Hi to everyone! I want to have a 22' travel trailer custom built. I want a quality 4-season unit that will hold up to fulltime use. I am not looking for the frills....don't need a marble floor, fancy woodwork or a bar that drops from the ceiling... just a quality built rig. I know I will have to pay a premium to have have one built from the ground up, but I think it will be worth the extra bucks. I have a few names to custom builders (Spcaecraft, Timeless, Recreation By Design), but if anyone has any additional names I would greatly appreciate it. What I would REALLY like is if I can find a builder that will build me the basic shell unit with the tanks, plumbing lines and electrical in place and then I just get a good local cabinet maker/carpenter to finish the interior. Any feedback you have is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Pam
a) Any guess as to what this might cost to build?
b) How long do you think something like this would take to build?
c) Do you see any apparent stuctural problems? (such as weight distribution issues?, plumbing?)
d) I want to tow this with a 3/4 ton truck (non-diesel). Is this realistic?
-- Edited by PamINaJAM on Friday 22nd of February 2013 05:36:03 AM
The Bear II said
06:12 PM Feb 21, 2013
Weight and balance is very important. You would need to make sure the custom built cabinets don't exceed or severly reduce your weight capacity for other stuff. Cabinets, tanks, appliances, batteries and other items would need to be properly distributed to balance out the weight forward to back and side to side.
I would use the cost to build a house in your area as a guide. Here in Southern California the cost to build a house is $275 per square foot. So you'd be looking at $40,000 to $45,000.
You would be better off finding a new or used manufacturer built trailer you like and adding upgrades. Many manufacturers will make slight changes in floorplans and cabinets, appliances plus other features for a cost. Thor and Fleetwood make changes to accomodate disabled RVers so I'm sure they would be willing to work with you to meet your specific needs (not to imply you are disabled).
GENECOP said
07:41 PM Feb 21, 2013
Your plan looks good but is not relevant to a Four Season RV, you have laid out an Apartment Floorplan that all utilities and services are housed in basement, attics, etc....A true four season RV needs to have all tanks and waterlines within the heated envelope. These items need to be incorporated in your plan, it's the only way to calculate your true weight distribution and available storage space. I also think the budget Bear gave you is on the low side. As far as splitting the structure from the finish I think here again you are asking for trouble, these builds need continuity, the right hand needs to know what the left hand is thinking. The structure (framing) needs to know 100% what the finish will be, Bottom line, if you have the $ anything can be done, throw enough $ at anything it will get done. I think renovating a good quality unit will get you a lot more bang for the buck......keep us posted
PIEERE said
07:57 PM Feb 21, 2013
By what I read; you are having someone build this. I would look for companies who custom build RVs. It may cost you more; than trying to locate one to your specs. I would look into Artic Fox or other 4 season builders and see if they would build you the basics you want, then you could have the other necessities and accessories done by someone else to your liking.
PamINaJAM said
09:27 PM Feb 21, 2013
Thanks for the early replies. You guys are great!
GENECOP: Yes, I did start with an "apartment like" floor plan as I believe that is where you have to start...and then you reverse engineer it to what does it take to make that happen. While I am certainly not a construction engineer I did allow for the basic things I know. For instance I allowed for a wall to bring up the shower hot/cold feeds, I put the refrigerator on a outside wall for venting, I located the toilet closest to where the black tank would drain, I grouped most of the water supplied objects in the same area, etc. In the 4 season travel trailers I've seen once you get above the floor line (over the tanks, plumbing, propane line and sealed underbelly) the remaining plumbing & wiring is rather simplistic by building standards. I'd like to split the structure assembly from the finish work so that I can get better quality work on the finish end. There are some really good cabinet makers out there, but they don't work at RV makers. Most of the cabinets made on a factory line are just pattern cut-outs assembled together. I saw your rig online... very impressive! Did you buy that off a lot or design it out yourself? Thanks for your comment.
PIERRE: I would love to find a builder like Northwood Arctic Fox to build me a shell trailer that I could finish out, but I don't think the name brand manufacturers would do it.... they just want to crank their models off an assembly line in 9 hours (I took a few factory tours) and get them on a sales lot...someone will buy it no matter what the quality is. Sure, they will add a window, move a light and do some basic things, but not what would be a complete redesign. Also, I don't think they could do it from a liability standpoint.... if I finish it off and gets into an accident where a mom, 2 kids and a poodle die in the crash.... aren't they going to sue the builder? Thanks Pierre for your comment.
