming there again(together) and doing another test drive. As Rob Fla said a person would need to drive it a few times to get comfortable. I know the wife likes driving our Ram 1500 so it shouldn't be to bad of a transition. Great suggestions and comments. Thanks again for all the help.
PS - would it be better to have the 8 ft bed over the 6'4" bed? Would that help in the ride?
Thanks Curt
Terry and Jo said
07:06 PM Jul 15, 2013
The longer bed is helpful in two ways. First is that the longer wheelbase would be a "bit" smoother ride. Secondly, if you go with a short bed, your fifth wheel hitch might likely need to be a sliding fifth wheel hitch so as to avoid hitting the pickup cab and the nose of the trailer. All in all, the comments I've seen with others that have had both, the non-sliders are preferred. In addition, the longer bed gives one just a wee bit more room to store things that one might not want to put in the basement of the coach.
Jo and I cheat. We've got our fifth wheel, plus the full-sized bed on the F450, and we have an F150 as a "scout" vehicle. The Scout has an A.R.E. topper on it to allow us to put more stuff in a pickup bed (without a hitch) and it be under cover.
Terry
Terry and Jo said
07:41 PM Jul 15, 2013
Curt,
OK. Bill has a Chevy and 4X4. I have a Ford and 4X2. Let the "wars" begin.
Just kidding guys. Either is good.
As I mentioned, Jo and I have a F150 as a "scout" vehicle. To explain that, it is a vehicle that she would drive so that she could follow and watch the trailer. Or, she can go ahead of me and find a good place to pull over, get fuel, or find a spot for overnight stays. With said "scout" vehicle and a chain, I would have 4X4 if it were needed. We're old "farm folks" and have learned to adapt.
Jo and I are currently "static" full-timers as we haven't retired yet to where we can travel. When we get to that point, I'm looking at the option of an extra fuel tank/tool box combination. In addition to having the extra fuel if needed, that would give me the option of putting any heavy items, such as tools, in the F450.
Manual slider hitch video:
Automatic slider hitch video:
For much more, including the sales pitches for specific brands, go to Google's YouTube category and type in "sliding fifth wheel hitch." You'll have a number of options there of videos to watch. There are those that would have nothing but the automatic so that they didn't have to constantly be getting in and out of the truck. Some of those owners would also say that they didn't like the way the automatic sliders operated on short turns.
Pull-rite is one name that I've read at least one owner say was good quality, if you go with a short bed and slider hitch.
I really don't know a lot about them, but I prefer a "set" hitch over a slider. I also don't know if there are issues with removing a slider hitch if one is wanting to haul something in bed of the truck. A "set" hitch can be removed by pulling four pins. Just be sure and get one that is rated for a higher weight than your trailer.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Monday 15th of July 2013 07:44:13 PM
Bill and Linda said
07:50 PM Jul 15, 2013
Curt:
I recommend getting a DRW F-350 truck.Safer, more stable. Did I say much more stable and safer.Also if you ever want to get a larger trailer your still good with the F-350.
You want an 8 foot bed with a 5er. Not a “short bed.” Yes there are ways around this short bed issue - none very good. But a 6-1/2’ bed is a good way to have the rear window pushed out in the truck and the front cap of the 5er damaged when you make a turn even with a slider hitch.Yes, people use them. But mostly they use them when they don’t have another option as you do purchasing a new truck.Also you lose storage space especially if you want an aux fuel tank which many do.
Please don’t take a salesman’s recommendations.Ask them how many miles they have towed a 5er. Many of us who provide comments have thousands of miles with multiple trucks towing 5ers upon which to base our opinions.
As to driving DRW trucks, it takes a bit but everyone adjusts just like they had to the first time they drove the F-250.It isn’t a “big deal” to adjust and just remember not to go through drive-thrus.Towing needs always come first, IMO.
