How exciting for those who will tow a heavier fifth wheels. Although I am certain opinions will vary widely, the towing capacity will allow those who are looking to tow 20-23K a much larger buffer. It will be interesting to see Ford's response ... but regardless, an exiting option.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/01/2013-ram-hd-the-king-of-towing-at-30000-lbs.html

I don't trust articles.  They are saying that the new Dodge will outdo the Ford F450, but they seem to be playing with numbers, enough so to make me have doubts.

Their GCVW is supposedly around 37,500 lbs compared to the Ford F450's 33,000 lbs.  However, in doing all that, they still only have a GVWR of 14,000, which is just enough to stay in the F350/3500 series of trucks (Class 3) instead of going into the higher classified trucks such as the F450 and mini Freightliners (Class 4).  Some are saying that "maybe it is so that it makes them easier and cheaper to register."  So, why build a truck with such high GCVW weights that won't "legally" carry what it claims?  I'll guarantee that a weigh man with some state police forces will hit them hard if they are overweight.

And never believe it when they talk about "towing weights."  I know of trucks that can be under on the towing weight, but over on the GCVW.  Plus, if you put the heavier weights (towing wise) onto the new Dodge, I'd be afraid that the weights on the axles and tires could be exceeded.  So, take that 30,000 lbs of towing weight with a grain of salt.

Terry

George,

Yes.  Because I don't trust articles.  Many of those articles are written by folks that may have never even seen the actual truck.  Some of them, at least the one's I've read, seem to be written from the manufacturer's press releases.  One of the articles I read with regard to the Dodge did go ahead and state that for the truck to be "configured right" for the 30,000 lb capacity, it had to have a regular cab and not an extended or crew cab.  How many RV'ers are going to want that?

As for all the trucks, I like to see improvements in their design and construction.  By doing that, each manufacturer is setting a "new bar" for the others to strive for in improving their designs and construction.  We all win when there is competition.

Besides, some "fanboys" of GM and Dodge have accused Ford of "fiddling with their numbers" as well.  I don't like to see "number-fiddling."  I want to see "real" changes.  In my own case, most of my experiences with GM and Dodge trucks have been at the 1/2 ton level, thus nowhere near heavy enough to tow what we tow today.  I want folks buying today, many that may have never driven a truck before, to be purchasing products based on "true" numbers.

I have Fords because I have had better experiences with them than I did with the Dodge and GM's before.  Also, when I was researching for our tow vehicle, neither GM nor Dodge could come close to matching the weight capacities of the F450.  One Dodge salesman really got ticked off when he couldn't "prove" his numbers to beat the F450, so he started bashing the Fords.  I told him that if he had to bash the competition to make a sale, rather than make the sale on the trucks capabilities, he wasn't a very good salesman.

Terry

Jims carrilite wrote:

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The next truck I buy will probably be a Sterling, Ford frame and Cummins engine...
Or a M2 Freightliner!

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Or, you could buy my Volvo....

More of a "real truck" and far more comfortable than any pickup, yet maneuvers better. :)

Jims carrilite wrote:

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I would Jack, But my better half took my credit card away!

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 Well, my Volvo is sure a heck of a lot cheaper than a new pickup or an FL M2 :)  And I'm a motivated seller these days, since the new truck is sitting here too..... :)

Terry and Jo wrote:

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 So, why build a truck with such high GCVW weights that won't "legally" carry what it claims?  I'll guarantee that a weigh man with some state police forces will hit them hard if they are overweight.

 

Terry

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 Could you please provide some links to people who have been ticketed in the USA of being overweight with a pick up. In the state of TN when I go get tags, I tell them what weight I want on them. I can put any weight I want, has nothing to do with what truck comes rated for. Same when I lived in NC, they asked me what I wanted. My neighbor down the street owns a hot shot company and pulls with '06 Duramax Chevy's, and I have saw him with trailers in the mid 20K's easily, he goes in weigh stations, no problems. Have heard this legally statement before, and would like to see what states they are ticketing in. Thanks in advance for the links.

travlingman wrote:

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Terry and Jo wrote:

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 So, why build a truck with such high GCVW weights that won't "legally" carry what it claims?  I'll guarantee that a weigh man with some state police forces will hit them hard if they are overweight.

 

Terry

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 Could you please provide some links to people who have been ticketed in the USA of being overweight with a pick up. In the state of TN when I go get tags, I tell them what weight I want on them. I can put any weight I want, has nothing to do with what truck comes rated for. Same when I lived in NC, they asked me what I wanted. My neighbor down the street owns a hot shot company and pulls with '06 Duramax Chevy's, and I have saw him with trailers in the mid 20K's easily, he goes in weigh stations, no problems. Have heard this legally statement before, and would like to see what states they are ticketing in. Thanks in advance for the links.