There are a few custom trailer builders out there and I am going to be forwarding my floorplan along with my specifications sheet, but I wanted to run this by people who live it. I've been to a few of the RV shows and it would seem that some of the floor plans are just awful...I can't even imagine that those manufacturers researched it first with people who go rv'ing.
Pam
nightsky said
09:51 PM Feb 21, 2013
Pam, I like the idea so far. I've got a 1970 TT that will be getting a frame-up restoration, and I've been scribbling floor plan ideas for months trying to come up with the best layout for a 20' interior. One thing I noticed on your plan is the curb side... there will be a wheel well protruding into the interior space, so you will need to have something above/over it like a cabinet. Weight distribution is critical, looks like most of the weight is on the curb side in this plan.
I've no idea if/which RV builders might do the shell for you as I will be building mine myself. To see what some owner/builders are doing check out the Teardrops and Tiny Travel Trailers forum at www.tnttt.com. I've gotten a lot of inspiration from these folks especially since they are dealing with VERY small spaces in their builds. They may have a better idea of a builder to do a shell for you.
Hina said
11:04 PM Feb 21, 2013
You might consider a dinette instead of the table and rolling chairs; those chairs will need to be secured, and may ultimately get in the way when not in use. I use my dinette as an office, and store my printer (and other stuff) underneath. Having your printer overhead, it will need to be secured.
Also, the bed into a jack knife sofa; I have a jack knife sofa, and the "crease" in the middle is uncomfortable, and realistically, if you plan to live in it, you will probably wind up leaving it down as a bed most of the time, rather than all the making, unmaking, and putting up and down.
Renovating an old trailer might be the best bet.
Where I am parked now, they have a 20 foot Springdale I really like, for a small trailer without a slide, the floorplan is very roomy and useable. The rear dinette is very roomy, and can be a sofa, office, extra bed for a kid. It has a real bed. If I were to go smaller than my 25 foot, I'd go with this: http://curtistrailers.com/inventory/rvlisting/detail/4895/
Terry and Jo said
12:02 AM Feb 22, 2013
I'd have to agree with some of the others that your diagram shows all the weight to be on the rear and road-side of the trailer. It certainly looks like someone needs to redesign it so that some more weight is on the curb side of the trailer, plus more centered. As it is now, I would imagine that it might become hard to handle if one was in some strong headwinds or meeting semi-trucks on a two-lane road.
Balance in very important so that one side of the trailer is not carrying excessive weight and so that the trailer's weight is centered. Otherwise, the tongue weight will be excessively light or heavy. Designing a floorplan is so much more than just arranging furniture.
Oh, and one more little tip for you with respect to putting pictures in the forums. Your photo is just a little bit too big. When you can see a scroll bar at the bottom of the screen, allowing one to scroll side-to-side, it is an indicator that the photo is too large. It helps to either resize the photo or just provide a link to another site where the photo is "stored." When a photo is too large, it forces ALL the text on that thread to spread out to the width of the one post where the large photo is, thus forcing everyone to scroll back and forth just to read the text.
It took me a while to learn what some of my photos was doing to the forums.
Terry
nightsky said
01:14 AM Feb 22, 2013
Another thing I noticed about your plan is the entry door appears to be above where the wheels will be, it would have to be either forward or behind them.
Google space saving furniture, there are tons of ideas that you may be able to incorporate into your plan to get the most from the small space you have. For example, a Murphy bed above the sofa would open up a lot of floorspace during the day, and be easy to pull down into a fully made-up bed in the evening.
kb0zke said
03:42 AM Feb 22, 2013
Pam, I'd suggest that you go to one of the specialty manufacturers you mention and talk to them about what you want and need to accomplish your goals. They have the computer programs that can calculate weight and balance information as well as cost. I'm thinking that the estimate above probably needs to be doubled, but that's just my guess. Also, just what are you trying to gain by having a custom-made coach? About the only thing I see in your plan that wouldn't be in any travel trailer of that size is the washer/dryer, and I suspect that it would be a whole lot cheaper to find a 26-27 foot trailer (which is what your drawing is) and replace some of the wardrobe (which you don't have) with the washer/dryer.
Travel trailer lengths are generally stated as overall length, tongue to bumper, and the tongue is generally somewhere around four feet or so in length. Just for comparisons, go to airforums.com and click on classifieds, then on the modern trailers.