Enjoy the process
Bill
lowryc50 said
09:44 PM Jul 15, 2013
Terry and Bill, thank you for the comment on hitches. I am still trying to understand the differences. The websites don't seem to explain that very well. Good to know it would most likey be better to go without a slider. I know there are probably differing opinions on that too. Do either of you know a site where the differences are explained in more detail? Bill, I have a feeling that many salesman do not have many miles towing. I also didn't think about being able to store some things in the back of the truck when towing instead of the 5th wheel or an auxiliary tank. I'm thinking I may just limit my travel days to under 250 miles so as to minimize the re fueling with the 5th wheel hitched. Still ahve time to figure those things out. I know I won't have a problem driving the dually. The getting comfort part is with the wife. However I don't think she will have to drive it that often. A second vehicle makes sense for getting around once at the destination. Good food for thought. Does anyone have an opinion on 4x2 or 4x4? Sorry to keep asking more questions. Thank you Curt
Bill and Linda said
10:14 PM Jul 15, 2013
Curt:
The 4x4 question is debated all the time.I personally would not purchase a new tow vehicle without 4x4.Even in commercial campgrounds it is sometimes needed and I have used it a lot.
Others say you don’t need 4x4 because “they don’t go off-road.”But when you go into a campground without 100% pavement, especially one with sand and gravel, you are off-road if you follow me.
4x4 or 2x4 is one of the classic, I like Fords / I like Chevy’s RV arguments, IMO.I wouldn’t be without it and I have a lot of years of experience.Others with years of experience don’t want it.The only reason not to get it, IMO, is initial cost.But, like a spare tire, you don’t need it till you do – then you really need it.
The only “pro” to a slider hitch is that the truck is 1-1/2 feet shorter – which actually to me is a major con because of the storage you lose among other issues.
Aux tanks are for more than the 250 miles of range.Many times they allow you to not have to go into a tight station hitched because you still have plenty of fuel; or the fuel is just more expensive than it should be and 100 miles later you can save $25 on a fill up.We do that all the time.If you don’t plan to travel much, probably doesn’t matter.If you plan to travel a lot, they are really nice.It depends on you.But the “bladder capacity” argument misses the point.
But all of this is what works for you.If we all thought exactly the same way there would be only one brand of truck, etc.Many decisions are based on money – some on facts – and some on “my Dad did it this way.”
Hope this perspective helps a bit.
Bill
lowryc50 said
03:18 AM Jul 16, 2013
Bill, great information on 4x4 and 4x2. I really had not thought about times when we might be on less than idea surfaces. It makes a lot of sense. Also thank you for your opinion on the hitch types. Certainly an 8 foot bed will give a more smooth ride and eliminate the need for a sliding hitch. I like the option of being able to take the hitch out for the occasional hauling need with the truck bed and the extra room for keeping stuff instead of in the rig. Terry, thank you for the videos and I plan on going to you tube and look up some additional video on both the slider type and set type of hitch. I have heard of Pull Rite and understand it is a very good product. I'm very glad I asked these questions and appreciate your replies. Step by step I am getting closer. Thank you again. Curt
Bill and Linda said
03:41 PM Jul 16, 2013
lowryc50 wrote:
Bill, great information on 4x4 and 4x2. I really had not thought about times when we might be on less than idea surfaces. It makes a lot of sense.
Yea, Curt.This is the one issue some might not think about when they start in the RVing game, especially with a 5er.Short story as an example should it be helpful with your decision:
On our last little trip this spring we were in a very nice commercial campground.As it is in the foothills of Virginia it has big wooded, very nice, but also “terraced” sites. Therefore it also has very minor but nonetheless sloping driveways.It had nice pea gravel in the driveways and campsites. However, it also had about two days of rain. To get into the site I had to pull up the rig with the front bumper close to a tree, than backup the trailer up an incline about 3 feet to reset the truck and complete the turn. (Doing that is known by some as “jacking the rig” and is how you sometimes make tight turns.)When I went to backup both rear tires (dual rear wheels) slipped in the wet gravel and started digging holes. (Truck has a limited slip differential, “Positraction,” which can’t help when all four rear tires can’t get any traction.)
It would have been a really big deal to tow the trailer and truck back even 3 feet.However, I flipped a switch, put the truck into 4x4, backed up three feet with no slipping, then completed the turn and into the site. I didn’t even have to get out of the truck. The campground parker said, “Wish everyone could do that.”
4x4 is another tool when you need it. It’s just an option and a choice. Nothing more.