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Well, I don't have links that might be acceptable for you, but I used to drive 18-wheelers and bobtails as a professional driver.  While it may not be a common factor with everyone, there are weight men out there that take their jobs very seriously.  I knew of one in Nebraska a number of years ago that would check one's truck "7 ways from Sunday" to be able to write a ticket.  If he couldn't get the driver on "Gross Weight", he would weigh each axle.  If he then still couldn't get his opportunity to write a ticket that way, he'd calculate "Bridge Weight," which was a calculation of the weight based on the distance between the pairs of tandems on the truck and on the trailer.  If one was still good then, he would check "Bridge Weight" between the two axles in a pair on the truck and on the trailer.

While it is not a concern for many, it is a possibility that one could find a weight man willing to go to the trouble.  If you noted, I didn't say they all would do that.  I, for one, lucked out one time when I was a good 6,000 pounds overweight for the weight I was "licensed" for, but was still legal with respect to the truck.

As for Tennessee and North Carolina, I won't argue your point as I've never registered a vehicle there.  However, can you definitively state that NO OTHER STATE won't take the size of truck, and its weight capacities, into consideration when weighing them?  After all, we have 50 different states with 50 different legislatures, all trying their best to get all the revenue that they can, so who is to say what laws are being passed to attain that additional revenue?

Personally, and this is MY opinion only, I don't feel like taking the chances.  I want to use my money for my own pleasures, not the pleasures of a weight man or a state legislature

Terry

We,re in the process of ordering a truck for our first 5th wheel......previously had class C units. Anyway I noticed you suggested a "hauler bed".  What is a hauler bed. We were looking at a long box. Patrick/Linda

RN on the road wrote:

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We,re in the process of ordering a truck for our first 5th wheel......previously had class C units. Anyway I noticed you suggested a "hauler bed".  What is a hauler bed. We were looking at a long box. Patrick/Linda

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Here is a link to the thread that Lucky Mike is referring to.  It is a 4-door pickup truck that is equipped with the hauler bed instead of the normal pickup bed.  Look down toward the bottom of the thread at the black truck.  A hauler bed can be equpped in two ways...one way with no storage boxes, or like the one at this link, with compartments at the sides.

Hauler Bed

Terry

I'm not sure how being a pilot gives one enough knowledge to know that the 3/4 ton truck is "perfect."  However, for a 41' trailer, that is a very light trailer.  Our Mobile Suites at 38.5 feet has a GVWR of 18,500 lbs.  Back when we towed smaller (26 foot) units, the 3/4 ton truck was big enough, but the gas engine still seemed to work hard a lot.

Always take weight advice (including mine) with a grain of salt.  I remember a forum participant that said they attended a seminar put on by one of the "big names" in the RV world.  In that seminar, they were told that the use of a truck with duals was actually lowering its weight capacity because one "had to deduct the weight of the extra tires and wheels" from the overall gross weight of the truck.  To counter that claim, I showed the weight capacities of one brand of truck (found in that manufacturer's brochure) with SRW versus DRW.  The DRW truck's weight capacities were actually higher than those of the SRW.

I've always wondered if that seminar instructor is still presenting his seminars with the same information.

Terry

Additional specs on the 2013 RAM 3500, for those who may have an interest. I have not located the Chassis towing specs (i.e., for an addition of a hauler body), but they are ideally comparable (and I will validate specs prior to potentially future purchase).

2013 RAM 3500 Crew Cab Long Box 4x4 DRW (from page 10 of the RAM Towing Chart, see below link)

Engine: 6.7L Diesel Turbo

Transmission: ETK 6-SPD Auto HD

Axle Ratio: 4.10

GVWR: 14,000

Payload: 5,680

Base Weight: 8,321

FGAWR: 6,000

RGAWR: 9,750

GCWR: 37,500

Trailering Equip Weight: 29,010

To access the entire towing chart

Question for Jack (and/or others): What is the pin weight gestimate for a 40 foot fifth wheel that weighs 22-23K fully loaded.

WestWardHo wrote:

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I am totally confused as our next door host here in our campground has a 2011 2500 Diesel Silverado, not Dually to pull a 41 ft. Heartland Landmark Key Largo with a dry weight of 12,972 and a GVWR of 16,250 which I would have thought a 2500 was not enough truck but he, being a former pilot says its perfect.

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I see this a scenario a the time, people pulling 40 Ft + 5th Wheels and large Triple Axle Toy Haulers with 2500 SRW Trucks.

Many of them squat pretty bad due to the high Pin Weight of these large / heavy 5th Wheels.

We started out with a Chevy 2500HD but with a Pin Weight of 3,450 lbs and the fact we move around quite a bit, we decided to move up to a GMC 3500HD DRW.

What a difference between the SRW and DRW, it tows much more stable, both the truck and trailer ride much smoother.

WestWardHo wrote:

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I read all this truck stuff because we're always concerned about safety although I can tell you I don't understand most of it. Still trying to get the truck towing ratios in my head.