Hina said
04:14 AM Feb 22, 2013
Another thought; if you are looking for a "4 seasons" trailer, I assume you plan on being in cold weather? Then you will need a suitable closet to hang your heavy winter coat and sweaters.
rvingft said
05:02 AM Feb 22, 2013
New Horizons in Junction City Kansas are a custom builder. Jack Mayer on this forum is an Ambassador and can probably answer most of not all the questions you have about NH. Also - in Missouri is Space Craft, who often builds custom units for mobile offices such as hearing and blood mobiles. Both are well built units - not the cheapest, but well-built.
Also Travel Units - but I don't know if they build travel trailers or just fifth-wheels . www.travelunits.com
Recreation By Design - www.rbdrv.com - don't know about their quality
Renegade RV in northern Indiana builds custom trailers and tow trucks - like the NASCAR rigs - VERY VERY nice, not sure about a small travel trailer.
You can't go wrong with a NH or Space Craft trailer.
Once you have the specs on the trailer and how much it weighs, THEN you can decide on the truck you will need to pull it with. Have fun in the process :)
Edit by moderator: Activated links. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 22nd of February 2013 08:08:13 AM
nightsky said
06:38 PM Feb 22, 2013
Pam, I've got 2 issues with the caboose that factor into the floor plan: One is the desire to keep it as original as possible since it's probably the only one left in existence, and the second is the cupola which has a direct influence on how the interior can be configured.
It would be highly unusual for a TT to have the floor above the wheels,you'd have to have 4 or more stairs to enter and exit it. Normally the wheel wells are inside under the cabinets/dinette/sofa etc. Being above would the wheels give a terribly high profile when towing as well.
I'm with you on the dinette, I'd prefer just a sofa with a table that can be placed in front or that folds up/down from the wall or a cabinet or desk or something, ANYTHING other than a dinette! lol
I'm also with you on the color schemes... years ago it was mauve or country blue, now days it seems like all campers are "builder beige". Check this out for something very refreshing, she completely redid her RV in a really nice way. There are links to the 2 other parts with more pics on the right side of the page. http://www.roomzaar.com/rate-my-space/Other-Spaces/Nature-Inspired-RV-Renovation/detail.esi?oid=21149839
As for weight, the W/D may be one of the heaviest single objects, but the stove will add a bunch, I haven't researched a weight on a fridge yet but they're very heavy, water - both clean and waste - weighs a LOT, and it's super simple to add 1500 pounds or more in no time just with clothing, bedding, towels, toiletries, pots and pans, food, tv, computer, pens and pencils and paper, etc. Get out your bathroom scale and start adding up all the loose items that you think will end up in the camper. You may be surprised how much it all adds up to. Then think about where you're going to store it and try to spread it out side to side and end to end. I've been told the tongue weight should be 15% of the total. Having weight far forward or far to the rear in effect males it "heavier" which is why most trailers have the main weight concentrated near the axles on both sides. Having the heavy W/D at the very rear will really lighten up the front. I'm not sure if a battery bank on the tongue would be enough to offset it or not. Probably not. This is coming from someone that plans to haul a 475# motorcycle on the rear platform of my caboose, so it's something I've thought about a lot. 4 6volt deep cycle batteries in a box on the tongue will lighten the back of mine up, and the original layout also has the bathroom forward of the axles, but it will add to tongue weight. Lots of things to consider!
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 22nd of February 2013 09:15:48 PM
PamINaJAM said
12:02 AM Feb 23, 2013
Thank you to all you wonderful people that have commented. You’re great!
nightsky: I saw your blog. You have quite a project ahead of you. I’ll be interested to see how it all turns out. I will check out the forum you suggest. I would say start with a good graphic design program where you can grid out your space and create objects to scale.... then you can move them around as you like to see how it all lays out. Drawing them out could be a challenge as it might be hard to account for the thickness of walls and adequate space between objects. Once you have what you want the real work is then to see if you can make it all happen structurally. Keep in mind they build SWAT mobile trailers and Police command centers in so many configurations that I would find it hard to believe that any floor plan could not be made possible. Good luck. As for my entry near the wheels... you might be right...I’m gonna have to run those details by the builder. I am under the impression that my 22x8 unobstructed floor would start above the wheel well line... while I know that tanks and plumbing might sit below it in the middle I would like to start with flatland.
Hina: I had a dinette in a previous trailer and I hated it.... tight spot....hard to get in and out...you have to do the scoot over....it just seems uncomfortable. (how many people really install dinettes in their house?) I agree putting things like the printer overhead might be questionable, but today an all-in-one inkjet printer is kinda light....but I intend to secure it. I certainly will need some cold weather clothing, but my floor plan already has more than the storage space I had in previous trailers so I think I’m good there. and... I’m a "less-stuff" gal!