Bill
lowryc50 said
04:57 PM Jul 16, 2013
Bill, that's an interesting illustration of the 4x4 compared to the 4x2. I have only towed a small TT as noted in my signature and haven't had an experience with a site that has much slope to it. My Ram 1500 is a 4x4 and it really helps in the winter around here in IL. I was concerned with the added weight of the 4 wheel transmission affecting my towing capacity but I guess that wouldn't really be as much of a concern with the dually. The 5th wheel I would like to purchase is well under the max towing. I like having options too. Thanks again for all your information and for putting it into real life situations. It gives me that visual I need to understand. Curt
TheHarveys said
07:56 PM Jul 16, 2013
Like Terry and Jo, We have a 2008 Ford F450. We tow a 2010 Carriage Carri-Lite with it. The trailer weighs in (loaded for a trip) at approximately 18,000 lbs. We just got back from a trip from Texas to Portage Indiana. The truck performed flawlessly. I simply set the cruise control on 65 and away we went.
I have put a 67 gallon Titan fuel tank in it and I have a Trailer-mate air hitch in the bed. I am in the process of having the Auto-Flex air suspension system put on the truck. That ought to make it "ride like a cadillac.", even when not pulling the trailer.
I have also put in a MaxBrake brake controller that does a wonderful job of actuating the disc brakes on the trailer.
Altogether, I have owned three different dooleys and have pulled six different trailers with them and I would absolutely recommend the duel-tired truck. The only time I pulled a trailer with any other vehicle was a travel trailer we pulled with a chevrolet suburban. That experience was mostly white knuckle and that is the primary reason we switched to a dooley truck. Sooo much more stability and capacity.
By the way, the F450 is my wife's daily driver when we are not traveling and she loves driving it.
Terry and Jo said
01:22 AM Jul 17, 2013
Since the F450 has come up, I'll mention one additional advantage to them. They have a "tighter" turning radius. When we bought ours and brought it home, I was able to circle the F450 in the cul-de-sac in the same space as I used to circle the Ford F250 with just the extended cab. The F450 is a full 3-feet longer than what the F250 was and still turned the same. Needless to say, I was impressed.
When we bought ours, we were lucky enough to find a good used one at our favorite dealership and bought it the day we found it. Being a year old truck, we were able to buy it a lot cheaper than trying to buy a new one.
Terry
lowryc50 said
02:18 AM Jul 17, 2013
Thanks Terry, I wouldn't have thought that was possible. Something to consider when we get ready to buy. I really think the F350 will be more than enough truck but never hurts to keep the options open. Jeff, I will look into the possible addition of an auxiliary tank. Definitely going with a dually. Curt
TheHarveys said
01:42 PM Jul 17, 2013
Curt,
Just to clarify, the Titan fuel tank is a replacement tank. It fits in the same location as the factory tank. So it is a swap out...not an auxiliary tank. However, it is 67 gallons and it does not consume any space in the bed of the truck.
We went to an RV dealership today to look at the Sanibel 3500. We have seen it a couple of times at the Chicago and Grand Rapids RV. It meets our needs and wants. My question is when the salesman asked what truck I had I indicated that I did not have a truck yet but was thinking about an F350 DRW Diesel. He said I didn't need that much truck to tow that 5th wheel. So I am asking for some help. Would I be under powered, over weight capacity, dangerous to tow this rig with the F 250 SRW or would it be best to go with the F350 DRW What other information do I need to look at in making this decision. Fortunately we are still about 6 - 8 months from making any purchases. He also mentioned having air bags installed on the F 250. What difference does that make and would it make enough difference in making my decision? Here are the specs.
Sanibel 3500
Curt,
With the Sanibel, both would likely be able to tow the trailer. With the truck's GCVW though, if you get anywhere close to the GVWR of the truck (10,000 lbs), you would be pushing the GCVW or be over on it. Now, with most trucks, we don't get close to the full GVWR of the truck. I like that because it gives me some "cushion" in the weight capabilities.
However, if you would ever decide the Sanibel was too small after a few months or years and wanted to trade up to something heavier, you would likely also have to trade up with the truck as well. There are a number of us that believe in the philosophy that one should prefer to have more truck than is needed than have more trailer than the truck can safely handle. (Handle meaning safety with both handling and braking with the trailer.)
Beyond that, the dually also gives you two advantages over the SRW 3/4 ton truck. One, the duals will give you a lot more stability, especially when turning and in crosswinds. Secondly, with a dually, if you have a flat or a blowout on one of the rear wheels, you've still got a tire that will let you get to a safe area for changing or replacing the tire.