I am totally confused as our next door host here in our campground has a 2011 2500 Diesel Silverado, not Dually to pull a 41 ft. Heartland Landmark Key Largo with a dry weight of 12,972 and a GVWR of 16,250 which I would have thought a 2500 was not enough truck but he, being a former pilot says its perfect.

I'm obviously missing a lot here.

This Ram sounds interesting.

Sherry

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Sherry:

I’m a pilot and that doesn’t mean I know anything about truck capacities anymore than if I drive semis with a class “A” license, which I have, I have a clue as to piloting.

The Chevy 2500 or a Ford F-250would be overloaded with a 16,250 trailer.  The Chevy 2500 Diesel will pull the trainer just fine without any trouble.  But the truck is overloaded as to weight capability, both combined weight and hitch weight.  Just is.

Now, can you do this: Yes.  Is it safe: no.

Please keep in mind the truck brand has nothing to do with weight capabilities, it’s the specifications of the specific truck and that is determined by more than just the “Badge” on the side of 2500 / F-250 / 2500HD, etc.

As a comment to the question of the estimated pin weight of the trailer from Lyn – I would guess or “budget” 4,000lbs.  But here is the rub, you have to know the actual numbers.  That is where the mistake is made.  You can’t guess.  You need to know for sure, get the actual weights for a specific trailer and get the actual specifications / capabilities for a specific truck and trailer.  Not just a brand or a “Badge” (like F-250) on the side.  Each model year, and many within the model year, are equipped differently.  You just need to get and use the actual numbers.

Safe travels

No new trailer should be ordered without disc brakes. Period. They are far more reliable then drum brakes and require far less maintenance. And any trailer with three axles should probably be running 17.5" wheels with H rated tires on it. The running gear, and the trailer hitch are not places to skimp.

Also, IMO, no new RV should be ordered without an EMS system. That is more debatable than disc brakes....but there are far too many electrical issues with the power supply in RV parks to be without. At least IMO.

On edit: I originally said "J" rated tires here...I must not have had enough coffee...I meant H. The issue with J is that they do not typically have a high enough speed rating - it is usually 65mph, which is not high enough for an RV, even if you drive slow. I like the Goodyear H rated G114 tires. But there are others with a 70+ mph rating. 

Lyn wrote:

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Question for Jack (and/or others): What is the pin weight gestimate for a 40 foot fifth wheel that weighs 22-23K fully loaded.

 

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 It varies depending on what you have in the "front" of the coach. A larger upper deck (stretched bedroom/bath) will change it some, and lots of batteries will change it some.  They attempt to keep it in the 20-22% range. So you can figure it based on that. Figure a 40' NH typically outfitted will be in the 19.2-19.8K range empty. And then add your stuff. I'd say 2500 lbs. So you are in the 22K GV range. Perhaps less. 

Jack and Bill, Thank you both for your reply! Those pin weights, and even if we are a little heavier due to a stretched bedroom and lots of batteries, we should have a bit of cushion with the RGAWR of 9,750. When we get a little closer to placing our order for the 5th wheel and truck we will further double check all specs and take the RAM for a test drive.

Lyn wrote:

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Jack and Bill, Thank you both for your reply! Those pin weights, and even if we are a little heavier due to a stretched bedroom and lots of batteries, we should have a bit of cushion with the RGAWR of 9,750. When we get a little closer to placing our order for the 5th wheel and truck we will further double check all specs and take the RAM for a test drive.

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Lyn:

As your research continues may I suggest you “budget” not only the pin weight on the rear axle, but also tools and perhaps an aux tank full of fuel. A 60 gallon aux tank will add 500lbs+ when full.  I don’t recall the factory fuel capacity of the new Dodge.  But many feel, if you are actually traveling, that 36 or so gallons of diesel is a pretty small amount requiring you to stop for fuel too often.  You also have tools and other items that end up in the truck and therefore on the rear and front axle.  So keep that in mind – those additional weights add up really fast and you can exceed other ratings long before you hit that 37,500 GCVW or the 30,000 trailer weight.  That's why some op for HDTs.

Actually, by specification, the new Dodge looks pretty good and I personally use published specifications. Not the marketing hype – the real specifications that come with each specific truck and that vary considerably based on year and truck configuration.  The biggest question in my mind, about the new Dodge, is not the weight specifications.  It will be the new transmission and how well it is integrated with the engine and whatever version of an exhaust brake Dodge will provide.  Braking and control are very important and that is a job for the engine, transmission and an exhaust brake in addition to the truck and trailer brakes.  Not saying the new Dodge won’t live up to its published specs.  But be careful of version 1.0 of anything, IMO.  That is “first year.”  The first year is the “find the bugs on the customer’s nickel” year.  It is true for all manufactures including Ford or GM.

One other suggestion: Get hydraulic disc brakes on the trailer regardless of the truck.  They make a huge difference in safety.  Once you have stopped a big trailer with electric over hydraulic disc brakes you will never go back to the old school “magnet” brakes again.  Yes, they are that much better and safer – really.

Safe travels