As for the "jack-knife sofa".... you could not be more correct. They are terrible, uncomfortable and in my last trailer I unfolded it once and it became the "dog lounge." I have yet to come across a jack-knife sofa, futon, day-bed, fold out couch or even a electric bed that would be suitable for full-time living. However, I believe that I have a great solution. I want to sleep on a comfortable mattress every night, but a bed and a mattress also would mean the need for more space. So rather than find a sofa that converts into a bed..... I’m going to do it in reverse... I’m going to start with a comfortable mattress that can be configured to a sofa. Now I don’t quite have all the details yet, but there are companies out there that will "cut a mattress" to size....so that in itself provides a few options.
As for the Springdale.... well, I’m trying to avoid the typical trailer this time around. I want a shower that is just like mine at home. I want to be able to avoid tight walking spaces. I want to put the tv where I want. I don’t want to see that brown crappy paneling they seem to use in every RV. Are there no other colors on earth? Sure I could probably save money driving one off a lot, but sometimes you just want things where you want them... how many of us would buy a house we couldn’t furnish to our liking?...so why do we accept this in an RV? I think the long-term winners in RV manufacturing are those than can give the customer more standard interior design options. Thanks for your comment Hina.
An idea...
Terry and Jo: I think I got it on the photo. Thanks for your guidance. I agree that the weigh distribution might be off in my floor plan, but I’m thinking there has to be answer than that might balance it out like adding heavy batteries underside. The only real heavy object is the washer/dryer.
kb0zke: I’m gonna run my plan by a few builders next month. What I was hoping (and I got) was to get some great ideas from those that live in rv’s and it would give me some more brain-power when I sit down with those that will want to squeeze every nickel out of me. :)
rvingft: I kinda got the impression that New Horizons definition of "customization" was the choice of color on the curtains and things like that. I don’t know if they would do a structural change? I will find out though as I would love to have the shell produced by a company that really knows how to build the frame and foundation.
Terry and Jo said
12:50 AM Feb 23, 2013
Pam,
Your idea of a mattress is doable, but it might not be really comfortable. We used to have a similar configuration that was three sections of foam, covered in fabric, and capable of being laid out in the bed of a pickup.
Do more checking with such places such as New Horizons. If I remember right, someone once mentioned that they even built a travel trailer. Plus, they are MUCH more custom built than just colors and fabrics.
Good luck.
Terry
Hina said
01:18 AM Feb 23, 2013
The thing about the Springdale dinette is the table is loose, you can move it around. It is also adjustable to a low coffee table. Been in that model, and for a small trailer, its very liveable. Not saying buy one, just floor plan ideas.
kb0zke said
02:43 AM Feb 23, 2013
On the other hand, if the floor were at the top of the wheel wells, there could be a shallow basement below. Yes, the trailer would be a bit taller, but I doubt that it would get anywhere close to the height of a 5'er. It might be possible to put the water tanks between the wheel wells, in the basement, and heating ducts could run there, too.
PamINaJAM said
03:04 AM Feb 24, 2013
Terry and Jo: I will check out New Horizons. The mattress/sofa idea is going to take some thought.
nightsky: I was intent on the floor being above the wheels and using that small space possibly as the place for insulated tanks, plumbing, cabling, batteries, even storage (not unlike a 5th wheel or motorhome basement) It would be great to have that accessability.
OUTSTANDING!!! I really liked that link you posted. I am re-posting it here (both parts) so that others may see. Now that is my thinking!!! I’m not crazy about the green, but look how great the interior is when you eliminate the sight of all that cruddy brown paneling. If you didn’t already know it you would think you were in some ones apartment. The remodeling looks so much more pleasing to the eye....it looks comfortable and less stressful. WHY?? Can somebody tell me why RV manufacturers just don’t get this concept? Is there some abundance of cheap brown paneling out there? Did they only invent 1 pattern of RV furniture fabric in the last 50 years? Is there some underground mine of beige wallpaper they are all tapping? I walked into 20 trailers at Camping World....and they all looked the same inside no matter who made them.
Heh, if I was choosing the best place to relax, it wouldn't be in that color of green environment.
When we lived in one stix n brix home, a new one was built across the street from us. One day, we were in the driveway visiting with a neighbor when I looked over and notice a purplish glow on the house next to the one being built. When I mentioned the purple color, the neighbor took us over to see the unfinished new home. One bedroom was painted that same green color and another bedroom was painted purple. Just the light coming through the windows was enough to "transmit" that color outside to the house next door. I sure was glad when they finally got around to putting curtains on the windows.