I remember a few years ago that someone on one of the forums that I participate at stated that he had heard at an RV seminar that duallys should be avoided because one "had to deduct the extra weight of the extra tires and wheels from the trucks GVWR and GCVW." I would really like for that seminar instructor to explain why it is that the dually trucks actually have a higher weight rating than a similar SRW truck. I'm not sure about GM and Dodge, but Ford sells both a SRW and a DRW in the F350 range, and the DRW definitely has a higher weight capacity.
As for air bags, if the guy is suggesting air bags before you even choose the truck, perhaps he may know that an F250 with enough weight is going to hit any "overload springs" pretty quick and would require the addition of air bags to make the ride more comfortable. Now, having said that, I can't even really say if pickup trucks even still have overload springs. In either case, I'd suggest you at least check on the number of spring leafs that are on each size of truck.
Good luck with the research. As for me, I'd recommend the dually, even if it means buying extra tires on occasion.
Terry
Dry Hitch Weight 2,250
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 12,505
Cargo Carrying 2,936
GVWR 15,441
We were in the same situation as you, we started with a GM 2500HD pulling our Jayco Pinnacle.
Did it pull it, yes.
Were we within the GCWR ratings, barely.
The only thing that was over was the rear axle weight (most common problem with any SRW)
Also, remember when looking at the trucks carrying capacity you must subtract, people (driver & passenger), fuel and anything put in the truck.
Be careful looking at brochure published weights, this is with NO options like Dual Pane windows, only 1 A/C unit, no generator and such.
When you add options, you add to the Unloaded Vehicle Weight.
Our Pinnacle came in quite a bit heaver on the required "As Shipped Label" that is applied to all RVs today than the published weight due to our must have options, Dual Pane Windows, 2nd A/C, 12 Cu Ft 4 Door Refrigerator and such.
When you get a chance to look at a Sanibel in person, but sure to look at the required Yellow Label that shows the As Shipped Weight.
As a example, our published numbers.
Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs) 11,565
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs) 2,600
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs) 15,950
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs) 4,385
Our "As Shipped Label" shows a Shipping Weight of 12,981 lbs.
Also when we had our 5er weighted, our brochure published pin weight was 2,600 lbs. our actual pin weight is 3,400 lbs. with our stuff, propane tanks full, batteries and such.
We moved up to a 3500 DRW a year ago, what a difference, tows much better, rides much better, much more stable during those windy / stormy days.
We are very happy with our decision to move up to the 3500 DRW and have no regrets.
All you have to do is ride down any interstate and you will see people pulling very large / heavy 5th Wheels and Toy Haulers with up to 3 axles with 3/4 ton trucks, does it make it right just because they can?
Many people get away with overloaded trucks for short trip / weekend use, but for us as much as we move around, we wanted to be safe, stable and enjoy the move and not be tired, stressed and white knuckled when we arrived at our stop for the day.
Get the Dually. The bigger the truck, the easier it tows a given weight, without strain and wearing out the truck. To a certain point, you can't have too much truck.
We tow a smaller travel trailer, 8100 pounds scale weight, with Dodge One Ton Dually. When asked if we have enough truck, I tell them, as a matter of fact, no, I am thinking of a semi tractor. Th look on their face is priceless.
I think your decision needs to be based on how you will use the truck, as well as the obvious "you can never have too much truck". Yes you can. If the vehicle is to be your only vehicle, I'd seriously consider a 350 or 3500 series SRW 4x2 truck, as opposed to the DRW. At the very least, drive one (DRW) for a period. If you are always in rural areas (no parking lots or garages) or will use the truck only for towing and have another vehicle, then fine. IMHO, but the DRW can be problematic otherwise.
FWIW I have a 5th wheel of the size & weight that falls within the safety margins of my F-250 DSL Super Cab. If I wanted to get something bigger, I'd need to upgrade. I don't, but when thinking I might I looked at F-350 DRW. Did not want that as my only car. I spend a lot of time in Urban to semi-urban areas.
We tow an Open Range 345RLS, which is lighter than the unit you are looking at, with a 2010 F-250 DSL Super Cab. Have towed 20,000 miles effortlessly and without any problems. The truck has 50K on it, shocks & brakes still good. We added Timbren load assists on the rear. Did not want to be concerned with airbag system. Not sure the Timbrens were necessary as there was no "squat" when hooked up prior to install. No squat for sure, now. We maintain the truck carefully. That said, if I didn't already have the truck, I'd have gone with a F-350 SRW.
Richard
We had the same discussion about safety and the frequency of moving around so she said lets go ahead and lets get the DRW.
I could tell she was still nervous and concerned about driving it, but she started driving it on short trips to the store and such and now she is comfortable driving it just about anywhere.
There are still a few tight places I will go with it that she would not go, but overall she has done a great job getting around in it.
Curt,
If you can, find someone that you know or check out a nearby RV park to see if you could find anyone with a dually that would allow you and Glenda to drive it.
One of the couples here on RV Dreams was in the Oklahoma City area some time back, and we met up with them for lunch after church on Sunday. When we went to church and then on to meet them, we took our F450 so that I could offer them the opportunity to drive our truck. From their comments on the forums, I had the impression that they had never driven a dually, especially one the size of an F450, so I thought it might put their minds at ease a bit if they had already driven one.
They now have a Ford F450 to tow their Mobile Suites, and I "think" they are happy with it. I've yet to get any comments from them as to Dale's thoughts on the truck.
Terry
PS - would it be better to have the 8 ft bed over the 6'4" bed? Would that help in the ride?
Thanks Curt
The longer bed is helpful in two ways. First is that the longer wheelbase would be a "bit" smoother ride. Secondly, if you go with a short bed, your fifth wheel hitch might likely need to be a sliding fifth wheel hitch so as to avoid hitting the pickup cab and the nose of the trailer. All in all, the comments I've seen with others that have had both, the non-sliders are preferred. In addition, the longer bed gives one just a wee bit more room to store things that one might not want to put in the basement of the coach.
Jo and I cheat. We've got our fifth wheel, plus the full-sized bed on the F450, and we have an F150 as a "scout" vehicle. The Scout has an A.R.E. topper on it to allow us to put more stuff in a pickup bed (without a hitch) and it be under cover.
Terry
Curt,
OK. Bill has a Chevy and 4X4. I have a Ford and 4X2. Let the "wars" begin.
Just kidding guys. Either is good.
As I mentioned, Jo and I have a F150 as a "scout" vehicle. To explain that, it is a vehicle that she would drive so that she could follow and watch the trailer. Or, she can go ahead of me and find a good place to pull over, get fuel, or find a spot for overnight stays. With said "scout" vehicle and a chain, I would have 4X4 if it were needed. We're old "farm folks" and have learned to adapt.
Jo and I are currently "static" full-timers as we haven't retired yet to where we can travel. When we get to that point, I'm looking at the option of an extra fuel tank/tool box combination. In addition to having the extra fuel if needed, that would give me the option of putting any heavy items, such as tools, in the F450.
Manual slider hitch video:
Automatic slider hitch video:
For much more, including the sales pitches for specific brands, go to Google's YouTube category and type in "sliding fifth wheel hitch." You'll have a number of options there of videos to watch. There are those that would have nothing but the automatic so that they didn't have to constantly be getting in and out of the truck. Some of those owners would also say that they didn't like the way the automatic sliders operated on short turns.
Pull-rite is one name that I've read at least one owner say was good quality, if you go with a short bed and slider hitch.
I really don't know a lot about them, but I prefer a "set" hitch over a slider. I also don't know if there are issues with removing a slider hitch if one is wanting to haul something in bed of the truck. A "set" hitch can be removed by pulling four pins. Just be sure and get one that is rated for a higher weight than your trailer.
Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Monday 15th of July 2013 07:44:13 PM
Curt:
I recommend getting a DRW F-350 truck. Safer, more stable. Did I say much more stable and safer. Also if you ever want to get a larger trailer your still good with the F-350.
You want an 8 foot bed with a 5er. Not a “short bed.” Yes there are ways around this short bed issue - none very good. But a 6-1/2’ bed is a good way to have the rear window pushed out in the truck and the front cap of the 5er damaged when you make a turn even with a slider hitch. Yes, people use them. But mostly they use them when they don’t have another option as you do purchasing a new truck. Also you lose storage space especially if you want an aux fuel tank which many do.
Please don’t take a salesman’s recommendations. Ask them how many miles they have towed a 5er. Many of us who provide comments have thousands of miles with multiple trucks towing 5ers upon which to base our opinions.