As for the wood, I like the look of good wood. If a cabinet were just "paneling," I might not like it, but most of the better RV's are using real wood instead of paneling.
But, I guess we all have our different preferences.
Terry
Lucky Mike said
05:52 AM Feb 24, 2013
Most coach interiors as designed to Sell to a large audience of buyers.......so they try to keep it generic but tasteful. There are companies out here that will build anything you want , any way you want....but custom designed units mean Stop the Assembly line and insert special orders not normal to everyday production, and bring alot of money...it cost almost 70% more to halt production and do this type of insert
I worked in a plant environment where this happened that meant
1. instead of 3 or 4 units going out at the end of the day one line came to a halt
2. Standard engineering plans and the special order had to be reviewed and Quality control inspectors had to be informed and be on each station to go through it
the cost factor increases.....you have to pull the best in each department off there jobs and put them on this project. that slows the other lines
3. the panels and materials you see in a coach are bought in bulk to meet production needs for a full year without waste
SnowGypsy said
07:41 AM Feb 24, 2013
I remembered that we had met a couple that decided to make a cargo trailer into a camper. He made the cabinets and everything and it was nice. I did some research after that online and found at least a couple of cargo trailer manufacturers that were customizing their trailers into RV style. If you google "customized cargo trailers" it will bring up a list plus photos to get an idea of what is out there. This might be a good option because you could get only what you want done there, a shell or something completed by the photos I saw. You might consider the V-nose since it gives a tiny bit more length without being longer on the road. Also, I have seen the exteriors look like very nice travel trailers with tasteful graphics.
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Sunday 24th of February 2013 07:59:57 AM
WestWardHo said
05:05 PM Feb 24, 2013
Nightsky and PanINaJam,
Love, love, love the makeover! The green reminds me of early spring! It's so cheerful and happy. I'm with you on the boring, dull interiors.
Hi to everyone! I want to have a 22' travel trailer custom built. I want a quality 4-season unit that will hold up to fulltime use. I am not looking for the frills....don't need a marble floor, fancy woodwork or a bar that drops from the ceiling... just a quality built rig. I know I will have to pay a premium to have have one built from the ground up, but I think it will be worth the extra bucks. I have a few names to custom builders (Spcaecraft, Timeless, Recreation By Design), but if anyone has any additional names I would greatly appreciate it. What I would REALLY like is if I can find a builder that will build me the basic shell unit with the tanks, plumbing lines and electrical in place and then I just get a good local cabinet maker/carpenter to finish the interior. Any feedback you have is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Pam
a) Any guess as to what this might cost to build?
b) How long do you think something like this would take to build?
c) Do you see any apparent stuctural problems? (such as weight distribution issues?, plumbing?)
d) I want to tow this with a 3/4 ton truck (non-diesel). Is this realistic?
-- Edited by PamINaJAM on Friday 22nd of February 2013 05:36:03 AM
I would use the cost to build a house in your area as a guide. Here in Southern California the cost to build a house is $275 per square foot. So you'd be looking at $40,000 to $45,000.
You would be better off finding a new or used manufacturer built trailer you like and adding upgrades. Many manufacturers will make slight changes in floorplans and cabinets, appliances plus other features for a cost. Thor and Fleetwood make changes to accomodate disabled RVers so I'm sure they would be willing to work with you to meet your specific needs (not to imply you are disabled).
Thanks for the early replies. You guys are great!
GENECOP: Yes, I did start with an "apartment like" floor plan as I believe that is where you have to start...and then you reverse engineer it to what does it take to make that happen. While I am certainly not a construction engineer I did allow for the basic things I know. For instance I allowed for a wall to bring up the shower hot/cold feeds, I put the refrigerator on a outside wall for venting, I located the toilet closest to where the black tank would drain, I grouped most of the water supplied objects in the same area, etc. In the 4 season travel trailers I've seen once you get above the floor line (over the tanks, plumbing, propane line and sealed underbelly) the remaining plumbing & wiring is rather simplistic by building standards. I'd like to split the structure assembly from the finish work so that I can get better quality work on the finish end. There are some really good cabinet makers out there, but they don't work at RV makers. Most of the cabinets made on a factory line are just pattern cut-outs assembled together. I saw your rig online... very impressive! Did you buy that off a lot or design it out yourself? Thanks for your comment.
PIERRE: I would love to find a builder like Northwood Arctic Fox to build me a shell trailer that I could finish out, but I don't think the name brand manufacturers would do it.... they just want to crank their models off an assembly line in 9 hours (I took a few factory tours) and get them on a sales lot...someone will buy it no matter what the quality is. Sure, they will add a window, move a light and do some basic things, but not what would be a complete redesign. Also, I don't think they could do it from a liability standpoint.... if I finish it off and gets into an accident where a mom, 2 kids and a poodle die in the crash.... aren't they going to sue the builder? Thanks Pierre for your comment.
There are a few custom trailer builders out there and I am going to be forwarding my floorplan along with my specifications sheet, but I wanted to run this by people who live it. I've been to a few of the RV shows and it would seem that some of the floor plans are just awful...I can't even imagine that those manufacturers researched it first with people who go rv'ing.
Pam
I've no idea if/which RV builders might do the shell for you as I will be building mine myself. To see what some owner/builders are doing check out the Teardrops and Tiny Travel Trailers forum at www.tnttt.com. I've gotten a lot of inspiration from these folks especially since they are dealing with VERY small spaces in their builds. They may have a better idea of a builder to do a shell for you.
You might consider a dinette instead of the table and rolling chairs; those chairs will need to be secured, and may ultimately get in the way when not in use. I use my dinette as an office, and store my printer (and other stuff) underneath. Having your printer overhead, it will need to be secured.
Also, the bed into a jack knife sofa; I have a jack knife sofa, and the "crease" in the middle is uncomfortable, and realistically, if you plan to live in it, you will probably wind up leaving it down as a bed most of the time, rather than all the making, unmaking, and putting up and down.
Renovating an old trailer might be the best bet.
Where I am parked now, they have a 20 foot Springdale I really like, for a small trailer without a slide, the floorplan is very roomy and useable. The rear dinette is very roomy, and can be a sofa, office, extra bed for a kid. It has a real bed. If I were to go smaller than my 25 foot, I'd go with this: http://curtistrailers.com/inventory/rvlisting/detail/4895/
I'd have to agree with some of the others that your diagram shows all the weight to be on the rear and road-side of the trailer. It certainly looks like someone needs to redesign it so that some more weight is on the curb side of the trailer, plus more centered. As it is now, I would imagine that it might become hard to handle if one was in some strong headwinds or meeting semi-trucks on a two-lane road.
Balance in very important so that one side of the trailer is not carrying excessive weight and so that the trailer's weight is centered. Otherwise, the tongue weight will be excessively light or heavy. Designing a floorplan is so much more than just arranging furniture.
Oh, and one more little tip for you with respect to putting pictures in the forums. Your photo is just a little bit too big. When you can see a scroll bar at the bottom of the screen, allowing one to scroll side-to-side, it is an indicator that the photo is too large. It helps to either resize the photo or just provide a link to another site where the photo is "stored." When a photo is too large, it forces ALL the text on that thread to spread out to the width of the one post where the large photo is, thus forcing everyone to scroll back and forth just to read the text.
It took me a while to learn what some of my photos was doing to the forums.
Terry
Google space saving furniture, there are tons of ideas that you may be able to incorporate into your plan to get the most from the small space you have. For example, a Murphy bed above the sofa would open up a lot of floorspace during the day, and be easy to pull down into a fully made-up bed in the evening.
Travel trailer lengths are generally stated as overall length, tongue to bumper, and the tongue is generally somewhere around four feet or so in length. Just for comparisons, go to airforums.com and click on classifieds, then on the modern trailers.
New Horizons in Junction City Kansas are a custom builder. Jack Mayer on this forum is an Ambassador and can probably answer most of not all the questions you have about NH. Also - in Missouri is Space Craft, who often builds custom units for mobile offices such as hearing and blood mobiles. Both are well built units - not the cheapest, but well-built.
Also Travel Units - but I don't know if they build travel trailers or just fifth-wheels . www.travelunits.com
Recreation By Design - www.rbdrv.com - don't know about their quality
Renegade RV in northern Indiana builds custom trailers and tow trucks - like the NASCAR rigs - VERY VERY nice, not sure about a small travel trailer.
You can't go wrong with a NH or Space Craft trailer.
Once you have the specs on the trailer and how much it weighs, THEN you can decide on the truck you will need to pull it with.
Have fun in the process :)
Edit by moderator: Activated links. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 22nd of February 2013 08:08:13 AM
Pam, I've got 2 issues with the caboose that factor into the floor plan: One is the desire to keep it as original as possible since it's probably the only one left in existence, and the second is the cupola which has a direct influence on how the interior can be configured.