As to driving DRW trucks, it takes a bit but everyone adjusts just like they had to the first time they drove the F-250. It isn’t a “big deal” to adjust and just remember not to go through drive-thrus. Towing needs always come first, IMO.
Enjoy the process
Bill
Curt:
The 4x4 question is debated all the time. I personally would not purchase a new tow vehicle without 4x4. Even in commercial campgrounds it is sometimes needed and I have used it a lot.
Others say you don’t need 4x4 because “they don’t go off-road.” But when you go into a campground without 100% pavement, especially one with sand and gravel, you are off-road if you follow me.
4x4 or 2x4 is one of the classic, I like Fords / I like Chevy’s RV arguments, IMO. I wouldn’t be without it and I have a lot of years of experience. Others with years of experience don’t want it. The only reason not to get it, IMO, is initial cost. But, like a spare tire, you don’t need it till you do – then you really need it.
The only “pro” to a slider hitch is that the truck is 1-1/2 feet shorter – which actually to me is a major con because of the storage you lose among other issues.
Aux tanks are for more than the 250 miles of range. Many times they allow you to not have to go into a tight station hitched because you still have plenty of fuel; or the fuel is just more expensive than it should be and 100 miles later you can save $25 on a fill up. We do that all the time. If you don’t plan to travel much, probably doesn’t matter. If you plan to travel a lot, they are really nice. It depends on you. But the “bladder capacity” argument misses the point.
But all of this is what works for you. If we all thought exactly the same way there would be only one brand of truck, etc. Many decisions are based on money – some on facts – and some on “my Dad did it this way.”
Hope this perspective helps a bit.
Bill
Yea, Curt. This is the one issue some might not think about when they start in the RVing game, especially with a 5er. Short story as an example should it be helpful with your decision:
On our last little trip this spring we were in a very nice commercial campground. As it is in the foothills of Virginia it has big wooded, very nice, but also “terraced” sites. Therefore it also has very minor but nonetheless sloping driveways. It had nice pea gravel in the driveways and campsites. However, it also had about two days of rain. To get into the site I had to pull up the rig with the front bumper close to a tree, than backup the trailer up an incline about 3 feet to reset the truck and complete the turn. (Doing that is known by some as “jacking the rig” and is how you sometimes make tight turns.) When I went to backup both rear tires (dual rear wheels) slipped in the wet gravel and started digging holes. (Truck has a limited slip differential, “Positraction,” which can’t help when all four rear tires can’t get any traction.)
It would have been a really big deal to tow the trailer and truck back even 3 feet. However, I flipped a switch, put the truck into 4x4, backed up three feet with no slipping, then completed the turn and into the site. I didn’t even have to get out of the truck. The campground parker said, “Wish everyone could do that.”
4x4 is another tool when you need it. It’s just an option and a choice. Nothing more.
Bill
I have put a 67 gallon Titan fuel tank in it and I have a Trailer-mate air hitch in the bed. I am in the process of having the Auto-Flex air suspension system put on the truck. That ought to make it "ride like a cadillac.", even when not pulling the trailer.
I have also put in a MaxBrake brake controller that does a wonderful job of actuating the disc brakes on the trailer.
Altogether, I have owned three different dooleys and have pulled six different trailers with them and I would absolutely recommend the duel-tired truck. The only time I pulled a trailer with any other vehicle was a travel trailer we pulled with a chevrolet suburban. That experience was mostly white knuckle and that is the primary reason we switched to a dooley truck. Sooo much more stability and capacity.
By the way, the F450 is my wife's daily driver when we are not traveling and she loves driving it.
Since the F450 has come up, I'll mention one additional advantage to them. They have a "tighter" turning radius. When we bought ours and brought it home, I was able to circle the F450 in the cul-de-sac in the same space as I used to circle the Ford F250 with just the extended cab. The F450 is a full 3-feet longer than what the F250 was and still turned the same. Needless to say, I was impressed.
When we bought ours, we were lucky enough to find a good used one at our favorite dealership and bought it the day we found it. Being a year old truck, we were able to buy it a lot cheaper than trying to buy a new one.
Terry
Just to clarify, the Titan fuel tank is a replacement tank. It fits in the same location as the factory tank. So it is a swap out...not an auxiliary tank. However, it is 67 gallons and it does not consume any space in the bed of the truck.