It would be highly unusual for a TT to have the floor above the wheels,you'd have to have 4 or more stairs to enter and exit it. Normally the wheel wells are inside under the cabinets/dinette/sofa etc. Being above would the wheels give a terribly high profile when towing as well.
I'm with you on the dinette, I'd prefer just a sofa with a table that can be placed in front or that folds up/down from the wall or a cabinet or desk or something, ANYTHING other than a dinette! lol
I'm also with you on the color schemes... years ago it was mauve or country blue, now days it seems like all campers are "builder beige". Check this out for something very refreshing, she completely redid her RV in a really nice way. There are links to the 2 other parts with more pics on the right side of the page.
http://www.roomzaar.com/rate-my-space/Other-Spaces/Nature-Inspired-RV-Renovation/detail.esi?oid=21149839
As for weight, the W/D may be one of the heaviest single objects, but the stove will add a bunch, I haven't researched a weight on a fridge yet but they're very heavy, water - both clean and waste - weighs a LOT, and it's super simple to add 1500 pounds or more in no time just with clothing, bedding, towels, toiletries, pots and pans, food, tv, computer, pens and pencils and paper, etc. Get out your bathroom scale and start adding up all the loose items that you think will end up in the camper. You may be surprised how much it all adds up to. Then think about where you're going to store it and try to spread it out side to side and end to end. I've been told the tongue weight should be 15% of the total. Having weight far forward or far to the rear in effect males it "heavier" which is why most trailers have the main weight concentrated near the axles on both sides. Having the heavy W/D at the very rear will really lighten up the front. I'm not sure if a battery bank on the tongue would be enough to offset it or not. Probably not. This is coming from someone that plans to haul a 475# motorcycle on the rear platform of my caboose, so it's something I've thought about a lot. 4 6volt deep cycle batteries in a box on the tongue will lighten the back of mine up, and the original layout also has the bathroom forward of the axles, but it will add to tongue weight. Lots of things to consider!
Edit by moderator: Activated link. Terry
-- Edited by Terry and Jo on Friday 22nd of February 2013 09:15:48 PM
Thank you to all you wonderful people that have commented. You’re great!
nightsky: I saw your blog. You have quite a project ahead of you. I’ll be interested to see how it all turns out. I will check out the forum you suggest. I would say start with a good graphic design program where you can grid out your space and create objects to scale.... then you can move them around as you like to see how it all lays out. Drawing them out could be a challenge as it might be hard to account for the thickness of walls and adequate space between objects. Once you have what you want the real work is then to see if you can make it all happen structurally. Keep in mind they build SWAT mobile trailers and Police command centers in so many configurations that I would find it hard to believe that any floor plan could not be made possible. Good luck. As for my entry near the wheels... you might be right...I’m gonna have to run those details by the builder. I am under the impression that my 22x8 unobstructed floor would start above the wheel well line... while I know that tanks and plumbing might sit below it in the middle I would like to start with flatland.
Hina: I had a dinette in a previous trailer and I hated it.... tight spot....hard to get in and out...you have to do the scoot over....it just seems uncomfortable. (how many people really install dinettes in their house?) I agree putting things like the printer overhead might be questionable, but today an all-in-one inkjet printer is kinda light....but I intend to secure it. I certainly will need some cold weather clothing, but my floor plan already has more than the storage space I had in previous trailers so I think I’m good there. and... I’m a "less-stuff" gal!
As for the "jack-knife sofa".... you could not be more correct. They are terrible, uncomfortable and in my last trailer I unfolded it once and it became the "dog lounge." I have yet to come across a jack-knife sofa, futon, day-bed, fold out couch or even a electric bed that would be suitable for full-time living. However, I believe that I have a great solution. I want to sleep on a comfortable mattress every night, but a bed and a mattress also would mean the need for more space. So rather than find a sofa that converts into a bed..... I’m going to do it in reverse... I’m going to start with a comfortable mattress that can be configured to a sofa. Now I don’t quite have all the details yet, but there are companies out there that will "cut a mattress" to size....so that in itself provides a few options.
As for the Springdale.... well, I’m trying to avoid the typical trailer this time around. I want a shower that is just like mine at home. I want to be able to avoid tight walking spaces. I want to put the tv where I want. I don’t want to see that brown crappy paneling they seem to use in every RV. Are there no other colors on earth? Sure I could probably save money driving one off a lot, but sometimes you just want things where you want them... how many of us would buy a house we couldn’t furnish to our liking?...so why do we accept this in an RV? I think the long-term winners in RV manufacturing are those than can give the customer more standard interior design options. Thanks for your comment Hina.
An idea...
Terry and Jo: I think I got it on the photo. Thanks for your guidance. I agree that the weigh distribution might be off in my floor plan, but I’m thinking there has to be answer than that might balance it out like adding heavy batteries underside. The only real heavy object is the washer/dryer.
kb0zke: I’m gonna run my plan by a few builders next month. What I was hoping (and I got) was to get some great ideas from those that live in rv’s and it would give me some more brain-power when I sit down with those that will want to squeeze every nickel out of me. :)
rvingft: I kinda got the impression that New Horizons definition of "customization" was the choice of color on the curtains and things like that. I don’t know if they would do a structural change? I will find out though as I would love to have the shell produced by a company that really knows how to build the frame and foundation.
Pam,
Your idea of a mattress is doable, but it might not be really comfortable. We used to have a similar configuration that was three sections of foam, covered in fabric, and capable of being laid out in the bed of a pickup.
Do more checking with such places such as New Horizons. If I remember right, someone once mentioned that they even built a travel trailer. Plus, they are MUCH more custom built than just colors and fabrics.
Good luck.
Terry
Terry and Jo: I will check out New Horizons. The mattress/sofa idea is going to take some thought.
nightsky: I was intent on the floor being above the wheels and using that small space possibly as the place for insulated tanks, plumbing, cabling, batteries, even storage (not unlike a 5th wheel or motorhome basement) It would be great to have that accessability.
OUTSTANDING!!! I really liked that link you posted. I am re-posting it here (both parts) so that others may see. Now that is my thinking!!! I’m not crazy about the green, but look how great the interior is when you eliminate the sight of all that cruddy brown paneling. If you didn’t already know it you would think you were in some ones apartment. The remodeling looks so much more pleasing to the eye....it looks comfortable and less stressful. WHY?? Can somebody tell me why RV manufacturers just don’t get this concept? Is there some abundance of cheap brown paneling out there? Did they only invent 1 pattern of RV furniture fabric in the last 50 years? Is there some underground mine of beige wallpaper they are all tapping? I walked into 20 trailers at Camping World....and they all looked the same inside no matter who made them.
http://www.roomzaar.com/rate-my-space/Other-Spaces/Nature-Inspired-RV-Renovation/detail.esi?oid=21149839
http://www.roomzaar.com/rate-my-space/Other-Spaces/Nature-Inspired-RV-Renovation-Part-2/detail.esi?oid=21152841
Heh, if I was choosing the best place to relax, it wouldn't be in that color of green environment.
When we lived in one stix n brix home, a new one was built across the street from us. One day, we were in the driveway visiting with a neighbor when I looked over and notice a purplish glow on the house next to the one being built. When I mentioned the purple color, the neighbor took us over to see the unfinished new home. One bedroom was painted that same green color and another bedroom was painted purple. Just the light coming through the windows was enough to "transmit" that color outside to the house next door. I sure was glad when they finally got around to putting curtains on the windows.
As for the wood, I like the look of good wood. If a cabinet were just "paneling," I might not like it, but most of the better RV's are using real wood instead of paneling.
But, I guess we all have our different preferences.
Terry
I worked in a plant environment where this happened that meant
1. instead of 3 or 4 units going out at the end of the day one line came to a halt
2. Standard engineering plans and the special order had to be reviewed and Quality control inspectors had to be informed and be on each station to go through it
the cost factor increases.....you have to pull the best in each department off there jobs and put them on this project. that slows the other lines
3. the panels and materials you see in a coach are bought in bulk to meet production needs for a full year without waste
I remembered that we had met a couple that decided to make a cargo trailer into a camper. He made the cabinets and everything and it was nice. I did some research after that online and found at least a couple of cargo trailer manufacturers that were customizing their trailers into RV style. If you google "customized cargo trailers" it will bring up a list plus photos to get an idea of what is out there. This might be a good option because you could get only what you want done there, a shell or something completed by the photos I saw. You might consider the V-nose since it gives a tiny bit more length without being longer on the road. Also, I have seen the exteriors look like very nice travel trailers with tasteful graphics.
-- Edited by SnowGypsy on Sunday 24th of February 2013 07:59:57 AM
Love, love, love the makeover! The green reminds me of early spring! It's so cheerful and happy. I'm with you on the boring, dull interiors.
Sherry